European Gun Laws

[Kbop]

it would be interesting to compare and contrast weapon control laws around the world and see their effects.

It seems to me that the prohibition era -

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a time in the United States of America during which it was illegal to make, sell or consume alcohol

- should have taught us, the USA at least, a lesson.  During that time, violence, cost of alcohol and actual use went up.  Would weapons restrictions or any governmental restrictions force or cause the same effect?  I find it very informative that the cost of high THC cannabis has gone down in the US state of Colorado (they have recently legalized recreational use of cannabis).  Colorado's tourist industry has gone up exponentially - the cannabis industry grossed 100M USD last year.

Why do so many people assume that gun control would drive weapons out of our society?  I believe it would drive them underground into the black market and disarm law abiding people.  I don't understand how this protects us.  even the recent well publicized shootings occurred outside the currently existing laws.  The weapons were acquired in an illegal manner in most cases.  In one case the person attacked the chosen location partially because he knew CC was illegal in that location.  The situation in France resulted in the call up of a large number of military types and sending them off on a terrorist hunt - inside the borders of their own country.

I have to admit - even living in Europe for several years, I knew they had strict gun control laws but I never gave it much thought.  After the several French incidents I started looking into it and found out they have a thriving black market in some countries.

  this video if from a fairly liberal organization - trigger alert
I ran across this trolling the interwebs.  It was a starting point.

Does Gun Control In Europe Work?

[JohnyMac]

Interesting Kbop.

Can you give the forum a short history of your time in EU?

[gadget99]

Since the UK pretty much disarmed the public. The violent crime rate has stayed I believe at the same levels.

The mode has just shifted. Knives are the new firearm in this now. That and something I actually found very disturbing when I got here.

There is quite a bit of the plain old beating someone to death in evidence.

The reason I was shocked is that  in the case of a firearm or knife. The investment of time is pretty small. It does not take much time to pull a trigger. A split second of madness is all it takes.

Yet to beat someone to death requires a huge investment. No split second stuff there.

I find it disturbing that someone would maintain their rage and invest physical effort to beat someone to death. That take time.

Now that is a scary person.

[Kbop]

Can you give the forum a short history of your time in EU?

pretty common story;
I was stationed in Germany in the late 70's and 80's (US Army).  then back again as a contractor for the govies on and off.
Bad Tölz, Pirmasens, Heidelberg, Sinop, Shape.  a few others.  I travelled a lot during that time - I lived on the economy as much as possible

[Kbop]

Gadget99, you speak to my point. 
You outlaw weapons and the scary types don't have to worry any more that the elderly woman in their sights might be packing. 
The police forces are more often employed taking reports and investigating.  The chances that they will be in the right place at the right time to stop a crime may be fair to middling - due to the halo effect and their knowledge of the neighborhood - BUT they can't be everywhere.  I want the muggers to be as afraid of me as I am of them

[JohnyMac]

Thanks Kbop! 

[graynomad]

Pretty much all the same arguments we have here in Oz...oh well. At least we can own most firearms below semi-auto rifles.

[gadget99]

Yep..... Disarm the sheep and the wolves still take them.

[JohnyMac]

I am starting to hear/read rumbling's to loosen gun ownership in some members (Countries) of the EU. Has anybody else been hearing/reading rumbling's from our cousins from across the pond?

[gadget99]

Here in the UK they are tightening the screws big time. No potential for a loosening of the laws at all.

You carry a pocket knife without good reason and your in trouble with the police. A knife with a locking blade is illegal to carry. Mace, pepper spray and stunning guns are illegal also. As a matter of fact, anything that can be used as an offensive weapon is illegal to carry.

Yet you can buy a T72 tank without any trouble other than an extra rating on you drivers license if you want to drive it on the road.

Air rifles and pistols are regulated past a certain power. Yet a supressor for your Legal powered air Rifle is unregulated. As a matter of fact suppressors are completely unregulated.

That's cool though. I got it covered with stuff that is legal to own now and will do us come Shtf.

[JohnyMac]

Being a Yank, I have never understood the fanaticism that the UK takes to any weapon. My dad was a nationalized citizen from Scotland so we would go back to the old country every other year or so while I was growing up. I do not remember many (if any) shooting's while I was there. Stabbing's seemed to be the weapon of choice for the average joe.

I understand that it was emotion that drove the current laws due in part to Hungerford event in '88 or '89 but why does legislation of the continued licensing of firearms exist to it's extreme today? It's not my country so in a way I do not care however I find the fanaticism odd as my cousins think my pro 2A stand is odd I am sure. When they come over for a visit, the first thing on the "to do list" is to go out and shoot my weapons.  Cabela's is also a "must do" day trip. 

 
 

[Kbop]

While traveling in Europe, you can get cognitive whiplash when traveling.
go from one airport where the police have batons and smiles to another where the FAMAS seems to be fashionable to another where you aren't even x-rayed/scanned/groped in security to another where you take at least half an  hour to be pleasantly 'questioned'/screened before you get your boarding pass and then x-rayed and groped.   One of my favorites is a place where you put a 20$ bill in your passport - to ease things along - (forgive the misspelling) called bakshis.
One flight I was on in the 80's - a puddle jumper - had chickens in little cages sitting in the aisle.  I helped load the checked luggage just so we could leave on time.
We're all more or less the same - as humans.  I wonder why this condition of perceived danger to perceived security doesn't reach a 'norm'.  it seems to oscillate over time in all locations at different rates.  I have always been amused at the security in and around airports that never extend past the fence at the end of a runway.  Silly you can drop an aircraft from an errant flock of geese - let alone a ticked off person just outside the perimeter thinking bad thoughts.  Or some suburbanite with a new drone to play with - I wonder how long that will take.

The head in the sand attitude may be as bad as a state of hyper alertness.  Europe seems to encapsulate it all in a small area.

[JohnyMac]

I love your description of the security breaches of airports Kbop.

When I lived in MDR, CA.. The southern exit/entrance to the marina was about 1/2-3/4 mile from LAX's main runway.

Depending on the wind/breeze. Most airplanes land/take off from east to west. Anybody with a shoulder mounted SA Missile could take out a airplane from a freaken row boat. Let alone have a nice launch site camouflaged in a boat right in MDR marina.

Not to mention the state road that goes along the coast from to Playa del Rey down to Manhattan Beach. The road passes under a western bound take-off plane by about 500'.  A heat seeking SAM would work wonders.