Unchained Preppers

General Category => News & Politics => Topic started by: Skippy00004 on November 19, 2011, 01:23:58 PM

Title: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Skippy00004 on November 19, 2011, 01:23:58 PM
What the fuck?

http://youtu.be/NahrDRxw4yc (http://youtu.be/NahrDRxw4yc)

In video:
     About ten or so protesters are peacefully sitting on the ground, linking arms, refusing to stand.  So a cop walks up and hoses them down with pepper spray like he's watering his plants.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Kentactic on November 19, 2011, 03:10:30 PM
if they were all "resisting arrest" i could see it as justified legally. rather then fight them all to unlink their arms it would be much easier to pepper spray them all and then cuff them one by one. im guessing the cops told them several times what would happen if they didnt comply. 2 sides to every story. but im not on either side here.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Boonedawg on November 19, 2011, 03:27:48 PM
HA! watching hippies get seasoned well always makes my day!
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Veritas on November 19, 2011, 04:09:02 PM
HA! watching hippies get seasoned well always makes my day!


 [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: NOLA556 on November 19, 2011, 04:09:44 PM
here's what I can't get through my head. ok. I don't know where this video was shot, or what the circumstances are for the rest of these protests across the country. but here's my little hypothetical scenario.

IF it's a PUBLIC place (I.E. not Zucotti park where OWS started, that park is privately owned) and Americans are SUPPOSED to have the right to assemble. and assuming this little hypothetical group really is peaceful, no instigators. then why should they have to move just because some cop tells them to? I'm not talking about these goons that want to sit in the middle of the street. the cops are justified in forcing those people to GTFO of the street. but what about these protests that are going on in public parks? how is a cop justified in breaking up the assembly in the first place? and more importantly, how are they justified to use any physical force whatsoever on people who are literally just sitting on the ground in a public place? much less pepperspray the fuck out of them?

I don't sympathize with these people's message. most of them seem to be the epitome of ignorance and the product of leftist propaganda. but IMO they have just as much right to occupy a public space and spew their ignorance as anyone else has. show me where a law is written that justifies cops using physical force just because you don't hop-to and follow every order he barks at you. especially if you're not doing anything illegal in the first place.

some of you guys want to cheer on these cops? go ahead, but don't say I never told you so when it's YOUR ass catching rubber bullets and pepperspray for no fucking reason.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: special-k on November 19, 2011, 04:24:01 PM
100% agreed NOLA.  But the pigs cops will always be able to find some line of "corporate code" (which BTW, is what they are enforcing, not law) to justify their use of force in their little pig cop minds.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: JohnyMac on November 19, 2011, 07:47:47 PM
1) No matter how thinly you slice the baloney there is always two sides- Case in point the video is
    only 48 seconds long.
2) The shoulder patches on the police look like CHP but I have never seen a shield on their chest
    that looks like what I see in the video. Maybe someone from CA. can identify the police.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: APX808 on November 19, 2011, 08:04:24 PM
some of you guys want to cheer on these cops? go ahead, but don't say I never told you so when it's YOUR ass catching rubber bullets and pepperspray for no fucking reason.

Totally agree with you Nola, considering how things are getting fucked up all around the world is extremely plausible that the next guys protesting will be one of us, a government that do not allows manifestations is going in a very, very bad direction.

PS: I have no problem if the cops spray, gas or use as a snare guys causing riots, but people has the constitutional right to gather and manifest whatever the fuck they want, we are talking about constitutional rights being violated here, this is no joke.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Kentactic on November 19, 2011, 08:11:33 PM
"The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guarantees individuals the right of freedom of assembly. Under the Common Law and modern statutes, however, the meeting of three or more persons may constitute an unlawful assembly if the persons have an illegal purpose or if their meeting will breach the public peace of the community. If they actually execute their purpose, they have committed the criminal offense of riot."

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Unlawful+assembly (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Unlawful+assembly)
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Boonedawg on November 19, 2011, 09:32:33 PM
Nola, buddy you'll never catch me out sitting indian style on a sidewalk protesting any thing. I protest with my vote, my money and other ways. Blocking up public walkways/streets does nothing but fuck with folks just trying to make a living and get home. This vid is in Berkley Ca. You'll not find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: mountainredneck2051 on November 19, 2011, 11:08:41 PM
we only saw one thing happen no one knows anything other than cops sprayed ows protesters

therefore no one can logically have an opinion on the matter


Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: JohnyMac on November 20, 2011, 09:00:42 AM
Mountain,  [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: WhiskeyJack on November 20, 2011, 09:49:12 AM
we only saw one thing happen no one knows anything other than cops sprayed ows protesters

therefore no one can logically have an opinion on the matter




[URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: NOLA556 on November 20, 2011, 11:54:47 AM
"The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guarantees individuals the right of freedom of assembly. Under the Common Law and modern statutes, however, the meeting of three or more persons may constitute an unlawful assembly if the persons have an illegal purpose or if their meeting will breach the public peace of the community. If they actually execute their purpose, they have committed the criminal offense of riot."

[url]http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Unlawful+assembly[/url] ([url]http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Unlawful+assembly[/url])


that, like most laws tend to be, is worded so vaguely that authorities can basically say almost any gathering is illegal if they want to. holding up a sign? breaching the public peace...

the way I interpret that quote from that legal-dictionary is "you have the freedom of assembly... except for the fact that you can be arrested for it"

just ask yourselves if this is the way the founders envisioned the 1st Amendment.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Reaver on November 20, 2011, 06:19:26 PM
HA! watching hippies get seasoned well always makes my day!


 

Just because you disagree with their movement doesn't make it right.

Shame on you.  (http://www.smileyvault.co [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
[/quote)
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Boonedawg on November 20, 2011, 08:03:54 PM
 Not only do I disagree I think they should get the business end of a good old stick of hard wood...not by police but by citizens tired of their bitching little hissy fit.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: sledge on November 20, 2011, 08:28:11 PM
I'd say about 1/3 of what they are protesting is at the root of the problem in this country.  They've got a right to speak their dumb ass minds about the other 2/3's too as long as they aren't infringing on any one else's rights. ( Which all too often they have been doing.) 

The protesters were probably ordered by the police to disband or be arrested.  The officer with the pepper spray was "way off base" in his application of the spray against people who obviously weren't violently/actively resisting arrest.

That's how I call it.  You all do your own reasoning.   
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: mountainredneck2051 on November 20, 2011, 08:53:27 PM
i can't beleive were fighting over this,

THEY MADE THIS VIDEO TO ONLY SHOW THESE SECONDS TO PISS US OFF AND GET US TO FIGHT AMONGST OURSELVES

quit falling in the trap they set when they post their propaganda and lets get back to prepping
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: NOLA556 on November 20, 2011, 09:02:40 PM
i can't beleive were fighting over this,

THEY MADE THIS VIDEO TO ONLY SHOW THESE SECONDS TO PISS US OFF AND GET US TO FIGHT AMONGST OURSELVES

quit falling in the trap they set when they post their propaganda and lets get back to prepping


actually the full video is out there.

Cops Vs. UC Protesters/Protesters Get Pepper Sprayed Then Run Cops Away (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3zowoO0Ff4#ws)

the cops actually left the protesters alone shortly after that little snippet that was posted in the OP. interesting.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: special-k on November 20, 2011, 09:14:15 PM
I just typed up a vicious rant, but decided against posting it at the last second (would probably lose my moderator status).  Needless to say, I'm very disappointed with those who think this kind of action by police is "ok." 

Anyone who wants to read it can PM me.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: sledge on November 20, 2011, 09:44:03 PM
Officers in pepper spray incident placed on leave

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20111119/US.Occupy.Pepper.Spray/ (http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20111119/US.Occupy.Pepper.Spray/)
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Reaver on November 20, 2011, 09:53:59 PM
Not only do I disagree I think they should get the business end of a good old stick of hard wood...not by police but by citizens tired of their bitching little hissy fit.

You say via PM " You know what I'm about "  with out giving me the dignity of a response.

Well, who's true colors show up now?
You Sir, are a Piece of work. Good day to you Patriot.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: NOLA556 on November 20, 2011, 09:56:19 PM
I just typed up a vicious rant, but decided against posting it at the last second (would probably lose my moderator status).  Needless to say, I'm very disappointed with those who think this kind of action by police is "ok." 

Anyone who wants to read it can PM me.

PM sent
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: sledge on November 20, 2011, 10:51:41 PM
This topic has seemed to bring out some passions on both sides.  Seeing as there isn't a darn thing any of you can do to affect the situation one way or the other.  May I suggest you display the same sort of passions for beans and rice.

Now there's something to get excited about.  Especially with some good cornbread from an iron skillet!   :)
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: NOLA556 on November 21, 2011, 12:02:35 AM

  Especially with some good cornbread from an iron skillet!   :)

oh hell yea, just like my grandma makes it.  :D
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Boonedawg on November 21, 2011, 12:53:32 AM
Not only do I disagree I think they should get the business end of a good old stick of hard wood...not by police but by citizens tired of their bitching little hissy fit.

You say via PM " You know what I'm about "  with out giving me the dignity of a response.

Well, who's true colors show up now?
You Sir, are a Piece of work. Good day to you Patriot.


 No this is me ignoring you and not giving a fuck.  I suggest you do the same. You don't like me and I don't like you so...there ya go.  Not like we live across the street and you could call me out.....So  to preserve the peace I just overlook you.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Reaver on November 21, 2011, 01:50:55 AM
Overlook me, but also others rights. [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at

Good job guy  [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Reaver on November 21, 2011, 01:58:58 AM
Ya know what. Your right. Lets just drop it right here. As long as others see you for what you are I don't care. At least I'm honest with my self and everyone else 100% of the time.
To the crowd, I'm sorry carry on with the conversation.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Boonedawg on November 21, 2011, 02:25:38 AM
  :'(
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Boonedawg on November 21, 2011, 02:43:28 AM
 These are the same mother effers that spit on returning vets, the same a-holes that throw kids out of school for wearing American flag shirts on cinco de mayo, so yeah I have a bit of distain for communist turds, IDGAF is any of you guys like me for my opinion. If you aren't prepared to deal with a differing opinion on the internet then you will wig the hell out when the lights go off. you wanna go down and join the protests then have at it...I hope you like watery eyes and a bit of wheezing.

 Reaver pm's are pm's you want to drag that out in the open, I could do the same....but I won't because it was a private message. So from now on just pretend I'm not here and I'll do the same. Maybe someday when you aren't wet behind the ears you'll figure it out.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: NOLA556 on November 21, 2011, 04:31:13 AM
These are the same mother effers that spit on returning vets, the same a-holes that throw kids out of school for wearing American flag shirts on cinco de mayo, so yeah I have a bit of distain for communist turds, IDGAF is any of you guys like me for my opinion. If you aren't prepared to deal with a differing opinion on the internet then you will wig the hell out when the lights go off. you wanna go down and join the protests then have at it...I hope you like watery eyes and a bit of wheezing.

 Reaver pm's are pm's you want to drag that out in the open, I could do the same....but I won't because it was a private message. So from now on just pretend I'm not here and I'll do the same. Maybe someday when you aren't wet behind the ears you'll figure it out.

returning vets who are responsible for the death and mutilation of hundreds of thousands of women and children? vets who kill people who (in the case of Afghanistan, at least) for the most part, HAVE NEVER EVEN HEARD OF 9/11!!!!!! HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE WHY WE'RE OCCUPYING THEIR COUNTRY!!??

do YOU even have a clue why we're occupying those countries?!? will you fight back if a foreign force invades for an unjust reason? will you fight back if cops decide that YOU'RE some kind of threat? you know good and well that you're not. you're (supposedly) a freedom-loving American. so what will YOU do when you become a victim of this police state? will you LAUGH at yourself being brutalized the way you laugh at others whom you don't agree with?

boon, soldiers aren't exempt from the CONUS, and neither are cops, regardless WHO they're brutalizing or murdering. whether it's "dirty hippies" or red-blooded American Patriots. what difference does it make? If you have any respect whatsoever for the CONUS, then it shouldn't make a difference.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Outonowhere on November 21, 2011, 08:01:12 AM
returning vets who are responsible for the death and mutilation of hundreds of thousands of women and children? vets who kill people who (in the case of Afghanistan, at least) for the most part, HAVE NEVER EVEN HEARD OF 9/11!!!!!! HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE WHY WE'RE OCCUPYING THEIR COUNTRY!!??

do YOU even have a clue why we're occupying those countries?!? will you fight back if a foreign force invades for an unjust reason? will you fight back if cops decide that YOU'RE some kind of threat? you know good and well that you're not. you're (supposedly) a freedom-loving American. so what will YOU do when you become a victim of this police state? will you LAUGH at yourself being brutalized the way you laugh at others whom you don't agree with?

boon, soldiers aren't exempt from the CONUS, and neither are cops, regardless WHO they're brutalizing or murdering. whether it's "dirty hippies" or red-blooded American Patriots. what difference does it make? If you have any respect whatsoever for the CONUS, then it shouldn't make a difference.

Ok, I was staying out of this until this point.  Where the f*ck do you get off attacking our soldiers like that?  Sure they are subject to the CONUS and I  guaran-damn-tee you most of our soldiers would rather NOT be over there in the first place!  And I'm sorry but while I agree with you that we do not need to be occupying ANY countries, whether they like it or not our soldiers must treat it like war.  Saying that they must abide by CONUS towards foreign people in their country (yea I know, but Ive already said we shouldn't be there anyway) is the same as reading them Miranda rights.

My whole point of this post is, if you don't like the war then spit on the guys that started it, the ones pulling the strings.  But you start talking bad about the troops in general (yea there are a few bad eggs) and you are stepping in a dangerous area.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: sledge on November 21, 2011, 09:59:14 AM
Holy shit!  You guys are stubborn, stubborn, stubborn.  Neither of you can see that you are both right and both wrong.  You're both looking at narrow slices rather than a big picture.

Boone - Those people, scum bags or not, are American citizens whose rights to protest grievances are sworn to be protected by the military and the police.  Regardless of what those American citizens believe.  Regardless of if they believe something entirely contrary to what you believe.  Freedom of choice and freedom of belief is the basis of that piece of paper that so many have fought for and died for.  Even though they were spit upon at some points for it by Americans that think differently.  ( I've lived through one of those periods and my views on the rights of American citizens and my faith in the American people have not diminished.  Although, that faith has been severely tested at times.)  By  using force to stop American citizens from speaking their minds, regardless of how stupid they are, it is a shredding of the Constitution.

NOLA -  War is hell and people die. Whether the Afghanistan people know why we are there or not makes no difference whatsoever.  They allowed, tolerated or supported a Government that contributed to an attack on the people of the United States.  They are all guilty and ignorance is no excuse.

We should have gone in, leveled the place and it's people and left.  Leaving behind the message that if they are complicit in the American people being attacked again we will be back and do it again.  We have "no" responsibility to rebuild their country or take care of their people.

The same here.  We get the government that we tolerate and allow.  If we are forced to pay a price for that Government's idiocy.   We are at fault and have no right to complain about those things which we allowed.  American citizens across the political spectrum are unhappy with the actions of their Government and are speaking out.  The Tea Party and the Occupy Movement  are examples of this.  They are people offering different solutions to the same problem in an effort to fix the problem.  We'll see which solution is selected in the next election.

If the people of Afghanistan had sought to correct their Government we wouldn't have sent the soldiers we ask to kill people to their land.   

 
"returning vets who are responsible for the death and mutilation of hundreds of thousands of women and children? vets who kill people who (in the case of Afghanistan, at least) for the most part, HAVE NEVER EVEN HEARD OF 9/11!!!!!!"
 



Soldiers, well done!  You are doing what we sent you to do.  Sorry it's taking so long to bring you back home.
     
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Boonedawg on November 21, 2011, 11:15:25 AM
 Nola, your damn lucky you live across the country.  It's much nicer over there.

 I guess I'm a little more seasoned to the real world than a couple of you guys. To you guys that are still my friends I think I have you on FB.  Maybe in 10-20 years you'll get an idea that Your hero Alex Jones isn't so freakin smart and you'll think for yourself. I'm out, I'll put up with a lot of shit but disrespect for men that volunteer to protect you isn't one of them. I don't associate with anyone that disrespects my brothers.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: sledge on November 21, 2011, 11:24:46 AM
Nola, your damn lucky you live across the country. I think you've just about done exactly the same as spit on American service men and women. Foxtrot Oscar.

 I guess I'm a little more seasoned to the real world than a couple of you children. To you guys that are still my friends I think I have you on FB. To you pissy pants little boys, Maybe in 10-20 years you'll get an idea that Your hero Alex Jones isn't so freakin smart and you'll think for yourself. I'm out, I'll put up with a lot of shit but disrespect for men that volunteer to protect you isn't one of them. I don't associate with anyone that disrespects my brothers.

See you around Boone.  Good luck and take care.  Watch your six, times ahead look to be bumpy.  If you decide to come back I'm sure we'll still be here God willing.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Reaver on November 21, 2011, 11:34:04 AM
Nola, your damn lucky you live across the country. I think you've just about done exactly the same as spit on American service men and women. Foxtrot Oscar.

 I guess I'm a little more seasoned to the real world than a couple of you guys. To you guys that are still my friends I think I have you on FB. To you pissy pants little boys, Maybe in 10-20 years you'll get an idea that Your hero Alex Jones isn't so freakin smart and you'll think for yourself. I'm out, I'll put up with a lot of shit but disrespect for men that volunteer to protect you isn't one of them. I don't associate with anyone that disrespects my brothers.

I've been over there, I don't feel disrespected by what nola said at all. Because he's right. I also don't care if they spit on me or actually do disrespect me. Do you know why? BECAUSE IT'S THEIR RIGHT!

And I didn't say anything in PM's that I don't regret. Your a nice guy. < ( Thank you sledge- That is in fact what I meant )  (You welcome,  I thought it was what you meant.)  :))

Subject- look guys your opinion on how these guys protest what ever they do. Does not matter. They have the right, as long as they are doing it peacefully that right shall not be fucked with. And yes spitting doesn't sound peaceful. But its not a physical attack. Yes, its disrespectful. But they can do it. And I will always protect that right even if I disagree with their opinion.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: JohnyMac on November 21, 2011, 12:26:11 PM
I have lurked in the background as several of you have gone at it. Bottom-line I agreed with many points made on both sides and disagreed with many too.

As usual I think Sledge has hit the preverbial nail on the head- Good job.

Boone I hate to see you go in fact I hate to see anybody leave in anger (except maybe Gar- Before your time Boone) because we can all learn from each other- Good or bad. 

With that said, Reaver just a clairfication to your spitting comment, "And yes spitting doesn't sound peaceful. But its not a physical attack. Yes, its disrespectful. But they can do it": Spitting is now classified as an assult because of HIV and STD's. Does that give a LEO the right to pepper spray someone? I do not know but it is justification for an arrest.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: NOLA556 on November 21, 2011, 03:58:20 PM
returning vets who are responsible for the death and mutilation of hundreds of thousands of women and children? vets who kill people who (in the case of Afghanistan, at least) for the most part, HAVE NEVER EVEN HEARD OF 9/11!!!!!! HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE WHY WE'RE OCCUPYING THEIR COUNTRY!!??

do YOU even have a clue why we're occupying those countries?!? will you fight back if a foreign force invades for an unjust reason? will you fight back if cops decide that YOU'RE some kind of threat? you know good and well that you're not. you're (supposedly) a freedom-loving American. so what will YOU do when you become a victim of this police state? will you LAUGH at yourself being brutalized the way you laugh at others whom you don't agree with?

boon, soldiers aren't exempt from the CONUS, and neither are cops, regardless WHO they're brutalizing or murdering. whether it's "dirty hippies" or red-blooded American Patriots. what difference does it make? If you have any respect whatsoever for the CONUS, then it shouldn't make a difference.


Ok, I was staying out of this until this point.  Where the f*ck do you get off attacking our soldiers like that?  Sure they are subject to the CONUS and I  guaran-damn-tee you most of our soldiers would rather NOT be over there in the first place!  And I'm sorry but while I agree with you that we do not need to be occupying ANY countries, whether they like it or not our soldiers must treat it like war.  Saying that they must abide by CONUS towards foreign people in their country (yea I know, but Ive already said we shouldn't be there anyway) is the same as reading them Miranda rights.

My whole point of this post is, if you don't like the war then spit on the guys that started it, the ones pulling the strings.  But you start talking bad about the troops in general (yea there are a few bad eggs) and you are stepping in a dangerous area.


OONW, I wasn't condoning the POS's that spit on returning vets. Whether I agree with the wars or not, I wasn't attacking them personally, although in my heated response I can see how it could be taken that way. I think it's disgusting to think about people treating our vets that way, and I was in no way supporting those types of people. as a matter of fact, I've discussed this exact topic with TG via phone conversation in the recent past. If anyone on this board can vouch for me that I DON'T feel that way about the troops themselves, it would be him, because he's heard the words come out of my mouth in a candid conversation. I wasn't bashing the troops, I was responding to this blind patriotism I see on display over and over again.

this sums up how I feel pretty good:
Adam VS Remembering Our Fallen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eu5MouetPU#ws)

that being said, the only reason why the troops came into the mix in the first place was:
These are the same mother effers that spit on returning vets, the same a-holes that throw kids out of school for wearing American flag shirts on cinco de mayo,


what I said was short-sighted and inflammatory and I apologize for that but certain things just burn my ass.
some guys want to preach the constitution, but then laugh as they watch others have their rights trampled. Some people believe in "exceptionalism" just for being lucky enough to be born within the borders of a certain country. and those same people tend to have little or no respect for human life as long as it's people in some 3rd world country halfway across the world. and while I don't blame the troops themselves, and I'd like to kick in the teeth of someone who would do something so vile as to spit on returning vets, how many people here are ok with the whole "I'm just doing my job" argument? If the situation in this country ever becomes so grim where they're treating Americans the way they treat people in the countries that we're occupying, will you accept "don't blame me, I'm just following orders" as a viable answer?

again, I apologize for giving such a heated response, but people who only champion their own constitutional rights while laughing at others and they lose theirs.. just rubs me the wrong way. (btw, I'm not suggesting that people in other countries are entitled to the rights of the CONUS, but use some common sense, man. when you've got a constant stream of photos and videos of little kids in other countries with half their heads blown off, somethings fucking wrong!)

War is hell and people die. Whether the Afghanistan people know why we are there or not makes no difference whatsoever.  They allowed, tolerated or supported a Government that contributed to an attack on the people of the United States.  They are all guilty and ignorance is no excuse.


so by this logic, let's say some fringe group based here in the U.S. decides to go blow up some buildings in some other country that they have a grievance with, does that give that country the right to come and "level the entire U.S." because we allowed such a group to exist? again, I think so many good-hearted people fall into this trap of not caring about people halfway across the world and use the excuse "war is hell and people die". but when you flip the script and imagine the same exact thing happening here, to us... well it's usually a different sentiment all together. you start seeing drones dropping bombs on suburban neighborhoods, killing innocent men, women, and children, here in the U.S., you'd be so filled with rage and hatred for the people who were doing this to you. all I'm asking is the people just think, for just a second, about how you'd feel about another country doing the same exact thing to us.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: sledge on November 21, 2011, 04:33:50 PM
NOLA said-  "when you've got a constant stream of photos and videos of little kids in other countries with half their heads blown off, somethings fucking wrong!"

NOLA, it's one of the ugly facts of war, but that is exactly what war is.  It's ugly.  One people set against another.  Not just the militaries, the entire populations are enemies.  It has always been that way. 

We carpet bombed Germany.  We carpet bombed Japan and then dropped two nukes on them.  We killed men, women, children, dogs, cats, and birds.  We killed until they were totally defeated and submissive.  That is war.

We started out at war in Afghanistan and Iraq.  Then we changed to more of a police action with adverse rules of engagement to satisfy the the people at home who have no idea of what war is and no stomach for it.  Police actions never go well and always drag out into years because the enemy isn't totally defeated to the point where they are submissive.

I'm concerned that our financial problems are going to weaken us in the years ahead and the American people will come to learn what war is.  World peace is a pipe dream do to man's nature.  There will always be people looking to dominate other people and enforce their will upon them.  There will always be war and sooner or later it will come to our shores.     



Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: NOLA556 on November 21, 2011, 04:44:53 PM
well sledge, I applaud you for always keeping a cool head about these things, and most times being the voice of reason. but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I know that "world peace" is a pipe dream. you're 100% correct on that. but I just can't accept that it has to be as bad as it currently is.

you also said that it's one country vs. another. the entire population of that country. no no no. it's one ruling class vs. another ruling class, the only people that lose is the people who have nothing to do with it. did you watch the video that I embedded in my last post? you don't have to like Kokesh (lots of people don't) but I think that vid sums up the point that governments go to war, and dupe their people into supporting it.
anyway, thanks again for always keeping a cool head with these things.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: sledge on November 21, 2011, 05:01:45 PM
Yeah man, we can disagree without going to war.   :)  What either of us thinks isn't going to affect the future one iota.  I will say that the reason governments are able to go to war is because their populations, whether duped or not, allow them to stay in power and do what they do.  So all wars are in effect the people of the warring countries fault.

All of us, all round the world, get what we deserve.  It sucks but it's true.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Reaver on November 21, 2011, 06:17:48 PM
I have lurked in the background as several of you have gone at it. Bottom-line I agreed with many points made on both sides and disagreed with many too.

As usual I think Sledge has hit the preverbial nail on the head- Good job.

Boone I hate to see you go in fact I hate to see anybody leave in anger (except maybe Gar- Before your time Boone) because we can all learn from each other- Good or bad. 

With that said, Reaver just a clairfication to your spitting comment, "And yes spitting doesn't sound peaceful. But its not a physical attack. Yes, its disrespectful. But they can do it": Spitting is now classified as an assult because of HIV and STD's. Does that give a LEO the right to pepper spray someone? I do not know but it is justification for an arrest.

I did not know this. Regardless there is a couple of things I would like to note.

ROE  ( Rules of Engagement )
EOF  ( Escalation of Force )

There are rules set prior to any engagement on what can or cannot be done. ( ROE )
If someone engages me with a handgun I cannot engage him with an A-10 airstrike ( EOF )



Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: thatGuy on November 21, 2011, 06:43:41 PM
Could someone please explain to me why my mods are failing to lead by example?
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Outonowhere on November 21, 2011, 09:14:20 PM
Uh oh, daddy's home lol

J/K
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: sledge on November 21, 2011, 09:48:03 PM
Could someone please explain to me why my mods are failing to lead by example?
Uh oh, daddy's home lol

Yeah, right?  I've always hated questions like that.  Anything you say to answer them is going to be wrong.

You weren't supposed to be back until Friday.

The dog ate my copy of the forum rules.

Because NOLA and Mountain did it  too.

Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: thatGuy on November 22, 2011, 01:06:04 AM
I finally took the time to read this thread word for word and wow!

Nola you need to keep your cool bro, your temper gets in the way of your brain. I know you wouldn't stand by if you saw someone spit on a vet.

Sledge, keep up the good work. I love the edits!

Mountain, I like that you tried to douse the flames.

Boone,
Quote
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.


I hate to say it because I could not disagree with a movement any more than I disagree with this OWS crap. Nola will tell you that I have advocated going down there personally and busting some fucking heads but guys this effects us all.

The rights and liberty that are being lost are ours.
Title: Re: Cop overreacts with pepper spray
Post by: Reaver on November 22, 2011, 02:08:53 PM
Quote
The rights and liberty that are being lost are ours. 
  [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

Exactly.