Unchained Preppers
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: RS762 on March 12, 2012, 01:03:39 PM
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Just the latest drama in the ongoing imperial clusterfuck known as Afghanistan.
Wonder what was wrong with the guy, i just hope there's some way the US can make it right with the families of the deceased.
This is a tragedy for US-Afghan relations.
http://gma.yahoo.com/u-soldiers-alleged-deadly-rampage-taliban-vow-revenge-061722199--abc-news.html (http://gma.yahoo.com/u-soldiers-alleged-deadly-rampage-taliban-vow-revenge-061722199--abc-news.html)
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And Obama has already apologized for this, but continues to stay completely silent on Fast and Furious, which killed 300 Mexican civilians, one US border patrol agent, and I believe a DEA agent. Makes complete sense, right?
Made me think of this:
Tonight I Just Had To Kill A Lot Of People (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux_isUELiFM#ws)
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I'm sure this soldier was one of the fucktards who was on the ass end of his deployment and complained about how he never got a kill then snapped .... [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
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I was never in the Military so I do not know how the men and women who served, or are serving, deal with the stress daily, weekly, monthly and yearly; Stress that not only includes staying alive but stress coming from home 6,000 miles away.
With that said: There hundreds of thousands of men and women that deal or have dealt with it. So from an outsider looking in, I hope that this solider is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. To not do so, tarnishes all of his brothers and sisters.
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Three tours in Iraq and this one in Afghanistan. A Sgt. Wife and two young kids. Turned himself in. I think we can all figure out the possibilities of what happened. Either too much combat in the heat, a wife left alone too often for too long, or a buddy or buddies killed. Odds are it was one of those.
I remember a time when only volunteers, blood thirsty, adrenaline junkies who couldn't adjust to coming back home did 3 or 4 tours. Usually they didn't come back. Now it's becoming much too close to the norm.
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Our military style of warfare has part to blame for this as Sledge has said. 3 or 4 tours? That is the norm now, but I believe mentally, that's got to be enough to drive a man insane. Not just from all the killing, and fear of always being killed, but the fact that his wife never sees him, and who knows, he could of found out she is cheating on him, because he is not there, or she broke up with him, and at this point, if he had seen a lot f combat, PTSD's is almost certain.
If our military style of warfare wasn't to be the police of the world, staying in countries, not winning wars, but occupying them for 10 years or more, and not meeting any sense of a military battle plan of winning, just staying, occupying, and running the PC wars, have a huge impact on this.
We used to bring everything we had, kick ass, take names, kill everybody, and then get out, that's the way we used to do war, and its the way we should do it now, compared to the BS that we put our troops through now.
We need to go back to this, or we're going to see a whole lot more of these soldiers losing their minds and doing horrible stuff. Its just going to happen, its not humanly normal to do things like this forever.
I know this is war, its ugly, and its supposed to be, and things like this are just going to happen, but you can't help but think that some of this is to blame on the way that we fight wars now, and the fact that it needs to change.
Also, another off-topic note, when my grandfather got done with his duty in WWII, D-day +1 all the way through until we toppled Berliin, after he got done fighting, the military sent him around the world for ONE YEAR, before he ever saw his wife and kids again.
Now they just give you a plane ticket, and you are literally killing people one day, and the next day you're hugging and kissing your wife. I think that shit needs to change too. You know that is bound to cause problems as well. They have no time to decompress from the stresses of killing people, taking fire, seeing your buddy get shot or blown up, and then coming home the next day or week, and seeing your wife, kids, and hugging them and stuff. That's just not right. Every human needs time to decompress after killing, taking fire, seeing buddies blow up, die, get shot, and being back here in the civilian world. To me, its asking for problems.
Why not just go back to the old way of conducting war and troops? Seemed to work a lot better back then, and we probably had a less number of problems. You will never completely get rid of all problems mind you. I don't think that is possible at all. War is nasty, ugly, and it can make even the most normal man crazy.
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Damn straight! Kick ass if there isn't another option. Then come home and let them clean up the mess they asked for.
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Every man has his breaking point. The human body was not designed for the continuous stress of combat. This is not to justify his actions; that soldier needs to be tried. The US Government is just as guilty for this tragedy with continuous deployments and dudes on their 4th and 5th tours. 2 should be the max unless you get cleared by a psychiatrist and VOLUNTEER for more than 2 tours. This is complete and utter bullshit. [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
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i don't mean to side-track, but this got me thinking.
A - does an overseas tour have a specific time frame? isn't it usually under 1 year? (I'm asking... I have no idea)
B - let's say the typical tour is 6-12 months, that would place 3 tours @ 1-1/2 - 3 years... plenty of time for PTSD depending on circumstances
C - i know it's apples and oranges, but if we get hit with the worst-case WROL scenario, like good ol' long-term WROL... will this type of thing play a factor?
think about it, these dudes go through boot, and whatever other training they may get to prepare them for the harsh environment of war. how long do you think it would take for average civvies to "snap" like this in the hell-on-earth that a real WROL would be? good honest men. (and women).
I only bring it up because it's something that I don't recall ever being discussed here. (of course, i may have just missed the discussion)
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C = Yupper!
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i don't mean to side-track, but this got me thinking.
A - does an overseas tour have a specific time frame? isn't it usually under 1 year? (I'm asking... I have no idea)
B - let's say the typical tour is 6-12 months, that would place 3 tours @ 1-1/2 - 3 years... plenty of time for PTSD depending on circumstances
C - i know it's apples and oranges, but if we get hit with the worst-case WROL scenario, like good ol' long-term WROL... will this type of thing play a factor?
think about it, these dudes go through boot, and whatever other training they may get to prepare them for the harsh environment of war. how long do you think it would take for average civvies to "snap" like this in the hell-on-earth that a real WROL would be? good honest men. (and women).
I only bring it up because it's something that I don't recall ever being discussed here. (of course, i may have just missed the discussion)
Good subject. This is going to require some thought and analysis. We've talked about those people coming off of medications. But what about the long term mental affects of WROL? +1 For NOLA.
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The operational tempo of WROL will be high BRIEFLY at first but will slow down once you get settled and established and get a routine going. WROL will be more hard work than combat stress. Especially in more rural areas. If you are in a city you are prolly screwed and need to bug-out anyway. Historically, "insurgents" dictate operational tempo, not the occupying force. Not apples to apples. These poor kids are worn out and war-weary.
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The operational tempo of WROL will be high BRIEFLY at first but will slow down once you get settled and established and get a routine going. WROL will be more hard work than combat stress. Especially in more rural areas. If you are in a city you are prolly screwed and need to bug-out anyway. Historically, "insurgents" dictate operational tempo, not the occupying force. Not apples to apples. These poor kids are worn out and war-weary.
surely not apples to apples, i agree 100%, but you gotta think about the fact that lots of WEAK people will be thrust into a situation where they have to watch their own "6" 24/7. i could see that breaking people down real quick. just my speculation though.
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It's sad all the way around. Blood flowing here at home, blood flowing over there.
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Some people just hit that point man.
Like an old ass rope with 1000 pounds of draw weight, the twine twist and turns and slowly breaks away until the entire system just fails.
BING!
that was it, policed up his mags and weapon and strolled out of the FOB.
Then, tap tap bang bang.
I'm not about slaying innocents, but honestly I don't care. I'm to the point where it is what it is and I'm just going to keep prepping and eventually I'll be out in the woods hopefully with my fam and not all alone.
We cannot tell the future, you cannot tell me that you will not commit similar atrocities in the future. Because you don't know.
Keep your powder dry gents. Stay focused and clear. Quit drinking, quit smoking. Focus. Survive.
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[URL=http://www.smileyvault.co Your right RvR.
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murder is murder, give him a trial and on conviction execute
thats how all murders should be
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Props to Redneck, perfect point. Murder is murder, even in WROL. And we are ALL accountable. In this life or the next...
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Props to Redneck, perfect point. Murder is murder, even in WROL. And we are ALL accountable. In this life or the next...
Bingo [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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I don't know about " In this life or the next " I think that is a matter of opinion... unless you can with out a doubt prove there is an afterlife.
Though, I get what your driving at. ^-^
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Every man has his breaking point. The human body was not designed for the continuous stress of combat. This is not to justify his actions; that soldier needs to be tried. The US Government is just as guilty for this tragedy with continuous deployments and dudes on their 4th and 5th tours. 2 should be the max unless you get cleared by a psychiatrist and VOLUNTEER for more than 2 tours. This is complete and utter bullshit. [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
Totally agreed! [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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I'll be honest with you guys, I don't know how I will fair or react in WROL, I guess it depends on how bad it gets here. It also depends if I'm left all alone, or if I make it to our bug out location so I can be around other people.
I think if I had to kill a bunch of people, maybe even women and children, I think it might start to get to me after a while. I think as long as I had time to decompress from the stress, I might be alright, but if it was continuous for years and years, I could see it getting to me.
I don't think I'd ever kill innocent people like this guy did, I think my stresses would manifest itself in other ways, because I know myself. I could see myself drawing closer into myself, and pulling away from people, probably my wife and child. That's one thing I'm worried about in WROL.
The problem with me is that I'm not a sociopath, and I think being a sociopath helps you in WROL. I feel too deep and feel too much, and I think killing a bunch of people, women and kids included would start to mess with me, I could see myself just going blame old talking to myself nuts, or withdrawing from friends and family.
The good news is that if our bug out plans work out, I'll have others to help support me, and I think this will be a huge plus for my mental health, because I'll have other people to talk to, and even ways to blow of steam, and I'll have other people helping to watch my back, so I don't have to do it 24/7 all by myself.
I think that's a huge part of this for me, is have other people around me, supporting me, and helping me to watch our backs, so I don't have to do it all by myself.
I also see myself heavily relying on God during this time, as he would be my rock to help me and my family get through WROL.
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I'm a sociopath.
:))
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I'm a sociopath.
:))
Yes you are.
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When I make it to your BOL just check my bag for scalps and you can tell how well off I faired. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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When I make it to your BOL just check my bag for scalps and you can tell how well off I faired.
I'm not saying I could ever take scalps, I'd have to be there, and see how I was doing before I would think about it, but from a psychops standpoint, taking scalps or other "souvenirs"can have a devastating effect on your enemy, especially if you make a name for yourself, but the problem also with that, is that if you make a name for yourself, there are going to be people actively hunting you. Maybe its best to just stay unknown, and do the scalps. that way they are just creeped out, but don't have anybody to hunt back. It might really work out well for you as far as psychops. You never know. It messed with the settlers pretty bad.
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I will agree with what you just said. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
But we must stay on topic.
Dude should be executed on trial. As long as a proper investigation is done and he is in fact proven guilty by a jury.
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I'll be honest with you guys, I don't know how I will fair or react in WROL, I guess it depends on how bad it gets here. It also depends if I'm left all alone, or if I make it to our bug out location so I can be around other people.
I think if I had to kill a bunch of people, maybe even women and children, I think it might start to get to me after a while. I think as long as I had time to decompress from the stress, I might be alright, but if it was continuous for years and years, I could see it getting to me.
I don't think I'd ever kill innocent people like this guy did, I think my stresses would manifest itself in other ways, because I know myself. I could see myself drawing closer into myself, and pulling away from people, probably my wife and child. That's one thing I'm worried about in WROL.
The problem with me is that I'm not a sociopath, and I think being a sociopath helps you in WROL. I feel too deep and feel too much, and I think killing a bunch of people, women and kids included would start to mess with me, I could see myself just going blame old talking to myself nuts, or withdrawing from friends and family.
The good news is that if our bug out plans work out, I'll have others to help support me, and I think this will be a huge plus for my mental health, because I'll have other people to talk to, and even ways to blow of steam, and I'll have other people helping to watch my back, so I don't have to do it 24/7 all by myself.
I think that's a huge part of this for me, is have other people around me, supporting me, and helping me to watch our backs, so I don't have to do it all by myself.
I also see myself heavily relying on God during this time, as he would be my rock to help me and my family get through WROL.
Two words, "new normal". You'd be surprised what you can adjust to when you don't have any other option. But you are right, some people will chose to simply not to.
The affects of loosing a comfy life and having to adjust to something much less will affect a lot of people. Especially women and children who have no concept of what life was like 150 years ago, much less in a violent post collapse situation. Most will eventually adjust but there will be those who will not be able to do it without suffering a mental breakdown.
These things we prepare for won't be an adventure, they will be very ugly and very hard. That's why anyone with any sense fears them occurring.
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There are certain moral absolutes which transcend time. Think about that...
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I served in the Navy, and fortunately I never had to see any action. Even being out to sea for months at a time has a strain on your mind. I could only imagine having to worry about people trying to kill you all the time. Not to mention the time away from family and life as you know it. I think one tour is enough. If you volunteer for more, that's different. That's up to you. I don't think somebody should be forced to do more. I wasn't there in this case, so I'm just going to withhold judgement.
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I served in the Navy, and fortunately I never had to see any action. Even being out to sea for months at a time has a strain on your mind. I could only imagine having to worry about people trying to kill you all the time. Not to mention the time away from family and life as you know it. I think one tour is enough. If you volunteer for more, that's different. That's up to you. I don't think somebody should be forced to do more. I wasn't there in this case, so I'm just going to withhold judgement.
you're a kind hearted individual. I'd gladly put one in his sorry forehead. even if he was legitimately insane. think about it this way. post-wrol... if someone pulls some shit like this, are you gonna care whether the bastard is "unstable" or just a downright asshole? nope! you're just gonna shoot his sorry ass.
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I served in the Navy, and fortunately I never had to see any action. Even being out to sea for months at a time has a strain on your mind. I could only imagine having to worry about people trying to kill you all the time. Not to mention the time away from family and life as you know it. I think one tour is enough. If you volunteer for more, that's different. That's up to you. I don't think somebody should be forced to do more. I wasn't there in this case, so I'm just going to withhold judgement.
you're a kind hearted individual. I'd gladly put one in his sorry forehead. even if he was legitimately insane. think about it this way. post-wrol... if someone pulls some shit like this, are you gonna care whether the bastard is "unstable" or just a downright asshole? nope! you're just gonna shoot his sorry ass.
Don't get me wrong, if I was there, I definitely would have popped him. And I'm normally a cut and dry sort of guy. But being I don't know what that type of pressure is like to be there. I don't know if I could justifiably be able to make a call in this case. I would have to hear all of the facts first. Believe me, If you ask anybody that knows me, "kind hearted individual" is not the way they would describe me. LOL My wife calls me "Mr. Sympathy". Being facetious of course. P.S. I screwed up the way I quoted this post......my bad.
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The more I read about this shit. the more ithink its another excuse for Obama to apologize to someone else.... I know the soldier did something very unacceptable and he should be delt with.
It's just like us burning the koran...no one mentions they where carrying messages for the terriost cells and our enemies.
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The more I read about this shit. the more ithink its another excuse for Obama to apologize to someone else.... I know the soldier did something very unacceptable and he should be delt with.
It's just like us burning the koran...no one mentions they where carrying messages for the terriost cells and our enemies.
it's vietnam bro
everything they do is propoganda to turn the people there against us and turn our people against the war
they can't defeat our military but they sure as hell can defeat our people