A voluntary based free market would never work

[Kentactic]

Governing Dynamics: Ignore the Blonde - A Beautif…:

http://youtu.be/CemLiSI5ox8

This short clip in the link above is a good way to show how a voluntary market would work. Many(statists) criticize capitalism(a free market) for its total freedom of the individual to exploit others without consequences. You can see in this scene that the best thing for the individual to do, to act in his or her own best interest, is to help the group. So allowing the individual to act in his or her own best interest is always best for society as a whole because it is in the individuals best interest to act in the best interest of society. Are you going to tell me that people will act against their own best interest(the best interest for society)?

In our current fascist market it is NOT in the best interest of the individual, to act in the best interest of the group. Its dog eat dog, pull any scam you can to get by because government will be raping you either way if you don't have their personal approval. And thats the exact claim that the statist would make about a voluntary market. As we can see thats incorrect and the statist is protecting that which is the reasoning for their government in the first place. A market that rewards the individual for harming the group.

[Grudgie]

So if I own a business that competes with other buisnesses, it would be in my personal benefit to pay them low wages because that is more money I save. I benefit.

But.. If I pay them high wages, the good productive employees will come work for my business and not the competing buisnesses. And the product or service that my business provides will improve. Thus we all benefit.

[Kentactic]

So if I own a business that competes with other buisnesses, it would be in my personal benefit to pay them low wages because that is more money I save. I benefit.

But.. If I pay them high wages, the good productive employees will come work for my business and not the competing buisnesses. And the product or service that my business provides will improve. Thus we all benefit.

Exactly. It is in your personal best interest to benefit everyone.

[Kbop]

So if I own a business that competes with other buisnesses, it would be in my personal benefit to pay them low wages because that is more money I save. I benefit.

But.. If I pay them high wages, the good productive employees will come work for my business and not the competing buisnesses. And the product or service that my business provides will improve. Thus we all benefit.

that works just fine if the business requires skilled/educated workers in an environment where labor is scarce.  it starts to fall apart in assembly line type jobs and looses all cohesion in unskilled labor.

IMHO, the situation is probably too complex to make a 'Adam Smith' type statement.  Generalities work well but if you want to take a rule and test it, apply it to multiple situations and it needs to work in all of those situations.  I do agree that our current market is very tough and getting tougher.  the people on top aren't the kind that 'share' very well.  without us peons they can't stay on top - it tends to be self limiting like that.  -I'm glad I don't work in a soft science like economics!

[Grudgie]

Ofcourse it applies to unskilled labour. If it didn't, managers and supervisors would be paid the same as the associates they supervise.

But a modern statist society is a poor example to demonstrate how this 'Adam smith' statement works due to the government creating artificial interference in the free market.

So paraphrasing the line was, 'The best result comes from the individual doing what is best for themself considering the actions of the group'

The modern American economy is a horrible representation of this because you don't have individuals doing what is best for themselves. You have a governing body over a collective making decisions for the collective, while considering their own interests.

[Well-Prepared Witch]

Of course it applies to unskilled labour. If it didn't, managers and supervisors would be paid the same as the associates they supervise.

I disagree - management is more skilled (in certain areas) than line-workers.

I think when the average CEO makes 350 times what their average employee makes that the "free market" as a vehicle for equality or "healthy" industry is completely disproved.

[Grudgie]

I just made the case that modern economies are horrible representations of free market. A CEO's salary doesn't disprove anything.

If anything, it shows that a statist/socialist economy is not a vehicle for equality. You see, every time you criticize the American economy you are critisizing statism/socialism.

A voluntary econmy is completely different.

[special-k]

...every time you criticize the American economy you are critisizing statism/socialism.

    ^^^THIS^^^

[Kentactic]

Of course it applies to unskilled labour. If it didn't, managers and supervisors would be paid the same as the associates they supervise.

I disagree - management is more skilled (in certain areas) than line-workers.

I think when the average CEO makes 350 times what their average employee makes that the "free market" as a vehicle for equality or "healthy" industry is completely disproved.

What free market are you gathering this data from? America has never been a free market and never will be so long as its still America. Free market and government cannot coexist. Its an impossibility.

[Kentactic]

I just made the case that modern economies are horrible representations of free market. A CEO's salary doesn't disprove anything.

If anything, it shows that a statist/socialist economy is not a vehicle for equality. You see, every time you criticize the American economy you are critisizing statism/socialism.

A voluntary econmy is completely different.

I believe America is more of a fascist(crony-capitalist) economy, what with its government selected giant corporations etc.

But either way we're both on the same page for sure.

[Burt Gummer]

This short clip in the link above is a good way to show how a voluntary market would work. Many(statists) criticize capitalism(a free market) for its total freedom of the individual to exploit others without consequences.

Which is by definition "fascism" but that orwellian word flip to "capitalism" is so much more fashionable.  fight da powa...

You can see in this scene that the best thing for the individual to do, to act in his or her own best interest, is to help the group. So allowing the individual to act in his or her own best interest is always best for society as a whole because it is in the individuals best interest to act in the best interest of society. Are you going to tell me that people will act against their own best interest(the best interest for society)?

Yes I will tell you that. There are the ignorant, those stuck in the sadism / masochism cycle, the blatantly crazy, and the subtly crazy sociopaths that somehow gravitate towards political office. 

In our current fascist market it is NOT in the best interest of the individual, to act in the best interest of the group. Its dog eat dog, pull any scam you can to get by because government will be raping you either way if you don't have their personal approval. And thats the exact claim that the statist would make about a voluntary market. As we can see thats incorrect and the statist is protecting that which is the reasoning for their government in the first place. A market that rewards the individual for harming the group.

Go kenny!

So if I own a business that competes with other buisnesses, it would be in my personal benefit to pay them low wages because that is more money I save. I benefit.

But.. If I pay them high wages, the good productive employees will come work for my business and not the competing buisnesses. And the product or service that my business provides will improve. Thus we all benefit.

Two quick things.
1. If you pay high wages you'll still get the crummy employees odds of getting a good one increases. and good luck sorting them out.
2. You're looking for the wage that attracts good unskilled employees and then retains them once they become skilled. Also wage is not everything value can be derived from many things.

The modern American economy is a horrible representation of this because you don't have individuals doing what is best for themselves. You have a governing body over a collective making decisions for the collective, while considering their own interests.

Also property rights are horribly enforced

...every time you criticize the American economy you are critisizing statism/socialism.

   ^^^THIS^^^