Cliven Bundy - Racist?

[JohnyMac]

In a New York Times interview Cliven Bundy said,

“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.

“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”

In another post I think I wrote that someone needed to control what Mr. Bundy said. Every news agency is going to pick this up and then label any patriot movement, and Tea Party movement as racists.

Is this revelation, a message from God?

But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. Deuteronomy 18:20

[Well-Prepared Witch]

This is exactly what I was talking about in the other thread.  Very few people these days will look at someone like Bundy and say, "now there's a leader I can get behind".  Disregarding that there are differing viewpoints on whether what he was doing was legal or moral, when someone like this is braying about their rights being violated, it's harder to care or believe.  If they were someone we could relate to, someone inspiring, and if the problem was one we all were suffering, and if they could speak well (while some referred to this as being "a good bullshitter", I personally put a high value on eloquence - it means a person has thought about, internalized, and understood their subject, and then communicated it clearly to a listener), then people might follow them, might want to rise up to help them or to collectively change things. 

Frankly, Bundy is no such animal.

[JohnyMac]

Yes Wellie you are correct.

Here's the bummer, his comments will be played over and over again in the MSM (Main Stream Media) the same group that never went to Bunkerville and the good people who came to his call for help will labeled a racist.

If you align yourself with a particular group like The Tea Party, you will be labeled a racist.

I am counting down the minutes from when Sen. Harry Reid, Al Sharpton and/or  Sec. Jeh Johnson will be calling many of us Domestic Terrorist Racists!

This continuing Drama will draw attention away from the real issue (s) such as the Federal Governments continuing efforts to control farmers and ranchers across the country. 

[crudos]

The solution is to stop saying dumb-ass shit. Think before you put the mouth in gear. In fact, if you having something really profound to say, stop, think about it again, then try again. And unfortunately, the movements now associated with the Bundy event have all had their share of supporters saying dumb-ass commentary…. *cough*James Yeager*cough*. Words mean even more now than ever before, due this age of instant information availability.

[Kentactic]

The solution is to stop saying dumb-ass shit. Think before you put the mouth in gear. In fact, if you having something really profound to say, stop, think about it again, then try again. And unfortunately, the movements now associated with the Bundy event have all had their share of supporters saying dumb-ass commentary…. *cough*James Yeager*cough*. Words mean even more now than ever before, due this age of instant information availability.

What did james yeager say?

[crudos]

The solution is to stop saying dumb-ass shit. Think before you put the mouth in gear. In fact, if you having something really profound to say, stop, think about it again, then try again. And unfortunately, the movements now associated with the Bundy event have all had their share of supporters saying dumb-ass commentary…. *cough*James Yeager*cough*. Words mean even more now than ever before, due this age of instant information availability.

What did james yeager say?

He did a video on Youtube saying he was going to start killing people if more gun control was to be enacted, then pulled it down, and redid it, backtracking on what he actually meant. The thing was to not say the stupid shit in the first place.

[Kentactic]

The solution is to stop saying dumb-ass shit. Think before you put the mouth in gear. In fact, if you having something really profound to say, stop, think about it again, then try again. And unfortunately, the movements now associated with the Bundy event have all had their share of supporters saying dumb-ass commentary…. *cough*James Yeager*cough*. Words mean even more now than ever before, due this age of instant information availability.

What did james yeager say?

He did a video on Youtube saying he was going to start killing people if more gun control was to be enacted, then pulled it down, and redid it, backtracking on what he actually meant. The thing was to not say the stupid shit in the first place.

Oh ok I thought you were reffering to the bundy situation directly. I asked because I thought hes been on-point with it.

(Edited for lack of racist content)

[rah45]

Violence without excellent leadership and direction, a vision of what needs to be done and the will to finish it accordingly, is useless. People keep talking about the Founding Fathers' generation and what they did. Well, you know what? They had both Adamses, Franklin, Jefferson, Henry, Washington, I could go on. Those men had charisma, they were unquestionably intelligent and knowledgeable about laws and were overall pretty clear on what they found unacceptable coming from the British Parliament. Name FIVE guys like this, that you would stand behind no questions asked, that have EARNED your trust through something more than chest-pumping, pro-patriotic rhetoric. Give the names of guys who are calm, collected, intelligent, devoted to the cause who would also serve as leaders and champions of a renewed vision of America.

I can't think of any, to be honest. If SHTF like Katrina, I'm fighting for my family and friends, and maybe a community. If a revolution starts, how many factions will there be? Which one do you choose? Which ones have the intelligence, vision and determination to not only persevere in winning such a conflict, but also succeed in recreating an America in the 18th century ideals (basic human rights violations not included - slavery, suffrage)?

[Kentactic]

To put it simple the internet has destroyed any chance at a larger then life leader. No man can compare to the genius of our founding fathers because every word they speak is transmitted to everyone. The founding fathers did not have these obstacles. This made them appear to be perfect and flawless. Some of our founding fathers might have been ripped to shreds if they lived in today's world.

If you're looking for a larger then life leader then forget it. He will never exist again. Realize that nobody is perfect but that if the general direction is right then jump on and ride it until he veers off course. At least you are a little closer.

[crudos]

If a revolution starts, how many factions will there be?

Hundreds, if not thousands and probably even more. What a bloody (real blood) mess it would be. 

[Well-Prepared Witch]

Violence without excellent leadership and direction, a vision of what needs to be done and the will to finish it accordingly, is useless. People keep talking about the Founding Fathers' generation and what they did. Well, you know what? They had both Adamses, Franklin, Jefferson, Henry, Washington, I could go on. Those men had charisma, they were unquestionably intelligent and knowledgeable about laws and were overall pretty clear on what they found unacceptable coming from the British Parliament. Name FIVE guys like this, that you would stand behind no questions asked, that have EARNED your trust through something more than chest-pumping, pro-patriotic rhetoric. Give the names of guys who are calm, collected, intelligent, devoted to the cause who would also serve as leaders and champions of a renewed vision of America.

I can't think of any, to be honest. If SHTF like Katrina, I'm fighting for my family and friends, and maybe a community. If a revolution starts, how many factions will there be? Which one do you choose? Which ones have the intelligence, vision and determination to not only persevere in winning such a conflict, but also succeed in recreating an America in the 18th century ideals (basic human rights violations not included - slavery, suffrage)?

Spot on. 

[JohnyMac]

Holy cow Batman! Are we off topic or what?

This topic was started to discuss the racist comments that Mr. Bundy expressed to the NYT reporter. Leadership is a good tangent but violence or lack there of has nothing to do with this subject.

If you want to broach the topic of violence, civil war or peaceful protesting, start another topic please.

Thank you!

Gee wilakers!

[Well-Prepared Witch]

To get back on topic, then, I loved this tweet.

April 24, 2014 Danielle Lannister @DCPlod Look, can you stop putting racists' own racist words in their mouths to make them look like the racists they are? Very unsporting. https://twitter.com/DCPlod/statuses/459377932193263616

[JohnyMac]

 

[special-k]

You can find hundreds of YT videos made by blacks presenting (as facts) the same exact points that Bundy merely posed as questions.  Are the blacks who made those videos anti-black racist?

Double-standard much folks?

Personally I despise double-standards far more than I despise what is being labelled as "racism" these days.

 

[Burt Gummer]

Ugh... I can't stand the topic of "racism" especially in America. It's so Orwellian, Double speak + your daily our of hate.
It's such a: Hear no evil, See no evil, Speak no evil attitude.
The ass hats on Cable know that they are being the bigots, And that they are being paid to shovel this bs in order to create partisan division.
You guys know that those guys know they are being dirt bags. But then you still go to great pains. To distance yourself from any topic that might be considered racist.
And then all parties (Minority, Majority, Media) know that "racism" reffers 99% of the time to a cultural difference "They like this food"
Instead of a racial one. "They have a big nose"
But the term "racism" is used in both instances because there is no dialogue possible then discussing the optional culture.
This isolates one group from an other widening the social gap.
This is done 100% intentionally because that makes us as a population easier to control.

I know this because I live just below Milwaukee.
Red is White
Blue is Black
Yellow is Hispanic
This is intentional, I have to break through this artificial ass culture gap everyday I work.
And it fucking sucks.

[Kentactic]

Full version of Cliven Bundys supposed racist remarks.

http://youtu.be/agXns-W60MI

Simply put he believes people are more of a slave under government support then under actual slavery.

[Kentactic]

More common sense
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/04/132334-dont-care-cliven-bundy-racist/

[JohnyMac]

I loved what Kira said in her YT vid. Thanks Ken for posting both vids! 

Here are the facts as I see them:
1) Mr. Bundy is a bigot or as the media might propose, a racist.
2) He has the 1st Amendment right to say what he thinks.
3) Mr. Bundy is/has broken the law.
4) The government sent out 200+ heavily armed Federal Agents to get their pound of flesh.

From the facts, here are my observations:
I)   In this day and age, Mr. Bundy is hurting his cause every time he opens his mouth. He   not only is
      hurting his cause but casting aspersions on the people that support his protest against the
      Government. He is in fact giving ammo to the likes of Al Sharpton, Sen. Harry Reid, and Sec. Jeh
      Johnson.
II)  You do not need to send 200+ Revenuers to threaten him or his family's life. As I have written in
      the past - Put a lien on his property for Pete's sake!
III) Mr. Bundy's supporters may have in fact stopped another Waco or Ruby Ridge.
IV) My mother use to tell my brother and I, "you are judged by the company you keep."

I applaud Mr. Bundy's supporters and in no way shape or form want to keep his company.

[Kentactic]

3) Mr. Bundy is/has broken the law.

Im pretty sure you understand this Jmac but I just want to say it for the threads sake.

The entire fight in NV hinges on this sentence. The feds think Cliven owes them money. Cliven and his supporters say he doesn't owe anything because the feds illegally claim the land. They(myself included) believe the feds are breaking the law(US constitution) by even trying to claim the land, let alone enforce their will on said land.

It comes down to whether or not a person recognizes the US Constitution as the supreme law of the land. If you dont then Cliven bundy is a fugitive from justice. If you do then cliven and "the people" are victims of decades of attacks by criminals.

[Grudgie]

Coming from a Tennessean this doesn't sound racist at all. It's actually quite mild. Mr. Bundy is a rough man and I can see how the way he talks seems coarse to a lot of folks.

I could give you examples of what an actual white racist might say or what they actually do, but I'll spare you the vulgarity.

A real racist wouldn't use the term negro for example(which is not a derogatory term AT ALL).

[special-k]

I watched the posted video and I did not hear one iota of bigotry or racial prejudice.  I also think that anyone who thought they heard such things has let the stigma of certain political incorrectness cloud their judgement.

[JohnyMac]

You are probably correct SK.

To add to your comment, I may be somewhat of an elitist in my thinking too. Specifically, I think to myself, "Why is this man getting off topic and saying something that is obviously going to get blown out of proportion; Something that is going to shadow what I am trying to accomplish here?"

Well everybody is not me nor do they think as I do. Nor will the path they take still not deliver them to the end goal as the path I may take.

Mr. Bundy is actually not a racist but a bigot. Being a bigot he discriminates based on his opinion (s). Bigotry has no bounds as it includes religion, gender, beliefs and race. What other pearls of wisdom will come out of this mans mouth about: Puerto Ricans, Catholics, easterners, Jews?

I too am a bigot as in my opinion or belief, Mr. Bundy used poor judgment in his choice of comparisons describing his subjugation to the Government, compared to slavery pre 1860.

By saying what Mr. Bundy said, he eluded to the fact that slavery under a master that makes men and women work like rented mules, under the lash and controlled by food... A master that breeds a man & women as you would swine to sell or slaughter, is better than living under the current government - He know not what he speaks of.

The question here is: Do you (everybody evolved in this discussion) want to associate with a man who thinks as Mr. Bundy does and articulates his position as poorly as he does? I do not.

"His is no master people; he is an exploiter: the Jews are a people of robbers. He has never founded any civilization, though he has destroyed civilizations by the hundred...everything he has stolen. Foreign people, foreign workmen build him his temples, it is foreigners who create and work for him, it is foreigners who shed their blood for him." Adolf Hitler

Was Mr. Hitler a racist or bigot? Would you agree with his premise? Would you want him to represent you and your organization? Would you follow him? I would hope that "who thought they heard such things has let the stigma of certain political incorrectness cloud their judgement."

Just thoughts and comments from an old man at the family redoubt. 


 

 

[Burt Gummer]

Relevant, from my FB feed.

From: Charlie Delta


The media distorts information to the point of social division. This is a photo of myself and the resilient, often charismatic, and maybe not so tactful Cliven Bundy. He's a cowboy and a helluva family man, not an orator. One thing he definitely isn't - a racist. I found his comments to not only be NOT racist, but his own view of his experiences. Who the heck are we to determine another man's perspective on the world around him?! Just because Picasso's view of the world was abstract, does it negate the fact that his art was genuine? Furthermore, if you take the time to do your own research, you'll find that his statements about some black Americans actually hold weight. He posed a hypothetical question. He said, "I wonder IF" ... Hell, I'm black and I often wonder about the same about the decline of the black family. Bottom line is that we are all slaves in this waning republic, no matter our skin color. Mr. Bundy could have used any racial demographic as an example: Native Americans on reservations, whites in trailer parks, etc. He noticed the crippling effects of receiving government "assistance" and the long term result of accepting handouts. It's not progress at all. I challenge Sean Hannity, Rand Paul, and others to read my comment and reconsider their position in this matter. Individual liberties are at stake here, yours and mine. THAT is the issue. Don't let the liberal media and ignoramuses like Glenn Beck and that weasel Harry Reid make you lose sight of the real issue here: The federal government is a burgeoning behemoth and a bully on a once constitutional playground.

I sincerely hope you real patriots out there who can see through the smoke.

[JohnyMac]

Touché Burt! One picture doth not make a man a bigot though

You guys and galls can share all kinds of pictures or statements with the forum and me however, based on what Mr. Bundy said, I do not want him representing me, JohnyMac.

No hard feeling's just my opinion.