Author Topic: The Philosophy of Liberty  (Read 951 times)

Offline NOLA556

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The Philosophy of Liberty
« on: March 17, 2012, 12:26:30 AM »
GREAT video that "dumbs it down" quite a bit for those members of society who struggle to understand the concepts of liberty. (and I'm not just talking about liberals.... take heed you war-mongering neo-cons, religious zealots, and blindly patriotic FOX-followers)

!
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Offline Kentactic

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Re: The Philosophy of Liberty
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2012, 11:20:35 AM »
Interesting...but essentially it just said if you see iran pointing a nuke at you then you cant have others return fire on your behalf until it has hit our land. "oh no its their right to point nukes anywhere they want" ... "oh wait its been fired...well they have every right to fire a nuke into the air aslong as it dosent hit our land"... It would be interesting to just see what would happen if everyone assumed everyone else had good intentions and would respect others liberty. I feel that there IS more good than evil in this world but if all the good people just watched the Evil ones do evil because they dont want to take away their liberties then the evil would wipe out the good.

"Evil prevails when good men do nothing"
« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 11:22:27 AM by Kentactic »
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Offline EJR914

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Re: The Philosophy of Liberty
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2012, 12:20:52 PM »
Great video, NOLA, and it explains Ron Paul's principles perfectly.  He is neither Republican or Democrat.  He just stands for liberty.

Offline NOLA556

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Re: The Philosophy of Liberty
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2012, 12:57:10 PM »
Interesting...but essentially it just said if you see iran pointing a nuke at you then you cant have others return fire on your behalf until it has hit our land. "oh no its their right to point nukes anywhere they want" ... "oh wait its been fired...well they have every right to fire a nuke into the air aslong as it dosent hit our land"... It would be interesting to just see what would happen if everyone assumed everyone else had good intentions and would respect others liberty. I feel that there IS more good than evil in this world but if all the good people just watched the Evil ones do evil because they dont want to take away their liberties then the evil would wipe out the good.

"Evil prevails when good men do nothing"

i don't think that was the intent of the video.

here's the best analogy I can think of at the moment:

Iran is one guy walking on the street and we are another guy walking the other way on the same street. We are very paranoid of this other guy as we see him approaching from the opposite direction. We have very vague and unclear "reason" to suspect that this other guy may possibly have evil intentions as he approaches. Maybe his hands are in his pockets and his eyes are shifty and nervous. A preemptive strike on Iran would be like our character on the street pulling out a shotgun from under our trench coat and blowing the guys head off simply because his shifty eyes made us nervous. "he could have had a gun or knife in his pocket" our character says, attempting to justify his own aggression.

I know the world can't be overly simplified this way but it is at least a bit interesting to break it down into these simple terms and view it as a one -on-one human interaction.

now let's take the analogy one step further. let's say this other man did in fact have a gun in his pocket. Let's say that this man has been beaten and mugged over and over again throughout his life and he carries a handgun to defend himself with. Does his possession of a weapon (which we still aren't aware of) automatically mean that he's going to pull it out and shoot us? Now, what are the odds that he will pull his gun if our character stops him on the street. Our character begins showing classic traits of a mugger. In his own mind, our guy doesn't view himself as evil because he thinks he's keeping the street safe from this suspicious man, but how would a third-party view this confrontation? Our character has the self-righteous attitude that he is the policeman of this street when in fact he has no more authority to police this street than anyone else does. Blinded by his own self-righteousness, he doesn't see himself as the bully that he really is. He sees himself as a hero, and now he's waiting for the next shifty-eyed pedestrian to pass by so he can fill that guy's face with buckshot too.

bottom line: all cute little stories and analogies aside, Iran is a despicable country, I don't deny that. (that goes for most of those sand-boxes over there too, not just Iran) Their abuses of women and basic human rights is nauseating. But as far as our own national security is concerned, they would have no reason to launch any kind of attack on us if we'd just leave them the fuck alone.

and getting past all this Iran stuff... I interpreted the video differently all together. I think it was aimed at introducing these ideas on an individual level, not a national level. I'll admit, the video is a bit "utopian". It's a pipe-dream for sure, but why not strive for a positive freedom-oriented attitude? The whole world will never wake up to these truths, but America is supposed to set the example, aren't we?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 01:13:00 PM by NOLA556 »
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Offline Kentactic

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Re: The Philosophy of Liberty
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2012, 03:47:05 PM »
well the part where i got a greater scale opinion is when the video brought up "no matter how many people are behind this group to attack". as far as the guy walking down the street a smart guy would just cross the street before he walked upon him. the problem with that analogy with iran is there is no way to move the country a safe distance away. and in my opinion in your analogy the guy thinking hes cleaning up the streets is totally in the wrong. now if they were both barried to there knees in concrete 5 ft away from each other and the guy keeps doing something behind his back that looks suspicious id say take some sort of action. 

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Offline NOLA556

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Re: The Philosophy of Liberty
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2012, 04:38:20 PM »
well the part where i got a greater scale opinion is when the video brought up "no matter how many people are behind this group to attack". as far as the guy walking down the street a smart guy would just cross the street before he walked upon him. the problem with that analogy with iran is there is no way to move the country a safe distance away. and in my opinion in your analogy the guy thinking hes cleaning up the streets is totally in the wrong. now if they were both barried to there knees in concrete 5 ft away from each other and the guy keeps doing something behind his back that looks suspicious id say take some sort of action.

how about if they're buried to the knees in concrete and one guy keeps systematically compromising every key strategic position surrounding the other?
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Offline NOLA556

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Re: The Philosophy of Liberty
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2012, 04:49:07 PM »
kenny, think about how every time Ahmedinijad (however you spell that goofy name) or some other crazy world leader says something even remotely threatening to the U.S. or Israel... everyone on this forum, and guys like us all over the country, goes all ape-shit and is ready to make a mad dash for the fallout shelter. everyone loves to quote the Iranian president saying something to the effect of "wipe Israel off the map" or whatever he said...

Imagine being on the other side of this coin:
Iran War Propaganda


I KNOW I KNOW, it's RT, but the clips and soundbites weren't fabricated.
Imagine if we had this level of blatant threats coming at us on a daily basis... from a nation 100x more powerful, who has the most nuclear weapons in the world, who is the only country in the world who has ever actually dropped one on another country before, who is very obviously taking control of every key strategic position surrounding us, who has been meddling in our affairs since the 50's...
Rome is burning, and Obama is playing the fiddle - GAP

Offline Kentactic

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Re: The Philosophy of Liberty
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2012, 05:35:56 PM »
Dont get me wrong NOLA i support Irans liberty to do as they wish aslong as it dosent affect anyone elses liberties. and that includes having nuclear weapons. but if i were the president and i had one on one conversations with the leaders there and got a feel of the kind of people they were and it didnt sit right in my gut id be keeping a close eye on them. me being just some guy in CA i cant really decide what kind of people they are. but their liberties go out the window like a drunk guy looking for trouble in a bar if they dont sit right with my gut. personally my gut rarely lets me down on telling what kind of person some one is. in this case i dont think the average citizen really can have much to say on the details of what to do.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 10:52:05 PM by Kentactic »
Simplicity Is Ideal...

Offline WhiteWolf

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Re: The Philosophy of Liberty
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2012, 10:18:01 PM »
  :-X Out of respect for some members here I'll keep my views on this topic to myself as I would have a STRONG religious bias. Noted? Hope so. Carry on.
"You must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessing."
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Offline sledge

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Re: The Philosophy of Liberty
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2012, 10:36:02 PM »
  :-X Out of respect for some members here I'll keep my views on this topic to myself as I would have a STRONG religious bias. Noted? Hope so. Carry on.


LOL!   WW you have strong religious views about every subject.   [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co



In the pursuit of liberty, many will fall. In the pursuit of fascism, many will be against the wall..........   Courtesy of Xydaco

Offline WhiteWolf

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Re: The Philosophy of Liberty
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2012, 11:03:41 PM »
  :-X Out of respect for some members here I'll keep my views on this topic to myself as I would have a STRONG religious bias. Noted? Hope so. Carry on.


LOL!   WW you have strong religious views about every subject.   

If I ever don't you should probably be worried lol.
"You must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessing."
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1000meterstare

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Re: The Philosophy of Liberty
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2012, 12:26:10 AM »
The whole Iran thing this being manufactured and overblown.  They have zero power projection capabilities.  Back in the heyday Cuba had a bunch more power projection (Landing and Assault Brigade - look it up) in the Caribbean than Iran will ever have in the Middle East.  Weapons of Mass Destruction 2.0.  If the American people believe this rubbish they deserve what they get.  I won't be part of it.

Offline NOLA556

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Re: The Philosophy of Liberty
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2012, 12:12:13 PM »
I agree with 1000meterstare completely.

I work with a native Iranian, and she still has family there.  I often ask her questions about what is going on.  She will not return for a visit to see her own family due to risks of being barred from leaving to come back to the U.S., but she is clear that much of the news covers "saber rattling" of the political powers simply to increase nationalism.  Many fall for that sort of thing, even we do it to ourselves here in the U.S.  Having an "enemy" to fear is like purple cool-aid to many folks.

Most folks do not realize that Iran was once a fairly "metropolitan" nation, until the religious extremists took over.  Many folks from there, or who live there, are well educated and desire the freedoms that we take for granted.  I would even dare to say they are a much more advanced society than Iraq.

I hope we can reign in this escalation, but it seems to me Iran is simply utilizing a "delay and stall" strategy.  Meaning, every time the Western powers get really amped up, they say they will allow U.N. inspectors to visit, then prevent them a full investigation.  They are following North Korea's playbook exactly, to the point that I would not be surprised if Iran tests a nuke within the next 2-5 years.  Worrisome, yes.

I also believe we are ignorant to think that as societies advance in other nations (and they will), that they will not seek some level of defensive assurances utilizing nukes as a deterrent for invasion.  The problem is, if the truly maniacal extremists take power (as is a risk in nuclear weaponized Pakistan), they may not have any hesitation of utilizing nukes or providing them to a terrorist network.

Israel on the other hand, has good reason to be on the verge of a preemptive strike.  If Mexico or Canada was actively supporting terrorist insurgents in the U.S., made open threats against the U.S., and then actively pursued nuke potential... what would we be doing?

Just my thoughts, I am certainly not a world expert on the intentions of others.  Interesting times to come for sure.  Silly humans.

Regards,

Walker

I think this is the most reasonable post yet. you touch on both sides of the argument nicely.

Rome is burning, and Obama is playing the fiddle - GAP