Author Topic: The Mississippi Personhood Controversy  (Read 1015 times)

CrystalHunter1989

  • Guest
The Mississippi Personhood Controversy
« on: November 04, 2011, 08:34:10 PM »
***What follows is my personal opinion, nothing more***

Mississippi is trying to pass legislation to define the beginning of life as conception within the womb, as soon as the egg is fertilized. I've always had this belief, and the fire storm that had exploded around the issue has confirmed, once again, something in my mind:

Abortion is as divisive today as slavery was in 1860.

Like our fathers ignored slavery, we're ignoring government-sponsored murder. We don't think about it, we don't talk about it, we simply keep it hushed up because no one wants to compromise. It always degenerates into a screaming match:

"It's my body! You can't tell me what to do with my body!"

"The fetus is a child too! What about his rights?"

The difference between life or death for a human child is a matter of months. If he can just make it to a certain trimester, then mommy isn't allowed to kill him.

So why do I mention that point specifically?

It shows that we have no respect for human life, period.

If we did, we wouldn't care about "trimester" this and "stage of development" that and other technicalities, which are just cheap excuses in my mind.

I can't kill my child unless I'm a single mother, because they are sooo oppressed (Casey Anthony). I can't get rid of my parents until they are in the nursing home, at which point I'm just doing them a favor (Dr. Kavorki). I'm going to kill my child because I made a bad choice and now I'm pregnant (thousands of young women).

"But you don't understand, I was raped!"

My sympathies. You are .01% of all pregnancies.

Remember Jurassic Park? The heated debate between John Hammond and Dr. Malcolm?

Malcolm: "This isn't some species that was obliterated by deforestation or the building of a dam. Dinosaurs had their shot and nature selected them for extinction."

Hammond: "Condors! Condors are on the verge of extinction! If I created a flock of Condors on this island, you wouldn't have anything to say!"

Rephrase for today's issue: "Ethnic cleansing! African tribes will kill the babies of their rivals to break their power. If this was about African babies being killed, you wouldn't have anything to say!"

Abortion isn't just about killing babies, but its ability to warp our minds so we can justify killing anypeople we deem "non-human." Merely mention the word in a room full of folks and I guarantee a fight will break out. I had a psychology professor who once said, "In America, we hate children. We do everything we can to get away from them. We drug them up when they won't calm down and give them to strangers because we don't want to raise them ourselves."

Our nation alone has killed more children than any war or genocide in the modern century. Hitler and Stalin was rolling in their graves because they got it wrong. If they wanted to eliminate the Jews and Ukrainians, they never considered making it sound like a "convenient choice" or a "right."

Alfred Hitchcock directed a film called Rope. Two Harvard students are convinced they are superior to other humans because of their intellect. They feel that those who are superior should be able to kill any "inferior" they want. We, as the great American people, are treading down a very dangerous path. Abortion is just the beginning. Never forget that we once pioneered eugenics in this nation, and restricted certain people from procreating due to their mental illness."

I believe that the issue will factor into the next civil war in some respect.

I'm not a pro-lifer, I'm an abolitionist!

***This concludes our rant, we now return you to our regularly scheduled program***

Boonedawg

  • Guest
Re: The Mississippi Personhood Controversy
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2011, 01:45:00 PM »
 Amen!

Offline NOLA556

  • Hardcore Prepper
  • ******
  • Posts: 2048
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Mississippi Personhood Controversy
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2011, 06:58:36 PM »
I'm with you 100% except for the idea of abortion being the slippery slope. I think giving government the authority to make the decision for you is far more dangerous. I think abortion is a disgusting thing and I wish people used better judgment in their sexual affairs, but I still can't be pro-life from a LEGAL standpoint simply because I don't like the idea of giving the government that jurisdiction over individual people's bodies. I am indeed pro-life in all other aspects of the debate regardless of my religion or lack thereof. I don't see how anyone can murder a child. I don't believe in government funded/subsidized abortion. not one bit. but if it's privately funded then I don't feel that I, or anyone else, has the authority to force a woman's hand, regardless of my personal feelings on the issue.

since there will likely never be a conclusive end to this debate, I think Ron Paul's viewpoint is the way to go. Just take the jurisdiction away from the federal government all together and let the states do what they want. it's not perfect, it won't completely satisfy either side, but it comes closer than anything the gov has done yet.

all that being said, banning abortion won't change anything. all it will do is cause more young women to die from puncturing their intestine with wire hangers or OD'ing on some home-made concoction that was supposed to poison them JUST enough to kill the fetus but not the mother..
think about everything the government has ever banned. did it ever make anything better? no. it usually just makes things worse. and the reason is because you can't legislate morality.
Rome is burning, and Obama is playing the fiddle - GAP

CrystalHunter1989

  • Guest
Re: The Mississippi Personhood Controversy
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2011, 09:10:20 PM »
I'm with you 100% except for the idea of abortion being the slippery slope. I think giving government the authority to make the decision for you is far more dangerous. I think abortion is a disgusting thing and I wish people used better judgment in their sexual affairs, but I still can't be pro-life from a LEGAL standpoint simply because I don't like the idea of giving the government that jurisdiction over individual people's bodies. I am indeed pro-life in all other aspects of the debate regardless of my religion or lack thereof. I don't see how anyone can murder a child. I don't believe in government funded/subsidized abortion. not one bit. but if it's privately funded then I don't feel that I, or anyone else, has the authority to force a woman's hand, regardless of my personal feelings on the issue.

since there will likely never be a conclusive end to this debate, I think Ron Paul's viewpoint is the way to go. Just take the jurisdiction away from the federal government all together and let the states do what they want. it's not perfect, it won't completely satisfy either side, but it comes closer than anything the gov has done yet.

all that being said, banning abortion won't change anything. all it will do is cause more young women to die from puncturing their intestine with wire hangers or OD'ing on some home-made concoction that was supposed to poison them JUST enough to kill the fetus but not the mother..
think about everything the government has ever banned. did it ever make anything better? no. it usually just makes things worse. and the reason is because you can't legislate morality.

In my mind, it's simply not about banning this or that. It's about whether or not we truly believe in the right to life in all cases and circumstances.

Offline NOLA556

  • Hardcore Prepper
  • ******
  • Posts: 2048
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Mississippi Personhood Controversy
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2011, 01:56:54 AM »

In my mind, it's simply not about banning this or that. It's about whether or not we truly believe in the right to life in all cases and circumstances.

I truly understand where you're coming from crystal, but I just can't see it that way.

I just feel that these types of personal matters are none of my business.

At the heart of the issue, it truly IS about banning this or that, it's about legislating morality. If we "care" so much about human life that we'll dictate to an American woman what she can and can not do with her own body, then where does it stop? where do you draw the line? will the U.S. government decide that it needs to enforce an abortion ban on the rest of the world as well? because after all, human life itself knows no national borders. if we care so much about unborn American lives, then what's stopping us from imposing that viewpoint on the rest of the world as well?

I think the world would be a better place if people would just learn to mind their own damn business.

truly embrace and embody the old phrase "BE the change that you wish to see".. basically meaning, if you don't like abortion, don't have one.

my daughter was not "planned". but there's no way in hell I was going to let my unborn child come into harm's way. that was my personal decision, because I think I'm a halfway decent person. What the next guy/gal decides is their own deal, and I don't have any more right to interfere with that than I have a right to tell them what clothes to wear, food to eat, car to drive, etc.

here's a good example that tends to come in handy with these abortion debates. teenage kid on the highschool track & field team falls down on the track and busts his skull, and he ends up in critical condition and on all kinds of life-support machines. he's still a human life, but he stands no chance whatsoever at being a productive person. he'll be a veggie for the rest of his life... so the parents make the tough decision to pull the plug. are they not MURDERING an innocent human life? I KNOW I KNOW, it's not the same. no, indeed it's not. but the basic principal of one person deciding to pull the plug on another is still the same. it's just something to get you thinking about the root concept. why doesn't society have a problem with the parents that pull the life-support from a veggie? are they not destroying a human life? So, that veggie will never be a productive person ever again as long as they (are allowed to) live. Does that mean that the merit of a human life is whether or not that person is productive in society?

like I said.. just stuff to get people thinking about things outside the box. I don't expect to change anyone's mind. like I said before, I am pro-life in every aspect EXCEPT for the government coming in and dictating it as law. when it boils down to it, it would be yet another failed attempt to legislate morality.
Rome is burning, and Obama is playing the fiddle - GAP

CrystalHunter1989

  • Guest
Re: The Mississippi Personhood Controversy
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2011, 01:13:54 PM »

In my mind, it's simply not about banning this or that. It's about whether or not we truly believe in the right to life in all cases and circumstances.

I truly understand where you're coming from crystal, but I just can't see it that way.

I just feel that these types of personal matters are none of my business.

At the heart of the issue, it truly IS about banning this or that, it's about legislating morality. If we "care" so much about human life that we'll dictate to an American woman what she can and can not do with her own body, then where does it stop? where do you draw the line? will the U.S. government decide that it needs to enforce an abortion ban on the rest of the world as well? because after all, human life itself knows no national borders. if we care so much about unborn American lives, then what's stopping us from imposing that viewpoint on the rest of the world as well?

I think the world would be a better place if people would just learn to mind their own damn business.

truly embrace and embody the old phrase "BE the change that you wish to see".. basically meaning, if you don't like abortion, don't have one.

my daughter was not "planned". but there's no way in hell I was going to let my unborn child come into harm's way. that was my personal decision, because I think I'm a halfway decent person. What the next guy/gal decides is their own deal, and I don't have any more right to interfere with that than I have a right to tell them what clothes to wear, food to eat, car to drive, etc.

here's a good example that tends to come in handy with these abortion debates. teenage kid on the highschool track & field team falls down on the track and busts his skull, and he ends up in critical condition and on all kinds of life-support machines. he's still a human life, but he stands no chance whatsoever at being a productive person. he'll be a veggie for the rest of his life... so the parents make the tough decision to pull the plug. are they not MURDERING an innocent human life? I KNOW I KNOW, it's not the same. no, indeed it's not. but the basic principal of one person deciding to pull the plug on another is still the same. it's just something to get you thinking about the root concept. why doesn't society have a problem with the parents that pull the life-support from a veggie? are they not destroying a human life? So, that veggie will never be a productive person ever again as long as they (are allowed to) live. Does that mean that the merit of a human life is whether or not that person is productive in society?

like I said.. just stuff to get people thinking about things outside the box. I don't expect to change anyone's mind. like I said before, I am pro-life in every aspect EXCEPT for the government coming in and dictating it as law. when it boils down to it, it would be yet another failed attempt to legislate morality.

Well, I guess we agree to disagree. :) See kids? You can still talk to people of differing views without threatening to kill each other.

Offline NOLA556

  • Hardcore Prepper
  • ******
  • Posts: 2048
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Mississippi Personhood Controversy
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2011, 07:17:17 PM »



Well, I guess we agree to disagree. :) See kids? You can still talk to people of differing views without threatening to kill each other.

sure thing man. no anger here. I think it's healthy to debate this or that. gets your brain working.
Rome is burning, and Obama is playing the fiddle - GAP

Offline Kobalt

  • Committed prepper
  • *****
  • Posts: 913
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Mississippi Personhood Controversy
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2011, 10:27:19 PM »
And just another thing I was able to learn by quietly observing.
Fan out your shots. We want everyone to get some.

Buck Naked

  • Guest
Re: The Mississippi Personhood Controversy
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2011, 07:28:27 AM »
God I love a good ol abortion debate!!!
Personally I would never have one. Unless of course it caught me on a day i was feeling particularly lazy.  8)  The thing though that gets me most heated is this.....  Most of these people it seems that are anit abortion are small government, individual freedom and personal  liberty loving , the government cant take away my guns or tell me what to do yadda, yadda, yadda. (like I am)  yet they are the first people in line to say you cant have an abortion or 2 dudes that enjoy licking each others ass holes cant get married.  Theres so many unwanted children being born today its disgusting. Think about it this way. Here in Orlando theres a woman named Casey Anthony. She never wanted to have a baby and was planning on getting an abortion. But her crazy ass mom talked her out of it. And we all know how that story ended up... If she had an abortion to begin with this fucked up thing would have never happened.     
with hugs and kisses
buck
 

Offline rah45

  • Community Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1572
  • Karma: +5/-0
  • Live Free, or Die.
Re: The Mississippi Personhood Controversy
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2011, 09:29:26 AM »
I have to agree with Crystal, in that once someone conceives, he/she is responsible for ensuring that the life of that child is as good as he/she can make it. Yes, men can be just as emotionally affected by a conception as women...I know of one person on this board who experienced fetus-related trauma that negatively impacted his life. Life matters, no matter where it is or who it is inside. I feel this way, knowing that if my wife was ever raped and impregnated, I may have very dangerous emotions regarding that child even though it wasn't its fault. Life is just too precious to debate. However, I feel that there are times when it is morally justified, outside of self-preservation, to end life.

Do I feel like people who are veggies should have the plug pulled on them? Not necessarily. It comes down to what you can prove about their quality of life. It also comes down to the quality of life of their supporters...it's morally wrong, in my opinion, to force family members to spend a huge chunk of personal time and funds on someone who is proven to have no chance of recovery, who sits and does nothing (cannot move/communicate/observe anything), and who really has no meaningful interaction with life. They can measure this on brain scans, so it is scientifically accurate. In that case, I feel it is the family's choice. In that case, the sick person will have no quality of life no matter what, and the family would suffer financially, mentally, emotionally, and in some cases physically (who is picking up this person, possibly a full-sized adult, to give him baths/put him to bed/transport him?).

I believe that terminating a baby's life before or during birth in order to save the mother's life is also a moral option. You must choose one or the other, and the mother and father (hopefully married or partners for life and committed to one another) have a chance to move on, and eventually try again.

My wife works in a pediatric intensive care unit (PICU), and I can tell you that she brings home some very sad, heartbreaking stories of kids who will never have a meaningful existence, but were kept alive because their parents couldn't let them die peacefully at the onset of their conditions. Some people are just meant to die, guys. I don't know if I believe in fate, or God's will, or "what-have-you." I just know that quality of life, to me, does not include a lifetime of either incredible pain or suffering or being half-doped on medications while your family struggles to pay the bills so you can just...exist. Life is not only about existing, it involves meaningful interactions and a chance to become an individual. If those things are denied, quality of life is severely reduced to the point where the end of it becomes a viable option (in that individual's mind). I know I wouldn't want to live like that. I would be scared of death, but living life like that would be miserable, knowing how much of a drain I was on my family and friends, and knowing what little I provided them in return and knowing what little quality my life possessed. In this, I think that medical technology can be used to ascertain what the quality of life will be, and the rest should be left to the individual (or family, if he is incapable of making the decision). I think that is morally acceptable.

One last issue (Mtn's thinking, "Thank God!"): NOLA has a very good point regarding government involvement in the abortion issue. I think of it as I do anything else: can you really stop it? Could anyone stop the manufacture, distribution of alcohol during the Prohibition? Drugs during our current times? No. All it does is lead to increased government control, less safe procedures and practices for those conducting the "illegal" actions, and an underground criminal element that will charge more for a risky operation than a trained doctor would in a sterilized hospital environment. I just see no win here. I am completely in support of zero federal involvement. If given a choice, I will vote for letting the states decide for themselves.