Self Sufficiency - 2024 vs. 1776

[JohnyMac]

Bottom-line upfront, if we have to have a kinetic fight with .gov, we will loose as we are not as self sufficient as our forefathers.

A recent example was the truckers protest in Canada. They got shot down due in a large part to the protesters bank accounts being shut down by .gov. The protesters were not self sufficient enough to ward off that tactic.

Only you with a handful of friends & family can offset that tactic by forming a group and working towards become self sufficient. Yupper, Old JohnyMac is preaching a MAG - Mutual Assistance Group. 

Think about it. I would appreciate your input and if you belong to a MAG what is the good, bad, ugly of the group. What are the pitfalls? 

Time is awasting folks.

 

[grizz]

When some people are financially blocked from their accounts they will cave in to the forces

Others will have their backs to the wall, again, and just not going to take it

[Jackalope]

    I find that the biggest problem within MAG's is the differences of preparations and skill levels between members.  One of groups that I belong to seems to function more as an educational outlet for newbies, rather than being a functional assistance group.  Training consists of a once a month meeting with a speaker.  There's limited social interaction, except during the meeting.  The size of that group is unwieldy too (70+), and the members are too scattered.  Good leadership is a crucial ingredient, and that group is lacking it, and the current leader doesn't want to step down.  We'll be leaving that group soon, as I tell my wife, "Not my monkeys, not my circus."  I actually met my wife through this group, but we've realized that our skills and knowledge base are beyond the average group member, and they seem to be stagnant.  The members don't seem to mature, and don't realize the seriousness of preparations.  For example, those that are into communications, the average member will purchase a Baofeng, get it programmed and put it back into its box.  They're not interested in getting their ham license, learning how to operate the radio on nets, or spending money on some means of recharging the radio battery when the grid goes down.  They don't want to spend money on an AR, or some other defensive weapon.  Members of this group are takers, or leeches, rather than producers, and this particularly applies to the leadership.  All in all, that group is an excellent example of a bad MAG!

    I've found that an effective group needs to have members located within 30 minutes of each other, which helps logistically and it helps with simplex communications.  The members need to have similar skill levels, and have basic preparations already acquired.  Otherwise the group is carrying the member and his family. 

    Another group that I'm involved with takes a different route.  There are training meetings, but we also have cookouts, and we get together socially.  This group also gets together to shoot and develop team skills.  Members live closer together and interact on a daily basis.  In my estimation, it's a much more effective and dynamic group, and also more intimate.  Members share their knowledge and skills, and it's a dynamic group.  Needless to say, when TSHTF, I know which group I'll be actively working with.

   

   

[dgjonesy]

Unfortunately a culture of government dependency is far too prevalent in the US today, resulting in a bloated government. This makes getting rid of said government when it inevitably turns tyrannical much more difficult. We need to get back to an early American tradition:

?Americans group together to hold f?tes, found seminaries, build inns, construct churches, distribute books, dispatch missionaries to the antipodes. They establish hospitals, prisons, schools by the same method. Finally, if they wish to highlight a truth or develop an opinion by the encouragement of a great example, they form an association" (Tocqueville 1840)


Of course easier said then done but MAGs seem like a great tool to help get started.

[JohnyMac]

Some great comments. Things that folks brought forward are good for us all to learn.

I belong to three MAG's.

One is a MAG in name only and trying to get anybody to commitment even on a monthly mtg is a no go.

One MAG basically has dissolved. I would category them as "takers" like you pointed out Jackalope.

One MAG, is a new one. The folks seem to be committed to the 3 Bee's (A couple of the group renamed it the 4 Bee's; Beans, band-aides, bullets, bible because of the honey bee interest). We have as a group purchased food, had classes, and another class on canning is coming up at the beginning of June. One thing is that 90% of the members are ham operators which is a commitment for sure. However, they are serious.

We have a Board on the Signal app and we all communicate daily.

After the canning workshop we are planning on forming a QRF (Quick Response Force). Not in anyway military in nature. It is what the name replies...We will have a group of folks that can quickly respond to an emergency.

> Electric goes down, loan out a generator,
> A home is flooded, we are there to help move household goods to higher ground,
> Someone is in the hospital, we would be there to feed and water livestock,
> ETC, etc, etc.

Some topics folks are interested in are,
> Emergency in the filed Comms training,
> Bee keeping,
> Get Home bags/equipment,
> SOP's (Standard Operation Procedures) for emergencies,
> Expanded gardening,
> Land Navigation,
> Medical
> ETC, ETC, ETC.

Man O' man, it is tough to have a dedicated group, however, well worth it when it is working.

Thanks folks for your input. Let's keep it going.

 

[pkveazey]

We all know that there is more than one way to run any operation. Just as there is more than one way to make a marriage work. My MAG is very small and is so close together that we all can see each other's house. OK, one guy is 3 air miles away. The one thing that I had to learn to accept is that every member is going to be at a different level of preparedness. Now, the ones that are luke warm about it will realize just how serious it really is when the SHTF. They will be a bit short on supplies and knowledge but will be willing to get their ass in gear when the need arises. The main thing is we all know one another and what skills each has. As for leadership, that's a real bitch. He who wants to be in charge should never be in charge. Those guys are worthless and are just glory hounds. I learned that while I was working, and I could spot a bad manager a mile away. The person who should be in charge is someone who is actually willing to work harder than anybody else and should be asked to be in charge by the group. I suppose that I'm the DeFacto leader because I set up the MAG but I would just as soon have one of the others as leader. I recognize the necessity to overstock on most things and will be willing to help other MAG members before helping outsiders. Even though some of my MAG members will be a bit short on supplies, they will still be useful because of their skillsets. Just as an example, a couple of them are mechanics with a garage and proper tools. Another is a Farmer who farms a lot of close by acreage and has plenty of heavy equipment. Another is a Jack of all trades and can build just about anything. He replaced my front porch and back deck and he used to be an EMT. And the obvious.... They all can hit what they are aiming at. I have several skill sets but my main skill is communications. When the SHTF, I expect to increase the size of my neighborhood MAG but for the time being, I have a mental list of people in mind that I will approach about joining. I just see a problem with a MAG that is huge. It's like trying to heard cats.

[Searchboss]

    I find that the biggest problem within MAG's is the differences of preparations and skill levels between members.  One of groups that I belong to seems to function more as an educational outlet for newbies, rather than being a functional assistance group.  Training consists of a once a month meeting with a speaker.  There's limited social interaction, except during the meeting.  The size of that group is unwieldy too (70+), and the members are too scattered.  Good leadership is a crucial ingredient, and that group is lacking it, and the current leader doesn't want to step down.  We'll be leaving that group soon, as I tell my wife, "Not my monkeys, not my circus."  I actually met my wife through this group, but we've realized that our skills and knowledge base are beyond the average group member, and they seem to be stagnant.  The members don't seem to mature, and don't realize the seriousness of preparations.  For example, those that are into communications, the average member will purchase a Baofeng, get it programmed and put it back into its box.  They're not interested in getting their ham license, learning how to operate the radio on nets, or spending money on some means of recharging the radio battery when the grid goes down.  They don't want to spend money on an AR, or some other defensive weapon.  Members of this group are takers, or leeches, rather than producers, and this particularly applies to the leadership.  All in all, that group is an excellent example of a bad MAG!

    I've found that an effective group needs to have members located within 30 minutes of each other, which helps logistically and it helps with simplex communications.  The members need to have similar skill levels, and have basic preparations already acquired.  Otherwise the group is carrying the member and his family. 

    Another group that I'm involved with takes a different route.  There are training meetings, but we also have cookouts, and we get together socially.  This group also gets together to shoot and develop team skills.  Members live closer together and interact on a daily basis.  In my estimation, it's a much more effective and dynamic group, and also more intimate.  Members share their knowledge and skills, and it's a dynamic group.  Needless to say, when TSHTF, I know which group I'll be actively working with.

Jackalope, this is a very appropriate topic, and one I am interested in. Your description of the bigger MAG you mentioned is larger, but somewhat similar to one we have here that I have been meeting with for the past couple of years. Most, but not all, are older folks (aged 40-70) who have been prepping for a while. There is a loose group of about 15-20 active people here who meet monthly at a local business; usually having varied and relevant meeting topics, and also have the occasional pot-luck dinner meeting or weekend range day. Generally, they are a good group of people, some of whom are very knowledgeable in relevant topics and willing to share their knowledge. The skill level varies, but most have multiple skills and are capable in those areas. Most have guns, gear, a small garden; are very dedicated to their version of prepping, almost approaching homesteading for three of them. Some are HAMS, but they do not use their skills or equipment. Most just talk about radios. There was not enough interest in developing a net to make it worthwhile. While they all seem to enjoy each other?s company, they do not appear interested in developing farther as a serious MAG. Lack of leadership is a problem here too, but mainly because those who have that skill set do not seem willing to assume that responsibility.

Perhaps I have a different definition of a MAG than they do. When we talked about training or group bulk-buys of some items, they seemed interested, and many participated. But when we talk about mutual self-support agreements in a general way, most folks are looking at the walls and have little to say. My guess is that they are afraid of making formal commitments or sharing intimate information about what they are doing with others, which is funny since they often talk about it at meetings. I know through conversations that several of the people mentioned have been involved with forming MAGs that have failed in the past, some with others of this group. I have been told that those smaller MAGs failed spectacularly, usually due to people-problems with others who do not participate in these meetings. The end result was that the MAG dissolved.

I am curious. Do any of the MAGs that you mentioned have a formal or written agreement? If not, how do they ensure that all the members have the same goals and values when forming their MAGs? How do they define how members will support each other if it is needed?

It seems common that in some areas there are public prepper meetings where like-minded people get together informally to socialize. From my experience, most seem to know or know of each other. Often these public meetings are used to discreetly screen potential members for another private group or MAG. Would you agree?

BTW, I really like your "Not my monkeys, not my circus" comment. If you don?t mind I think I will add that to my collection of idioms.

I suspect that most of us have read the same books and/or have had similar experiences when it comes to forming and managing MAGs. Let?s have more discussion on what a MAG is, and how to make one successful.

[Felix]

No formal MAD in my neighborhood - but general knowledge of who IS working towards self-sufficiency and able to "weather a storm".
This leaves an indeterminant number of folks who could very well become a burden - and fast.   
IF I were to propose formalizing shared standards, group activities and exercises... invitations would include what salient items appropriate in you view for a start?    Broadcast general invite to ALL on the road?   Start selectively and work up prospects on a slow, individual basis?    And as to standards - what resources are already in hand - who wants to be inspected?   Can a MAG have much credible value if some folks claim to be "prepared" but in fact they are not?

[JohnyMac]

Searchboss, great comments and questions. My best and main MAG does not have any formal agreements. We tend to be self governing not unlike the amateur radio folks. Probably because out of the 22 or so members of the group, 18 have a ham radio ticket; Technician, General, or Extra.

We use meet-ups to a degree that revolve around ham radio events. Winter field day, rookie round up, etc so far this year. We have scheduled a workshop on canning for June. Folks wanted to do a canning workshop way before canning season in late summer. We will be canning veggies to protein at that workshop.

I suspect that this MAG is successful because the the main drivers of the group are women hence mothers. My role is pretty much just being facilitator and logistical guy while the ladies drive the subjects. Although I have given talks on the "bullets" equation of the 4 Bee's, most workshops revolve around food and medicine. Not to say, the ladies are anti-bullets they tend to look at a firearm more as a tool not as a beautiful piece of machinery. As a matter of fact, every lady has a CCW and a EDC handgun. Most have their own AR-15. Yes, I am sorry to report, many with pink or purple stocks.  Oh well, each to their own.

 

[Searchboss]

As a matter of fact, every lady has a CCW and a EDC handgun. Most have their own AR-15. Yes, I am sorry to report, many with pink or purple stocks.  Oh well, each to their own.

 

I was laughing so hard I just about fell out of my chair when I read that.  I must admit that there is some of the same going on around here too, although we do not need a CCW permit in Georgia any longer. However, every adult in my family still has one. I am just glad they have an EDC and know how to use it! I have more to say on the subject of MAGs, but I will wait until tomorrow. Great comments and conversation here! 

[Sir John Honeybucket]

My experience  with forming or joining an MAG has been poor.  The 'welfare mentality' of gimme stuff for free got old, and FAST! Ham radio was fine if someone bought their HT for them, programmed it and then it all died on the vine, because though they'd swear that they're like Johnny Rambo and would carry a hostage on their back for miles behind enemy lines, in bare feet over broken glass when TSHTF;


yet , during easy peacetime , merely getting their Technician class license was too difficult. It's toooo haaaaard!   

I believed them.

73 de  Sir John Honeybucket

[Jackalope]

    The large MAG that I'm involved with requires an application and a liability waiver, and the majority of members are of retirement age.  Again, the leadership "talks the talk", but doesn't "walk the walk".  In that group, I forecast a survival rate of less than 25% in any major event.  This is based upon over 40 years of survivalist/prepper experience.  I'm guessing that most will either freeze in their homes during the winter, or they will starve.  Very few of them grow any of their own food, and most don't have a skill that could be used for bartering.  A group that is focused on a liability waiver, is a group that probably isn't going to be viable when this chips are down.  And supposedly this group vets potential membership, yet no one checked me out, and I'm considered a full member.  I often wonder how many of those in attendance at the meetings are federal investigators or informants; I'm sure there's at least one.

    Searchboss, you're correct about using the meeting to discreetly screen for potential members in other MAG's.  I know what kind of person that I would want to be associated with when TSHTF.  There's a few, but not many that have the skills, equipment, AND drive to survive.  There's no minimum equipment list, or any kind of standardization.  There's minimal discussion regarding defense, and communications.  There's no planning, no contingencies, etc.  The large group has no coordination, and they will fail big time, if something bad does occur.  There's going to be many disappointed, dead members.  The goals are stated in the membership application, but there's no hard rule about actually helping each other.  After attempting multiple times to get communications coordinated, I've stopped bringing up the topic.  My policy now is to help any member that directly asks for assistance, otherwise I don't bother and keep silent.  As I've mentioned previously, my wife and I plan on leaving this group soon, as it doesn't offer much to us.  I don't see that group enduring.

    The other, smaller group, shoots together on a regular basis.  A Class III FFL is a member, which helps with firearms purchases.  The leadership has done local area studies, and they're aware of threats and resources in their locale.  They also work with local farmers and homesteaders, making connections now, rather than later.  Most grow at least some of their own food.  Leadership acknowledges the skill sets of various members, and they defer to them when necessary. 

    It's an interesting dichotomy between the two groups.  Personally, I prefer a smaller, more intimate group.  If I'm going to be sharing a foxhole or a fire with someone, I'd like to know, "What kind of American they are."  It's important to have similar belief systems, values, and morals.  An application, or written agreement is just a piece of paper.  It's better to know first hand the person who is going to be watching your back.  Social interaction and team training gives you insight about fellow preppers.  I actually actively invite potential MAG members to my homestead to show them how we approach preparedness.  I'm not shy about showing my preps, but of course, I don't show everything.  But enough is shown to let them gauge my apparent preparedness level.  Regular communications between members is very important, whether by internet, phone or radio. 

      There's no perfect MAG.  I think the best MAG would be a large family.  The second best MAG would be like-minded neighbors.   Otherwise, look for a group that is dedicated to survival and helping each other out, whether during an emergency or on a day-to-day basis.  Those "people problems" can cause a lot of havoc in a group.  Personalities and egos have a direct effect on the longevity of a group.  I've seen groups where the "Alpha male" leader felt that any dissenting opinion was a direct challenge to his authority.  Needless to say, that group didn't last long.  Sometimes, egos just need to be tucked away.

[Searchboss]

We tend to be self governing not unlike the amateur radio folks.

JohnyMac, I have always been amazed at how well most amateur radio operators just show up and work together at impromptu events. I have run many (non-radio) events over the years and I learned the hard way to make sure that I had enough people to accomplish the tasks before agreeing to support an event. This usually meant getting people to sign up in advance. At the very least, it is embarrassing when not enough people show up.

A couple of years ago the local radio group (multiple clubs) was asked to support a road race. They needed 17 people to man the entire course. Only 3 people showed up. Embarrassing! It turned out that there was a hamfest that weekend. Surprisingly, they were invited back the next year and plenty of people showed up. It was a resounding success and drew a lot of positive media attention that year.

Our local amateur group has worked many road races or other events with no more coordination than putting the word out via a mass email list and/or posting it as traffic on local nets. Usually enough radio operators would show up to accomplish the tasks. We never knew who was going to show up until they got there or checked in on the radio. I guess that my past experience, training, and personality just won?t let me feel comfortable working this way if I am to be in charge, and therefore responsible for the results. But surprisingly, is does work, sometimes. 

[Searchboss]

Every time I bring up the subject of a written MAG agreement with any individual prepper or group they start prevaricating. Like most people, I dislike having to follow rules and adhering to policies set down by others. I think that it is just human nature to be as independent as possible.

Unfortunately, history has proven that people NEED rules that we can all agree to abide by to reduce interpersonal problems as much as possible. Without some common basis of agreement, there will always be misunderstanding or obfuscation of what was originally stated by the involved parties.

As an example, I have been a member of several clubs over the years that were typically governed by some form of Roberts Rules of Order as stated in their Constitution and By-laws. Occasionally at meetings, there was contention about some point. Roberts Rules of Order, as convoluted as they are, provided the basis for resolving the issue. As usual in a compromise, not everyone got what they wanted or was happy about the result, but in the end they agreed that the final decision was made following the rules all members agreed to abide by.

My point is that, in my opinion, any formal MAG that may need to self-govern in a long-term crisis scenario, particularly one that may be WROL, needs to have some form of written agreement about what their mutual goals and values are as well as how they shall be governed and make decisions as a group. Ideally, this should be done when the group is formed or shortly thereafter to give the MAG members some basic guidance as well as the basis for new members deciding if they want to join. Since the agreement is written and available to all members and all parties approved it when it was ratified or when they joined the MAG, there should be fewer points of contention.

Charley Hogwood wrote an excellent book on this subject titled ?The Survival Group Handbook? https://www.amazon.com/Survival-Group-Handbook-Organize-Situation/dp/149965264X.

I have always been a proponent of preparation and organization. Waiting until there is a problem to try to figure out how to resolve it during a crisis while everyone is stressed is a prescription for disaster. While it is an unsavory task and time-consuming, the MAG members should think things through and develop their MAG constitution, agreement, or action plan before it is needed. Leaving things up to chance is a bad idea.

An extreme example: If a MAG waits until the horde is approaching before talking about how they are going to support each other and where to set up a defense it will never get done in time. Conversely, if a MAG took the time to develop and disseminate to its members a viable local communications plan they should still be able to talk with each other when the power goes out.

[JohnyMac]

Yes rules are important. That is why when I facilitate an event, workshop, or meeting I produce an agenda. An agenda is a way of introducing rules at the beginning of a gathering. For the anti-rule folks, it is easy to accept.

The agenda includes,

Welcome,
House keeping (Rest rooms, trash removal, breaks, etc.)
The items to be covered,
   How long each items is
   Who is the sub facilitator of that item.
Any subjects to add to the days agenda
Topics/dates for the next meeting
Adjourn

By the way, I have a colleague who back in the late '90's belonged to a 2A rights political group. There were about 30 members and they produced a monthly newsletter that was loosely distributed among members and non members. The short version of this story is that one of the newsletters was found in Tim McVeigh's car after he was arrested.

Yup you got it, the FBI showed up at the President of the 2A rights house demanding the list of members names, addresses, etc. The President was savvy enough to ask for a search warrant which the FBI didn't have and left to get one. Once gone, he burnt all of the groups records.

The FBI did return with the proper paperwork and did their search. The only thing they left with was old copies of their newsletter. 

Yes but JohnyMac, we are only meeting to talk about self-sufficiency. Okay, tell that to Roman Catholic mom & dad's in Virginia.

Great discussion. 

[Searchboss]

Just to stir the pot a bit more regarding MAGs, I?d like to see some discussion on the following:

What constitutes a MAG member? How does this compare to the MAGs you are familiar with?

Many years ago I was looking at joining a small rural MAG. I was still learning about MAGs at the time so it took several months to decide this. We would meet monthly at one member?s property, but they had no agenda for the meetings. Mostly we just talked about what they wanted to do. They told me that they had 4 primary members and their families. They claimed that they wanted to increase their members to enhance security should that become necessary. They had no written MAG agreement, no communication or security plan, and I got a slightly different description of what they had agreed their MAG was about when I talked with each individually, which was concerning.

I asked several times how many people the MAG was prepping for and got different answers each time I asked. Eventually, I was able to discover that there were a total of 21 people in their MAG. It broke down to Man #1 +wife, son & his wife, plus their toddler (5); Man #2 + wife, son & his wife plus 2 children, and his daughter + husband & their child (9); Man #3 + wife, son & wife (4); Man #4 + his elderly mother & father (3). This totals 4 men prepping for themselves plus 17 other uninvolved people. Is that reasonable?

I eventually found out that only two of their family members were passive preppers. None were involved in the MAG, and in many cases, these men had not mentioned that they were prepping for their family members and that they were expected to join them at their ?retreat?. Several times these guys stated that they just could not turn their non-prepper relatives away. As you can imagine, this was a show-stopper for me.

The reason I bring this scenario to your attention is that since then, I have found that most preppers do not define for themselves who they are prepping for, nor do they place a realistic limit on how many people their MAG can support. If you don?t know how many people are in your MAG and what their capabilities and liabilities are, how can you prepare to support them? Were these family members actually in the MAG? Should they be? There are so many unanswered questions related to this scenario. I mention it mainly to get people to think about the specifics of defining what a MAG is for and what a MAG member is. So, how does this compare to the MAGs you are familiar with?

[pkveazey]

I read all these posts and really liked them. Each one of us has his/her own ideas about how we plan to survive. Rules: Rules are fine and necessary up to a point. Too many rules can be harmful. Just look at our own country. We started out with some really good basic rules and now we have a rule for every step we take. If it wasn't for all these people, we wouldn't need any damn rules. When all is said and done, just surviving is rule number one. I think that being quiet and observing people is the best method of deciding who I want to associate myself with in a SHTF scenario. It doesn't take long to find out who is an asset and who is a liability. I hang around here on Unchained Preppers because the folks that participate grab me as being OK and worth helping and being helped. My idea on surviving is to approach it based on my abilities based on my age, past training, and experience. Guess what? I have heirloom seeds and hybrid seeds but have no intention of planting a garden. Hell, I grew up on a farm and feel perfectly able to maintain a garden, but my seeds are for bartering with someone who is younger and more able to do garden work. Hey, here's a deal for you. I'll give you some seeds and you give me a negotiated percent of the harvested crop. Everybody wins and everybody survives. In that situation there is only one rule. Give me what you agreed to. In the end, I plan to survive as long as possible and hope to be the last man standing. I won't be, but that is my plan.

[JohnyMac]

Here is a good video exactly what we are talking about in this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drAf4e7QuVo

[Searchboss]

Pkveazey, I agree with you that this forum seems to have a great group of people on it. This has been a great discussion.

When it comes to forming a MAG, the people in it will probably be somewhat like a family or clan. The adage about us being able to choose our friends, but not being able to pick our family members comes to mind. It would be great if everyone in a MAG were close friends, but the truth is that unless it is a very small MAG, most will not be our chosen friends, but instead could be acquaintances who may be family members of our friends or neighbors who are members of the MAG. We may or may not particularly like them, but we will have to learn to live and work with them if the MAG is to succeed.

The key is that each member of the MAG has to be willing to pull their weight and contribute to the MAG in some way. This contribution will be different based on the individual?s skills and abilities. There needs to be enough able-bodied people available who are capable of, and willing to do the physically demanding tasks so they get done while others may contribute by doing other tasks that may be physically easier, but just as important.

Problems start when a member is perceived as not being an asset to the MAG. I think that every family has at least one member who is viewed as lazy or a slacker and does not want to do their chore which shifts the burden to the rest of the family members. Usually, a family will make excuses for that shirking member, but in the end, they are still a member of the family. A MAG will probably not be quite so forgiving.

This has been a productive thread. It has made me rethink the subject of MAGs again. I am glad to note that most of the comments are in line with my personal views of what a MAG is, so I may be looking at things through the right lens. How MAGs are managed seems to be a toss-up. Some people want more rules, some want less. Very few MAGs have or seem to be willing to adopt a written constitution, agreement, or set of values and basic rules that they all agree to follow. I think that this will become an impediment if the SHTF. They will have to try to figure out how to manage themselves and address the hard questions during the stress of a crisis as the situation quickly changes, as they always do. Each MAG is different and will have to figure out the best way for them to move forward.

For those of you who are in or have formed a MAG, please post from time to time about how your MAG is doing, how it is managed, and how it has changed. We can all learn from what others are doing, even if it is an example of what not to do.

[Sir John Honeybucket]

THIS is a good discussion!

The MAG topic is one that many people, myself included, really don't analyze deeply. To me (ymmv) 99% of what we call "survival" was taught in old Home Economics classes:

1. Shelter
2. Water
3. Fire/kitchen

The last 1% is SECURITY;  the ABILITY to hang-on to your shelter, water and fire in the face of criminal attack; this ofcourse is where your guns and fireteam tactics would become necessary. 

Any team MUST enhance the points above, or else you must consider whether they are worth keeping on the team.'  Let's have a look:

1.  Shelter.  This BEGINS with your individual choice of clothing, boots and etc. Your first layer of 'shelter' are the clothes on your back.  What does your clothing choice do for your survival and maybe even comfort?  What works in South Florida will kill you by lunchtime in Northern Idaho, much of the year.   Carefully analyze how does your MAG recruit dresses for shooting and other activities. The next and to me, MOST important layer of 'shelter' is your home and it's neighborhood.  Urban, suburbia, small town or deep country?  Learn to optimize you home.  For us, we live in a very rural area, surrounded by forests, watermen and farmers and have a bit less than one acre of our own, so we are fortunate to have land for our little gardens, wood lot and etc.

2. Water: By this I mean SAFE drinkable/cooking water is absolutely necessary for your survival and having a life worth living. The ability to wash yourself, your clothes and eating utensils is hugely important. Again, we live in a highly rural environment, so our deep well is where we routinely get our water.  However, in other environments, the rules change.  Cities: learn where low spigots are on tall buildings, to get short term water. As a rule, the further out of the city you are, the more access you have to water, IF you know where to look and how to purify it.  Does your MAG help or hinder your access to clean water?

3. Fire/Kitchen.  I like sushi as much as the next guy, but in a survival situation, the danger of food pathogens in raw foods are ever present, so you must assume that cooking of food ( a survival skill...) is going to be the rule. Does your MAG assist you in collecting, then cooking good, nutritious and FILLING foods?  If not, why not? If the MAG gives you more mouths to feed with no significant return on investment, leave before things go bad. You cannot afford to be running a Welfare Office.

Defence of the home, water and kitchen is the last 1%, not because it's unimportant, it's crucial, but your rifles , optics and fire teams are for one reason, to hang-on to your 1, 2, &3. As the saying goes "You rarely NEED a gun, but when you do, nothing else will do.".  Does your MAG own and TRAIN with firearms? Do you train in watch standing, patrolling, layered, fire team tactics, or is it at best a mob, blazing away and a lot of nothing?  I can tell you from experience that the difference between a mob versus an Army is hugely important. If your MAG will not enhance your ability to detect a threat and project force if needed, you need to either fix this failure, or leave, why waste you time and resources if there is no gain?

Another reason to join an MAG would be access to critical skills and specialists. I'd stack them in roughly this order:

A. Medical, doctors, dentists, mil medics, nurses .

B. Skilled members: farmers, watermen, radio operators/monitors ( I live on the Chesapeake Bay), --- who else ?

C. I'd like a MAG member who owns an off-grid brewery !!! 

Nice to have: Special operators, Law Enforcement people (both pref retired), boat captains and crew, aircraft pilots, successful hunters with their rifles.

So, does the MAG add to, or detract from YOUR goals of a good life in rotten times? Remember TEAM CONCEPT: you must recruit, or train what you need, but numbers of warm bodies is not the goal; SKILLS and attitudes are the goal. I can train a person to stand watch, but if they're lazy, dishonest and unreliable, I won't even try to train that out of them. Because it's difficult to push those types of people out the door post-event, the logical option is to never let them in the door and best that they don't even know about your MAG.

    "Yeah I don't know WHY JohnyMac threw me out of his Pa Mountain Club" but man they have a lot of food and pretty sheep     and I know right where they iz and how to get'em..." 

This will not end well. 

EXAMPLE of Mutual Aid: I am old, my body is a derelict vessel adrift in this sea of life and would be considered to be a hazard to navigation if I were in the water.  However, over the decades, my skills and LOCATION were optimized for living well in tough times.  So, if I had some 20 to 40 year old, combat vets with the right attitude and some skills, but they live up in D.C. ( or some other Hellscape ) I'd likely see a MUTUAL benefit if we combined as a team.  I get trained. disciplined and experienced watch standers, extra ( and strong ) hands for tasks and etc. and THEY gain a sustained bug-out location, a secure place for their forward deployed equipment and food for when they MUST bug-out, when their cities are about to go lethal on them.  Being a former soldier & sailboat cruiser' I can show them the best E&E water routes & access points to my property, help to set-up their emergency comms between us and advise on what kind of very portable boat;/kayak they would need to get here without needing highways. (Waterways ARE the original 'highways'. That would be an example of a MUTUAL AID scenario.

[Searchboss]

THIS is a good discussion!

 I'd like a MAG member who owns an off-grid brewery !!! 

Sir John, you make some excellent points. This sounds like a MAG I could work with. Keep stirring!

[pkveazey]

Sir John, you live on the wrong end of the State for off grid breweries.

[JohnyMac]

Great post Sir John   

The MAG I mostly associate with here is our skill set. Alphabet soups go ahead and take notes...

All but two have a amateur radio ticket. Spread across technicians, generals, and extras
RN's,
IT specialists
certified gardeners
farmers both professional and hobby farms
Big equipment operators, with equipment
Chef's, yes professional and hobby chefs
welders
former military
engineers
gun smiths professional and hobby
ammo reloaders
Members in local government (Great for local intel)

Good collections of talents.

The secret to herding the MAG is,

1) Remember, whom ever takes a lead on a subject they become a coach not a manager.
2) Adults do not like to be told to do something. Adults like to know the why first. Then invite them to become part of the solution.
3) Pressure applied to members fails more than it is successful. Think of and use "Pascal's Law" when pressure is used or needed.
4) When an apple starts to rot, remove it ASAP from the barrel. Do not hesitate. Hesitation will kill you every time.
5) Last and probably most important, members of a MAG are volunteers and should be treated as such. They are not employees.