Help Choosing Land for Place to Live

[Grudgie]

I don't really know much about land or how to live off of it. But I will sure as dam well try.

I am just in the brainstorming phase really. I am young and I have a lot of time to gather knowledge and plan this out (I'm 20 for all you curious cats out there).

I've been looking around on landsof'insert name of state here' for awhile. Great site.

I was wondering if you guys could share some of your thoughts on which part of the country I should be looking to live.

Here is a list of priorities I want in land:
- Water. Either plentiful well water sites or a good surface water stream nearby. Preferably both.
- Land that is good for growing general vegtables and grain
- A climate that is suitable for atleast a 4-5 month growing season.
- Plentiful animal life that I can shoot
- Suitable vegetation to accomodate a hive or so of bees
- Land that can grow Fruit trees/vines/berry bushes
- Atleast a little rain every now and then


And a few bugaboos that aren't really esiential:
- A place free of dam mosquitos!
- A state preferably with good gun laws (Whyoming, Montana, etc)
- Would be pretty cool to have a few harvestable maple trees but I know that is very regional
- Would prefer cheaper acerage land that I can build upon and improve
- I want to step outside and be able to shoot a .308 and not fear hitting someone for 360 degrees.

I'll list more if I think of any. So whose got some ideas?

[NOLA556]

many of the parameters that you listed come with one major downfall: employment. trust me bro, I'd LOVE to live a million miles from nowhere but I'm nowhere near the level of skill and experience that a lifestyle like that would require, and the idea of coming up with enough money to fund that kind of move seems like a pipe dream for me. IMHO the first two things you should think about with regards to this topic are:

A - if you can't provide yourself with everything you need, how will you obtain those things? (I.E. you need some form of currency to obtain essentials, whether it be money, services, trade, etc.)

B - how will you gather the initial funds necessary to relocate?

those are the two things that are really holding me back from making any major relocation decisions.

just food for thought.

and to answer your actual question, I don't really care what state it is, as long as I can be out in the sticks and not worry about bogus laws because there's no one around to enforce them. 

[Grudgie]

Well I have quite a bit of money saved up. How much exactly I will not say, but I will say that it is extremely ample.

I was hoping to use the GI bill to go to a gunsmithing school. This way I could possibly perform simple gunsmithing services over the internet. That and sell honey online $8 a quart.

Also I seriously considering joining the Navy and becoming a Corpsman. Then save up nearly everything I earn.

But I am just getting ideas by looking into land right now. How I earn money is a different discussion.

[EJR914]

Look in the Mid-West, to just plain out west.  Still low populations, compared to CA and the East Coast.

A lot of land out in TX, CO would be a good place, we have a poster from there, Montana looks awesome, I loved Wyoming and Idaho as well.  There is also always Alaska.  Check into a few of those places and you're look at a perfect place to live.

[Colombo]

"- Plentiful animal life that I can shoot"


Love it, I think that deserves a +

[JohnyMac]

RIGHT ON GRUDGIE!

My brother and I went through this process back in 2004. I would say drop me a PM with your phone number and we could chat but instead lets use your subject line so everyone can add to the discussion. I am also sure there are some folks out there that are struggling with the same question. 

Part One:
My brother and I now both live in the Northeast. My brother near the Philadelphia area and I live in Rhode Island (Same size of the Philly area LOL). We wanted land that could do the following:

> No more then a 4 hr drive for either of us
> A gun friendly/hunting state
> Remote
> Cheap
> Easy to defend
> Running water
> good soil
> Mostly hard wooded

I grabbed a Northeast USA map from AAA and drew a 240 mile circle from my brothers home and then my home. Well the two circles intersected in Hancock, NY. Well I wouldn't live in NY for all of the tea in China BUT Hancock was across the Delaware River from PA. Well I did a little more research and booked a room for my brother & his wife and my lovely wife. It was a couple of rooms over a Tavern. :-)

Once there we drove around for a day and then recruited a real estate agent. Well she showed us a bunch of properties however they were all out of our price range. The owner of the Tavern knew what we were looking for and our price range. He suggested that we look west one county over. His reasoning was that folks from NYC were buying up land around Hancock and now in Wayne County.

We went home and my brother and I started scouring land for sale in the next county over. The Tavern owner was right - Land was about 50% less then in the county we were looking. Well my brother took the bull by the horns and contacted a another real estate agent who's office was in the middle of the county.

A few weeks later we went back to our Tavern with the rooms above (We loved that Tavern). Spread out a maps on the bar and started to get advise from the Tavern owner and several regulars. The next day we met with the new real estate agent and started looking again. We must of looked like we had money as she showed us land still out side of our means until we hit the last piece adjacent to state game lands. Well it met all of our criteria with the exception of the "4 hour drive rule." It would be 5 hours for me and 3 for my brother - Oh well.

The agent told us that there was an offer on the land however the time limit on the offer would be up within 24 hours so if we would like to make an offer she would take it to the owner the next day. So after the two family's weighed the options we decided to make an offer and write a small check. Well 48 hours later we learned from the agent that the folks who had made the original offer finally came up with the cash so they got the property. Oh well....My brother and I were bummed however my wife pointed out that God works in mysterious ways and there was a piece of property in our future we just had to keep looking - She was RIGHT!

My brother was cruising the internet and ran across a piece of property that was in our price range so he called our agent. She told us that in fact the land was listed with her agency  [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at but listed with a different agent within the agency. Well my brother pressed her and drove up on his own the next day to check it out. He called me that evening all a twitter. He was so excited my wife and I drove there that weekend to check it out.

Well I walked the property and took some pictures. That night while my wife and I sat at the Tavern (Our favorite place) we discussed whether the property met our needs.

> No more then a 4 hr drive for either of us. No. It was a 5 hour drive for us and 3 for our brother
> A gun friendly/hunting state. Yes. PA. is the most gun friendly state in the NE with the exception of maybe VT
> Remote. Yes. There was only two roads onto the mountain and 3-4 miles from a very small town.
> Cheap. Yes. About $2k an acre
> Easy to defend.Yes. the mountain was heavily wooded and with only two ways on/off the mountain was easy to defend
> Running water. Yes. There was a creek that ran through the middle of the property
> good soil. Yes. We later found out that the PH of the soil was 6.5 - PERFECT
> Mostly hard wooded. Oh yes. Plenty of fuel

So the next day we drove to the real estate office, made an offer and wrote a deposit. To make a long story short, after some minor haggling the property was ours! All 35 acres. We inked the transfer of the deed in Nov. 2005.

So hopefully my story gives you Grudgie and others some ideas of how to proceed. If you want to know what we did with the property over the next seven years let me know and I will continue with part 2 of the Mac's family BOL.

 
 
 

[APX808]

Hey JohnyMac fantastic post, please keep telling the rest of the story

[crudos]

Good stuff JM!

Can we sticky/pin this, as this will probably be a recurring, but vital topic?

[Grudgie]

That's an awsome tale Johnny Mac. The north east would have been one of the last places I would have looked. Definitely tell us part 2.

[JohnyMac]

Crudos, how do you stick pin? I am ready to post Part 2. Thx

[crudos]

The mods or admin have the power to make a topic stay on top of the page. So it was really a message to them.

[JohnyMac]

Part 2:

November 5, 2005? We now own 34 acres on a 1,700+ foot PA. mountain at about the 1,400 ft level. OH MY GOD what have we done!

My wife and I always go to my brothers for Thanksgiving and stay at my father in laws house in N. Philly. Well over those five or so days we planned our next steps. Those steps were:

> Build a small cabin; 200 sq feet or so
> Figure out a toilet arrangement
> Go deer hunting
> Get to know our neighbors
> Explore every sq foot of the property

As the expression goes, the best laid plans of mice and men often go astray? I was laid off in January 2006. Yup, a new CEO was hired early in 2005. Throughout 2005 he slowly let go all but four of the Sr. Mgmt. team go and I was the last one. After working 19 years for this company it was a blow for sure.

I sat around for a week or two feeling sorry for myself till my wife said, "Hey God has given you an opportunity to get the property set up. Grab the punch list you and your brother put together over Thanksgiving and start making it happen."

So I started planning the building of a cabin (Shed). I drew up plans and then went to Home Depot to get an estimate on the product needed to build the cabin. Well it came to about $2,000-. A couple of days before I ordered the building materials a former employee was in town and we went out to dinner.

He asked what I was up to and I explained to him I was going to build a cabin. He thought I was crazy as I could buy a cabin pre built and delivered for $2,500- plus no labor was needed.

The next day I started looking on line. I found a place close to the cabin that would build me a 12' x 20' cabin with barn doors on the front a regular door on the back and two windows. The cost delivered was $3,000-. I placed the order.

About a week before the delivery of the cabin I went to the property to build a foundation at 6 points of where the cabin was going to go. The foundation was made up of local rocks I pulled from a stone fence on the property.





The cabin was delivered and placed onto the make-shift foundation and leveled. That night I stayed for the first time in our new cabin. No more staying above the tavern for me! By the way, it was March and it was freaken COLD! The next day I went out and bought a small propane heater.

Two days after the delivery of the cabin a previously ordered load of building materials arrived for my brother and I to winterize the cabin. For the time being we also decided to have a port A potty delivered and maintained by a local septic tank company.

The build out materials were:

> Ten rolls of R10 faced insulation
> 25, 5/8? 4 x 8? plywood
> 50, 2 x 4?s
> 5#'s of star screws
> 10, 4" hinges
> And some miscellaneous items that we knew we would need.

Total cost was around $400-.

Well the weekend came and my brother and his son showed up. It took us about a day to hang the insulation and then cover it with plywood. The next day we started on the accommodations.

A little background history applies here. MrsMac and I, previous to moving to Rhode Island lived on a 30' sail boat for eleven years. We called the following ports home:

> Seattle,
> Los Angeles,
> Seattle again,
> Annapolis, and
> Fort Pierce.

So the cabin was set up with boating mind set - Space saving's as a priority.   

We built four bunks out of the 2 x 4's, which were affixed to the wall with the hinges. This allowed the bunks to be up ended or put down depending on the quantity of people there. The bunks were 36" wide and 84" long. Later we added memory foam mattresses which I purchased pre cut from a manufacture here in Rhode Island. They were $75- each and was one of the best investments we ever made. We still have them and when anybody sleeps on them they all claim it was the best nights sleep they ever had.

The next step was to built a counter on the south side of the cabin from the foot of the bunk to the front door. The counter was built at a height of 32" and later we cut a hole for a SS sink I had rescued from someone's trash. We added two butane stoves to the counter to cook on.
 
By Monday at noon we were done and my brother and nephew left to go home. Here are a few more pictures. The one of inside the cabin was in the early spring after I purchased foam mattresses.





The next steps were to add:
> A off the grid 12 volt electrical system,
> Wood stove, and
> Wood shed.

Don't hesitate asking any questions you might have. If one of you gents have done a similar project please share it.

I have also included a link to the original story on a prepping forum (Reply 11) in case the pictures don't copy & paste over.

Let me know if you want me to continue.

[crudos]

Please continue JM!

[Kobalt]

Yes I would very like to see what you have done with your bol.

[NWAprepper]

part 3 please. [url=http://www.freesmileys.or

[APX808]

Really cool JM, please continue  [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

[JohnyMac]

Part 3:

My brother and I were at the property for the May Spring Gobbler season and were sitting around the fire pit enjoying a cigar and an adult beverage. We started to dream up the perfect cabin. An adverse effect of drinking adult beverages to excess causes two things. 1) You come up with some great ideas and 2) The next day you don?t remember what those ideas were.   [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at

The next morning we decided to not go out and chase turkeys instead we brainstormed again on what we chatted about last evening. The ideas we could remember were:

> Need a sink
> Buy mattresses
> Need a wood burning stove
> Need a wood shed
> Need some way of generating electricity
> If you have electricity you need electrical gadgets
> Need a shower, after all my bro is a stinky guy after a week of no water
> Need more windows
> Need a water collection system
> Need a more reliable stove
> Need a mail box
> Need to clear away the meadow below the cabin
> Need light other than Coleman lamps and flash lights

And the list went on and on.

To keep things simple I am going to report on spring, summer and then fall projects with the goal to be 100% self-sustainable by deer season the first week of December, 2006.

Spring:
What we did was break down each project and since I was out of work it was my job to find the cheapest bits and pieces. Once I had acquired the next group of bits and pieces I would take off to the property and start installing them. My brother usually came up on the weekends to help.

Here?s what we did with those bits and pieces in no particular order.

Bought a new 4,000 Watt generator for a steal for $299-; the store was using it as a display so I asked for the store manager and offered him $250-. He countered with $299-. The retail on a new one was $399-.

I found a stainless steel kitchen sink in my neighbor?s trash. He had just remodeled his kitchen so out went the old and in came the new. I traced out the sink and cut a hole in the plywood counter top and dropped it in. I did not run the pipe to the outside as I didn?t want to attract critters to live under the cabin. The drain pipe ran to a Home Depot five gallon bucket which we would empty every morning.

Added a marine foot pump to use at the sink. At first we just used 5 gallon jugs of water we brought from home. Then later that summer we added a water collection drum which we tapped into - More on that in the summer segment.

Found a place in town that made foam, used in pillows and mattresses. I ordered four foam mattresses 32? x 84? and the foam was 5? thick. The cost of each mattress was $75-.

We ordered from the company who built the cabin two more windows and installed one in the back door and one in the front. Now we had cross ventilation. I sewed up curtains for the windows and hung them. We didn't want deer staring in the cabin when we were dressing.

My brother hired a logger who cleared away the meadow south of the cabin. This was a $4,000- expense but was well worth it. The logger and his helper did a lot of extra things that was not in the contract like built us a 50 yard rifle range with back stop. Brought in gravel to build up the area where we parked. Repositioned and filled in the foundation for the cabin; to name a few.

I bought a 30? x 30? & 30? x 72? plastic card table from Home Depot and six folding chairs from Cabela?s. We now had a dining room table and chairs. When it was just my brother we used the 30 x 30 table but when we had a cabin full the 30 x 72 table fit perfectly between the two lower bunks and we could seat six folks easily. If we had more we just put the 30 x 30 table on the end and now we could seat 3-4 more folks.

Built a screen door for the back door.

Bought and installed two Aladdin kerosene lamps. They work GREAT!

Man we were styling!

Part 4 is about what we did to the compound in the summer. I don?t want to bore you folks so if you want more info on the build out of the Mac BOL let me know and I will continue otherwise no harm no foul I will stop.

[goodnightChesty1775]

im looking for the same stuff!!!

as of right now im shooting for wyoming, montana or idaho. all have pretty decent rain and decent growing seasons.

so if you find something let me know!

[Alex1992]

Considering I live in Idaho I am gonna give you advice on Idaho if you wan't to read. Here they are:
Idaho is a desert to a certain extent
Winters are bitter cold and alot of snow and it begins in October or November why it snows early due to elevation etc.
Spring alot of rain which is great unless you are living in the mountains valleys are great.
Summer everything dries up little to no rain we get humidity on and off and temperatures can go high as 90 to 100.
Fall snow and rain and temperatures drop from 90 to 60 really quick.
Now for snow in fall it happens every once in a while.
Now it doesn't alot but it can be middle December and not snow maybe rain and temperatures could 40 to 50 if you're lucky.
There are alot of mountains all across Idaho which benefit farmers because of melting snow.
And there is alot of open spaces and its beautiful the gun laws are awesome and the state is great for corn, wheat, barley, potatoes, tomatoes, you can up a orchard if you want to.

And a personal note if you are planning to move here expect mosquitos, harsh unforgiving weather, lack of water.
The decision is up to you and you only I wish good luck and I hope the best for you

[Alex1992]

Oh and I forgot the weather patterns differ with regions in Idaho so expect different weather patterns. I live in Southeast Idaho and the weather around here is unpredictable.

[Alex1992]

One more thing I don't know much about the Hunting Regulations and the law makers here keep changing and I haven't been hunting for a few years so forgive me if I don't know but Idaho is Hunting/Fishing friendly state. Sorry for the other posts but there is a crap load of detail to go around.

[Grudgie]

Thanks for the information. I will keep Idaho and Pensylvania in mind.

A combination of mosquitos and no water is a no go, even though it seems like a contradiction. Mosquitos lay their eggs in still water.

[NWAprepper]

northern Arkansas has lots of untamed land, 4 seasons, I have been here 40 years. love it. we do have the bugs though. don't bother me much, eat loads of garlic.lol. [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at

[crudos]

Wisconsin - Yeah winters are a pain in the ass, and the summers can get downright tropical, but shit grows, has varied landscape, small rural towns, lots of forested land in the central and northern part of the state, we have decent gun laws. If you are easily offended, stay away from Madison. And Milwaukee is just a complete shit hole of a city. Plus there's the Green Bay Packers. And beer, you get your very own barrel of it when you move in.

[JohnyMac]

Hey Crudos, WI. is a great state as long as you (as stated) stay away from Madison.

It is a bit flat however the water foul hunting is great! I have been invited for deer season but never went. With that said I heard there are some nice bucks in WI.

When I was going there visiting stores...Stay away if you can from Jan - Mar. Not necessarily due to snow but what I remember was the wind. A Constant wind.  Burrrrrrrr. It was cold.

My favorite spots were Green Bay and Lake Geneva.