A different view (Bear with me on this)

[gadget99]

A friend of mine shared this image with me on Facebook.

Someone came back with their concern that this was an invitation for the wild west.
I was not going to comment then I felt the need to do so.
I wish to share my unedited response for thought and reflection.
Here it is.

I am sorry this has come across in a way that it makes you feel as you state.
There is and always has been a factor to this that we have ignored in our modern society. In order for law enforcement to intercede in a protective manner to an incident, two things need to happen.
1. They need to be made aware that something is happening.
2. They need to physically get an or many officers to the location. Both of these take time.
There is no way that our Police Forces can prevent someone breaking into a citizens house.
Lord do they wish they could, yet that is not the reality of the situation.
At some point there was a shift in the perceptions of modern culture that began to undermine the concept of an individual being responsible for their own protection.
This I fear has spawned an environment that is very dangerous.
What the Sheriff is saying is quite simplistic. He is asking the citisens he swore to protect, to do what they can to protect themselves until his people can get there. That is not really that unreasonable.
While on the surface this seems to be an invitation to a more violent society.
I however see it as a Senior Law Enforcement Officer that in all likelihood is tired in his soul of seeing the lambs of society slaughtered before his people can get there.
Slaughtered because they have been convinced that they do not need to try in any manner to protect themselves.
I personally feel that pain.
I have no wish for a society of violent intent.
Yet I have a wish for a society that contains citisens that will at least try and survive until help arrives.
My fear is that as time goes on.
The wolves in our society will find more and more defenceless people to prey on.
With respect I hope I have communicated well in this post.

[Nemo]

 

Nemo

[JohnyMac]

You did good gadget however you have more patience than I do. You are a good man 

[Nemo]

Some other things to think about that were brought up on another forum.  David/Goliath, David had his slingshot, a very effective weapon of the time.

Shepherds have their big dog and stick.  Good to deter wolves and such.

Nemo

[JoJo]

When seconds count the police are just minutes away. Where I live it would take our Troopers 10 minutes to get here, they're not superhuman.
Great post

[JohnyMac]

Where our cabin is...The closest Trooper Barracks is 30 minutes away. Unless a Smoky was patrolling close, you are on your own.

In RI, it would take ~10 minutes or so.

[gadget99]

This brings to mind the viewpoint of the main character in the book "Unintended Consequences"

When a society limits the ability of the citisen to protect themselves, then they are as culpable in the crime as the criminal.

It is even worse when the citisen has been duped into believing that they have no need to protect themselves.

[JohnyMac]

BINGO Gadget! 

Also ala Unintended Consequences: Citizens will start to lash out at the .gov employees who make their lives miserable. The EPA comes immediately to mind. There are others for sure...

We are starting to see this today but on a smaller scale, with the recent execution style murders of LEO's around the country. This is why people who work for .gov worry about "your" guns.

[gadget99]

JM,

I believe that things may be worse than we fear.

I see the signs that the vast majority of the populace is now will to submit to anything.

May be wrong here, yet may not be wrong.

[Grudgie]

This is slightly off topic. But from what I have heard, crime rates in the Wild West were LOW. The smart criminals lived in the east where they could use the gun of the state to enforce their will.

[Kbop]

with apologies to honest Politian's.

“I once watched several criminals engage in an organized argument, while an audience of supporters cheered them on, but I was so disgusted that I had to turn off the political debate.”
- Jarod Kintz

'I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts'. 
- Will Rogers

Crime does not pay ... as well as politics.
- Alfred E. Newman

I agree Grudgie!

[JohnyMac]

This comment is NOT addressed to anybody on this forum however, Gadget got me thinking with his comment, "I see the signs that the vast majority of the populace is now will to submit to anything."

I read fake swagger by people on other forums who claim that "they will not comply." I call BS on almost all of the comments I read.

When the WIC, SNAP and the ATM cards stop working the overwhelming majority of people will queue up to kiss the hand of .gov.

[CJS06]

Johnny that is a sad but true statement.  Most of the bluster is just that....bluster.  Just like 90% of the Molon Labe statements.  If .gov comes to get them most people will give up their arms rather than fight or "become" a criminal.

[graynomad]

Johnny that is a sad but true statement.  Most of the bluster is just that....bluster.  Just like 90% of the Molon Labe statements.  If .gov comes to get them most people will give up their arms rather than fight or "become" a criminal.

True, in Oz there's a new push to change the classification of lever guns to something much harder to qualify for. On all the forums there are many "you'll take my lever from my cold dead hands" style comments. Yeah right, if the law comes a knockin' they'll fold in a heartbeat I'm sure.

[JohnyMac]

graynomad,
Interesting...

Has there been a rash of shooting's in OZ with lever rifles? If no, why the push? If yes, what were the circumstances?

[gadget99]

Potentially off topic a bit.


Yet JM hit the head on the nail and the others followed the line of thought.

There are very few that can or would resist.

On a side note to that I would like to point out something.

Low Cost and Low Tech can be a BIG friend in this. (Sort Of)

Gotta think outside of the box a bit.

Here are a few examples-

-A good bow or crossbow has distinct advantages.

-There are so REALLY Nice big bore Air Rifles out there now.

Neither require you to be on the radar to own.

Just food for thought. I do tend to get a chuckle out of some of the Preppers out there that actually believe they are going to fight a war or even major battle. Not practical in any sense.

Get safe, hunker down and don't get noticed..... If you get in a gunfight then you messed up somewhere.

[Nemo]

Gotta think outside of the box a bit. -- I hate boxes so I lose them so I cant be in one so I am always outside em.

Here are a few examples-  Melikes examples

-A good bow (double check mark) or crossbow has distinct advantages. (checkmark)

-There are so REALLY Nice big bore Air Rifles out there now. (even small boring ones--double small checkmark, single big checkmark)

Some things did not want to go for a boat ride one the day mine sank.  I like to think I am very low profile and try to stay that way. 

Nemo

[graynomad]

graynomad,
Interesting...

Has there been a rash of shooting's in OZ with lever rifles? If no, why the push? If yes, what were the circumstances?

No there hasn't in fact I don't think a lever has EVER been used in a high-profile crime. But that doesn't stop the libtards.

It all started when the new Adler lever 12g was released a couple of months ago, it's a cat A whereas a pump is cat C (cat C is very hard to get)

http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/news/national/lever-action-gun-buyback-may-be-triggered-by-law-changes/story-fnkfnspy-1227414273228

A quote from that article

“The group will consider the categorisation of new and emerging firearms technologies and advancements in firearms, such as lever action firearms,

Yes that's right, lever guns are an "advancements in firearms", I shit you not. Maybe in 1880 they were but now?

The moron is strong in this one.

This could go a few ways I suppose

a) nothing comes of it
b) levers are reclassified as cat C and current owners have to hand them in
c) levers are reclassified as cat C and current owners are upgraded

As gun laws are state by state there's a chance that options will be different in the various states, in Queensland (QLD) where I live the laws are much laxer than say Western Australia (WA).

This could even be a good thing of option C occurs, but the chances of that are pretty slim I think. OTOH there are a lot of shooting disciplines like cowboy action that use levers so there's a good chance that if you are an active competitor (IE go to the range a few times a year) you will be OK.

Who knows what will happen, recently there was a big inquiry (about another gun issue) instigated by the Greens (a left political party), the head of the inquiry was very biased against firearms, but the whole thing fell flat on its face as even the LE guys that spoke to the panel did not support the premise of the inquiry. So there is hope.

BTW, the most common categories are (broadly)

A, rimfire rifle, shotgun
B, centre fire rifle (any non-semi action), muzzle loader
C, semi-auto rifle or pump shotgun
H, Handgun

Everyone gets an A/B license, it's a no brainer. Many get an H, a little harder but still easy. Almost nobody gets a C unless they are a professional hunter or have a good reason, usually because of their job.

[JohnyMac]

Wow...Thanks for the update graynomad. 

It's interesting that the ability to conceal/open carry here in the States is being coming less restrictive, countries around the world are becoming more restrictive. This is being done not by Liberals but by Progressives.

On the earlier thread of this subject line: I challenge all of the men & women on this forum to try to live independent of the system. If you and your family can only live outside the system by 10% do it! Currently, (MrsMac thinks 80%) we live about 50% outside the system.

We grow much of our own food, not part of  Obama care SCOTUS Care (The Affordable Care Act), barter for us is a way of life, pay NO income tax because we make no income, etcetera.

Property tax, sales tax, internet, TV, etcetera, yup we are still part of the system.

My reasoning for the suggestion is two fold:

1) You will see the wholes in your independent living quickly and make plans to plug the hole, and
2) It's a nice way to say FU to .gov. Just think the result if everyone lived 10% out of the system? Man O' man that
    would be a whole bunch of sand in the cogs of .gov.

Just some food for thought. :-)
 

[graynomad]

I 100% agree.

We largely dropped out of the system 15 years ago to live on the road. We've now dropped anchor but are aiming for even more isolation from it.

Yes we have to pay vehicle rego, property tax, phone/internet etc, but that's about it. I collect the mail every month or so and even then it's just a couple of magazines I get from clubs I belong to (shooting/RV etc). We are almost totally off grid, I say almost because we still need fuel for the vehicles and occasional generator use. We're not on the electoral role (almost compulsory in Oz), pay no tax 'cause we don't earn enough.

Just as an exercise I got a skip tracer to try and find me recently, the best he could do was my last address (15 years old), admittedly he didn't try real hard but that was a good result I think.

It's my aim to only drive into town maybe 3-4 times a year, it's doable.

The elephant in the room for us is food, we don't grow any at this point, but maybe when I finish building infrastructure I'll get on to that.

[Nemo]

Hell, if you got an elephant in the room turn the AC way way down and get to cutting.

Nemo

[graynomad]

Dang, we don't have AC but if I was just to get rid of that darn elephant our food bill would be cut in half, that's gotta help with being self sufficient eh?

OTOH, I just bought a 58cal muzzle loader, that would make a good elephant gun I think, here jumbo, there's a good boy.

[Nemo]

Forget that lead minie ball.  Get some reload bullets for this monster.  And hope you can put enough powder behind it to get it moving fast enough to be effective on jumbo or even dumbo as he flies.

Nemo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EVqT3XEzss

up to 2581 fps & 11100 foot pounds w/ a 750 grain bullet... OUCH!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r623CNbP_Jk

[graynomad]

Yikes, I've got a sore shoulder from just watching that video

[Nemo]

Yeps, flapping your arms and ears are tough.

Nemo