Obama is giving a speech asking for the power to condense government agencies.

[sledge]

I do not trust Obama's motives.  His record of "I never saw a big intrusive government program that I didn't like" makes me suspicious of his motives.  Please vote in this poll so that I can be reassured of his good intentions.

[crudos]

There is no pleasing some folks. Voted for the first option.

Sledge, so you don't trust Obama, which is fine. But what was the last President you did trust?

[Reaver]

There is no pleasing some folks. Voted for the first option.

Sledge, so you don't trust Obama, which is fine. But what was the last President you did trust?

Well, Andrew Jackson was ok..... and of course George Washington.

[crudos]

There is no pleasing some folks. Voted for the first option.

Sledge, so you don't trust Obama, which is fine. But what was the last President you did trust?

Well, Andrew Jackson was ok..... and of course George Washington.

Two words, Cherry Tree 

[Outonowhere]

There is a massive gathering the power to one seat which is BAD no matter who is in it...  I have little hope in any farce of an election doing anything more than appeasing the masses... and that's if we even make it to an election.

[Outonowhere]

And if he was trying to downsize the .gov he would be slashing costs not condensing it all and raising it to a level

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/sns-rt-us-usa-obama-reformtre80c0sa-20120113,0,823142.story

A White House official said on Friday the goal of the consolidation was to save $3 billion over 10 years.

 [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at

3 Billion over 10 years and we are sitting at 15+ TRILLION AT PRESENT...

you got 20 leeches in 2 buckets, so you combine them in one bucket and loose a couple.  I still wouldn't wanna stick my hand in there lol

[Outonowhere]

Not to mention, how many positions/agencies has he created so far compared to what he wants to do.  And don't forget his track record of doing or meaning what he is saying lol.

[mountainredneck2051]

There is no pleasing some folks. Voted for the first option.

Sledge, so you don't trust Obama, which is fine. But what was the last President you did trust?

were not supposed to trust them, we are supposed to watch them like a hawk to keep them straight

[crudos]

There is no pleasing some folks. Voted for the first option.

Sledge, so you don't trust Obama, which is fine. But what was the last President you did trust?

were not supposed to trust them, we are supposed to watch them like a hawk to keep them straight

Right, but not every move a sitting President makes is designed to somehow comprise our rights and freedoms. Discernment is key here.

[Outonowhere]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/01/13/obama_with_or_without_congress_im_going_to_keep_at_it.html

RIIIGHT.... tell that to Barry...

 [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at

[Skippy00004]

"with or without congress" eh? Last time I checked, that's not how it works.

[Outonowhere]

Honestly, with how the overall .gov and especially the top admin. has been positioning and setting things up, there is no other conclusion you can come to.  Watch CSPAN some time and you would be surprised what you hear.  For *&^#'s sake, they are saying to our faces in the public that they want to take our rights away and that they want to throw dissenters into bottomless pits.  If it wasn't for snooky and american idol and NFL and all that other distraction not to mention the blatantly biased and compulsive lying "main stream" media maybe more people would be paying attention to whats actually said and done by those in "power".

[mountainredneck2051]

There is no pleasing some folks. Voted for the first option.

Sledge, so you don't trust Obama, which is fine. But what was the last President you did trust?

were not supposed to trust them, we are supposed to watch them like a hawk to keep them straight

Right, but not every move a sitting President makes is designed to somehow comprise our rights and freedoms. Discernment is key here.

"the price of freedom is eternal vigilance" - Thomas Jefferson

[Outonowhere]

"with or without congress" eh? Last time I checked, that's not how it works.

I ask you, "how many times has Barry said 'I wish I could just do this on my own'?"

Now how many recess appointments has he made?  How many actions that are either unconstitutional or down right TREASONOUS (if he is a citizen) has he taken?  How many times has he strong armed, bribed and threatened those in congress and elsewhere to do what he requires or them?  How many "double takes" does it require to see that we are REPEATING HISTORY, only the last time the man was white and had a tiny mustache?

[crudos]

Outonowhere: Can't really agree with anything you just posted. I don't support President Obama, just like I didn't support President Bush, but your thoughts on the US becoming Nazi Germany insinuations are just plain wrong, in my view. Department of Justice said his recess appointments were by the book and okay. Just like his predecessors recess appointments. We may not like them, but the Nazi comparisons are way off-base. I wish the prepper movement had more discernment when it comes to politics. Part of the reasons I never got into the Survivalist movement of the 70's and 80's was the ghastly ignorance towards politics and it's realities. Our system is surely screwed-up, but the sheer hate towards a sitting President from certain sections of the population just makes me wonder our future as Americans. So I prep.

[EJR914]

There is no pleasing some folks. Voted for the first option.

Sledge, so you don't trust Obama, which is fine. But what was the last President you did trust?

Grover Cleveland.  Most vetoes of any president vs. time in office.  Of course, FDR had more, but had more terms.

[Outonowhere]

Don't get me wrong, I don't hold hate in my heart towards anyone.  It's just not healthy.  I do however abhor the direction that our country is moving and especially the consolidation of the power into a small section of the Federal versus the further limiting of the States.  That is opposite of how this country was founded.  And rest assured that this transition from a Republic to an Oligarchy has been many, MANY years in the making.  You say that the comparison of current day US to that of PRE-Nazi Germany just prior to WWII is unfounded? 

When in the past year has congress OR the President upheld the constitution AS IT IS WRITTEN and not made justification for circumventing it either through alternative interpretation or some other excuse?  Did the Nazi regime not have control over what was said in the media either by direct control, subversion or threat?  Has the intention and desire not been stated and worked made toward creating a "civil" group that matches the army in size, equipment and training?  Yes there are many things that are dissimilar to Pre-Nazi/Nazi Germany, but I ask you, What argument do you have that we are NOT heading in that direction and that things are not that bad?  The police have been militarized as 'generally' see the public as stupid and a nuisance, even a threat.  The military is openly preparing for conflict with the citizenry and to quell dissent/civil unrest.  The Fed has legislated away the Bill of Rights allowing them to regulate what you say, where you can say it, how you can say it and when you can say it. 

They have legislated that they can spy on you ANYWHERE, ANYTIME, and for ANY REASON.  They have legislated that you MUST purchase something that may or may not be a benefit to you and that you must pay for others as well, all the while giving exemptions to the people that support them.  If you do not like my comparison of where we are headed to with Nazi Germany than by all means, tell me HOW I am wrong.  In the end the basic truth remains... the country has quietly slipped from a Republic into a rapidly progressing Oligarchical tyranny.  And by the way, part of the Oligarchy means that you have team players in every part of the field, so I take whatever the DoJ (same ones that gave us Fast and Furious and others) little credence when it comes to the legality of Barry's actions. 

So I am clear, I am not basing my opinions of the current administration or system that is in place based upon one persons actions in one area but by looking at the picture as a whole.  Now as I have said before, if I am wrong then please explain it, otherwise my opinion stands.  When the Fed .gov makes moves such as consolidation and the increasing of power in one area as well as eroding the NATURAL "GOD" GIVEN RIGHTS of the citizens, I feel confident in calling a duck a duck... or in this case a progressing tyranny.

[sledge]

Outonowhere: Can't really agree with anything you just posted. I don't support President Obama, just like I didn't support President Bush, but your thoughts on the US becoming Nazi Germany insinuations are just plain wrong, in my view. Department of Justice said his recess appointments were by the book and okay. Just like his predecessors recess appointments. We may not like them, but the Nazi comparisons are way off-base. I wish the prepper movement had more discernment when it comes to politics. Part of the reasons I never got into the Survivalist movement of the 70's and 80's was the ghastly ignorance towards politics and it's realities. Our system is surely screwed-up, but the sheer hate towards a sitting President from certain sections of the population just makes me wonder our future as Americans. So I prep.

LOL Crudos.  Actually the similarities between the present day U.S. and 1930's early 40's Germany is pretty startling.  Massive unemployment, citizens angry or unhappy with their government, a government trying to provide too many social services while paying off a massive war debt, a fascist form of government takes hold due to a colusion of big business and government officials, personal privacy is tossed to the winds, and a security police state takes hold for the protection of Germany's citizens.

I've read a couple of pieces by people who lived in Germany during those times who have said the U.S. is on a slippery slope to repeat history.  If you look at Hitler's arguments and oratory it's amazing how similar it sounds to some of the stuff Obama has produced.

Just another point, the Department of Justice is controlled by an Obama disciple.  Did you really think they would say Obama violated the Constitution?  There is a difference in how Obama did it and the way his predecessors enacted recess appointments.  In fact, Bush faced the same issue and didn't appoint anyone during that congress's vacation due to the maneuver the Democrats invented because  the Justice Department told him it was unconstitutional.  I wouldn't believe anything the Justice Department says.  They have leadership issues and are today just another weapon in Obama's arsenal of Government attack dogs.

But that's just my view.   





 

[sledge]

There is no pleasing some folks. Voted for the first option.

Sledge, so you don't trust Obama, which is fine. But what was the last President you did trust?

Grover Cleveland.  Most vetoes of any president vs. time in office.  Of course, FDR had more, but had more terms.

Absolutely right!  Plus he turned the economy around by removing regulation.  Some others would be Harding and Collidge who by the way, did the same thing.  Amazing how that works.

[crudos]

Thanks Outonowhere and Sledge for your views, I do appreciate them, whether I agree or not. Just a general view by me is that the prepping community is really looking for tyranny, even when tyranny is non-existent or something else entirely unrelated. Yes, by all means, we MUST be vigilant and aware of the goings on in our elected government, and there is some messed-up shit going on, but..... We don't have 25% percent unemployment, we don't have hyperinflation, we don't have a lot of things present in Weimar Germany during the rise of fascism. There maybe tyranny coming, but it isn't coming from this President. But that's just my non-hyperinflated two cents. 

[sledge]

I came across this and thought it might pertain to this discussion.  One wonders how the Justice Department could have misread this when they claimed the President's recess appointments were Constitutional.



Look It Up In Our Constitution!

FIRST: What does Our Constitution say about presidential ?appointments??  Article II, Sec. 2, cl. 2, says:

?he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law; but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone?[emphasis added]


Do you see?  The constitutional scheme is that the President nominates ? the Senate confirms or rejects the President?s nomination.  This is the ?check? which Our Constitution imposes on the President?s nominations.  The purpose is to protect us from the loons, incompetents, or toadies whom various presidents have, from time to time, nominated.
NOW let us see what Our Constitution says about recess appointments. Article II, Sec. 2, last clause, says:
 
 The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session. [emphasis added]

Do you see?  The Vacancy must have happened at a time when the Senate was already in Recess!
So!  The President may not properly circumvent the Senate?s constitutionally granted power to reject his nominations by means of cheap gimmicks such as forcing the Congress to adjourn, or by waiting until Congress is in recess, to ?recess appoint? someone whom the Senate has already refused to approve!

http://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/2011/12/17/recess-appointments-by-the-president-what-our-constitution-really-says/

[Outonowhere]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/01/13/federal-judge-upholds-reporting-requirement-for-gun-stores/

Example of the left hand telling the body that the right hand is fine with its fingers tightening around the throat.  Please tell me how this is not back door registration in at least a limited form...

[sledge]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/01/13/federal-judge-upholds-reporting-requirement-for-gun-stores/

Example of the left hand telling the body that the right hand is fine with its fingers tightening around the throat.  Please tell me how this is not back door registration in at least a limited form...

And of course the picture they show is a table full of AK's.  Let's scare the public who already don't know what the definition of an assault rifle is.  The bastards.  They already showed that there aren't many guns going to Mexico unless the ATF and the Department of Justice  gets involved. 

So we have another Judge that hasn't bothered to read the Constitution or desires to assist the Administration override it for it's own agenda.