Author Topic: The Franchise  (Read 473 times)

gadget9901

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The Franchise
« on: April 25, 2022, 01:14:10 PM »
Some here may have the concern that I may be left leaning. However that is not the case.

I do have a bit of a radical opinion on the state of our country and voting rights.

I do not believe that a citizen should be allowed to vote unless they have served the nation. I think the voting franchise is given to cheaply. We should bring a larger opportunity for national service both militarily and civilly. Volunteer for at least 2 yrs serving the nation and earn the right to vote.

Now I know this will not be popular yet Heinelen got it right in Starship Troopers.

Invest service to your nation and earn the right to vote. That investment would pay dividends with responsible citizen attention to the real world.

Cheers all

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Offline JohnyMac

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Re: The Franchise
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2022, 03:20:06 PM »
I would go with that Gadget but I would like even better only landowners can vote. That was how it was back in the start of our country. I forget when it changed.

Maybe, you have to have served in the military and or owned land.

Just think about it, renters have no skin in the game. 
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Offline grizz

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Re: The Franchise
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2022, 03:35:51 PM »
I would go with that Gadget but I would like even better only landowners can vote. That was how it was back in the start of our country. I forget when it changed.

Maybe, you have to have served in the military and or owned land.

Just think about it, renters have no skin in the game.

WOW?!?!

Renters have no skin in the game?

At what point does it turn into they need to own "X" number of acres or "X" number os square foot per house? Both of these will limit the number of voters to the rich. I know a few people making well over $100k a year and choose to rent or live out of an RV, do they get to vote??

Maybe only business owners should be allowed to vote since they are the ones providing all the jobs?? And they will get one vote per employee?

I've owned many houses in the past and currently I'm a renter, NOT by choice but its better than living on the street.

I would support military service as a requirement to vote IF it wasn't currently teaching woke BS, same as the colleges.
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gadget9901

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Re: The Franchise
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2022, 06:51:46 PM »
Like I said I understood this would be controversial.

Yet let me declare my interest or position on the subject.

I do not like the average civilian in our society. I could almost say I hate them.

Ask any civilian who is responsible for sending me, my brothers and sisters into conflict. The answer you will almost always get is the blame of the political establishment. Yet we live in a society of representative government where the politicians are elected by the people.

I have yet to hear a civilian look at me and claim even partial responsibility for the actions of the political representatives they elected.

I pray for the day that a civilian looks into my eyes and says they take responsibility. I would really respect that and that person represents the population I spent half my life defending.

Make no mistake. I am nothing compared to those I served with.

The 248 Of My brothers I lost in the Gander Newfoundland Crash. Timothy Uderitz that I guarded his body on Gatun dropezone in Panama after his chute didn't open. Countless other lost in the global war on terror. Like Jared Van Aalst who I served with at the Army Marksmanship Unit before he went back to the Ranger Battalion and all the way to Delta before he was killed.

All I want is for the citizens of our country to be worthy of the sacrifices of those we have lost.

Yet if wishes were horses then beggar's would be riding.

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« Last Edit: April 25, 2022, 10:41:36 PM by gadget9901 »

Offline Jarine88

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Re: The Franchise
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2022, 08:14:08 PM »
Service? Maybe. (I?m a Marine veteran.)

Knowledge testing? Definitely. My issue is that too many voters are too stupid to vote. If you can?t pass a civics test or history test, how can you participate in government? 

We also need voter identification for all valid voters!!!!!
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gadget9901

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Re: The Franchise
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2022, 08:37:54 PM »
Service? Maybe. (I?m a Marine veteran.)

Knowledge testing? Definitely. My issue is that too many voters are too stupid to vote. If you can?t pass a civics test or history test, how can you participate in government? 

We also need voter identification for all valid voters!!!!!
Anything that encourages responsibility is good for
Though as I said.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2022, 04:27:43 AM by gadget9901 »

Offline Nemo

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Re: The Franchise
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2022, 08:02:51 AM »
I am somewhat good with the service requirement, but make it mandatory.  As I believe is required in Israel.  As in you graduate high school you do 2 years active duty.

Should you not be desirous or capable of military type service, something along the line of Peace Corp or those other type organizations.  Felons required in civilian type organizations.

As to voting, a test or classes-- No.  But some level of competence must be demonstrable.  You must go register, fill out a form, in English, by hand, with a writing stick, you read yourself and write yourself and answer yourself. 

Not completed by someone else, not pushing buttons on a keyboard or spots on a screen.   Accommodations for serious physically disabled granted.  Mentally disabled to not competent to do registration not so much.

Voting is a serious and important thing.  Some level of difficulty to cast a vote is not unreasonable.

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« Last Edit: April 26, 2022, 08:08:57 AM by Nemo »
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Offline RB in GA

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Re: The Franchise
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2022, 10:06:14 PM »
I also would agree to public service as a condition of voting, though not limited to military service. Not everyone can serve in the military, but they can serve otherwise. Cops? Firefighters? EMT's?  Doctors and nurses? What about them?
 
In what I see as an ideal country, all residents who desired citizenship would serve- and those that didn't would be taxed higher and receive fewer to no government benefits as a result. With those higher taxes being used to fund the citizen activities (which will in turn, benefits everyone eventually- trickle down economics at its best). Felons and repeat misdemeanors would be barred from citizenship. In short, Volunteerism writ large.

Say, just off the cuff here, you were required to serve a week a month.  Same deal as guard call up- you can't be fired from your regular job (if you have one) when your time comes around. You get paid at a determined rate for your time- regardless of what you do (think jury duty here, but a real wage).  You do what is needed, depending on your skills.
Your area needs repaving? Guess what the citizens will be doing this weekend. School needs fixing up? Ditto.  Local park gone to crap? same. Hospital overrun with cases? that too.  Bad part of town needs extra policing? yep.  You might dig ditches, you might be tasked with infrastructure repair, you might watch kids so others can work, you might work in mess hall feeding the other call ups. Hell, you might even work at your regular job if that is what was needed.
In short, a social organization (ideally with a rotating membership to prevent bureaucracy from rearing its ugly head) to have people go where they are needed. Who decides what gets done? Your community, your county, possibly your state. The citizens decide what problems need to addressed and where. Not some jerk in DC. Not some nameless feds in an alphabet agency.

Something like this also partially addresses some other social issues. Unemployed citizens would get at least one week of work a month-and get fed/housed while doing so. Tansstaafl (Think the old CCC camps).
Immigrants? No issue- if they are willing to serve, willing to invest in this country, let them. If not, no help given.
 
This kinda thing works to some degree already on a very small scale- local barn raisings, church groups, Habitat for Humanity, some MAGS I'm sure.

To make this kinda thing work, large scale, our society would actually have to teach civics and social responsibility in schools. People would have to step up, sacrifice their precious leisure time, and show willingness to both lead and follow. People would have to invest in their society, their community, their kids and grandkids; be willing to teach what you know and be willing to learn as well.

Oh well, its nice to dream a bit



 

Offline Deathstyle

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Re: The Franchise
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2022, 10:37:42 PM »
While Starship Troopers does appeal to me initially where the doers get healthcare they care to pay for and the civilians get shitty state offered healthcare. The system of govt portrayed is still destined for failure. It is open to corruption and infiltration. Not everyone is a ground pounder. The jock was cannon fonder while his nerdy friend got boosted to intelligence and his gf started bangin the nerdy jock in fleet. I think those characters are the type open to embrace state for social justice.

Also our current problems are due the elites, the ppl we loath on a daily basis by seeing them constantly are patsies. Elites would easily infiltrate this military junta and seize control and make sure their children and like minded ppl would avoid the hard jobs.

Tempting but seriously flawed idea to hand over so much power to the state. Been revisiting the Anti-Federalist Papers though.
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gadget9901

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Re: The Franchise
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2022, 05:44:37 AM »
While Starship Troopers does appeal to me initially where the doers get healthcare they care to pay for and the civilians get shitty state offered healthcare. The system of govt portrayed is still destined for failure. It is open to corruption and infiltration. Not everyone is a ground pounder. The jock was cannon fonder while his nerdy friend got boosted to intelligence and his gf started bangin the nerdy jock in fleet. I think those characters are the type open to embrace state for social justice.

Also our current problems are due the elites, the ppl we loath on a daily basis by seeing them constantly are patsies. Elites would easily infiltrate this military junta and seize control and make sure their children and like minded ppl would avoid the hard jobs.

Tempting but seriously flawed idea to hand over so much power to the state. Been revisiting the Anti-Federalist Papers though.
Totally agree there.

Unfortunately the elites are heavily entrenched in society.

Not an easy situation to fix at this time.

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Offline pkveazey

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Re: The Franchise
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2022, 12:16:58 PM »
Holy Moly... I don't know what think about this mandatory thing. It almost sounds Orwellian. I have thoughts of "What about Freedom?". When I was in high school Government Class, we were taught all about what Capitalism, Communism, Facism, Oligarchy, Juntas, etc. were. I just can't go along with mandatory as opposed to voluntary. With that said, my Government teacher told us that in a very small group, let's say 200 people, that Communism was a very good form of government. Anything  larger than that would become the haves and the have nots. The manner in which the Jamestown Colony in 1607 was run was a form of Communism and it worked fairly well. Just remember, Jamestown started out as about 150 people. Hmmm.... Could a Communist/Socialist system work in a MAG. I'm pretty sure it could because MAGS are small and everybody carries a Gun.

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: The Franchise
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2022, 08:58:45 AM »
Great discussion of an interesting topic.  :thumbsUp:
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Offline grizz

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Re: The Franchise
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2022, 11:27:16 AM »
Maybe a better plan is to limit everyone serving in any sort of political arena is limited to 2 terms and they get NO benefits when they leave service. They are required to live by the laws they pass, PERIOD!!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 10:18:20 AM by grizz »
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Offline Deathstyle

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Re: The Franchise
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2022, 03:19:21 PM »
I think Jefferson stated we'd have to fight a civil war every 26yrs or every generation to maintain a free society and purge the statist. Probably true.
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Offline RB in GA

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Re: The Franchise
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2022, 05:16:00 PM »
Quote
Maybe a better plan is to limit everyone serving on any sort of political arena is limited to 2 terms and they get NO benefits when they leave service. They are required to live by the laws they pass, PERIOD!!

That limit should apply to bureaucrats as well. 8 years max, them you gotta go.

Offline Sir John Honeybucket

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Re: The Franchise
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2022, 12:44:54 PM »
I believe it was Kurt Vonigut who suggested that to fill the office of the Presidency, the soon-to-be president should be kidnapped off the street at random , live under barracks conditions, forced to serve eight years, with time-off for good behaviour.  Yes, it's an imposition on that poor fellow's freedom, but it's better than the entinre nation suffering.  The reason for this random method is that those who aspire to high policital office are usually EXACTLY the typesof people you do not want in power and so are disqualified on the grounds that they actually wanted the job.

Vonigut also said: "The hand that stocks the drugstore rules the world."  if only he knew how prescient that is in 2022.


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gadget9901

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Re: The Franchise
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2022, 04:43:01 AM »
Wow... Great input to the discussion all.

The system has current flaws that have developed over time. Discussing them helps us find realistic potential solutions that we can communicate to our fellow citizens.

My initial post was an expression of my unrealistic vision of how to start fixing things.

We have an entrenched rulling class that are operating on self interest with very little focus on service to the nation or people.

Somehow the scales need to be balanced again.

Just remember we are being manipulated by them to take aggressive sides in this. The more divided our populace is. The easier it is to maintain control and power.

Just my thoughts.

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Offline Deathstyle

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Re: The Franchise
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2022, 04:07:02 AM »
Unfortunately I think a collapse would have to occur to rid us of useless moochers and destroy the vote farms. And I think that type of collapse is on its way, however the powers that be are causing it which is concerning.

I can't save everyone so it's out of my hands anyways.


Prepare and make a difference how you can. Just remember, the nail that sticks out, gets the hammer.
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Offline grizz

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Re: The Franchise
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2022, 01:53:12 PM »
Unfortunately I think a collapse would have to occur to rid us of useless moochers and destroy the vote farms. And I think that type of collapse is on its way, however the powers that be are causing it which is concerning.

I can't save everyone so it's out of my hands anyways.


Prepare and make a difference how you can. Just remember, the nail that sticks out, gets the hammer.

The number of hammers is limited, the number of nails is not - they cant get all of them, especially if they all stick out at the same time and come to the aid of other nails as needed...
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