Author Topic: I Grow Weary  (Read 1948 times)

CrystalHunter1989

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I Grow Weary
« on: October 19, 2012, 08:00:13 PM »
***This doesn't apply to anyone on this forum***

It bothers me that so many people in the blogosphere who claim to be liberty-minded are making statements like "if you vote for Romney then you're no better than Obama!" James Yeager, in his latest video supporting Gary Johnson, stated that those who vote for Romney or Obama are "treasonists." (For the record, I didn't even known Johnson had made it to the national ballot. The same thing happened to me with Ron Paul in '08)

I respect all respectfully defended opinions, and I take serious offense at the above attitudes. How are we supposed to work together in any future crisis if we let petty politics get in the way?

Vote for whoever you want to, but don't turn on your brothers. That kind of knee-jerk typecasting will destroy us (Roman Civil War, French Reign of Terror, Russian and Irish Civil War). Hasn't the whole message of the Liberty movement been "if I resolve to live free then I am"? I've seen repentant Obama voters get better treatment.

Those who vote for a candidate support his promises, not the action he takes in breaking them.

But it's only my second time voting for President, maybe I really am that naive and foolish...

Offline EJR914

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2012, 08:57:40 PM »
It only took me voting for scum like McCain once, and I learned my lesson.  It may take longer for you, or it may never happen.  When you're ready to jump off the R and D hamster wheel, you'll know it.  When you see that it really doesn't matter whether you vote R and D, it doesn't matter what party gets in, nothing major changes, the only thing that changes are the small transient things that don't matter, you'll finally get it.

Its ok, though, some are very old, in their 40's and 50's, and they still never get it.  Some never will.

Really when you realize that your vote really doesn't matter a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, you'll see that gambling on the guy that REALLY has in the past had a record that meets your principles, or just making a  principled vote when you know for a fact your State is going for R or D, like mine, going for R for sure, thus getting all your State's electoral votes, then you realize a vote for principle is better laid, because if 5 percent vote for L nationally, then the L's get campaign funding next time, which could eventually break the iron grip that the two parties have on the vicious cycle.

Here is the deal, though, we could get a bunch of libertarians in State positions, in Federal positions, and even in the White House, and the whole system is so corrupt, it wouldn't even matter anyway, but then again, that is a chance I"m willing to take, because AT LEAST, Gary Johnson's PAST actions as governor of NM for 8 years, PROVED beyond a reasonable doubt what his principles are.  At least we tried something different and proved that with beyond a doubt, the whole system is so corrupt that even changing out an entire party, with a party that believes in economic and social freedoms, and you still don't get any major changes in this country, then we'll know its impossible, and then we can know, that only one thing is going to shrug off this government, and allow us to be new safeguards in its place for our freedom and liberty.   Gary Johnson gave the people of New Mexico 8 years of Social and Economical freedom for the citizens, and balanced budgets for the State, even a surplus, did away with wasteful programs and wasteful spending, that is a growing cancer at ever level of government in this country. 

What did Romney's 8 years in MA prove that he was as Governor?  A left-wing Authoritarian Statist, quasi Socialist?  No thanks.

The fact that "patriots" would even THINK of throwing their vote to someone like that IS astonishing, because he stands for EVERYTHING that "patriots" are against.  With that said, though, everyone has a different view of what makes a "patriot."  There are plenty of people that consider "Patriots" and "Hero's" to be guys that promote and love an authoritarian policies and a foreign policy full of intervention, when if they really loved their country and their countrymen, they wouldn't support because of the obvious BLOWBACK terrorism it causes, which has already killed thousands of US citizens here at home, and will kill many more thousands as the US falls apart, and cannot hang on to the lavish spending of the past four decades are so, that has really accelerated in the past 10 plus years.  We're going to get lambasted, whenever that happens, they terrorist are going to have a field day using as a punching bag when everything falls apart here.  With as many of their family members as US bullets and bombs have killed, I can't say I blame them.

Reverse the scenario, and that would be me, trying to get in a foreign country to try to terrorize the heck out of their nation for sending bullets and bombs over to my country and killing my family and friends.  Its only natural, hell its NATURAL LAW. 

I'll give everyone a hint.  They don't hate us "because we're free" because we're not free, we're slaves to the State and more importantly the corporate, banking, and welfare State.  If you don't know what I"m talking about in any of this, go do your own research and see what you find.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 09:00:34 PM by EJR914 »

Offline Outonowhere

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2012, 09:01:30 PM »
No offense to you CH, honestly, however I believe you may have hit close to it with your last sentence.  Here's why.

It is the DUTY of every citizen Who takes up the responsibility to vote, just like when carrying a weapon, to be fully informed and aware of everything that is going on.  Back in the day a politician, when they actually held normal jobs outside of DC, could usually be counted on to keep their word.  If they didn't, they were ran out of there.  In the day of the CAREER politician and the "heroin" known as authoritative power, people will say anything, even make it look like they mean to keep their words just to get into office.  Talk is cheap, but from a politician talk is dangerous.

CHECK THEIR RECORDS. 
If a person was at one point left leaning but then their stance changed seemingly for no reason and there is evidence to that, then it would be better to believe them.  And it is FAR too EASY in the poor state of this nation's popular intellect for politicians to hide behind the (D) and the (R).  We cannot just listen to the media, another corrupted institution, to make up our minds but we must learn for ourselves every individual that has made the ballot and what their PAST positions were as well as what they wish to achieve.  Here is a link that should help with the first part: http://www.politics1.com/p2012.htm .

/rant
Needless to say I am PISSED at my state for having railroaded Gary Johnson off the ballot AFTER getting MORE than the required signatures...
/end rant

Do I feel as Yeager does?  Sure, somewhat.  But personally I would not be opposed to getting Barry back in for these reasons:

He is the evil we know and know what to expect
Things will quicken which will hopefully wake up more people
I am tired of playing the "is it go time yet?" game...

Or I could just stay at "home" and not vote at the ballot box and prepare the other kind of box more...
"A GREAT CONTRADICTION IS THE BELIEF IN STATES RIGHTS WHILE NOT SUPPORTING THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL."  - Me
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Offline EJR914

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2012, 09:14:20 PM »
It bothers me that so many people in the blogosphere who claim to be liberty-minded are making statements like "if you vote for Romney then you're no better than Obama!" James Yeager, in his latest video supporting Gary Johnson, stated that those who vote for Romney or Obama are "treasonists." (For the record, I didn't even known Johnson had made it to the national ballot. The same thing happened to me with Ron Paul in '08)

While I don't believe calling people who at least in their words seem to believe in economic and social freedoms, treasonous, will help to persuade them to vote Gary Johnson, if you say you are for economic and social freedoms, and then vote for scum like Mitt Romney, then yeah, you are being treasonous to the freedom the founders gave us at the beginning of this country, and to your own ideas that you say you hold dear to your heart.  Its not going to win anybody over with this type of a stance, but it is at least logically an intellectually honest.  Voting for Mitt Romney is continuing this country down the exact same path it is heading down right now under Obama, the differences in the two are so small, they aren't even worth discussing, to be honest. 

Offline Reaver

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2012, 09:24:27 PM »
I view things almost the same way. The only difference is if you vote for Obama you've committed treason. Romdouche hasn't committed treason yet, he's just an asshole.
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CrystalHunter1989

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2012, 09:31:30 PM »
I can't believe I got a +1 out of this.

Offline Kentactic

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2012, 09:44:35 PM »
EJR, if your state was a swing state and your single vote for L could mean an Obama win would you still vote L ?
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Offline Outonowhere

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2012, 10:12:46 PM »
I view things almost the same way. The only difference is if you vote for Obama you've committed treason. Romdouche hasn't committed treason yet, he's just an asshole.

That is like saying that we will punish the teacher that is raping a student right now but we will give this other guy a chance to be teacher even though he has raped recently, just not at the moment.

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"A GREAT CONTRADICTION IS THE BELIEF IN STATES RIGHTS WHILE NOT SUPPORTING THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL."  - Me
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Offline Outonowhere

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2012, 10:13:44 PM »
Obama = Tyranny

Romney = At most kicking the can down a short road to Tyranny

Johnson = A chance
"A GREAT CONTRADICTION IS THE BELIEF IN STATES RIGHTS WHILE NOT SUPPORTING THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL."  - Me
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Offline Reaver

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2012, 10:37:58 PM »
I view things almost the same way. The only difference is if you vote for Obama you've committed treason. Romdouche hasn't committed treason yet, he's just an asshole.

That is like saying that we will punish the teacher that is raping a student right now but we will give this other guy a chance to be teacher even though he has raped recently, just not at the moment.

 [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at


but, he hasn't rapped before.

There is a big difference between banning firearms and NDAA

One is literally an act of treason. The other is just a dick head move.
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Offline Outonowhere

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2012, 11:22:25 PM »
I view things almost the same way. The only difference is if you vote for Obama you've committed treason. Romdouche hasn't committed treason yet, he's just an asshole.

That is like saying that we will punish the teacher that is raping a student right now but we will give this other guy a chance to be teacher even though he has raped recently, just not at the moment.

 [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at


but, he hasn't rapped before.

There is a big difference between banning firearms and NDAA

One is literally an act of treason. The other is just a dick head move.


Come up for air and check this out...

Sooooo there is a difference between erasing the 2nd amendment... and just erasing the 1st, 4th and 5th?  Do you support the NDAA?  Do you believe that when Barry said that he would not sign, he wouldn't?  Or that when he said he wouldn't use it that he won't?  Do you actually believe a man saying he will walk back such things when his PAST PERFORMANCE as well as current attributes are nearly parallel to his opponent?

Maybe I should put it like this so you will understand.  The difference between the two is one is a shot to the chest with and the other to the gut close range.  End result is the same, just different methods of achieving it.
"A GREAT CONTRADICTION IS THE BELIEF IN STATES RIGHTS WHILE NOT SUPPORTING THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL."  - Me
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Offline crudos

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2012, 11:40:45 PM »
True liberty is taking that first step outside the well-worn path and voting with pride in your nation, a heart of freedom, and in good conscience. If Romney stirs that in you, then please vote for him. If your only voting to get rid of the other guy, our nation has failed in the endeavor of liberty and freedom.

Offline EJR914

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2012, 11:41:59 PM »
EJR, if your state was a swing state and your single vote for L could mean an Obama win would you still vote L ?

Is Romney the Republican candidate?  Then yeah, because Romney is that big of a lying scumbag douchebag.  I don't care what State you were in, you don't do more Socialism, and an Assault Weapons ban.  Those are the two worst things he could have done, IMHO.  THE WORST. 

He's literally one of the WORST Republican candidates the party and supporters could have put up for election to be honest.  He's like a golden turd.  He looks good on the outside, like a Ken doll from Ken and Barbie, but he is absolute a sack of shit on the inside.  He's so close to Obama I can hardly tell the difference between their two policies, so yeah, I'd still vote Libertarian.

Get a more libertarian leaning candidate in the Republican slot, and yeah, now you're talking about a difficult decision in a swing State.

This decision right here, this one right here in this election, is no decision for me at all.  I won't lose one wink of sleep over it.  Not one.  My conscious would be clear, no matter what State I was in, to be honest.  I understand for others, its literally a question of IDENTITY and REALITY, but I say fuck that shit, leave that pride and ego behind, and look at this objectively from the FACTS, from the actual reality.

Offline EJR914

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2012, 11:43:59 PM »
I view things almost the same way. The only difference is if you vote for Obama you've committed treason. Romdouche hasn't committed treason yet, he's just an asshole.

That is like saying that we will punish the teacher that is raping a student right now but we will give this other guy a chance to be teacher even though he has raped recently, just not at the moment.

 [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at


but, he hasn't rapped before.

There is a big difference between banning firearms and NDAA

One is literally an act of treason. The other is just a dick head move.


Banning firearms is treason, IMHO.  Reagan committed treason as well.  The second amendment doesn't have a BUT in there anyway.  Shall NOT be infringed.  PERIOD. 

NDAA is definitely treason against the 5th amendment.  Obama.

Bush, Patriot Act 4th amendment got destroyed, Treason.

Offline EJR914

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2012, 11:45:03 PM »
True liberty is taking that first step outside the well-worn path and voting with pride in your nation, a heart of freedom, and in good conscience. If Romney stirs that in you, then please vote for him. If your only voting to get rid of the other guy, our nation has failed in the endeavor of liberty and freedom.


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Offline Reaver

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2012, 11:50:02 PM »
I view things almost the same way. The only difference is if you vote for Obama you've committed treason. Romdouche hasn't committed treason yet, he's just an asshole.

That is like saying that we will punish the teacher that is raping a student right now but we will give this other guy a chance to be teacher even though he has raped recently, just not at the moment.

 [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at


but, he hasn't rapped before.

There is a big difference between banning firearms and NDAA

One is literally an act of treason. The other is just a dick head move.


Banning firearms is treason, IMHO.  Reagan committed treason as well.  The second amendment doesn't have a BUT in there anyway.  Shall NOT be infringed.  PERIOD. 

NDAA is definitely treason against the 5th amendment.  Obama.

Bush, Patriot Act 4th amendment got destroyed, Treason.


Thank you... and OONW you can eat a dick sir. You don't have to " Put anything so I can understand it "

You have no idea what I'm capable of. So don't even try to judge.

And that goes for everyone.

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Offline JohnyMac

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2012, 11:53:15 PM »
EJR & OONW,
why are you guys so angry? Some of the things you have written are way over the top. I am not treasonous...I am what I am and are looking at what we have... What is being offered and than making a decision.

If you want change, than work within the system to make a change. Are any of you running for office? Are any of you working with a political group to make nonviolent change? I don't know I am just asking.

People make change by grasping responsibility and leading within a pre-set list of parameters which are understood and given.

You want change that Obama or Romney won't give, then you need to start it by running for office in your local communities as it will not be handed to you.

Are you doing more than putting Gary Jonson yard signs up on your yard? If not than get with the program and start knocking on doors and working towards the change you want. If you don't do it this election cycle than start November 7th, 2012 working towards the future you want.

Gee-wilakers.......


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Offline EJR914

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2012, 12:14:42 AM »
If a person says they are for economic and social freedoms and then votes for Mitt Romney, know what he did in MA as governor, they are betraying themselves and their principles and heart, and I would say true freedom and liberty do not live in your heart.

If Romney represents what is really in your heart, then by all means vote for him, with a free and clear conscience.

Yes, I've worked in the Libertarian party like a mad dog. 

I can't really even fucking walk right now, and have no money to fix it right now, and I'm working TWO FUCKING jobs rights now, and dealing with a needy wife and I have a 2.5 daughter.  Don't fucking judge me.

hjmoosejaw

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2012, 12:15:49 AM »
New Hampshire is an important state this time. (more than usual) They said the other day that Romney and Obama were tied at 47% each. Johnson had 2%. When asked of the Johnson supporters, who they would vote for if Johnson wasn't in it, they overwhelmingly said Romney. I've said all along that Romney, I suspect, knows that Johnson has loyal supporters, and I imagine that he accepts that. While Romney accepts that, Obama counts on that. 

Offline EJR914

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2012, 12:18:41 AM »
Just so you know, this LIE that Libertarians JUST take votes away from the Republican candidate is absolute BULLSHIT, I hope ya'll know that shit.  I'm tired of hearing that lie thrown around and repeated over and over and over again.  Gary Johnson will take plenty of votes away from Obama this time around.  I personally know about a dozen Obama voters that are voting for Johnson here, MUCH more so than Republicans.  I don't know ONE Republican who voted for Bush or McCain last time that are voting for Johnson.  Its absolute propaganda, parroted bullshit.

Offline Outonowhere

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2012, 12:30:53 AM »
Funniest thing I have read all night, JM!!!  Work WITHIN the system!  If the system were a game of chess, the PtB/their candidates are the moderators, they can change the rules and overlook infractions as THEY see fit and limit what pieces you are allowed to play with while using whatever they want, however they want and however many times they want.  You would get more change out of "the system" by going to your local politifool station and banging your head against the wall screaming "can't we all just get along"!  If Gary Johnson has absolutely NO chance of winning (which my belief is it is a rigged game so he hasn't a chance) then THERE IS NO CHOICE, ONLY THE ILLUSION OF CHOICE. 

Look at that list of people who are on the ballot in at least one state, some in almost all, and tell me why you have not heard about them?  When was the last time you heard about the green party and their stance on the important subjects of the day?  Or the peace and freedom party?  Or the reform party?  Because you are not supposed to know that there are more than 2 candidates for the office most on high in our gov.

"Two party system", "Our two party system", "Left or Right", "Democrat or Republican", "White or Wheat".  WTF about Sourdough!  You only have to choices, regular and lite (which is just mildly watered down regular with a different label).  To choose something else is unAmerican!  If you are not in the system you are an enemy of the system!  If you are not within the system your vote, your opinion, your rights don't matter.  Make your lives (and that of the state) easier and stay within the system!  It will all work out in the end.
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Offline Outonowhere

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2012, 12:34:42 AM »
New Hampshire is an important state this time. (more than usual) They said the other day that Romney and Obama were tied at 47% each. Johnson had 2%. When asked of the Johnson supporters, who they would vote for if Johnson wasn't in it, they overwhelmingly said Romney. I've said all along that Romney, I suspect, knows that Johnson has loyal supporters, and I imagine that he accepts that. While Romney accepts that, Obama counts on that. 

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The numbers don't lie...





But the people who come up with the numbers do!  :))
And ignore the fact that the vote counting will be handled by a Spanish company with ties to...

Mr. George "I get off on destroying sovereign nations" Soros.
"A GREAT CONTRADICTION IS THE BELIEF IN STATES RIGHTS WHILE NOT SUPPORTING THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL."  - Me
Han shot first!

hjmoosejaw

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2012, 12:49:45 AM »
Just so you know, this LIE that Libertarians JUST take votes away from the Republican candidate is absolute BULLSHIT, I hope ya'll know that shit.  I'm tired of hearing that lie thrown around and repeated over and over and over again.  Gary Johnson will take plenty of votes away from Obama this time around.  I personally know about a dozen Obama voters that are voting for Johnson here, MUCH more so than Republicans.  I don't know ONE Republican who voted for Bush or McCain last time that are voting for Johnson.  Its absolute propaganda, parroted bullshit.

That just tells me that they don't want to screw up and vote for the sock monkey again, and they definitely don't want to vote Republican. But, they still want to participate by voting, and they figure Johnson is a safe vote. Don't get me wrong, I admire Johnson supporter's convictions. While Johnson wasn't my first choice, neither was Romney. I despise Obama, and would about rather eat dogshit than see him voted in again.   

Offline EJR914

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2012, 08:06:35 AM »
I understand, just as long as you know that voting Romney in won't save us, it will just keep us going down the same path.

Has anyone else noticed that it seems the slightly older crowd, say 35, or 40 and above seems to have a much tougher time of breaking the mold, doing the SAME exact same thing they have been doing for almost 20 years, while the younger guys are more willing to look at the facts and adapt on the fly?

I've been noticing this trend over the past 5 years, what is with it?

Can't teach an old dog new tricks?  I really want to get to the bottom of it.

Is it that they don't want to FEEL like an outcast, to FEEL ashamed, when they tell people they broke set and voted for a Libertarian, just what is it?

Offline Outonowhere

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Re: I Grow Weary
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2012, 08:44:09 AM »
JM,

I cannot speak for EJR but I will answer your question.  Why am I so angry?

For YEARS I have been doing what I can to wake people up to the corruption of the system that has all but rotted away what thread of our liberties remain.  I have seen good, honest and TRULY patriotic men stand up and help people, give them direction and inspiration.  And I watched them outcast, lies cast about them, them be persecuted by the ignorant and lose EVERYTHING save the breathe from their lungs.  I have had family, friends and coworkers agree with the points I make but still look at me as the odd guy out.  I have had people act patriotic and gung ho about saving the Republic from the comfort of cushy chair, only to have those same people make excuse after excuse why they then cannot or will not do even the simplest of tasks.  I go about the days seeing the sheep stumble around in a daze, only able to parrot the main stream media when I bring up a topic of importance.  Or I see them push their head further into the sand as if doing so will make it all go away and keep them safe.

I am tired of hearing all of this defeatist bull about how voting for the person you truly support based on principle, whether you think he can win or not, is throwing your vote away.  How voting for R instead of D is the only way to save our liberties.  If everyone has this attitude, then yes, your vote will be thrown away.  But because others did not have the fortitude to stand for what they truly believe in, not because you were one of them.

I am a "young" man and I wish to leave a land for my children and their children that will be even more free and more prosperous than the one I am living in today.  This battle is NOT just about us, but what we want to leave to our offspring.  And who wants to grow old being supported by the state until such time as they deem you unfit for your needed medical treatment?  Or have to work into your 80's and 90's, not because you want to but because that is the only way you can afford to live.

So yes, I AM angry, I AM frustrated, I AM tired, and I AM in fear for my Republic, to which I swore an oath of allegiance.  The time for being soft spoken about such things has past.  We are mere WEEKS away from the most important presidential election of any of our lives and yet things still plug along like they had.  So if you want to vote for Mitt because you think Johnson can't win then go ahead and just check that box next to Barry's name.  Because at least with him we KNOW how drastic he wants to move "Forward" and maybe it will wake more people up in the process.
"A GREAT CONTRADICTION IS THE BELIEF IN STATES RIGHTS WHILE NOT SUPPORTING THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL."  - Me
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