This is why you always carry and carry a serious weapon

[APX808]

I like Colombo's approach to stay in the highway, you know bikes will catch you as soon as you step out of it because city traffic will inevitably block you.
With the wife calling 911 she could arrange for a patrol to get into the highway, or maybe wait for him in some ramp.

Too bad the video is cut and we can't see how it ends, for sure being in the SUV guy shoes at that moment  must have sucked.

[thatGuy]

Dude got pushed off the highway because he is a pussy, there is no way you could have dictated where I drove my Range Rover with a street bike.

Colombo is dead on, this guys only defense was his mobility and leaving the highway to be bogged down in traffic could have become a fatal mistake when swarmed by an advisory with the level of mobility that a street bike affords. He should have had his wife running a play by play to the cops while trucking down the road at a reasonable speed.

[USMC0331]

You all assume the hwy will remain free flowing.  There were more than the reported 30 bikers on the HWY, looks like they didn't all follow him off it but possibly were catching up when the guy out his helmet into the rig .

Hindsight is 20/20, if he got off and drive to a police station without trAffic blocking him would you still say the best approach was to stay on the HWY?

[APX808]

There is no way a car can reach a police station in a big city without crossing a red light or some other vehicle getting in the middle and blocking him.

[thatGuy]

They did follow him off the highway, if you pay close attention to the jackets of the riders you will see that the core of the group as well as the person filming were directing the crowd to follow.

So you say to leave the highway because there is no assurance that it will keep flowing and in the same breath advocate getting off the highway where you are certain to be bogged down because you may get bogged down on the highway?

A better educated man than me would know the name of that failing form of logic.

[USMC0331]

My point is that you do not know either is more "flowing " than the other if you are the driver. You know now having 20/20 hindsight but look at it from his perspective at the time.

Do you stay on the HWY and keep doing the same thing or try to get off and try to slow down the momentum of the chase.

If want to attempt to break the chase response that they are stuck in.

He was already stopped once after the initial incident on the HWY, I'd take my chances of getting off as he did also.

It's easy to say "look he made a bad choice, see how he got stuck in traffic when he left the HWY?" 

I'll ask the question again, if they had surrounded him on the HWY a second time at slow traffic (like when the door was opened) and then beat him, would you have said it was good to stay on the HWY?

It was time to change the OODA and he did, otherwise you are stuck in the same chase response.

[JohnyMac]

I agree with Sledges assessment. He needed a "Hows that hope & change working out for you" or "Impeach Obama" bumper sticker on his Rover. I do and regularly receive a thumbs up from many motorists including bikers.

Not this trip but the last trip to the cabin: We were passed by 5 Harley riders with Hell's Angles colors on. They gave MrsMac and I a thumbs up as they passed us.

They either likes the truck, MrsMac or my stickers...Maybe all three. 

Bottom-line, the guy was a weeny traveling in NYC who did some typical sheeple things. He needs to be awarded one of those Darwin awards.

[thatGuy]

La riots Truck Driver.

L.A. Riots

I survived the L.A. Riots in L.A., intersections and pissed off people don't mix.

DVC you are advocating that someone else do exactly what dude did and even with all the proof that it was a bad idea you continue to advocate for it... why?

[USMC0331]

thatGuy,
I made my point of why I would get off the hwy already.  We will have to agree to disagree.  I will admit that I'm looking at it from my perspective though as an armed person, but extending a chase never ends well unless you are O.J.

Intersections do not = LA Riots, bad analogy.  Intersections also can be used to created space...  you don't have to wait for the light to change. 

I'm not advocating running reds without looking either, LEO does it all the time safely and so can you, will everyone following on a bike do the same also?

PS> I like MV's response... run them all over, kill them all!

[thatGuy]

No but you continue to make your argument from a position of superiority, what do you know that you aren't telling us?

[USMC0331]

No but you continue to make your argument from a position of superiority, what do you know that you aren't telling us?

No superiority, I'm just confident in my decision to exit.  I might be completely off track but making a decision and sticking with it is crucial to preventing freeze.  I just see more options being available by getting off a single track road that has vehicles doing higher rates of speed.

I've not seen an argument presented yet that is swaying me.  It's all theory until you are in the driver's seat.

[USMC0331]

Just found this...

Lien?s first encounter with the bikers shows a group of them taking off their helmets and denting the side of Lien?s SUV, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly told The Post. A few other riders slashed the tires. Lien apparently panicked and stepped on the gas. He was surrounded at the time and slammed into a few of the riders, the report said.

The bikers, about 30 or so, chased Lien more than 50 blocks on the West Side Highway, which was recorded on a 6-plus-minute video later posted on YouTube. Lien, however, was driving with damaged tires and was forced to turn off at W. 178th St. in Washington Heights, where the assault occurred, the report said.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/01/new-york-man-celebrating-first-anniversary-with-wife-child-left-for-dead-after/

[Colombo]

Interesting update.

Analysis and after action review here are worthwhile for what lessons we gain. The important thing to take from this thread is any tactical wisdom we can filter and put away in our own bag of tricks. Looking at the good quality video posted by special-K particularly at the 5:04 point of second stop and assault is where I believe the driver went into flight mode and lost any capability of acting tactically. The choice of avoiding the clear road to the upper deck of the George Washington bridge was a missed opportunity in my opinion, but again that is opinion based on what I know would be the reaction of the public and law enforcement of the new york / new jersey area to a Mad Max movie scene on an landmark/target. I believe the driver no longer had anything resembling an ODAA loop from the point his door was opened (unlocked? ) and was simply reacting to the bikers actions. I'd give him credit for continuing to drive the vehicle IF I believed he wasn't just running on fear. I never saw him threaten with or use the vehicle as a weapon, he loses more credit with me for that also.

Just for info, the google point that matches his position at the time I mentioned above https://maps.google.com/?ll=40.846715,-73.943076&spn=0.000527,0.001206&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=40.846715,-73.943076&panoid=9Q8iKS3p7TcTm1t2wW37IA&cbp=12,16.95,,0,0

[USMC0331]

OODA... he observed the door being opened, orientated the vehicle to left, decided to flee, hit the gas pedal.

Has anyone seen anything that says he even knew where he was?  A local?

[Deathstyle]

So appearently even if you can fit a police officer in your pocket so one can with you at all times, it wont matter because they still wont do shit. 

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/undercover-nypd-officer-stood-watched-father-get-beaten-biker-gang/#axzz2gnjQV200

[Currahee]

second guessing the actions of a person from a news story or you tube vid may be fun, but it isn't very reliable because we have neither all the details or the situational awareness.

It is always important to view these stories because it gives us information and scenarios for the mental "war gaming" that you should always be doing.

I will admit to having never seriously considered the possibility of more than a dozen bikers trying to run me off the road. At least not since the last time I was watching Mad Max.

Things I consider important...

#1 maintain mobility as long as possible

#2 get on 911 ASAP - only chance of diffusing the situation without a grand jury questioning your actions

#3 Weapon out and ready - under normal circumstances I need to either retrieve my pistol from the in car safe (sad situation when on my way to work) or undo my seatbelt (which I would hate to be doing in the middle of a car chase)

#4 Be aware of the route ahead of you- think about what would slow you down or if their is a police station etc- obviously pretty hard in unfamiliar territory

[USMC0331]

I think Currahee hit the takeaways from the incident.

I'd add the importance of drilling that drilling that seatbelted draw stroke while moving (most do it static) but would not draw until you are ready to shoot or threaten and then holster up (more practice) as driving one handed is not goo or loosing it on the floorboard.

Of course letting your ego get in the way instead of allowing the bikers to violate your rights to the road might be the igniter for the whole incident.

Not saying that is what happened here, but if a gang of bikers started to slow me down Id let then and get away from them out the back door if I could an was thinking clearly.

Avoidance is always the best option

[Deathstyle]

http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/update-nypd-undercover-officer-involved-biker-gang-violence-father/#axzz2h47Bcl8v


Supposedly the NY Post is reporting that there were 6 UC cops in the biker gang and one of them took part in the beating.

[APX808]

More about the undercover cop and a liveleak video of the driver getting kicked on the floor.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57606600/nypd-undercover-officer-arrested-in-suv-motorcycle-gang-attack/