Attempt to use Facebook to inspire critical thinking.

[EJR914]

@ Treaded: I did not know about the DHS friend activities. I only had one on there...and it was Sledge's post. LOL

I had considered how controversial it was after I finished but before I posted. I think it's worth it to stimulate thought. I've already posted similar, if somewhat less blatant, posts addressing similar subjects, both on FB and L&L and SP.com. Thanks for the concern, though. 

I'm going on a little rant here so hang with me for a sec-

You know it gets to a point where you know you're on enough lists to not really care anymore.  I was on lists before there was a DHS They know who I am so frankly I don't really care.  But for those that have lived clean I advise them against posting this kind of stuff in the wild.  I'm more of an advocate of working in meatspace when it comes to the Tribe. 

I'll feed you some honest truth here:  The .gov believes that anyone who opposes their little artificial oligarchy is a menace to them.  The current administration wants to vilify ANYONE that opposes their blatant marxist progressive dem agenda.  And they use entities like the SPLC (who has admitted it doesn't even bother addressing the radical left) funded by taxpayer $ to further that message. The OWS kids are "useful idiots" in their campaign.  Seriously - why the fuck would a president support them and state he's against huge corporate profits while charging 35k a plate at a campaign dinner?   Don't get me wrong - the OWS kids are exercising their 1st amendment rights and although I totally disagree with their message and think the majority of them are truly "useful idiots" I support their right to do so.  Look at the organizations that support OWS - labor-unions, the freaking Communist party, the democratic party, the list goes on. 

Don't believe me?  Think about this.  During the Clinton admin the word "militia" became a dirty word.  Now they're pushing for "Constitutionalists" and "Patriot" to be dirty words and succeeding.  Answer this one:  twenty years ago the phrase "Patriot Group" was used to describe organizations like the VFW, Daughters of the American revolution, etc.  Now they use it as a phrase for "domestic terrorist groups". 

Study history - and look at the Communist manifesto.  It's being fulfilled right here in our country.

/rant off

I agree with everything that you said.   [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

With that said, wouldn't it make sense to use those "useful idiots" in the OWS movement, for FreeFor purposes, if at all possible?  I'm not going to spell it all out for you, but I KNOW there are ways we can use these useful idiots for OUR gain.

[Treaded]

Therein lies the problem with "OWS".  Originally OWS had a vastly diverse course of social issues that it voiced that varied regionally and even between cities in the same regions.  But over the course of time the movement has been co-opted by organizations like moveon.org, labor unions,  and their ilk.  If you look at their agenda now it almost solely blames Corporations for the problems in America and almost completely absolves the politicians of guilt.  It doesn't recognize the principles of a Republic instead espousing the anarchic conditions of a straight democracy.

In Russia Stalin effectively used the Proletariat (what we would consider the "99%") to conduct the process of "Dekulakization" which was the purge of not only the remainder of capitalism in Russia but the source of the counter-marxist effort at the time, the Kulaks and "petite bourgeois" (what we would call small business owners).  Those Proletariat "useful idiots" were so fixated in their thinking that no amount of logic or rational argument could turn them.  You're going to find the same thing among what remains of the OWS movement in instances where they want to be absolved of student loans by the taxpayers but refuse to be subjected to that tax burden later on in life when it's their turn to pay. 

I'll give you a quick snapshot of the average OWS'er.  They grew up in a culture that gave them useless things freely and taught the intellectual lie of "no one fails".  That same culture reinforced that authority is responsible for the well being of the person and not the person themself.  Dalrymple summarized it pretty well with a few of his concepts in regards to the state of youth in western civilization:

- The ideology of the Welfare State is used to diminish personal responsibility. Erosion of personal responsibility makes people dependent on institutions and favors the existence of a threatening and vulnerable underclass.

- The root cause of our contemporary cultural poverty is intellectual dishonesty. First, the intellectuals (more specifically, left-wing ones) have destroyed the foundation of culture, and second, they refuse to acknowledge it by resorting to the caves of political correctness.

- An attitude characterized by gratefulness and having obligations towards others has been replaced?with awful consequences?by an awareness of "rights" and a sense of entitlement, without responsibilities. This leads to resentment as the rights become violated by parents, authorities, bureaucracies and others in general

[rah45]

@ Treaded: I definitely see the merit of your argument, but how else do you get the word out? This is a fight for liberty, as EJR has explained, and as such there needs to be pro-liberty propaganda out there, propaganda that the masses are able to understand at the basic level. I suppose I could just write things like that on Microsoft Word and save it on my computer or on a flash drive for later dissemination, but then I have to wonder, at what point does it become acceptable to reveal it? I have no problem showing it to people around me, but that list gets short quickly...there are so many more people to awaken in such a short period of time. The clock is ticking, the government propaganda machine continues to rumble along, and we struggle to convince handfuls of people here and there of the righteousness of our stance. It's even harder to convince them to be willing to philosophically fight for the cause of liberty, much less prepare in any way for a physical conflict in its defense.

I'm no hero, and I never will be. I do what I think is right and try to help others along the way, if I'm able to do so. However, I also know there is a point where advocates of liberty in a nation turning against liberty have to stick out their necks in the struggle if they are to succeed in their mission. Samuel Adams and his band of Patriot propagandists are a good example - they crossed the line from peaceful protestor to active dissenter/propagandist, and knew they might endure consequences from British authorities or Tories. My question is, where is that line drawn? Who draws it? Do we wait until the government "crosses another line?" If they cross many more serious lines, we'll be either in a Communist dictatorship or in a hot civil war. I want to reach people in a meaningful way before we cross the Rubicon. After that point, I think it will mostly be the end of talk and the beginning of more serious actions to defend ourselves and the freedoms we hold dear.

@ Sledge: No, I didn't copy your post. I actually never read it, to my recollection. I think it just shows what you and your friends have said about DHS or other things.

[Treaded]

Brother you don't try to reach everyone.  IMHO you should focus on building tribe in your immediate area.  If or when TSHTF those that already have tribe are a leg up from those that don't.  The liberty argument is truly a valid one but IMHO there's not going to be a stand at Lexington green.  I kind of go into what I perceive to be what's going to happen in my blog (a little self serving I know but worth the read to get your mental gears grinding). 

Why tribe in your immediate area?  In reality we're so blakanized already that any effort at coordinating a widespread effort is IMHO is going to be futile.  I have about as much in common with the average southern Californian as I do with a bulgarian.  People in New York nowadays have little in common with folks in Jawja   etc.. etc..   

If you read up I kind of touch on another phenomena that's happening and that's the migration to the south - it is real and it is happening.  What's going to be left up north is a majority that is dependent on the .gov for it's handouts.  Once again little in common with us Southerners.  You PACORWEST guys are probably seeing the same thing happen with folks moving up from Cali.

Summary:  I'd much rather depend on my neighbor down the road than some guy on the internet 1200 miles away. 

[rah45]

I see your point. Considering that my BOL is actually an hour away, my immediate housing situation being only temporary, I find it hard to see those neighbors as worth taking time out to get to know, probe, and "tribe up" (half of them elderly - one elderly wife beats her husband on monthly basis, complete with ambulance response - LOL). Most of the friends I have on FB (like 90%) are actually people in Georgia, people within a couple hours' drive from me. Many are family and actual friends, not just acquaintances. It is for that closeness, that possible willingness to listen, that I post things like yesterday's brief essay. I don't pretend to be the best writer, but for the seeming lack of a permanent tribe to build around me since I won't be here if SHTF (or even in two years, since we're renting), I attempt to use FB as a medium that many of the people I care about use in order to stimulate thought. Of course, if they "ignore" all my posts by this time it is useless, but I know some of them still do read them.

I've talked to the other family that will be present at my BOL, and who lives there now, about "tribing up" with the neighbors or local neighborhood folks. I was told that the neighbors don't really care, and the head of household (and only one close enough to an "active patriot" in that family) doesn't think it's worth his time to risk speaking to them, in case they remember it when SHTF and decide to come looking for handouts or something. That's one reason I really wanted to go to GAPATCON - to find anyone near my BOL area in order to get better recon on the people in the immediate area.

[Treaded]

Buddie it ain't always easy to build tribe.  One of my neighbors was kicked out of the army back in the day and since I spent my entire adult life up until a year and a half ago as a troop in one form or another he really is cold towards me so I give him his space.  You're not going to get through to everyone and that's just plain reality.  But when shit gets crazy people tend to relook their beliefs - i.e. post 9/11 look how the country was unified.  It may take shit hitting the fan for some, most, or all of them to come around. 

[rah45]

Buddie it ain't always easy to build tribe.  One of my neighbors was kicked out of the army back in the day and since I spent my entire adult life up until a year and a half ago as a troop in one form or another he really is cold towards me so I give him his space.  You're not going to get through to everyone and that's just plain reality.  But when shit gets crazy people tend to relook their beliefs - i.e. post 9/11 look how the country was unified.  It may take shit hitting the fan for some, most, or all of them to come around.

Hmmm...now I'm wondering if writing or gathering a series of essays on the basic liberties of individuals, how societies/tribes should operate together, successfully, with mutual respect and support, would not be a good thing to have. Print out 10 copies of each essential essay, put them all into some cheap, durable plastic folders, and consider them expendable handout materials. Perhaps keep a couple of folders' worth of copies for use as in-house reading. It might make getting others on the same page (i.e., "tribe" starts from personal liberty, working its way up to survival of the community) a bit easier if they can read it on their own time in a format broken down into small, easily digestible parts. It would really help to bolster any verbal interactions, since I know I either say things the wrong way, or omit important topics or instructional steps, when conversing with someone regarding a project or philosophy. I communicate 100% better when I write or type.

[Treaded]

Rah, have you read the stuff I've written on building tribe and tribal politics?  Some of it might help ya a bit. (more self promoting which ain't something I'm fond of).

[rah45]

Rah, have you read the stuff I've written on building tribe and tribal politics?  Some of it might help ya a bit. (more self promoting which ain't something I'm fond of).

I've browsed it, but not spent any in-depth time in study over it. No offense...a full-time job, wife, 5 year old and 2 month old just keep me busy or tired most of the time. Yesterday and today combined has probably been the most time I've been on SP consecutively in a long while. I plan to do more reading this weekend, if I have the free time and don't need the sleep. 

[crudos]

What's going to be left up north is a majority that is dependent on the .gov for it's handouts.

Hey now, us northerners will be just fine up here. Personally I have no desire to migrate south, nor any reason to. Just saying. 

[EJR914]

Therein lies the problem with "OWS".  Originally OWS had a vastly diverse course of social issues that it voiced that varied regionally and even between cities in the same regions.  But over the course of time the movement has been co-opted by organizations like moveon.org, labor unions,  and their ilk.  If you look at their agenda now it almost solely blames Corporations for the problems in America and almost completely absolves the politicians of guilt.  It doesn't recognize the principles of a Republic instead espousing the anarchic conditions of a straight democracy.

In Russia Stalin effectively used the Proletariat (what we would consider the "99%") to conduct the process of "Dekulakization" which was the purge of not only the remainder of capitalism in Russia but the source of the counter-marxist effort at the time, the Kulaks and "petite bourgeois" (what we would call small business owners).  Those Proletariat "useful idiots" were so fixated in their thinking that no amount of logic or rational argument could turn them.  You're going to find the same thing among what remains of the OWS movement in instances where they want to be absolved of student loans by the taxpayers but refuse to be subjected to that tax burden later on in life when it's their turn to pay. 

I'll give you a quick snapshot of the average OWS'er.  They grew up in a culture that gave them useless things freely and taught the intellectual lie of "no one fails".  That same culture reinforced that authority is responsible for the well being of the person and not the person themself.  Dalrymple summarized it pretty well with a few of his concepts in regards to the state of youth in western civilization:

- The ideology of the Welfare State is used to diminish personal responsibility. Erosion of personal responsibility makes people dependent on institutions and favors the existence of a threatening and vulnerable underclass.

- The root cause of our contemporary cultural poverty is intellectual dishonesty. First, the intellectuals (more specifically, left-wing ones) have destroyed the foundation of culture, and second, they refuse to acknowledge it by resorting to the caves of political correctness.

- An attitude characterized by gratefulness and having obligations towards others has been replaced?with awful consequences?by an awareness of "rights" and a sense of entitlement, without responsibilities. This leads to resentment as the rights become violated by parents, authorities, bureaucracies and others in general

I know all that, and yet, that still has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

You only need to control a handful of useful OWS idiots, say 20, for our purposes, so that we can use their idiot antics, for OUR, the FreeFor Gain.

Again, think outside of the box, more like an intelligence operative gaining an asset, using the asset for their purposes and advantage, and then discarding the asset when you have fully used them for YOUR purposes, and think less like an honest FreeFor citizen. 

[Treaded]

Which faction of the OWS would you try to appeal to?  The idealistic or the materialistic?  Do you engage the anarchists wishing to destroy the system by arming them (pretty much a felony that'll send you to jail for the rest of your life and ruin your family) or appeal to the materialists that want more handouts?  Do you have anything of value to them to offer?  Is your ability to change folks thinking strong enough to override an up to that point lifetime worth of programming?  The Tea Party tried it and it didn't work - quiet the opposite the OWS attempt blew up in their faces.  So did the Paulinistas- same end result.  The groups that have succeeded in co-opting OWS are the ones that fundamentally push for the same thing.       

IMHO their values and beliefs are so diametrically opposed to what you would be trying to get them to believe that any effort would have little to no effect.  And that is why the anarchists have yet to get overwhelming support from the OWS - because they oppose what the majority of the OWS crowd believes it really wants.

[NOLA556]

Which faction of the OWS would you try to appeal to?  The idealistic or the materialistic?  Do you engage the anarchists wishing to destroy the system by arming them (pretty much a felony that'll send you to jail for the rest of your life and ruin your family) or appeal to the materialists that want more handouts?  Do you have anything of value to them to offer?  Is your ability to change folks thinking strong enough to override an up to that point lifetime worth of programming?  The Tea Party tried it and it didn't work - quiet the opposite the OWS attempt blew up in their faces.  So did the Paulinistas- same end result.  The groups that have succeeded in co-opting OWS are the ones that fundamentally push for the same thing.       

IMHO their values and beliefs are so diametrically opposed to what you would be trying to get them to believe that any effort would have little to no effect.  And that is why the anarchists have yet to get overwhelming support from the OWS - because they oppose what the majority of the OWS crowd believes it really wants.

same question I've been curious about.

all this talk about "infiltrating" and using them for our purposes. what exactly does that mean? how would we go about infiltrating and using them?
without convincing them that their ideology is deeply flawed, how does anyone plan to "use" them. I'd think the primary focus of using any demographic to your own advantage would require getting their hearts and minds on-board with a liberty-based agenda, which they are 100% opposed to in the first place.

if I'm truly missing something here, then fill me in. please just keep everything above the belt though, no need to freak over a petty discussion.

[EJR914]

Which faction of the OWS would you try to appeal to?  The idealistic or the materialistic?  Do you engage the anarchists wishing to destroy the system by arming them (pretty much a felony that'll send you to jail for the rest of your life and ruin your family) or appeal to the materialists that want more handouts?  Do you have anything of value to them to offer?  Is your ability to change folks thinking strong enough to override an up to that point lifetime worth of programming?  The Tea Party tried it and it didn't work - quiet the opposite the OWS attempt blew up in their faces.  So did the Paulinistas- same end result.  The groups that have succeeded in co-opting OWS are the ones that fundamentally push for the same thing.       

IMHO their values and beliefs are so diametrically opposed to what you would be trying to get them to believe that any effort would have little to no effect.  And that is why the anarchists have yet to get overwhelming support from the OWS - because they oppose what the majority of the OWS crowd believes it really wants.

Anyone that I could use.  I'm not picky.  I would never arm anarchist.  They are free to arm themselves if they want to, but I certainly wouldn't promote it.  I despise so-called idiot anarchist that destroy other people's property or hurt other people.  Also, there are many kinds of anarchist, you are just choosing one type out of the many.  Whatever I would need to offer them, legally, so that it would help me complete my mission.  It could be nothing more than BS, or hey, you wanna tick off some COPS and get away with it?  The thing that you might be too set in your ways to see is that OWS already employs all the techniques that I would need them for.  Before you start having that emotional reaction just from the mere mention of the OWS idiots, try and study some of the tactics that they have employed already, that could be helpful to the success of a FreeFor Mission. 

If you would read my posts, I've already stated very clearly that I am NOT trying to change their minds, NOT ONE BIT.

You're not listening, you're not reading. 

OWS already employs the techniques that could help Freefor successfully complete one of their missions.

I care not of their values, I care not of their beliefs.  Its what they ALREADY do, that I need, all I would need to do is make them do it, at a time that I would need.  That's it.  Infiltration and a little bit of work could make that happen fairly easily I imagine.

You, NOLA, and everyone else here is going to have to put down their raging dislike and hatred of the OWS and anarchist that destroy property, to even come close to being open-minded enough to understand what I am saying or advocating.

[EJR914]

same question I've been curious about.

all this talk about "infiltrating" and using them for our purposes. what exactly does that mean? how would we go about infiltrating and using them?
without convincing them that their ideology is deeply flawed, how does anyone plan to "use" them. I'd think the primary focus of using any demographic to your own advantage would require getting their hearts and minds on-board with a liberty-based agenda, which they are 100% opposed to in the first place.

if I'm truly missing something here, then fill me in. please just keep everything above the belt though, no need to freak over a petty discussion.

You're going to have to put down your searing dislike and hatred of OWS first, then study the tactics they already employ, and then sit down and think what you could be doing, while these OWS idiots are tying up all the police resources of an entire area or city.  All you need is for these two things, to happen at the exact same time, whether by your coordination, or your knowledge of the time.  That's as much as I am willing to say over and open source internet forum. 

Do some serious studying about how the CIA operates abroad.  The tactics.

[rah45]

Okay, while this has been an eventful ride, it has gotten a bit off topic. Treaded has had very important things to say, but the main responses I was looking for aren't really present in this thread.

First: If you do not use FB to "wake up" the masses or debate with other patriots/preppers, what do you use? I use the internet because with my home and family situation it is impossible for me to just get out into the real world and talk to people. This way, I can do it while babysitting my kids, or for fifteen minutes before I have to do the next important household/family thing. If not FB, then what? BlogTV is a given...but most people don't use that - they prefer a written format, as it is generally better thought-out and specific, since the English language is mind-bogglingly complicated, offering five different words for every possible meaning.

Second: I had two people give me feedback on what I wrote...not exactly a lot considering the number of members present. I think what I wrote is decent, but not perfect. I'd like more feedback, considering that I sometimes email things like this to interested parties, and because writing these miniature essays is a way of transcribing my own thoughts in a manner I can better understand and remember. Debate over it only increasing my defense of its validity, or causes me to further revise my opinion and knowledge towards a better end. So...more opinions, please?

[Treaded]

Rah what you wrote is sound and thought provoking.  You writing and thoughts are more than good enough to warrant publishing.  But I will warn you - the whole movement can suck you in and sour you if you're not careful. In the end you'll have to choose your medium and each one of them have their positives and negatives.  The medium I deal in (the "blogosphere") is a really strange one but what I'm familiar with so I'll address it.  For those familiar with the whole "Patriot blogosphere" it's a really diverse medium.  There are sights that present original constructive methodology type content (Mosbys Nous-Defions is a great example) Aggregators (i.e. Balkos Agitator which pulls articles from all over the place mixed with original content), the mega community blogs (JWRs Survivalblog is the monster of them - I get over 1000 reads a day off of his site), and then those that go all over the place.  It's kind of become an ad-hoc network of sights.  That being said there is also currently a lot of divisiveness going on.  Do me a favor and read the blog entry and then read through the comments made at CAs WRSA on an entry he wrote.

http://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2012/05/17/slaves-women-and-freedom/

The temperament of those comments are telling but there's something unique about that whole thread.  The majority of those folks are "Patriot Bloggers".  I've watched a couple of them get drug into the whole schoolyard slap fest between blogs accusing each other of everything from being a snitch to being a commie or felon.  There's a lot of egos at work and some of them get bruised way too easily.  If you do decide to blog it might be a good idea to think about setting standards for yourself especially when it comes to reblogging or linking to some of these blogs.

Like I said your piece is solid in both content and thought.  If you take the time to look over each medium and do a little research you'll be ok.



     

[crudos]

Rah, I can come up with nothing of note about the grammar or structure of your article. All that seems fine. But what media to get your ideas onto is another question. I don't think FB is the right venue for expanded monologues on any subject. You could go the route of starting a group or page (or whatever it's called now) on FB and try that. Treaded is probably closest with using the blog format, and is pretty much exactly what blogs where made for. Unfortunately, imo, a well-done blog is one that is updated pretty regularly and that can take a fair amount of time, especially if you can only be online for short amounts of time as you stated. You could just start a thread here on SP to collect your writings until you find a better venue for what your trying to accomplish. So yeah, that's my couple of thoughts. I definitely think you should keep on writing whenever you can and further develop your ideas and thoughts.

[NOLA556]

Rah, I can come up with nothing of note about the grammar or structure of your article. All that seems fine. But what media to get your ideas onto is another question. I don't think FB is the right venue for expanded monologues on any subject. You could go the route of starting a group or page (or whatever it's called now) on FB and try that. Treaded is probably closest with using the blog format, and is pretty much exactly what blogs where made for. Unfortunately, imo, a well-done blog is one that is updated pretty regularly and that can take a fair amount of time, especially if you can only be online for short amounts of time as you stated. You could just start a thread here on SP to collect your writings until you find a better venue for what your trying to accomplish. So yeah, that's my couple of thoughts. I definitely think you should keep on writing whenever you can and further develop your ideas and thoughts.

 [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co I think that analysis is pretty much dead on.

[rah45]

Thanks, guys. I don't believe I have enough information in me to do a blog worth its salt, but on the occasion that I do write something worth reading, I'll post here.