Unchained Preppers
Off Topic/ B.S. => General Off Topic => Topic started by: special-k on March 21, 2014, 12:00:40 AM
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The most honest three and a half minutes of television... ever.
The most honest three and a half minutes of television, EVER... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16K6m3Ua2nw#ws)
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WOW! Special-K that was brilliant! What movie did that come from?
I don't think whether you are liberal, moderate or conservative, you can't argue with what the man said. WOW!
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It's from a HBO series called "The Newsroom." This was the opening scene for the series. Don't get too excited about it... I watched some other scenes and it was quite sneakily socialist leaning (i.e. against mandatory voter ID amongst other BS propaganda.)
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DAMN!
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Not socialist, progressive and modern. Different perspectives. I haven't watched the show, but I do ADORE that scene.
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Call it what you will, it still ends with a guy with a gun C:-) coming to my house telling me that I need to give him money or do something I don't want to do. But it's for my own good that he's prepared to shoot me because of it.
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Call it what you will, it still ends with a guy with a gun C:-) coming to my house telling me that I need to give him money or do something I don't want to do. But it's for my own good that he's prepared to shoot me because of it.
Come on, Burt. Everyone who has met you (directly or indirectly) knows that while you mean well, you're about as smart as a rock. In fact, the rock might have a couple of extra brain cells compared to you. The government is here to help...just do what they say, then you can go back to drooling and letting your eyes roll into the back of your head. There's a good boy!! :trolling:
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Very powerful...
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I am quite accustomed to socialists who claim to not be socialists. "These aren't the droids you're looking for."
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(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRMlAGIAcJHOip_uIVoHhQnjvpXU7DOOj4gX_N8SpBQGSe8lXI5)
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:lmfao:
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRMlAGIAcJHOip_uIVoHhQnjvpXU7DOOj4gX_N8SpBQGSe8lXI5)
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Bump, keep this post alive - all should see it. C:-)
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So lets change things. Hurry everyone vote to force the other 49% to submit to your will... that's GOT to work.... then the hired guns will be pointing at them for 4 years and not us.... its going to be awesome. ..
Unfortunately they are still aimed at everyone... you can vote to point them wherever you want... its still wrong... never have voted, never will.... im not interested in running other people's lives. Stop voting on whether I can be free or not... im not doing it to you...
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I'm glad that you get it.
No amount of political action can grant you what it is designed to take away by definition. This is why liberty has steadily declined for the last 231 years and not progressed beyond it's initial point.
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Right on Kentactic. :cheers:
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Unfortunately they are still aimed at everyone... you can vote to point them wherever you want... its still wrong... never have voted, never will.... im not interested in running other people's lives. Stop voting on whether I can be free or not... im not doing it to you...
No amount of political action can grant you what it is designed to take away by definition. This is why liberty has steadily declined for the last 231 years and not progressed beyond it's initial point.
So how do you gentlemen suggest we all come to consensus on how to share our space? That's essentially what government is, especially a republic or democracy. We all vote for our representatives, the people who ideally should represent our wishes, to join a (theoretically) consensus-based group to help decide on the rules by which we (again, theoretically) all agree to abide. If we don't have some sort of consensus method, which is essentially what government is, how can so many of us live together in so small a space?
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The thing is we have never really been able to see a stateless society in our lifetimes. It's hard to imagine one without. But I would point to the internet as a shining example. The internet is achieving amazing things in such a short sapn of time without centralized control or law.
So how do you gentlemen suggest we all come to consensus on how to share our space?
The non aggression principle with a hefty tea spoon of common sense on top.
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America is "not so small a space." You ever taken an airline flight? The majority of the American Landmass is sparsely populated. Most population concentration is on big cities on either coast. Visit rural California, Texas, anywhere in the Midwest, and you will see we're not overpopulated. The schmucks make fun of us as "flyover." Guess where 90+ percent of your food and energy needs come from? Us dumb Midwest hicks and farmers. :bravo:
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The non-aggression principle is a good start. I talked poorly of it not so long ago because it was incorrectly explained to me. Once I did my own research it basically boils down to the common sense of dont hurt me and I wont hurt you back.
If nobody ever physically attacks me or mine, or messes with me or mines property, im good to go.
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"Democracy" such a big and tragic historical topic I hope I can adequately put it in context for you.
That's essentially what government is, especially a republic or democracy.
Western civilization (arguably now world civilization) is build of classical history (Greece derived) And anyone interested in any part of history should study it because all those involved in the period you are interested in did.
Prior to ancient Greece "civilization" was headed by Despotic, Monarchic & Theocratic forms of State control Such as Babylonian, Assyrian, Egyptian but to name a few. This stretched from Greece across Asia minor into the Arabian peninsula and Africa. These states were super massive relative to their time.
Except for in the Greek peninsula (Know as Mycenae at the time) It's mountainous geography, including it's isles prevented centralized State control for a long time. This hindered a ruler from assembling an army large enough to conquer it's neighbors effectively (although it was tried).
The people in these small countries or Polis established trade with each other, in ways not possible in the neighboring empires. despite being separated by mountains and unfriendly coastlines.
This bore fruit to birth of Art and Philosophy. "Bah humbug!" You might say but this is what caused their civilization (not empire or country) to flourish. It allowed for reason to be defined and the scientific method to be created, (Everything you enjoy today hinges on this) It's art allowed them as a region to self identify through poetry and literature, and it endeared them to others (which eventually backfired)
The classical birthplace of democracy is no doubt Athens it governed it's people through a popular vote although it had a king. This new model allowed it's governments ruler to govern by consent and not fiat. Which allowed him to focus his military / militia outside of his kingdom and not have to police his own dissidents. Athens's influence and treasury swelled and it created a voluntary/strong armed "League" of "independent" states headed by Athens (Which later inspired the league of nations).
By this time Athens was still prosperous but it was an empire. It created it's famous public works projects that still stand today. Not soon after it's government spend more then it could take in from it's "allies" and began inflating it's currency to make up for it (sound familiar?) Soon after it collapsed and was conquered by Sparta and never again became of any significance.
But "Greece" would still become an empire as was afterwards conquered in part by Macedon (Alexander's dad) because of his love for the Greek Culture) Which later on this was absorbed by Rome etc...
We all vote for our representatives, the people who ideally should represent our wishes, to join a (theoretically) consensus-based group to help decide on the rules by which we (again, theoretically) all agree to abide.
Say we live in a country with 10 people.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
one of which is the ruler.
C:-) ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
We the nine are to vote on the construction of a building benefiting only some.
C:-) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D >:( >:( >:( >:(
The vote passed and we now have a public building. Six benefited while Four did not. The Four were forced to pay and suffer a loss for that of the other Six stand to gain from.
This is called Tyranny of the Majority also known as Democracy.
We in the US have a "Republic" which is a governmental system of checks an balances using the democratic method.
This makes us feel special.
C:-) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
A vote is called for a public building.
C:-) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
We now have a building that benefits some but not others but that's ok we live in a "Republic"
C:-) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) ???
War has just been declared by your duly elected go fight for your freedom. (lower class males 18-64 need only apply)
C:-) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) :o ??? >:(
That war sure was expensive Good thing we all can all bear the national debt.
C:-) :-\ ??? :( :( :( :( :( >:( >:(
Our economy is doing terrible, this is totally not related to the taxes, I blame that rich guy!
C:-) ;D ;D ;D ??? ??? >:( >:( >:( >:(
Some of you guys are still rich and we should share, sharing is good.
C:-) ??? :o :o :o >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
We are having a problem with violent extrimists that kill babies, watch your local news good comr..citizens!
:boltAction: :boltAction: :gunner: :gunner: :gunner: :gunner: C:-) :-X :-X :-[
While this is highly simplified the premise remains the same. Only one guy smiles (benefits) the whole time.
So how do you gentlemen suggest we all come to consensus on how to share our space?
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If we don't have some sort of consensus method, which is essentially what government is, how can so many of us live together in so small a space?
"Hello Mrs. Witch I noticed you have a bunch gorgeous rhubarb stalks for sale. How much?"
"Oh perfect, these will go into making sweet rolls for my customers."
"Hello Mr. Burt The usual sweet roll it is?"
"Boy that roll was great let me get back to building these motors for my boss."
"Yes Mr. John Deere your order of motors are ready. I can now afford to pay my employees more."
"At last the latest John Deere model is here to sell to my customers! 25% off store wide!"
"Yes Mrs. Witch your latest tractor is ready for delivery. Boy the rhubarb business sure is booming."
Now I'm only assuming that you grow rhubarb but the rest is factual. I don't know you but if you'd choose to buy a whole host of products I and millions of others benefit from your voluntary choice. This time there are no winners at the cost of others. It is in fact the only moral way of coexistence.
And if you choose to make a rhubarb product this summer/fall why don't we cut out the middle men and I'll buy it from you.
“History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme.” - Mark Twain
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Great analogy Burt let me add this:
The founding fathers wanted a weak central government (lets call it Federal) that basically only existed to protect it's borders (Includes shipping) from foreign invaders, to represent the States by negotiating with other countries, and to settle disputes between States.
States were to be treated as sovereign nations (Until the American Civil War) who was made up of representatives from the Local Governments within the state. The State would pass laws based on the locally elected representatives sent to the State Legislature. That includes assigning taxes to maintain the infrastructure of the state, pass laws to protect their citizenry and promote the general welfare of the state.
If the local representative didn't do the will of the people they were voted out in the next election or in some cases were hung for failure to do the will of the people.
Disagreements between citizens were worked out in State courts. Disagreement between States were worked out in the Federal courts on up to the SCOTUS. After all we were a nation of laws. We are no longer a nation of laws as is evident of AG Holder and Pres. Obama ignoring many laws of the land.
States lost their sovereignty post the American Civil War. The real reason for the Civil War was because President Lincoln and the Republican party was imposing Federal rule over the states. Specifically, slavery. There were other examples but do not receive the same press as slavery.
Once the Federal Government won the War Between the States we started on a path different from the vision of the founding fathers. Wrong, right or indifferent. That event in our history changed the roll of the Federal Government from a protector to a suppresser to the point we are today.
Just think about all of the things the Federal Government forces you to do:
> The Federal Government makes you to pay taxes to support "their" goals and plans.
> The Federal Governments forces your sons to sign up for "their" wars.
> The Federal Government dictates what kind of firearm you are allowed to own even if YOU BUILD IT FROM
scratch yourself.
> The Federal Government tells my neighbors that they can not sell raw milk to people who want to buy it.
> The Federal Government tells you that you can only drive a car that gets X MPG
> The Federal Government taxes farmers on how many cows they own because of cow flatulence.
> The Federal Government forces you to buy health insurance.
> The Federal Government insert example here.
My point is that the USofA has moved from the original vision of small Federal Government with strong State and Local Governments to what we have today. A Large statist government, surviving by keeping you under their thumb via regulation and taking the money you earn to feed the beast.
With that all written I would like to answer some of your valid questions Wellie. Here we go...
Wellie wrote, I expressed my opinion:
So how do you gentlemen suggest we all come to consensus on how to share our space? That's essentially what government is, especially a republic or democracy. It's not the Federal Governments job to do this. That is why we have laws. Laws that were voted on and put in place by your locally elected representatives.We all vote for our representatives, the people who ideally should represent our wishes, to join a (theoretically) consensus-based group to help decide on the rules by which we (again, theoretically) all agree to abide. Yes but not Federal but State. As an example, PA. is different than CA.If we don't have some sort of consensus method, which is essentially what government is, how can so many of us live together in so small a space?Laws are how we live along side our neighbors. Laws NOT REGULATION is how we live alongside our neighbors. Laws voted on and enacted by our local and state representatives not by decree of a Federal Government.
Just my opinion...
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Gummer you overthink shit just to prove a point. If we lived in a vacuum, you would be spot on. But some of us have to shovel rotten grain and work an elevator for a living (albeit a high-wage living). I haven't seen a recent paradigm better than the Ron Paul "back to the Constitution" idea. At current. we are a REPUBLIC IN NAME ONLY. Smoke that over for awhile.
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You wanna see extreme hardships yet extreme awards for enduring it? Try North Dakota for awhile. The locals have betting pools on how long certain individuals considered "out-of-state" labor will last. I've been here almost a year. They already lost their money on this stubborn Pollack.
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Ive gotten various job offers for small jobs or help etc... they always say "its not much but its something". My response is "whatever it is ive worked harder for less". I literally make the Mexicans look like slackers.
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Ive gotten various job offers for small jobs or help etc... they always say "its not much but its something". My response is "whatever it is ive worked harder for less". I literally make the Mexicans look like slackers.
???
You must work pretty damn hard.
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You wanna see extreme hardships yet extreme awards for enduring it? Try North Dakota for awhile. The locals have betting pools on how long certain individuals considered "out-of-state" labor will last. I've been here almost a year. They already lost their money on this stubborn Pollack.
If I was single and nothing tied me down to Georgia, I'd consider moving up there for a while and seeing how I liked it. I always wondered if working in an environment like that wouldn't be the smartest thing to do. Bust your ass, spend little, save up your money to buy/pay off a good vehicle and all the odds and ends you'll need for the next couple of decades, then save up more for some property and a house (or something posing as a house). When you came back, you'd have no debts, and would just need a "cushion" job to maintain your standard of living and prep for the future/retirement. I like the idea of having your own well, solar/electricity, etc. and only having to pay property/vehicle taxes. That's about as close to "freedom" as most people will ever get.
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Ive gotten various job offers for small jobs or help etc... they always say "its not much but its something". My response is "whatever it is ive worked harder for less". I literally make the Mexicans look like slackers.
???
You must work pretty damn hard.
You better believe it. That wasn't intended to be a jab at mexicans. Anyone who has worked with true Mexicans from Mexico cannot deny that they work very hard, generally speaking.
Never in my life have I had an employer tell me I work slow or that im lazy. Every single one is sorry to see me go. Im not trying to toot my own horn but since its the internet oh well lol. I always under sell myself and over-perform.
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Gummer you overthink shit just to prove a point. If we lived in a vacuum, you would be spot on. But some of us have to shovel rotten grain and work an elevator for a living (albeit a high-wage living). I haven't seen a recent paradigm better than the Ron Paul "back to the Constitution" idea. At current. we are a REPUBLIC IN NAME ONLY. Smoke that over for awhile.
I think you are getting the wrong notion from my explanation Mr. Stare. In my experience complex political discussion always derail because people define and understand terms differently. I only attempted to start at "0" and work up from there with Mrs. Which.
Also it appears that we see thing eye to eye politically with regards to Ron Paul. But I wonder if you share his economic views, you having a degree in the subject yourself.
I first "got" Ron Paul after I read the economic treatise Human Action (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Action) which he is a big fan of. As it explains the basis of all economic activity through out history.
Also I love how you are about the 100th person to tell me I "over think things". I've come to take it as a compliment so thank you very much, made my evening/morning. ;D
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Never in my life have I had an employer tell me I work slow or that im lazy. Every single one is sorry to see me go. Im not trying to toot my own horn but since its the internet oh well lol. I always under sell myself and over-perform.
Wait until you get fired for being "too good" at your job. And watch the guys who feel entitled to on demand smoke breaks take it as a justification for the way they "work".
It'll give you the blues real bad. :-\
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Burt wrote:
Wait until you get fired for being "too good" at your job.
That is so true Burt! When I was let-go from West Marine after helping to grow a 13 store chain on the west coast to a 440 store chain located in three countries over a 19 year span, my boss told me that I was the best VP he had ever worked with. :facepalm: I never figured out that comment. Then why can my ass?
I figured it out later of course when the new CEO basically canned all the senior folks of the company but 3. By the way, the stock went from $18- per share when I left to $3- a share three years later when the board canned his sorry ass. :lmfao: