Watched a prepping movement hijacked by non-prepping militia

[HH]

Had been talking with a few people in my area who were giving a go at prepping.  I myself being more of a live ready backwoods type, would give advice on hunting, fishing, bush-craft, etc.  I have recently noticed that some of these people have aligned themselves more with non-prepping militia types.  I have no problem with militias mind you, however these seem to be structured more like urban street gangs who look to others for sustenance in exchange for protection.  This seems awful war-lordy to me.  So it seems to me that in my area I will not only have to deal with what every the crisis is but these ass-clowns also.  Has anyone else ran into this.  I have been fighting thug warlords most of my adult life during military operations and have no problem planting these if the need arises.  Any thoughts? Advice?

[Well-Prepared Witch]

The philosophy and mind sets of a lot of preppers are one of the reasons I pulled back from most prepping forums/community.  I don't want the sort of people whose first response to a crisis is to grab a gun and plan on going Rambo.  I want people who look at prepping as a large subject covering everything from preparing for job loss to hurricanes to SHTF and TEOTWAWKI.  The militia mindset in prepping is very concerning to me, too.

[special-k]

...and have no problem planting these if the need arises...

An anonymous wise man once said, "You gotta do what ya gotta do."

While I'm at it, I'll throw another quote out there:
"Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer."


I've got nothing unique to add, but I'll get the ball rolling by stating the obvious.  If you're pretty sure you're gonna have to "socialize" with these particular wolves sooner or later proceeding WROL, here are some thoughts about what could be done now (preparation), BEFORE the SHTF:

Be passive.  Try to stay off of their radar.  Gather intel from a distance, such as second hand sources (spies - witting or unwitting).  There's nothing like some alcohol to start some gums a bumpin'.

OR

Be active.  Gather maximum intel + gain their trust by getting acquainted/befriending these wolves.  Maybe even join at some level.

 

[Burt Gummer]

Good topic HH

A warlord is just the head of a govenment (gang) to stupid to set up a sustainable system of predation by endearing and legitimizing himself to his prey.

A militia is supposed to be a volunteer civilian army (minuteman) type deal. Temporary and only in time of need because it's not a sustainable business model without a steady source of income yet still lots of expenses.

So upon muster and post event the militia leadership has to choose between sustaining it's self through use of force and aggression or face a slow dissolvement of power.

So i'd say yeah watch out for these guys...

But then again speaking from experience having been in a gang (army) plus having stared down into a mass grave, lets just say gives me the appreciation for and individual's use of force of arms, and a knowledge of human frailty...

Also as a serious militia wouldn't discount bush crafting / hunting.

[JohnyMac]

Ditto HH - Good subject.

IMO prepping is a series of things a prepper has to do. No one thing should take president over another.

> Beans, Bullets and Band-aides put away
> A Community connection. Nobody will survive without their neighbors help. And vice versa.
> Security

Your post is directed at security so lets chat about that.

Security not only means defensive security but offensive security. If you and your family think you will survive a TEOTWAWKI by hiding in your castle you will all perish (defensive). In order for your family to survive you also need offensive security.

Offensive security includes but not limited too:

> Road security to monitor who comes in and who goes out
> Patrolling your AO to keep out undesirables, and
> Taking action on a threat once identified.

Now I was never in the military so I attend training classes on how to achieve defensive and offensive security. If the WROL comes the Community may hire some  Ronin'sto augment the Community security force.


   

[Burt Gummer]

It is my distinct hope that in our modern world and post "event" we as a society can understand the benefit of a privatized defence force and law arbitration system. This would Allow Jmac to indirectly employ say; Kentactic voluntarily.
And who wouldn't want him providing overwatch... 

[crudos]

Great thread topic and some fantastic responses so far. My couple of cents... part of prepping for almost any situation is security of the family and home. What form that takes varies according to each person and particular event. It can be a fine line from building community of like-minded people to becoming militia to becoming a feudal warlord-type of structure. And it doesn't even have to follow that particular order, as some are ready to jump right into warlord-mode at the drop of the hat. The survivalist movement has/had the same issues and seemed like a magnet for the mentally weak and unstable. HH, I don't have any great advice for what the future might hold, but would emphasis working on getting to know those around you and those you'd like around you and see what develops. Don't let fear overtake reason, because once you start down that path, it can be very hard to take another direction.

[Burt Gummer]

Don't let fear overtake reason, because once you start down that path, it can be very hard to take another direction.

Sry I couldn't resist.
Great insight crudos. 

[Erick]

Training is the key to security.
2 trained men are worth more than 5-6 yahoos.

Get training .
Not just the common square range stuff pumping bullets into paper and berms but real small unit tactics.

even though JohnyMac is 100% .civ because he has recently received the right training him and me together could wipe out quite a few jackasses.

[thedigininja]

haha, burt. nice.

being an ex member of 2 groups that very quickly went paramilitary although I may not agree with their methods and mindsets I do see the need for their kind both now and post collapse. you see, the areas where we (they) were (are) operating in are areas which are pretty much forgotten or ignored by the police but not by undesirables making it rather important for people to take care of themselves. 

what was described in the original post sounds more like a symbiosis to me. different entities with different strengths augmenting each other's existence. hopefully they all rub off on each other a bit and make it a more well rounded community (in a perfect world).

[JohnyMac]

"even though JohnyMac is 100% .civ because he has recently received the right training him and me together could wipe out quite a few jackasses."  Erick!

[NativeSon]

I just watched the entire California State Militia collapse. There's nary but a trace of them on the internet now. They were easily 400 strong, but had weak leadership, weak organization, and they thought of it as a social club.

Having been in the Army and been in firefights, it's my thought that once you pick up arms, you plan to be the best or you plan to be dead. The militia had general tactics, but they were all retards that were playing "Army" instead of focusing on the important tasks at hand, which included more than just being a paramilitary force. Instead of having a basic skillset for everyone, they had specializations and nobody was truly cross trained.

[Burt Gummer]

I just watched the entire California State Militia collapse. There's nary but a trace of them on the internet now. They were easily 400 strong, but had weak leadership, weak organization, and they thought of it as a social club.

Having been in the Army and been in firefights, it's my thought that once you pick up arms, you plan to be the best or you plan to be dead. The militia had general tactics, but they were all retards that were playing "Army" instead of focusing on the important tasks at hand, which included more than just being a paramilitary force. Instead of having a basic skillset for everyone, they had specializations and nobody was truly cross trained.

Dropped by a "militia" once and that was my observation too. too many 40+ out of shape reliving the glory days of when they were in the air national guard. Also it's all very reminiscent of "Red Dawn"  80's mentality.

[NativeSon]

They wore uniforms, held formation, assigned ranks... completely ridiculous.

I figure that if I had to form a militia, I'd run it warband style; Chieftain, a few captains, and everyone else.

[Grudgie]

They wore uniforms, held formation, assigned ranks... completely ridiculous.

I figure that if I had to form a militia, I'd run it warband style; Chieftain, a few captains, and everyone else.

Agree with you there. Militias are focusing way to much on conventional warfare when they need to focus more on guerrilla. Being that most of them come from military background it makes sense. If two well trained men can take on 5-6 yahoos, a well trained hunter with a bolt action can take on two well trained men.

[NativeSon]

The only way to take on an organized force is with guerrilla tactics. History has shown this readily enough.

The colonists and the Redcoats, the Indians and Custer,  the VC and America, the Mujaheddin and the Soviets, the Taliban and NATO.

I'm a firm believer of running drills until people collapse from exhaustion then running them some more. No amount of marching around or looking the same will beat actually doing the job.

[JohnyMac]

NativeSon, with you being former military I would like to read your thoughts on defensive and offensive defense of your redoubt. 

For example is sending out patrols to monitor the AO a defensive or offensive tactic? To control the ingress / egress to a redoubt community a defensive or offensive tactic?

Thanks...

[Well-Prepared Witch]

But isn't all this "so and so can take out thus and such" and "this isn't a good militia" talk exactly the problem that HH was talking about?  Prepping, at least as I choose to do it, is about learning skills, putting up supplies, getting into the mindset of being ready for disasters, learning how to build community, etc.  While weapons and tactics may be part of that, why do most prepping discussions devolve into exactly that kind of "Red Dawn" talk?

Not to pick on you guys, but I think you just proved HH's point.

[JohnyMac]

Maybe Wellie, however I see things like what is happening in Chicago, St. Louis, Baltimore, Philadelphia, etc. and I can only think that things could go WROL over night; if the correct amount of gasoline is applied to the spark. 

Waiting for someone or a group to walk up to your castle to take what is yours is letting down my wife and family.

As I wrote earlier on this topic, I think that everything is a balance.

"> Beans, Bullets and Band-aides put away
> A Community connection. Nobody will survive without their neighbors help. And vice versa.
> Security" 

[rah45]

Wellie, I see your point and agree to an extent. This is how I see it...

Preparedness isn't just weapons and ammo. It's food, water, band aids,  toilet paper, coloring books and crayons for kids, tampons for wifey, etc. However, all of that is for naught if someone else kills you or steals your stuff. If you live in an area that has a substantial number of people and the world around you goes crazy, the possibility of encountering hostile humans is pretty darn high. I'm more afraid of humans than I am of a pandemic or natural disaster. Humans are intelligent and potentially evil creatures when placed into unforeseen, horrible situations. I think if most of us lived much farther away from any significant civilization, our prepping concerns and efforts would be drastically different - more focused on supplies that aren't combat-oriented.

[Kentactic]

They wore uniforms, held formation, assigned ranks... completely ridiculous.

I figure that if I had to form a militia, I'd run it warband style; Chieftain, a few captains, and everyone else.

Yep

[NativeSon]

NativeSon, with you being former military I would like to read your thoughts on defensive and offensive defense of your redoubt. 

For example is sending out patrols to monitor the AO a defensive or offensive tactic? To control the ingress / egress to a redoubt community a defensive or offensive tactic?

Thanks...

I'll reply to that via email. I'll elaborate for you.