Author Topic: Is a Cashless Society in our Future  (Read 834 times)

Offline JohnyMac

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Is a Cashless Society in our Future
« on: February 02, 2016, 10:38:29 AM »
I am hearing more and more about central banks around the world pushing for a cashless society.

For banks and .gov it makes total sense. Total sense in that they will have total control of your money and what you do with it. I also think that the sheeple will be totally o-Kay with this development. After all, who carries cash anymore...Right?  :sarcasm:

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 12:09:50 PM by JohnyMac »
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Offline Nemo

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Re: Is a Cahless Society in our Future
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2016, 11:06:41 AM »
World gets into the handbasket, a credit/debit card makes poor TP.  So keep a dollar or 2 at home. 

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Offline Kbop

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Re: Is a Cahless Society in our Future
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2016, 11:44:09 AM »
"David Gauke, exchequer secretary, has criticised cash-in-hand payments as morally wrong, but just how much of the UK's tax gap do they account for, and where is the rest of our unpaid tax lost? "
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2012/jul/24/tax-taxavoidance

let see, government officials on both sides of the pond think paying cash is immoral?!?
 - i lament for the days of my youth raking leaves and cutting grass for pocket change.
 - i once belonged to a barter club in Denver CO USA, it was shut down by tax collectors.

the digital printer and scanner has made paper money rather risky - easy to copy and print.
metallic coinage is too expensive, heavy and cumbersome for some uses.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/01/california-man-pays-off-13000-property-tax-bill-in-coins-dollar-bills/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2015/02/03/texas-man-arrested-after-attempt-to-pay-taxes-with-dollar-bills/#b6f55fe65efc

i could see the government use monitored accounts to 'automatically' remove taxes from every transaction and then force a prohibitive process to clawback the tax paid if it doesn't apply.

very extractive and non-inclusive.  it could further hinder the creative destruction that has underpinned growth in the USA.

it would further marginalize people on the lower rungs of the social/economic ladder.  Especially if the method of use was a credit or debit card model.

no longer able to hedge inflation by diversifying into held commodities.
it would probably create another or enlarge the current underground economy/blackmarket.
- i wonder how the Amish might work with this?

greater loss of privacy/anonymity.

we already have problems in several markets with the velocity of money.  You could have a financial crash at a speed that - at least for me - would be incomprehensible.  Hyperinflation could advance so fast that you could loose your buying power while walking across the street.

loosing a dollar bill to a sudden wind gust is annoying.  loosing my 'money token' would loose my financial identity for...?  this could be a problem if you get robbed.

i see the opportunity for employers to pay their employees daily. - i don't think it would happen.  The longer they hold your wages the more money they make.  From the employers perspective, it would cost them more.

One power failure or computer glitch or hack away from loosing your financial identity.

i think a cashless society is inevitable with our current  governmental, cultural and financial markets.  It would have some huge benefits and some huge risks.  i don't think our society is ready and i don't think the technology bullet-proof enough yet.

 :popcorn:

US Fed law.
Title 31 (Money and Finance), Subtitle IV (Money), Chapter 51 (Coins and Currency), Subchapter I (Monetary System), Section 5103 (Legal Tender) of the United States Code states:
United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Is a Cashless Society in our Future
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2016, 12:22:17 PM »
So Kbop, do you think we are heading towards a cashless society?

IMO, if this happened a few things would happen and here are some...

1) A rush to use reserved cash sitting in the home as a security blanket. Hence inflation would kick in for commodities.
2) People would stock up (Reread #1) on bartering tools like: Ammo, food (vegetable plus protein), alcohol, cigarettes, etc
3) Like your experience Kbop, bartering clubs would pop up. "I will trade x skill for Y payment." Reread #2  ;D
4) Our/your government and the agencies who do their bidding (IRS, BATF&E) would be hated even more than they are now. There would be a lot
    more Waco, Ruby Ridges, Burns, OR. Mmmmmm  :gunner:

Anyhow, the canary in the mine will be countries in the EU. Stay tuned... :popcorn:
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Offline Kbop

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Re: Is a Cashless Society in our Future
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2016, 06:38:49 PM »
sorry for the wordy posts on this - but i'm fascinated by this subject.

JohnyMac, i do think we're heading in that direction. 
we tried it with the Gold/US Dollar and later the petro/dollar.
history is full of currency/money changes.  The roll out of the Euro is the most recent one i can think of.  I remember the airports had kiosks with Plexiglas bins so you could donate your Lira, DMarks, etc. to charity.
it would make international trade nearly effortless - assuming the internet stays intact.
to your points.
Oh yeah, couches would be the cleanest they've been in years.  people would scrounge every coin and bill they could find during the exchange period.  I do wonder if cashing out into a commodity for safe keeping would be wise - as the kinks are worked out.  there would a huge backlash/resistance - just like Europe had when the Euro rolled out. 

I wonder if it would require a Constitutional Convention or at least an amendment in the TUSofA.

One question i'm intrigued by - who and how will seigniorage be controled/arbitrated?
What about standardizing interest rates?  property rights?  capital flight?  direct commodity exchange? Non monetized service exchange?

it would be an interesting experiment.  I doubt it could occur in the next 20+ years without some massive governmental/cultural shifts around the world.  It would be easier to switch to a convertible exchange note of some type.  but convertible to what?  I can't think of anything without the baggage of the past or too easily manipulated.  i don't think the current Bank for International Settlements could work within a world wide currency.  I just don't see most polities willingly giving up that power. 

 :sarcasm:
scenario 1
so how about;  A North American currency merging with a South American & BRICS currency.  Asia and Africa could create regional currencies.  then we could all gather around a camp fire and sing and decide on how to create a world currency.
scenario 2
The Yanomami spring their long planned conquest of the entire world using their - ironically superior - stone age technology and force their capital system on the rest of us.  Including the use of their currency.
scenario 3
SHTF has occurred and modern trade consists entirely of barter.  The entire world is the distance you can walk in a day or two. - salt or firewater would work.  trade would be commodity and labor exchange.

I just don't think - that as a species at our current cultural development - we are ready for that yet.  Too much historical baggage.  could you imagine getting just the G8 to enter into a single monetary format?  wars have started over less.  i seem to recall the French sending a warship to New York harbor in the summer of 1971 over an issue less thorny - just a few tons of gold.

can you think of a way that you could get every nation on earth to adapt a world currency without lethal coercion?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 06:44:36 PM by Kbop »

Offline Kentactic

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Re: Is a Cashless Society in our Future
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2016, 06:42:46 PM »
I think a cashless society will exist in my assumed lifetime. However a medium-of-exchangeless society will never exist. So long as there is a law that restricts free trade, there will be a medium of exchange to get around it undetected.
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Offline Kbop

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Re: Is a Cashless Society in our Future
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2016, 06:47:43 PM »
sorry, i forgot one thing in all of that earlier diatribe.

the only way a cashless society could work is if it was world wide.
Like Kentactic noted - you will always have some medium of exchange. cash by any other color would still be green - with apologies to the Bard.