Interesting take on the Bundy/rancher thing

[Well-Prepared Witch]

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/25394421/the-americans-with-charlie-leduff-this-land-is-our-land#axzz30zeQCsac

I know Fox is probably doing it because they can throw stones at Harry Reid, however, it is quite interesting.  It's a different perspective on the land issues, with people who have a much more reasonable claim on the land than a rich rancher.  It also points out an interesting (IF true - no sources were cited) connection between Reid and the people who took some of that Nevada land.

(Please note - I haven't watched the additional "bonus" videos at the bottom.  I haven't a clue what they're about or whether I'd agree with or recommend them.  I just saw the main segment on tv tonight as our local Fox affiliate is the only channel with 10 o'clock news.)

[Kentactic]

Im unable to watch that video on my phone...

[Kentactic]

For the direct YouTube video:

http://youtu.be/weIz6nR5j_U

[Kentactic]

First of all Cliven is not rich. He seems to get by but hes by no means rich. Him and his family lives in an adobe house for example. Your average American middle class home makes his look like 3rd world middle class.

Cliven continues to keep my support. The man said exactly what I would say if I bought a home or land and the indians who originally claimed the land, knocked on my door and wanted it back. First of all id feel obligated to at a minimum sell my home to them at fair market value at their request. But I would certainly entertain lesser offers as they should not have to buy land they already own. I think they would understand losing their land by force to another and would be willing to negotiate so that me and my family aren't out on our asses.

That video attempted to make Cliven look like a fool that dosent realize he has no rightful claim to the land. But even in the two seconds they let him talk it showed he was well aware of the indians misfortune, that they had claim to his land and that he would certainly entertain returning it to them if the situation presented itself.

Long story short no Indian has knocked on his door.

In addition to all that let me point out that there are moral rules involved with claiming land. Upon request of a tribe to return the land to them it would be fair to look into their prior history of use of the land. A tribe of 50 cannot claim 10% of CA for a random example. They cannot put that much land to use. Simply laying eyes on a piece of land and claiming dibs, does not give you true ownership.

[Well-Prepared Witch]

"Simply laying eyes on a piece of land and claiming dibs, does not give you true ownership."

True, so why does Bundy think he can own the public land that belongs to all of us?  Why does he think he can graze his cattle on public land with no consequences? 

As an aside, here is the perspective from which I view Bundy.
http://americablog.com/2014/04/cliven-bundy-seditious-liar-patriot.html

[Kentactic]

WPW, Show me one single quote of Mr. Cliven Bundy where he says that he thinks he owns public land. You said it, now show me where you got the information. Cliven has said over and over, that he will gladly pay the exact same grazing fees if the land is turned over to its rightful owner(the state) and they wish for him to pay fees to graze. That article you linked is by a writer that thinks the constitution is "far out there".

From the article:

"He claims there is no such thing as federally-owned land and that there is no Constitutional basis for the Interior Department or the BLM. Yes, he’s that far out there."

If the guy would take two seconds and read a paragraph in the constitution he would know that Cliven is correct. The US Constitution is very clear on the amount of land the Federal government can own and for what purposes. The writer put words in Clivens mouth regarding "no such thing" but its not far off.

Article I, Section 8, US Constitution:

" To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And"

Does the BLM fall into this 10 square mile area and are they using this land for the listed "needful buildings"?

They arent even building a damn building. They are likely in the milti millions of square miles aswell(24% of America).


Its situations like this that show how badly brainwashed people truely are. They will fight for their oppressors at every turn despite being clearly in the wrong.

Listen real good here. This is why Cliven is doing this. Cliven Bundy is fighting for YOUR rights. He is trying to get the state of NV their land back. Hopefully with that other states will get their land back. This is a totally selfless cause. He is risking his and his entire families lives for you to be less oppressed by your federal government. That is the ONLY reason hes doing this. He might win tomorrow and the state says "yeah you owe us double what the feds wanted", AND HED PAY IT WITH A SMILE.

[Well-Prepared Witch]

What about his BS "ancestral rights" comments? 

“My forefathers,” he has said, “have been up and down the Virgin Valley here ever since 1877. All these rights that I claim have been created through pre-emptive rights and beneficial use of the forage and the water and the access and range improvements.”

Source: http://www.thenation.com/article/179561/cliven-bundys-ancestral-rights

That sure sounds like he's claiming ownership, and on false grounds no less.


ETA: He's NOT fighting for MY rights.  He's fighting for the right to not pay taxes, to not pay grazing fees, to not care about the environment and to not take whatever steps possible to shepherd the environment in what will become even more trying times.  He does not and never will represent ME, so please do not tell me he's fighting for me.  I disapprove very much of what he's doing.

[Reaver]

First of all Cliven is not rich. He seems to get by but hes by no means rich. Him and his family lives in an adobe house for example. Your average American middle class home makes his look like 3rd world middle class.

Cliven continues to keep my support. The man said exactly what I would say if I bought a home or land and the indians who originally claimed the land, knocked on my door and wanted it back. First of all id feel obligated to at a minimum sell my home to them at fair market value at their request. But I would certainly entertain lesser offers as they should not have to buy land they already own. I think they would understand losing their land by force to another and would be willing to negotiate so that me and my family aren't out on our asses.

That video attempted to make Cliven look like a fool that dosent realize he has no rightful claim to the land. But even in the two seconds they let him talk it showed he was well aware of the indians misfortune, that they had claim to his land and that he would certainly entertain returning it to them if the situation presented itself.

Long story short no Indian has knocked on his door.

In addition to all that let me point out that there are moral rules involved with claiming land. Upon request of a tribe to return the land to them it would be fair to look into their prior history of use of the land. A tribe of 50 cannot claim 10% of CA for a random example. They cannot put that much land to use. Simply laying eyes on a piece of land and claiming dibs, does not give you true ownership.

OK Mr. Yeager......I mean mean kenny. Srry.

[Kentactic]

WPW, In that quote he is simply setting the stage. He is explaining that even if the constitution didn't exist hes got some rights to the land. They worked it and improved it. When dealing with people who dont recognize the US Constitution as law I can see the desire to try to reach their brain in other ways. You can clearly see that he does not intend to use that claim because hes already said the Indians supersede his claim in that respect. Technically he has right to the land over the BLM because he has worked and improved the land (how the indians rightfully claim land). So in that respect he does have some claim to the land. Yet he still insists it be returned to the state of NV I.e. the people.

PS I added one of the US Constitution sections in my previous post that makes the BLM criminals.

[Kentactic]

First of all Cliven is not rich. He seems to get by but hes by no means rich. Him and his family lives in an adobe house for example. Your average American middle class home makes his look like 3rd world middle class.

Cliven continues to keep my support. The man said exactly what I would say if I bought a home or land and the indians who originally claimed the land, knocked on my door and wanted it back. First of all id feel obligated to at a minimum sell my home to them at fair market value at their request. But I would certainly entertain lesser offers as they should not have to buy land they already own. I think they would understand losing their land by force to another and would be willing to negotiate so that me and my family aren't out on our asses.

That video attempted to make Cliven look like a fool that dosent realize he has no rightful claim to the land. But even in the two seconds they let him talk it showed he was well aware of the indians misfortune, that they had claim to his land and that he would certainly entertain returning it to them if the situation presented itself.

Long story short no Indian has knocked on his door.

In addition to all that let me point out that there are moral rules involved with claiming land. Upon request of a tribe to return the land to them it would be fair to look into their prior history of use of the land. A tribe of 50 cannot claim 10% of CA for a random example. They cannot put that much land to use. Simply laying eyes on a piece of land and claiming dibs, does not give you true ownership.

OK Mr. Yeager......I mean mean kenny. Srry.

Oh... because I used his home example.... I knew you liked yeager....  crazy how two guys that went to the same place and had similar real world experiences end up with similar views.

Now ive been exposed as not having thought of everything myself that ive ever spoken ahhh! Lol. I swear I invented the English language. My parents picked it up from me, hanging around me as a child. It just spread like wild fire from there.

[Kentactic]

ETA: He's NOT fighting for MY rights.  He's fighting for the right to not pay taxes, to not pay grazing fees, to not care about the environment and to not take whatever steps possible to shepherd the environment in what will become even more trying times.  He does not and never will represent ME, so please do not tell me he's fighting for me.  I disapprove very much of what he's doing.

He is fighting for your rights whether or not you choose to use them. Just like a liberal claims fighting for the 2A is not fighting for their rights. It absolutely is. They are free to not use their rights though.

PS the environment thing is total BS. dont you find it odd that every single piece of BLM land seems to be protecting this animal or that? Tortoises, Kangaroo rats, Frogs, Condors, Delta smelt etc etc. Its just the way they take control of the land. Its blatantly obvious.

The desert tortoise funds fell off so they cant even keep the lab open. They are killing thousands of them intentionally because they aren't fit to be released into the wild. Yet the BLM agents brought 300 trucks and agents, a helicopter and all sorts of crap and spent several million dollars to round up cattle, in defense of the desert tortoise? The desert tortoise lab only needed 2 million to keep running.... save the environment BS for the sheep.

[rah45]

ETA: He's NOT fighting for MY rights.  He's fighting for the right to not pay taxes, to not pay grazing fees, to not care about the environment and to not take whatever steps possible to shepherd the environment in what will become even more trying times.  He does not and never will represent ME, so please do not tell me he's fighting for me.  I disapprove very much of what he's doing.

He is fighting for your rights whether or not you choose to use them. Just like a liberal claims fighting for the 2A is not fighting for their rights. It absolutely is. They are free to not use their rights though.

PS the environment thing is total BS. dont you find it odd that every single piece of BLM land seems to be protecting this animal or that? Tortoises, Kangaroo rats, Frogs, Condors, Delta smelt etc etc. Its just the way they take control of the land. Its blatantly obvious.

The desert tortoise funds fell off so they cant even keep the lab open. They are killing thousands of them intentionally because they aren't fit to be released into the wild. Yet the BLM agents brought 300 trucks and agents, a helicopter and all sorts of crap and spent several million dollars to round up cattle, in defense of the desert tortoise? The desert tortoise lab only needed 2 million to keep running.... save the environment BS for the sheep.

I have to say, I'm not getting into this particular argument, but that has to be in my top ten list of rebuttals since Mrlockandload.

[DMCakhunter]

Here is an article on Fox about the FBI reviewing the protesters.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/09/fbi-investigating-bundy-ranch-showdown-clark-county-sheriff-officials-say/

[Kentactic]

I saw that too DMC. I know one guy who is first on their list.... I wish I could get in contact with him without helping the bad guys do the same. He was a real nice guy.

[Reaver]

  I love messing with my shotgun partner.

[Kentactic]

I love messing with my shotgun partner.

Lol I know you do.

[JohnyMac]

The funny thing is...The supposed sniper was using a AK. I don't get the sniper accusation? 

[Kentactic]

The funny thing is...The supposed sniper was using a AK. I don't get the sniper accusation? 

Someone called him a sniper?

[rah45]

That's a good thing, mislabeled him. When they charge him, the prosecution will lose the case on a technicality. :-D

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[crudos]

The funny thing is...The supposed sniper was using a AK. I don't get the sniper accusation? 

Someone called him a sniper?

The MSM wouldn't know a sniper from a snipe, and have proved that over and over again in this case.