Local cops ready for war

[Skippy00004]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/12/20/local-cops-ready-for-war-with-homeland-security-funded-military-weapons.html

Fuck this.

Also, check out the quote about 3/4 down the page. That's the kind of mentality I'm afraid of.

[CrystalHunter1989]

Ok, so they have all this stuff. But can they actually USE it effectively? Watch the video of the Jose Gurrera raid. Being with SWAT is still a far cry from the military.

[Skippy00004]

Ok, so they have all this stuff. But can they actually USE it effectively? Watch the video of the Jose Gurrera raid. Being with SWAT is still a far cry from the military.

 [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co  Very true

[sledge]

Ok, so they have all this stuff. But can they actually USE it effectively? Watch the video of the Jose Gurrera raid. Being with SWAT is still a far cry from the military.

They're not supposed to be soldiers, but that doesn't stop most SWAT members from thinking they are part of some elite unit and getting a mental high off of it.  I don't have a problem with officers having AR's and protective vests.  Occasionally, as in rarely, their job can turn dangerous.  Trouble is, when that occurs now days it's usually the cop that has initiated it.

My issue with what's happened in LE (formerly Peace Officers) is the training they receive drumming into their heads that they are in a war against practically everything.  War on drugs, war on terrorism, war on drunk driving, war on seat belt use, no tolerance policy for this, no tolerance policy for that.  The belief that in order to keep society safe everything has to be controlled.  And the belief that this  doesn't happen until the citizens are controlled.  This has come down from the Fed (both in funding and idealism) in order for the Fed to protect the status quo by exercising control of citizens through the enactment of questionable laws, over reach by the Judicial branch in creating legislation, and the manipulation of LE departments through corruptive training usually initiated by the Fed.

So now every one stop light town has a swat team delivering jury summons and most agencies of the Federal Government have they're own elite teams to handle white collar, non injury crimes.  ( Crimes created in most cases by bureaucrats in the form of regulations never voted on by congress.)

Yes, I do see some problems occurring with what is going on with "LE" that would make the Founding Fathers cringe.

Does anyone in LE care?  Few if many at all.  And to tell you the truth, with what's coming down the pike, it probably doesn't matter.     

[JohnyMac]

Bump

[Colombo]

They aren't even close to ready. From what I see they suffer from both a mall ninja like mentality regarding equipment and I believe their training not only will make them easier targets but seriously degrade unit survivability if they square up against anything other than the local criminals. They seriously need to grasp enfilade vs defilade to survive even barely competent tactics.

I also suspect the mentality that most but not all have as evidenced by referring to any one not in law enforcement as civilians will come back and bite them in the ass when they "find"  that special and ready "Civilian" who's kicked more doors and taken more fire than their whole dept.

           

Wanted to edit one word in my post so this seems to work.

[sledge]

They aren't even close to ready. From what I see they suffer from both a mall ninja like mentality regarding equipment and I believe their training not only will make them easier targets but seriously degrade unit survivability if they square up against anything other than the local criminals. They seriously need to grasp enfilade vs defilade to survive even barely competent tactics.

I also suspect the mentality that most but not all have as evidenced by referring to any one not in law enforcement as civilians will come back and bite them in the ass when they "find"  that special and ready "Civilian" who's kicked more doors and taken more fire than their whole dept.

           

Wanted to edit one word in my post so this seems to work.

I don't know if I totally agree with the generalization.  A higher percentage of cops than in the past come from a military background.  Usually, those aren't the guys you see displaying a screwed  up "power trip" mentality.  They seem to keep there shit together under stress better instead of escalating situations. 

You do make a good point about cops coming up against that special civilian that has taken more fire than their entire department.  Because of the long years of combat going back to the original Iraq invasion there are more combat proven civilians than at any point in our history other that right after WWII.  And it appears more are on the way home unless they wind up in Kuwait or Jordan waiting for the next one.

[goodnightChesty1775]

all we can hope for is that if they are in the position where they are tasked with violating the Constitution, they think twice and dont do it. and i hope that a good percentage of cops are guys like us, but from my experience it is NOT that way. 

[JohnyMac]

How do I Say this....

My experience with local police today is more confrontational then I remember lets say when I was a young adult of 18 or so.

I am 55 and I have had a few run-in's with local LEO's. When I say run-ins I do not mean because I have been unlawful- That has never happened I mean when I question them or there authority.

Here are two examples that may help to explain my point better then I am doing so far.

1975:
My buddy and I were driving from Bucks County, PA to the Tower Theater in Upper Darby, PA. for a concert. You have to drive through Philly to get there or take the train. My buddy and I took my 1966 Cutless and we got lost. We ended up going down a one way street the wrong way in Germantown. Well a cop car pulled us over.

Because there was a aroma of pot in the air and a few roaches in the ash tray the Philly cops searched the car. Upon searching my Buick they found a single shot .22 in the truck. They asked me what I was doing with the .22 and I told them it was my squirrel rifle and I was hunting earlier in the day and forgot it was there. I pointed to my game vest with the hunting license firmly attached to the back.

They were very polite; told us how to get back on track and let us go. No fuss no muss.

2010:
The state is building a new bridge about 300 yards south of were we live. Even though it is south of us it is still affecting our neighborhood. One day I was going to work and was stopped by a local police officer due to the bridge. The traffic backed up behind me as my neighbors where trying to go to work. Many were mom's trying to get their kids to the bus stop up on the main road.

Well 10 minutes or so went by and I rolled down my window and motioned for the police officer to come over to my window. He ignored me. So I said, "Officer, What is the hold up? We have to go to work and some mom's in line here have to get their kids up to the school bust stop."

Well he walked over to me and started to give me some lip. Of course being old JohnyMac I told him that if he didn't let us pass pronto I was going to file a charge of false imprisonment with the Chief. Well he then went nuts on me. He demanded my drivers license. I asked him what he needed that for? He told me I had no right to question him, etc, blah, etc, blah.

I looked at his name badge and said, "Officer XYZ. My name is Johnxyz and please have Chief XYZ call me this morning when he gets a chance. He has my phone number." I then rolled up my window and would not converse or give him eye contact.

Well due to impatience, the cars behind me started to beep and the bridge construction crew gave the OKay and the police officer waved us on.

Well later that afternoon I got a call from Chief XYZ who told me that Officer XYZ was very upset with me.   

I told my story to the Chief who just laughed and then apologised for his newest officer on the force. He told me that the officer was fresh out of the sandbox and the states police academy. He also told me that the officer would be coming by that evening to apologize.

Well true to the Chiefs word Officer XYZ did come around and apologise. We have seen each other umpteen times since then and chatted. The officer actually bought me a cup of Dunken Donuts coffee a couple of weeks ago after we passed some time in line.

My point is: I had the gumption to not put up with the BS that this officer was laying down. Would the average sheeple? What right did the police officer have to talk to me that way. How could he have not allowed the situation to escalate? Just some thoughts and comments. Can I rely on this Police officer doing the right thing in a stressful situation?

[special-k]

The paradoxical truth (IMO):
"Those who's life long goal is to be a cop, usually end up being the worst for the job."

[Rebelac7]

Our Sheriffs Office has recieved hundreds of military surplus m16's. Most law enforcment have to buy their own rifles. This provides us with a great tool for the job. All gun fighters need the best equipment they can get, especially those who have to respond to active shooters. The only difference between these rifles and non NFA weapons  are the full auto capabilities and the fact that it doesnt cost anything but shipping. Full auto is for fun and spraying through vietnam jungles. Law enfocment isnt getting ready for war in any jungle. The fact these rifles are being issued to local law enforcment agencies is amazing. THese grants are provided by homeland security, and only cost the shipping to ship. After someone uses deadly force here in Georgia the Crime Lab keeps whatever gun in storage forever, you never get your gun back even cops and department weapons. As a leo myself, using these guns provided help finacially. This is a positive thing, cops need guns and the best we can provide.

[Rebelac7]

all we can hope for is that if they are in the position where they are tasked with violating the Constitution, they think twice and dont do it. and i hope that a good percentage of cops are guys like us, but from my experience it is NOT that way.

Your rights are determined by the United States Supreme Court nowdays, NOT the Constitution. This being said, law enforcment would never accept any ruleing requiring us to ,"TAKE ARE GUNS!".  THis would be done by the Military using FEMA policies and precedures, not some poor bastard you've been preparing to kill in your driveway.

[Rebelac7]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/12/20/local-cops-ready-for-war-with-homeland-security-funded-military-weapons.html

Fuck this.

Also, check out the quote about 3/4 down the page. That's the kind of mentality I'm afraid of.

'


Good old brain washing Liberal Media bullshit, believe every word like the other sheep.

[Deathstyle]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/12/20/local-cops-ready-for-war-with-homeland-security-funded-military-weapons.html

Fuck this.

Also, check out the quote about 3/4 down the page. That's the kind of mentality I'm afraid of.

The guy being quoted used to be LAPD Police Chief. He is a real leftist and anti-gunner. He can turn facts around to suite his own interests with little remorse he should be a pundit on tv.

By the way he is also a GLOCK fanboy!!!

[Rebelac7]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/12/20/local-cops-ready-for-war-with-homeland-security-funded-military-weapons.html

Fuck this.

Also, check out the quote about 3/4 down the page. That's the kind of mentality I'm afraid of.

The guy being quoted used to be LAPD Police Chief. He is a real leftist and anti-gunner. He can turn facts around to suite his own interests with little remorse he should be a pundit on tv.

By the way he is also a GLOCK fanboy!!!

Not only that "chief" positions are appointed by the Mayor. THey are not Law Enforcment they are FUCKING college bread Crimminal Justice Majors with no idea how anything works in the real world. There is a reason he "USED" to be a Chief.

[Rebelac7]

Ok, so they have all this stuff. But can they actually USE it effectively? Watch the video of the Jose Gurrera raid. Being with SWAT is still a far cry from the military.

It is very true that equipment is no substitute for training, So hopefully their department will get a Great DTO and train Train TRAIN!

[sledge]

THis would be done by the Military using FEMA policies and precedures, not some poor bastard you've been preparing to kill in your driveway.

LOL!  I was wondering when the Reb would jump in.  Glad you did!  For myself, I'm not looking to kill any poor bastard in my driveway that isn't looking to kill me.

[Rebelac7]

They aren't even close to ready. From what I see they suffer from both a mall ninja like mentality regarding equipment and I believe their training not only will make them easier targets but seriously degrade unit survivability if they square up against anything other than the local criminals. They seriously need to grasp enfilade vs defilade to survive even barely competent tactics.

I also suspect the mentality that most but not all have as evidenced by referring to any one not in law enforcement as civilians will come back and bite them in the ass when they "find"  that special and ready "Civilian" who's kicked more doors and taken more fire than their whole dept.

           

Wanted to edit one word in my post so this seems to work.

WE are honored to have an expert like yourself give your expert opinion based on a single picture. You must be amazing to have the skills to be able to measure the abilities of these officers AND the totality of circumstances based on a single Media artical and picture. We are honored. "bows"

[goodnightChesty1775]

all we can hope for is that if they are in the position where they are tasked with violating the Constitution, they think twice and dont do it. and i hope that a good percentage of cops are guys like us, but from my experience it is NOT that way.

Your rights are determined by the United States Supreme Court nowdays, NOT the Constitution. This being said, law enforcment would never accept any ruleing requiring us to ,"TAKE ARE GUNS!".  THis would be done by the Military using FEMA policies and precedures, not some poor bastard you've been preparing to kill in your driveway.

sad thing is your right nowadays.....there are several state/federal laws have trumped any every part of the Constitution that actually protects our freedom, liberty, and security. and leos just love it...

[Rebelac7]

THis would be done by the Military using FEMA policies and precedures, not some poor bastard you've been preparing to kill in your driveway.

LOL!  I was wondering when the Reb would jump in.  Glad you did!  For myself, I'm not looking to kill any poor bastard in my driveway that isn't looking to kill me.

Hehe, nice response. I like it

[Rebelac7]

all we can hope for is that if they are in the position where they are tasked with violating the Constitution, they think twice and dont do it. and i hope that a good percentage of cops are guys like us, but from my experience it is NOT that way.

Your rights are determined by the United States Supreme Court nowdays, NOT the Constitution. This being said, law enforcment would never accept any ruleing requiring us to ,"TAKE ARE GUNS!".  THis would be done by the Military using FEMA policies and precedures, not some poor bastard you've been preparing to kill in your driveway.

sad thing is your right nowadays.....there are several state/federal laws have trumped any every part of the Constitution that actually protects our freedom, liberty, and security. and leos just love it...

Do note, I didn't say it was the right thing, it's just the Blue Pill of Todays world. Have fun swallowing it society...

[Rebelac7]

all we can hope for is that if they are in the position where they are tasked with violating the Constitution, they think twice and dont do it. and i hope that a good percentage of cops are guys like us, but from my experience it is NOT that way.

Your rights are determined by the United States Supreme Court nowdays, NOT the Constitution. This being said, law enforcment would never accept any ruleing requiring us to ,"TAKE ARE GUNS!".  THis would be done by the Military using FEMA policies and precedures, not some poor bastard you've been preparing to kill in your driveway.

sad thing is your right nowadays.....there are several state/federal laws have trumped any every part of the Constitution that actually protects our freedom, liberty, and security. and leos just love it...

Some cops love it, some civilians love it just like the cops. Blame your neighbors too.

[sledge]

Rebelac7 what percentage of your department would you say is ex military.  Here the department is probably close to 35%, maybe a little higher.

[Rebelac7]

Rebelac7 what percentage of your department would you say is ex military.  Here the department is probably close to 35%, maybe a little higher.

lower that 35% I think, our training Deparment is Amazing. It is run by ex military individuals and our Sheriff spares no expense on training. Law Enfocment is evolving on the local level. The State level is still behind 30 years, the federal level is apparently so far behind, they are training before the constitution was writen.

[goodnightChesty1775]

just how many active shooter, or terrorist sits. have we had in this country in the last 10 years? 4, 5? so we need 'peace officers' that resemble military raiding parties? with all those surplus m16s (that the public has to jump through hoops to get) and how are these 'peace officers' being trained to target people they suspect as terrorists? because i wear my Mjolnir i am profiled as a terrorist, i carry a Constitution, same thing, i dont like being taxed 7-ways from suday, you got it same thing.....

now can you tell me how many leos filter out the bullcrap the DHS spits in regards to who is a terrorist?