Author Topic: Cloward-Piven: Over Load the System  (Read 1078 times)

Offline JohnyMac

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Cloward-Piven: Over Load the System
« on: June 10, 2014, 09:02:56 AM »
With the dumping of South American children being brought across the border and then warehoused in AZ. and TX. are we seeing the beginning of the end ala Cloward-Piven?

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The state of Arizona has shipped mattresses, portable toilets, and showers to a warehouse in Nogales where over 700 illegal immigrant children have been "dumped" by federal agents using the facility as a makeshift holding center. 

An official with the Department of Homeland Security told the Associated Press that 2,000 mattresses have been ordered after most of the children spent the night sleeping on plastic cots.

Gov. Jan Brewer's spokesman, Andrew Wilder, said Friday that conditions at the center are so dire that federal officials have asked the state to immediately ship medical supplies there.

DHS started flying illegal immigrants to Arizona from the Rio Grande Valley in Texas last month after the number of immigrants -- including more than 48,000 children traveling on their own -- overwhelmed the Border Patrol there.


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[/b]Cloven & Piven wrote:
This was an example of what are commonly called Trojan Horse movements -- mass movements whose outward purpose seems to be providing material help to the downtrodden, but whose real objective is to draft poor people into service as revolutionary foot soldiers; to mobilize poor people en masse to overwhelm government agencies with a flood of demands beyond the capacity of those agencies to meet. The flood of demands was calculated to break the budget, jam the bureaucratic gears into gridlock, and bring the system crashing down. Fear, turmoil, violence and economic collapse would accompany such a breakdown -- providing perfect conditions for fostering radical change. That was the theory.


Add to the above event, all of the scandals PLUS the up and coming Nov. elections, I wonder if we are moving closer to "the day?"

Stay tuned... 
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Offline thatGuy

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Re: Cloward-Piven: Over Load the System
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2014, 07:40:47 PM »
I was hearing something about this on my Ham lastnight... didn't sound like it was awesome...

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Cloward-Piven: Over Load the System
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2014, 08:03:05 AM »
"I was hearing something about this on my Ham last night" ThatGuy WROTE.

Do tell Mr. Guy...
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Offline Well-Prepared Witch

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Re: Cloward-Piven: Over Load the System
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2014, 10:40:31 AM »
I was completely unsurprised to find
a) people fleeing the economic wasteland and violence that is parts of Mexico, and
b) that the Arizonans and Texans are treating these children so badly, in conditions in which I wouldn't put my farm animals, much less children.

When you demonize, attack, dehumanize, and just want a class of people to disappear, you treat them as sub-human.  These are our modern concentration camps.  This is *exactly* what I expect from these racists who have been lauded as "keeping our borders safe" like that one sheriff, or the legislatures that pass the "your papers, please" legislation.

I know this is an unpopular opinion on this board, but I am finding I am less and less aligned with most preppers, survivalists and "patriots" every day.  This could be the beginning of the end, but I'd put it more along the lines of the mistakes that were made by pre-WWII Germans than anything else.
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Offline thatGuy

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Re: Cloward-Piven: Over Load the System
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2014, 11:09:38 AM »
Yeah, I feel like you're less and less in line with our views too Wellie..  :lmfao:

So all good natured ribbing a side I was DX'ing and ran across these yahoos who are both on 100watt sticks talking to each other about it. Their info struck me as wildly inaccurate as they were claiming to have seen 10s of thousands of children walking around town. Now I'm guessing it could be true, either way I wasn't able to make contact at 4 watts so I went on about my business.

These two jack wagons were in the same town at 100watts and not one mention of QRP.. I'm sure their neighbors loved them. On a side note I had a lovely albeit staticy conversation with a gentleman who was 60 miles away from me with my beofeng.

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Re: Cloward-Piven: Over Load the System
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2014, 11:26:11 AM »
I know this is an unpopular opinion on this board, but I am finding I am less and less aligned with most preppers, survivalists and "patriots" every day.  This could be the beginning of the end, but I'd put it more along the lines of the mistakes that were made by pre-WWII Germans than anything else.
Nonsense Mrs. Witch. I am am immigrant myself and feel for those people that are being herded like cattle. And you are again correct in drawing a comparison to Germany because this "not one of us" nationalism that is prevalent in just some states is very dangerous.

I think it is safe to say that you are currently the most ideologically different active forum member as compared to the the rest.
That isn't to say that you are wrong or "not one of us" It just mean that I and the rest of the forum members have failed in engaging you and ourselves in meaningful ideological discussion.

Sooo.. I apologize

Offline crudos

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Re: Cloward-Piven: Over Load the System
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2014, 12:01:52 PM »
Nonsense Mrs. Witch. I am am immigrant myself and feel for those people that are being herded like cattle. And you are again correct in drawing a comparison to Germany because this "not one of us" nationalism that is prevalent in just some states is very dangerous.

I think it is safe to say that you are currently the most ideologically different active forum member as compared to the the rest.
That isn't to say that you are wrong or "not one of us" It just mean that I and the rest of the forum members have failed in engaging you and ourselves in meaningful ideological discussion.

Sooo.. I apologize
Burt nailed it. Hang in there Wellie!  :thumbsup:

Offline Kentactic

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Re: Re: Cloward-Piven: Over Load the System
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2014, 12:11:16 PM »
WPW - I think you are more similar to many of us then you think. I dont even support the use of a border. Much less the poor treatment of those that cross it the wrong way.

To those that support the current American system. They get all upset because illegals come and get on welfare and all that good stuff. The system supporters dont like that because they think its like stealing their personal income because they pay into it. The part they fail to realize is that not everyone wants to pay into their system but must or risk jail or death. So we've got people who openly support robbing their neighbors that get upset when other people try to take advantage of their same victims. Its one theif upset with another for basically trying to work his turf. They really dont have a leg to stand on morally speaking.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 01:04:39 PM by Kentactic »
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Offline special-k

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Re: Cloward-Piven: Over Load the System
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2014, 03:04:01 PM »
IMHO, I have no doubt that Cloward-Piven is in play here.

Any welfare (socialist) state with open boarders is bound to fail exponentially faster than it normally would.

I guess anyone who tries to limit the lifeboat to its maximum capacity will always be called "big meanies" by those who ignore basic math... along with those who actually wish to sink the lifeboat.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 03:21:16 PM by special-k »
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Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Cloward-Piven: Over Load the System
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2014, 04:10:14 PM »
Quote
Special-K wrote:
I guess anyone who tries to limit the lifeboat to its maximum capacity will always be called "big meanies" by those who ignore basic math... along with those who actually wish to sink the lifeboat.

That is a very profound comment SK of which I agree 100%.  :thumbsUp:

Wellie, because you may have different opinions than many of us on maybe 20% of the things we alpine on, please keep in mind that we agree 80%+ of the time. When I ran my little $160M region I had ten district managers who worked for me. Each one had different skills and backgrounds which when all put together we made up the best pie in the (bakery) company.

I had one DM who was a ultra liberal and had graduated from Berkley. I had one DM who was right down the middle of the road politically and had graduated from Brown. Some of my DM's never went to college and had gained their smarts via "hands on experience." In short it was a rather eclectic group and because of their differences we made up an incredible team - Although it was like herding cats at times. 

Never be a "wall flower" Wellie speak your mind as it is appreciated.

I forget who wrote that TX. & AZ. are treating the poor misguided South American children so poorly but you are wrong. It is the federal government who are treating these children so poorly. They are under the protection of the Border Patrol and ICE.

My father came to this country from Scotland in 1952 via Canada. Got a sponsor than a Green Card and immigrated to the USof and was promptly drafted.  :facepalm: Became a citizen once he completed boot camp. I know of nobody who was more PRO American than dear old Dad.

My brother's wife is from the Philippines. Back in the Philippines she was a Operating Room Nurse and when she was in her mid 20's she was recruited by Hackensack General Hospital to be a OR Nurse here. She received a boat-load of money (Which most of which she sent home) and a Green Card. She met my brother as a blind date through a friend of my brother who also was a RN. She also is so Pro American it isn't funny.

I can keep going on and on here as I have a lot of other family members and friends who are naturalized citizens or current holders of green cards; However, I hope that everyone gets my point - They came here legally.

Now all of that above garbage aside; whether you feel bad or don't for the poor South American children, the question you have to ask is...Why?

Why will there be an estimated 90,000 illegal children coming across the border this year vs. 2013's 6,500? Why are the Fed's shipping them off to AZ. and TX. in buses and airplanes without doing proper medical checks? I will bet you that a larger percentage than USofA average have; measles, TB, Chicken pox, insert commutable disease here and will ultimately affect our children.

In closing ("Thank God it's almost over" Rah45 said to himself), there is something sinister to this migration. I think it has a lot to do with overwhelming the system. Once the system collapses then it can be put back together in the eyes of the architect that is masterminding A Series of Unfortunate Events.  ;)

 
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Offline Kentactic

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Re: Cloward-Piven: Over Load the System
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2014, 04:30:37 PM »
IMHO, I have no doubt that Cloward-Piven is in play here.

Any welfare (socialist) state with open boarders is bound to fail exponentially faster than it normally would.

I guess anyone who tries to limit the lifeboat to its maximum capacity will always be called "big meanies" by those who ignore basic math... along with those who actually wish to sink the lifeboat.
So it would make sense to adress the cause of the problem rather then turn a chunk of land into a military base to keep others from trying to take advantage beyond the maximum capacity of the system. Instead of restricting the amount of people who can steal from the others, lets just stop the theft through taxation. Locking down the borders just ensures that those on the inside have enough to go around. But they only have enough to go around if they continue to rob others on the inside. These people are led to believe that robbing others through taxes is in their best interest. They are wrong.

My argument is that their lifeboat floats on my back. They rob me and then want protection from other criminals that aim to get a piece of the same meat.

The illegals taking advantage of the government handouts are just as bad. I just don't have sympathy for the "legal" criminals looking for protection.

The "big meanies" are the ones in support of the illegal taxation of others.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 04:35:04 PM by Kentactic »
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Offline Kentactic

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Re: Cloward-Piven: Over Load the System
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2014, 04:42:36 PM »
Here's a fun definition:

Racket

"A Racket is a service that is fraudulently offered to solve a problem, such as for a problem that does not actually exist, will not be affected, or would not otherwise exist. Conducting a racket is .[1]Particularly, the potential problem may be caused by the same party that offers to solve it, although that fact may be concealed, with the specific intent to engender continual patronage for this party. A prototype is the protection racket, wherein a person or group indicates that they could protect a store from potential damage, damage that the same person or group would otherwise inflict, while the correlation of threat and protection may be more or less deniably veiled, distinguishing it from the more direct act of extortion."


The system supporters cause an illegal immigration problem with their criminal system and then say that they can solve it by securing the borders and in turn securing more for themselves(or so they think). Their system is the problem.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 04:51:32 PM by Kentactic »
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Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Cloward-Piven: Over Load the System
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2014, 04:43:05 PM »
Agreed Ken!  :thumbsUp:
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Offline Kbop

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