LA shooting

[tony1111]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bY5ioBvrYIg

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Any thoughts? I thought it was justified but i would like to know everyones opinion 

[WhiskeyJack]

I would say it was justified. The guy saw the cops. saw the guns. refused to comply, got maced, Turned to attack, and got smoked. Im surprised the cops fired as many rounds as they did. and im surprised they didnt have more standoff distance with this guy. My questions are, did the cops fire another volley after the guy was down? and did i hear two different guns? But no i dont see the cops being screwed on this one. maybee a litte counseling and some time on the beach. But dumb ass people shouldnt bring crow bars to gun fights.

[backwoodsboy]

i say its not justified, there were to many shots fired. 1 or 2 rounds would have been more appropriate. the guy looked like a thug, but the cop definitley owes the family a apology.

[gapatriot]

5 or 6 rounds from first cop 6 rounds from the cop that maced him, secound set of shots looked like the guy was down or going down.

[sledge]

I think he must have thought the cops were bluffing.  The impression I got was that he was bluffing when he moved towards the cop.  He didn't raise the crow bar.  He didn't realize that if the cops saw him demonstrate any aggressive behavior at all while holding anything in his hands they were going to waste him.

Under the rules most agencies follow it was justified.  When you are surrounded by a group of armed cops, you resist at your own risk. 

He seemed to think they would just let him walk away.  Idiots make bad choices.  The gene pool has improved.

Edit:  Notice the guys shooting the video were unaffected by seeing someone killed in front of them.  Desensitized.

[gapatriot]

Justifiable,the only thing is damn 11 or 12 rounds on one guy at pointblank range damn those cops need to go to the range alittle more.

[backwoodsboy]

it was hard for me to understand the guys taping, but they did say the guy was dead right?

[Kentactic]

Yep perfectly justified... they maced him, tazed him in the face (i think only one barb made contact so it didnt work) and then he became a lethal threat so the cop shot him..the second cop was shooting him on the ground just so he could say he fired his gun.. but thats fine i guess the dude was dead anyways... as far as round count fired im fine with it... oncve your going to shoot you shoot to stop not to slow him down.

[themighty9mm]

i say its not justified, there were to many shots fired. 1 or 2 rounds would have been more appropriate. the guy looked like a thug, but the cop definitley owes the family a apology.

I strongly disagree. If one has to shoot, this includes LE, MIL, or civi you shoot untill the threat is no longer a threat. The mace was a very obvious sign to comply NOW! He did not do so and instead went for an attack. A crow bar is indeed a deadly weapon. No apology owed. If anything the parents owe them an apology for raising a shitty kid and forcing the cops into that situation

[Kentactic]

i say its not justified, there were to many shots fired. 1 or 2 rounds would have been more appropriate. the guy looked like a thug, but the cop definitley owes the family a apology.

I strongly disagree. If one has to shoot, this includes LE, MIL, or civi you shoot untill the threat is no longer a threat. The mace was a very obvious sign to comply NOW! He did not do so and instead went for an attack. A crow bar is indeed a deadly weapon. No apology owed. If anything the parents owe them an apology for raising a shitty kid and forcing the cops into that situation

 [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

[WhiteWolf]

No way justified. I'm sorry, but the cop who fired first must've been itching to pull the trigger considering he should've let the dog down the guy as soon as he didn't heed the first warning and mace. I'm not trying to be sympathetic towards a criminal, but that was overkill. 2-3 shots max that guy was going down. The last six were going into his body already on the ground. I could go on, but I'll leave it at that.

[themighty9mm]

No way justified. I'm sorry, but the cop who fired first must've been itching to pull the trigger considering he should've let the dog down the guy as soon as he didn't heed the first warning and mace. I'm not trying to be sympathetic towards a criminal, but that was overkill. 2-3 shots max that guy was going down. The last six were going into his body already on the ground. I could go on, but I'll leave it at that.

I disagree, given the distance on the civilian to the cops. The civilian with a leathal weapon could have easily been all over the cop long before the dog came to the rescue. In the situation given no telling how many shots one would or should fire. One would not have time to consider and contiously think about what number of shots "feels right" for the situation at the given time. After its all said and done its very very easy to nit pick at the "they should have/could have" or what is or is not overkill. But in the moment its a very different situation. I'm not speaking from direct kill/no kill experience. However I have been in enough physical fights and arguments to know, after it was all said and done. Its easy to think back and say to ones self "man, I wish I'd done/said X Y or Z" But in the moment you do what you thought was necessary. Its a action-reaction thing. The guy was givin multiple very clear opportunities to stop. A clear show of force, I did not hear it, but I assume verbal commands, mace. How many chances would you yourself be willing to give someone that was ready, willing, and able to kill you?

[Skippy00004]

Justified.

Good observation on the cameraman/camera persons.

[hjmoosejaw]

I counted 5 and 5. I think it was justified. You go into a place with a weapon, you're taking the risk for whatever happens. He could have been inside threatening a clerk and had a concealed carrier shoot him. The clerk could have shot him, etc. You got a couple guns on you, with the guys behind the guns screaming at you to get on the ground. You should probably get on the ground. Their adrenaline is pumping, they tried non-lethal weapons, he still made a threatening move. Training kicked in. If he connected with that rod, it could have been lights out for the cop. They want to go home to their families too. You make decisions, you live (or die) with the consequences. Driving drunk , holding up a store, whatever.    P.S. ...It is a sad commentary on the way the onlookers were unaffected by watching somebody die.

[tony1111]

I think he must have thought the cops were bluffing.  The impression I got was that he was bluffing when he moved towards the cop.  He didn't raise the crow bar.  He didn't realize that if the cops saw him demonstrate any aggressive behavior at all while holding anything in his hands they were going to waste him.

Under the rules most agencies follow it was justified.  When you are surrounded by a group of armed cops, you resist at your own risk. 

He seemed to think they would just let him walk away.  Idiots make bad choices.  The gene pool has improved.

Edit:  Notice the guys shooting the video were unaffected by seeing someone killed in front of them.  Desensitized.

I noticed that to that the guys just started laughing when the guy got shot, the sad thing is most kids are probably going to turn out the exact same way

[RS762]

looks like suicide by cop to me.
Im the biggest cop-hater here and it looked justified to me.

[Kentactic]

No way justified. I'm sorry, but the cop who fired first must've been itching to pull the trigger considering he should've let the dog down the guy as soon as he didn't heed the first warning and mace. I'm not trying to be sympathetic towards a criminal, but that was overkill. 2-3 shots max that guy was going down. The last six were going into his body already on the ground. I could go on, but I'll leave it at that.

the dog is a fellow officer... its not smart to have an animal with no thumbs that fights with its face attack a guy twice his size with a crow bar that is lethal with one swing.


and upon reviewing the tape the guy was still standing for all shots fired

[EJR914]

Totally justified and I would have reacted in the same way, had someone started to swing a blunt weapon like that at me as well.  It could easily cause grave injury or death if he landed a blow with it.

[Outonowhere]

OK, here is my opinion on this shooting:  JUSTIFIED

The suspect refused to follow the Officers orders to empty his hands and raise them and the chemical agent did not have the desired affect.  The suspect turns toward one of the Officers appearing to "wind up" to swing the weapon, takes a step forward and relaxes a bit.  This could either indicate a faint on his part pointing to SBC (Suicide by Cop) or he might have been posturing as to warn the Officer against spraying him again.  This was however a CLEAR threat to the Officers life and at the distance which they were apart the Officer would not have had time to react(a: explained below).  This gave the Officers full authority under "standard" guidelines to use deadly force, in order to prevent the death of the "macing" Officer.

The use of the K-9 against the suspect as he was would NOT be recommended.  The K-9 was probably only there in case the guy took off.  As has been stated previously one swing would probably been enough to at least be cause for the animal to need to be put down from injuries but more likely would have resulted in death depending on the impact area.

(a:) Issues with macing Officer's actions:

1. Despite the presence of a suspect armed with a potentially lethal weapon he holsters his firearm to deliver the spray of mace.  Promptly after using the mace HE TAKES HIS EYES OFF OF THE SUSPECT in order to holster his weapon.  Because of this he is surprised when the suspect makes the threatening moves towards him and stumbles backwards. (continued in part b)

The K-9 Officers responds to the threat of violence/death by firing 5 shots at the suspect.  I'm guessing that all shots hit their target (cause they were point blank and we have not yet heard of bystanders being shot) which is good considering the crowd that had gathered on the side opposite the officers from the suspect.  The suspect now wounded stumbles back away from the officers.  (b:) IN A PANICKED REACTION TO THE K-9 OFFICERS SHOTS THE MACING OFFICER FUMBLES WITH AND FINALLY DRAWS HIS WEAPON. (the car is blocking most the view of the suspect but it is possible to determine that he is facing AWAY from the cops).  STILL IN PANIC MODE, THE MACING OFFICER FIRES 5 RAPID SHOTS AT THE SUSPECT WHO IS NOW APPARENTLY FACING AWAY FROM HIM AND NO LONGER A THREAT.

In conclusion, overall the shoot was good.  I would suggest the normal counseling and what not to both Officers and normal procedures following an Officer involved shooting.  I would also, however, suggest further training and counseling for the Macing Officer.

Again, these are my personal opinions on the subject, and only the ones that really know what happened are the ones that were there.

[special-k]

looks like suicide by cop to me.
Im the biggest cop-hater here and it looked justified to me.

100% Agreed, but on a side note...

When a civilian with long metal object, goes after a cop, cops shoots, it's considered justified.

When civilian A, with a long metal object, goes after civilian B , and civilian B shoots, well, whole different story.  Civilian B will almost always be dragged through court with the prosecutors shouting "undue lethal force."  While costing civilian B his life savings and possibly his freedom.

[EJR914]

looks like suicide by cop to me.
Im the biggest cop-hater here and it looked justified to me.

100% Agreed, but on a side note...

When a civilian with long metal object, goes after a cop, cops shoots, it's considered justified.

When civilian A, with a long metal object, goes after civilian B , and civilian B shoots, well, whole different story.  Civilian B will almost always be dragged through court with the prosecutors shouting "undue lethal force."  While costing civilian B his life savings and possibly his freedom.

You got it!  If this had been a civilian and not a cop doing the shooting in this situation, the entire thing would be held to a huge degree of skepticism, you'd have a DA looking at the footage and thinking of anyway that he could charge you with murder or manslaughter, and you'd be shelling out 30,000 dollars in your own money just to fight this thing in court, just so you can keep your ass out of jail.

A truer word has never been said.

[madmitch]

Granted this guy WAS a real hardon, but how many cowards does it take to tackle a guy? they could of  easily just have done that but they might take a hit ,so just shoot [img]http://www.smileydesign.n [img]http://www.smileydesign.n

[1000meterstare]

Not justified.  The cop was a 'roid head just looking to kill somebody; a real sick individual who enjoyed the thrill.  There was a second volley after the "perp" went down out of camera view.  I've killed in war and I have to answer for that someday.  I never want to kill again if I can help it.  The documentors were also sick pups, no doubt.  BTW - I am a much better shot than that cop in the video.  I could take him to school. [img]http://bestsmileys.com/ar

[SK Rebel]

I counted 10 shots...like the p said they coulda used batons