Author Topic: New York Governor : You are not welcome here  (Read 993 times)

Offline JohnyMac

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New York Governor : You are not welcome here
« on: January 20, 2014, 09:24:21 AM »
Quote
“Who are they? Are they these extreme conservatives who are right-to-life (a), pro-assault-weapon (b), anti-gay(c)? Is that who they are? Because if that’s who they are and if they are the extreme conservatives, they have no place in the state of New York, because that’s not who New Yorkers are.” Governor Cuomo said at a resent radio interview on January 17, 2014.


So people who are against the murdering of children in their mothers womb (a), are pro Second Amendment (b), and follow the New & Old Testament (c); are not welcome in the state of New York and are considered extreme conservatives.

WOW! IMO, this is "hate talk" from the Governor of one of the top five states when looking at population - Third to be specific (19,378,102).

What a fascist!
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 09:28:31 AM by JohnyMac »
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Offline thatGuy

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Re: New York Governor : You are not welcome here
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2014, 04:13:12 PM »
Yeah John but it's that particular brand of accepted hate speech..

Its like folks have forgotten that our Nation was founded upon Christian values and that those values are what made this the greatest Nation on the face of the Earth.

Am I the only one who has noticed that the further we get from those values the more fucked our world becomes?

Offline Well-Prepared Witch

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Re: New York Governor : You are not welcome here
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2014, 04:44:17 PM »
Due respect, but our nation was NOT founded as a Christian nation and there's documentation to prove it.  Also, I'm sure the pre-Christian Pagans thought the change to Christianity was a sign of society dying (and there's some historical evidence to show it was true - but only because it was a huge paradigm shift during a time of the fall of the Roman Empire and the beginning of the Dark Ages).  I don't want to get into an argument, but any one religion's values are not the make or break of a society and world.
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Offline JohnyMac

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Re: New York Governor : You are not welcome here
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2014, 06:04:24 PM »
O-Kay Wellie what do you think about Governor Cuomo's comments?  ;)

On another note: Not wanting to argue only wanting to learn - What documents? "...our nation was NOT founded as a Christian nation and there's documentation to prove it." Thanks!  :thumbsUp:

My rather limited understanding of history was that in fact the earliest settlers from Europe were Jewish and Christian. As a matter of fact the oldest synagogue in North America was in Newport, RI (1658) which is still standing.

The pilgrims landed (Today's Congregational Church) arrived at Cape Cod on September 1620. As a matter of fact the grave of the first white female child born in the new world (1624), Elizabeth Alden Pabodie, is buried just down the road from me in Little Compton, RI.

Then of course there is old Roger Williams who:
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In 1636, he began the colony of Providence Plantation, which provided a refuge for religious minorities. Williams started the first Baptist church in America, the First Baptist Church of Providence. He was a student of Native American languages and an advocate for fair dealings with Native Americans. Williams was arguably the first abolitionist in North America, having organized the first attempt to prohibit slavery in any of the original thirteen colonies.


Then there is the definition of Judeo-Christian values.
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The United States of America is the only country in history to have defined itself as Judeo-Christian. While the Western world has consisted of many Christian countries and consists today of many secular countries, only America has called itself Judeo-Christian. America is also unique in that it has always combined secular government with a society based on religious values.


Please, please, please Wellie, I want to learn. What documents are you referring too when America was not founded on Judeo-Christian law & values and by the earliest settlers from Europe?

Thanks.  :thumbsUp:
 
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Offline Well-Prepared Witch

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Re: New York Governor : You are not welcome here
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2014, 06:42:55 PM »
People who were Christian may have been some of the earliest white settlers (if you want to go back before the founding of the country let's go all the way back to the Native Americans and other First Peoples, who were NOT Christian), but the Founding Fathers and early presidents specifically stated this was not founded as a Christian nation.

There are many sites out there discussing the subject and many writings of Jefferson, Franklin and some of the other men of influence, though not lawmakers, like Paine.  I would point to our founding documents, though, as the clearest declaration.  The Constitution of the United States has NO mention of God, Creator, or religion except to state "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States". 

The Declaration is a little more religious with three references. The first, "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God" (which if I were being pedantic I could say really sounds much more Pagan than Christian, but I know that's specious as none of the signers of the Declaration were what anyone modern would consider Pagan).  Then there's "endowed by their Creator", which again doesn't specify Who that Creator is.  Third is "with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence", which one could argue is more referential to a Christian philosophy.  However, the Declaration was not a statement of how we are to be governed.

The second president of the United States, John Adams - someone who should know, signed the Treaty of Tripoli  that states "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Mohammedan] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

The Bill of Rights has only one reference to religion, and it is "Amendment I: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

None of this gives ANY indication that our country was founded as a religious country in any way.  While we may have had a heavy Puritan influence from some of our earliest settlers, don't forget that many of our other (perhaps unwilling) early settlers were prisoners and criminals.  We may (for good or ill, and that's a whole other debate) have been heavily influenced by Judeo-Christian ethics and culture, but that's a different matter.

As to Cuomo's comments, I don't know if I'd go as far as calling it hate speech, but I do think it's intolerant.  I will say that the extreme conservatives do want to remove the rights of those with whom they don't agree, whereas more liberal folks want everyone to be able to make their own choices according to their own beliefs.  But that's my own opinion.
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Offline JohnyMac

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Re: New York Governor : You are not welcome here
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2014, 07:05:42 PM »
Thank you Wellie for your thoughts.  :thumbsUp: You rock!

I might suggest you read an article that supports the premise that the USofA was founded on Judeo-Christian laws where the 10 Commandments were used as a guideline for many of our laws. Here is a short excerpt:

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Our Founding Fathers were religious in a new way, the Judeo-Christian way, and they were the liberals of their day by deducing that our political and human rights come from a power higher than human government; but they were conservative to Biblical morality.  There was and still is a connection between God and Liberty; He is the author of it.  It is ironic that American Conservatives are now the champion of this our most liberal founding principle; and also an irony that most American Conservatives are wholly unaware of their connection with the liberal founding ideas of this great republic.  It is also an irony that many American Liberals have turned a blind eye to the required connection between God and Liberty.  As Thomas Jefferson and John Adams noted, as you will see below, Liberty cannot survive among men without its Divine connection.

In Judeo-Christian America one finds the idea of equality before God and the law, but not government forced economic equality.   Modern European culture has stressed the value of economic equality rather than Liberty, and their governments unjustly enforce the principle.  This has led to the failed European inventions of Socialism and Communism.  Socialists in America have been lured into this failed European idea of social justice.  Socialism is a failure in that it unjustly suppresses human creativity by excessively taxing away its rewards, and by foolishly giving economic reward to many who, even though mentally and physically able, fail to honor their Divine privilege and duty to work creatively.

Thus, Socialism is a dual insult to God-given creativity.  Communism was much worse in that it also dishonored the sacredness of human life and liberty.  Communism was the inevitable result of separating not just church from state, but God from state.  Communism dishonored God's gifts of Life, Liberty and Creativity.  European cultures have historical ties to authoritarian and totalitarian systems dating back to the Roman Empire.  Even European Christianity was, for a time, contaminated by its links to authoritarian rule. 


The great thing about the USofA is we can have this discussion Wellie. I believe in ones expression of religion how they see fit whether it be; Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, Shinto, Global Warming, Wicca or even Christianity. As long as we are following the law of the land.

Thank you for your thoughts, I appreciate them.
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CrystalHunter1989

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Re: New York Governor : You are not welcome here
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2014, 10:06:54 PM »
Discussion about religion and morality notwithstanding, what's being proven here is the cold fact that America is now embedded with its own Kulak class: us.

Offline Well-Prepared Witch

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Re: New York Governor : You are not welcome here
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2014, 10:35:09 PM »
Crystal - Who do you think is being equated with the kulak class?  I'd call it the one-percenters. 

JM - thanks.  It is good that we can have these discussions freely in the USA. Let's hope it stays that way! :) (Meaning I hope the country continues valuing free speech.)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 10:37:44 PM by Well-Prepared Witch »
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Offline JohnyMac

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Re: New York Governor : You are not welcome here
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2014, 11:30:28 PM »
Correct me if I am wrong here Crystal, but you are equating the "extreme conservatives" that Governor Cuomo speaks of as the new Kulak class.

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"According to the political theory of Marxism–Leninism of the early 20th century, the kulaks were class enemies of the poorer peasants. Vladimir Ilyich Lenin described them as "bloodsuckers, vampires, plunderers of the people and profiteers, who [f]atten on famine.”

Whether you like or follow Glenn Beck or Sean Hannity, they both published an open letter directed to the Governors comments. Here is Becks open letter:

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In light of your comments this past Friday, in which you declared that those “…extremist conservatives who are right-to-life, pro-assault weapon, anti-gay” have no place in the state of New York, we would humbly request a written explanation as to whether or not we are welcome to do business in this state. For many of our employees are pro-life and believe strongly in the Second Amendment. All of us will stand against any group being discriminated against.

But if we are not welcome, we will leave.

To give you some background on who we are and what we believe, Mercury Radio Arts and TheBlaze Inc. is a multimedia news, opinion and entertainment company, dedicated to delivering high-quality programming 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Through our Mercury One non-profit organization, we have also raised and given away for emergency relief over $14 million since its inception.

We were the first responders to Coney Island during Superstorm Sandy, not the federal government and not the state government, but Mercury One. We are good neighbors. We employ approximately 200 people in the State of New York and well over 300 people nationally from Washington D.C. to Dallas, Texas.
Glenn Becks Open Letter to Gov. Cuomo: Are We Welcome in New York?

MercuryOne employees were among the first to respond and provide aid in Coney Island following Superstorm Sandy in October 2012.

Our television content is broadcast to millions of people across America, including to New Yorkers through Dish Network and Cablevision.

Our internet content is seen by over 24 million unique visitors a month across the world.

Our radio content is carried on 400 stations and heard by millions across the nation daily.

Under the leadership and vision of our executives, one of whom incidentally was previously the Chief Executive Officer of the Huffington Post, our employees earn and are provided with the highest quality health care money can buy, regardless of its rapidly-increasing cost.

We are fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, entrepreneurs, dreamers, visionaries, hard-workers, straight, gay, black, white, believers, non-believers, liberals and conservatives. More importantly than any one of these labels, we are decent and kind human beings, and upstanding, loyal and patriotic Americans.

We are principled in the content we provide, and we work under a simple ethos: We tell the stories of love and courage where the good guys win.

We will stand with those with whom we may often disagree, like GLAAD, when they defend Russian citizens against hetero-fascists who argue that gays should be thrown in the ovens.

We will stand with a Hispanic actress who is compelled to resign from a performance because she happens to endorse a conservative candidate and we will stand with an MSNBC host who makes a mistake in a segment on race.

We think it was wrong when President Franklin D. Roosevelt interned Japanese Americans, and when our government mistreated Native Americans, such as during the massacre at Wounded Knee. For Manifest Destiny is wrong now and it was wrong then.

Why do we take these positions that at times do not comport with your notion of “extreme conservatives?”

We do so because we don’t believe people are parties.

We don’t see things as left and right. We see things as right and wrong.

We don’t see things as left and right. We see things as right and wrong.

And we believe that the only moral position is to stand up to bullies and fascists of all kinds. We believe in equal rights for all and special privileges for none. We believe it’s our duty to dedicate our life and sacred honor to all American citizens, and every last one of us deserves and has a right, not from our government, but from our Creator, to be heard.

If the majority tramples on the rights of the minority we all lose.

And the most important minority is the individual – whether he or she be an “extreme conservative” or an “extreme progressive.”

The fundamental basis on which our country was built was on robust free speech. The very first right that the Founders of this nation enshrined in our Bill of Rights was freedom of speech because we created this country to escape the yoke of tyranny. When freedom of speech is chilled, we cannot openly express our ideas, and without competing ideas there can be only tyranny.

If a man cannot be free in his thoughts, can a man be free?

If a nation cannot tolerate all thoughts, can a nation be free? Is not our very strength as a country measured on its ability to tolerate and encourage all ideas?

Do we not all lose something when any one of us is excommunicated from society for our deep-seated opinions and beliefs?

So Gov. Cuomo, we must ask in light of your comments, would you build a tyranny here in New York? Would you stand against your constituents and blot them out into the darkness merely because you disagree with them, or because it serves you or your party politically? Would disenfranchised peoples have ever gained their freedoms in this country were it not for the right to free speech, and the pluralistic and truly diverse society that free speech facilitates?
Glenn Becks Open Letter to Gov. Cuomo: Are We Welcome in New York?

Our organization creates jobs for hundreds of people in your state, and provides news, opinion, entertainment and a helping hand for millions of people across this country. Are our contributions, tax dollars, and genuine goodness as citizens not welcome here?

We respectfully request an answer on whether there are two classes of citizens.

But Gov. Cuomo, it’s not us that you should worry about, because as we have seen, every time this kind of speech is taken up by those in power, eventually history demands an answer.

Respectfully,

Glenn Beck
Founder and President of Mercury Radio Arts and TheBlaze Inc.
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Offline crudos

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Re: New York Governor : You are not welcome here
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2014, 02:47:52 PM »
I do find more than a little irony in Beck's statement, but that is par for the course with him.  :facepalm:

As for Cuomo, if he had said the opposite about say, progressives, would there be as much blow-back from conservatives? I would say the would've been minimal controversy, and Limbaugh, et. al., would be jumping on the Cuomo bandwagon. And not defending the dreaded and cursed progressive.
 :deadHorse:


Offline JohnyMac

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Re: New York Governor : You are not welcome here
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2014, 08:32:39 PM »
Crudos, huh?

1) Governor Cuomo did not say anything about Progressives. His comments were directed to Constitutional
    Conservatives like me. I do not support abortion nor do I support capital punishment.

    I do not think my "ugly rifle" is the cause of all of the deaths we see in large metropolitan cities - Do you? As a
    matter of fact a AR is MrsMac's favorite defensive firearm in our household. She does not like the recoil of
    other weapons.

    I have homosexual friends around the country - Both male & female. One of which is a Lesbian Lawyer in LA
    who venomously supports the Second Amendment.       
2) In Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinsky Rule 5 is:
     
Quote
“Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a
      key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.

     Crudos, are you ridiculing me because of my positions?
3) We have a governor of a state with 19+ million citizens making a statement that he does not want JohnyMac
    or MrsMac in his state. It has nothing to do with Glenn Beck or Sean Hannity. Do you understand that we are
    personally offended by his statement? Do you understand or do you get a sense of joy ridiculing us?

   
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Offline crudos

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Re: New York Governor : You are not welcome here
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2014, 09:41:11 PM »
Crudos, huh?

1) Governor Cuomo did not say anything about Progressives. His comments were directed to Constitutional
    Conservatives like me. I do not support abortion nor do I support capital punishment.

    I do not think my "ugly rifle" is the cause of all of the deaths we see in large metropolitan cities - Do you? As a
    matter of fact a AR is MrsMac's favorite defensive firearm in our household. She does not like the recoil of
    other weapons.

    I have homosexual friends around the country - Both male & female. One of which is a Lesbian Lawyer in LA
    who venomously supports the Second Amendment.       
2) In Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinsky Rule 5 is:
     
Quote
“Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a
      key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.

     Crudos, are you ridiculing me because of my positions?
3) We have a governor of a state with 19+ million citizens making a statement that he does not want JohnyMac
    or MrsMac in his state. It has nothing to do with Glenn Beck or Sean Hannity. Do you understand that we are
    personally offended by his statement? Do you understand or do you get a sense of joy ridiculing us?

 
Think you missed my point. And in no way am I ridiculing you. If my comments made you feel that way, then I apologize.

I do ridicule Glen Beck because he deserves it, nothing more than a ratings shill in search of his next big contract.

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: New York Governor : You are not welcome here
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2014, 09:59:14 PM »
 :thumbsUp: Understand Crudos and Thank you. Enough said.  ;)
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