Global Warming - WHAT?

[JohnyMac]

O-kay folks it is 51 degrees at the cabin this evening and the weather report predicts it will get down to the mid 40's tonight.

It's a bit chilly in the cabin so MrsMac asked me to build a fire in the wood stove which of course I did. This will be the third time this month we have built a fire in the wood stove!

So what gives with this global warming climate change crap? 

[Burt Gummer]

It's obviously your fault by burning all that silly wood, creates smoke ya know...
Which hello.... is carbon dioxide poison! They should like ban that stuff, like make a law or something...

 

[thatGuy]

You're much too smart of a man to disavow a whole branch of science's finding because of antidotal evidence.


 

[Burt Gummer]

I don't see the dancing troll guy...
You serious bra? 

[JohnyMac]

When I lived in Seattle, they would have BAN BURN Days. The only folks who were allowed to use their wood stove/fireplace/etc. were folks who's heat was derived by said heating devises in their home.

[thatGuy]

Dead serious.

I can walk into my own back yard and prove to you that the climate is changing, I can sit down with you and talk about that pond you used to skate across on Thanksgiving and how it doesn't freeze until mid December, we can talk about record breaking highs, lows, droughts and storms because it is all right there in front of us.

Science made a critical mistake when they called it Global Warming, that allowed everyone to question their work the second they experienced seasonal lows but it doesn't change the very real effect that man has had on this planet.

[Burt Gummer]

Dead serious.

I can walk into my own back yard and prove to you that the climate is changing, I can sit down with you and talk about that pond you used to skate across on Thanksgiving and how it doesn't freeze until mid December, we can talk about record breaking highs, lows, droughts and storms because it is all right there in front of us.

Science made a critical mistake when they called it Global Warming, that allowed everyone to question their work the second they experienced seasonal lows but it doesn't change the very real effect that man has had on this planet.

Okay I see where the misunderstanding is.

Global Warming / Climate Change to me and i'm assuming Jmac means the UN lead claim of "Anthroprogenic Climate Change"
Remember we're dealing with politicians here.
So they present the Problem. The climate is changing drastically because of us!
Illicit the Reaction. Places are flooding! Animals are dying!
And give the Solution. It's the green house gas carbon monoxide that is causing this.  See Hegelian Dialectic also the definition. And Modern Context
Therefore we must allow government control & regulation of anything that produces it. IE: fuels, power, livestock, you... i'm not making this up.
They've (the scientists) have been caught twice now fudging the carbon monoxide - climate change, link data. Subsequently a great deal of the researchers with some spine left, disavowed it.

Then there's the other issue that you are witnessing the climate is changing but is it because of guys like you or me? or something else.

[Kbop]

Howdy all:
seems to me that the climate is changing.  at this point it really doesn't matter why. 
If we are approaching a tipping point the affects will accelerate with or without human input into the situation.  if the C4 C3 plants in a  given area start failing to thrive the food chain takes a hit and we're along for the ride.  The added energy into the biosphere is still going to be a weather problem regardless how it got there.  Politicos and business men and Tree Huggers and Fundamentalist Christians and (fill in your own POV) can argue all day about who & How.  but I agree with thatGuy, it is here now.  Mother Nature doesn't really care about politics.
My 2¢ worth.

[thatGuy]

I dig that there are political gains to be made but the pinion trees are already dying in New Mexico...

[JohnyMac]

Burt hit the proverbial nail right on the head!

Is the climate change I ask? Well of course it is. The climate on our earth is a living breathing animal and will change because of man or not. Let's look back to most resent times when the earth was experiencing a small ice age due to a decrease of energy from the sun . This period started in the 1300 and ended in the middle 1800's.

So will I argue that the climate is changing no. Will I support Politian's claim it is because of you and me no again.

Politian's have a need to "control" and attempt to make us do what "they think" is right.

Just writing out loud here and my poor attempt at explaining my opinion is not directed to anybody in general other than Al Gore. 

[Kbop]

  looks like methane is starting to come out of the artic now - it is no longer a seasonal anomaly.  reference NOAA & NASA

reference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis
  I shouldn't have read that book.  looks like the IPCC report was way to optimistic.  It looks like the positive feedback if greater than guessed in the 1990's.  if this is true then we can expect the estimates for 2100 to occur by 2045.  The problems would be sea level rise and weather changes happening within 20-30 years, not 100 years.  faster than coastal cities could adapt.
This would be a major annoyance for the first world and play havoc with our economy.
This would be a disaster for the third world.
-
I wonder if I should start planting olive trees here at 40deg north lat.

[Erick]

Dead serious.

I can walk into my own back yard and prove to you that the climate is changing, I can sit down with you and talk about that pond you used to skate across on Thanksgiving and how it doesn't freeze until mid December, we can talk about record breaking highs, lows, droughts and storms because it is all right there in front of us.

Science made a critical mistake when they called it Global Warming, that allowed everyone to question their work the second they experienced seasonal lows but it doesn't change the very real effect that man has had on this planet.

Quoted for truth !

[Shadow]

http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=13459

Read this -

[Nemo]

Enough on both sides that either is right.  But when those who say its true do not allow discussion or bother to listen to to the other side, it seems to me they are hiding something.

Nemo

[JohnyMac]

Good article Shadow. Thx for sharing 

Not unlike what Nemo wrote, I hate it when folks will not allow you to debate whether it is man made or naturally occurring climate change. I think there is climate change happening around us however naturally occurring.

I have read several times that we are moving into a small ice age not unlike the the mid to late 1700's or 1800's. This year the Farmers Almanac predicts a tougher winter for the NE then last year. Brrrrr!

[Kbop]

Shadow, thanks for the post. 

I do find it interesting but it ignores Fourier's theory - as applied to the Earth.  Mars' atmosphere is so thin that Fourier is a much smaller part of the equation.  Even if solar radiation is going to change or is changing - and it does so within historical norms - the earth will still retain more energy based on the amount of CO2 and CH4 in the atmosphere.  It's how people talk about terraforming Mars and why changing Venus is beyond our current theoretical horizon.  The time scales are also very different - centuries for the irradiance variation and decades for the gas composition problem.  Another interesting note - the time scale mentioned overlaps the 'Year without a summer' <1816> definitely very cold and the middle ages 'little ice age' - three main events spaced over 200 years. And, several heating events - there were vineyards in Scotland during part of this time.  this is a sporadic signaling event, not a constant force.  if you impose one over the other - the little ice age over today's temperature norms - it pushes us back to the temps of the 1950's but not the weather of the 1950's.  The problem is; one force (Sol varying radiance) is linear and the methane hydrate melting would be a fast pulse leading to a exponential event.  leading to another melting and another pulse followed by another exponential pulse of heating.

the math is pretty straight forward.   temperature of a black body is <energy in> minus radiated and reflected energy.  If that number is positive it gets hotter.  Green house gases keep energy from being radiated out as fast.  an example is Venus' surface temperature. around 860F or 460C - the atmosphere is more dense than Earth's and mostly CO2.  It is much hotter than would be expected just from solar radiation.  Mars - very faint CO2 atmosphere -  absorbs heat on the day side and radiates it back into space on the dark side.  Earth sits in between - distance from Sol and atmosphere density.  The same theory applies.  the radiance signal is much larger for Mars in comparison to Venus.  We aren't headed for a Venusian climate but definitely moving into uncharted territory for mammalian life.
my chief concerns are the "unknown, unknowns" -

[rah45]

Good article Shadow. Thx for sharing 

Not unlike what Nemo wrote, I hate it when folks will not allow you to debate whether it is man made or naturally occurring climate change. I think there is climate change happening around us however naturally occurring.

I have read several times that we are moving into a small ice age not unlike the the mid to late 1700's or 1800's. This year the Farmers Almanac predicts a tougher winter for the NE then last year. Brrrrr!

Johnny, I can handle a year-round, 10-20 degree drop in temp here in Georgia!! 

[Nemo]

Johnny, I can handle a year-round, 10-20 degree drop in temp here in Georgia!! 

I cannot.  You want that move up there into yankee territory.

Climate change discussion discussion.         But the yes-- climate change is people has a couple bats.

Nemo   

[rah45]

Johnny, I can handle a year-round, 10-20 degree drop in temp here in Georgia!! 

I cannot.  You want that move up there into yankee territory.

Nope. You're an old fart, and I'm the new up-and-comer. Move outta the way!!!

Actually, you could just move to Florida. Isn't that where all the cold-natured elderly go these days??

 

[Nemo]

Nope. You're an old fart, and I'm the new up-and-comer. Move outta the way!!!

Actually, you could just move to Florida. Isn't that where all the cold-natured elderly go these days??

 

Be better for all of us down here if you just went up with the yankees.   

Besides I have already done the Florida thing.  Lived half hour N of Tampa for 6 years.  S Ga is perfect.  I do not like high humidity, 85 degrees and dead calm at midnite in the summer.   Much prefer our high humidity, 75 degrees with a light breeze here.  That differences is big enough to really make a difference.

Nemo

[rah45]

Nope. You're an old fart, and I'm the new up-and-comer. Move outta the way!!!

Actually, you could just move to Florida. Isn't that where all the cold-natured elderly go these days??

 

Be better for all of us down here if you just went up with the yankees.   

Besides I have already done the Florida thing.  Lived half hour N of Tampa for 6 years.  S Ga is perfect.  I do not like high humidity, 85 degrees and dead calm at midnite in the summer.   Much prefer our high humidity, 75 degrees with a light breeze here.  That differences is big enough to really make a difference.

Nemo

You can wish in one hand and shit in the other...

All I have to do is wait you out, old man. Time is not your friend.   

[Nemo]

I will wish in my hand.  As soon as I finish that, can you give me a hand over here for a minute?

Nemo

[rah45]

I will wish in my hand.  As soon as I finish that, can you give me a hand over here for a minute?

Nemo

[Nemo]

No, not a trap.  Just got a feeling I need to move some.  So a hand please . . ..

Nemo