Unchained Preppers
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Reaver on November 17, 2011, 04:46:32 AM
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First, Mods please feel free to move accordingly. Secondly this is for informational purposes only, Do not attempt to recreate, reenact, or attempt any of what you see and or read.
The term 'guerrilla' originates from the actions of small bands of Spanish soldiers who fought against Napoleon's French army in the Peninsular War (1807-1814). The word 'guerrilla' is Spanish for "little war".
Keep in mind that I am not trying to unlock the key to Guerrilla warfare. I am just doing my part for this community of people who may or may not find them selves in a sticky situation involving superior numbers, tech, equipment.
Remember, There's no secret formula to guerrilla warfare, it's simply the only way to fight when one doesn't have an army to fight with.
Guerrilla warfare has also been called " The way of the weak " though I contest this, Weak should not be valued in numbers. Many many numbers where lost due to the superior fighting spirit of " Weak " guerrilla's.
What is Guerrilla Warfare?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_warfare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_warfare)
How long has it been effective?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_guerrilla_warfare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_guerrilla_warfare)
Why is Guerrilla Warfare so effective?
One of the reasons for the success of guerrilla warfare is that one side is usually fighting at the end of an incredibly long supply line. (Cases in point; the French and Americans in Indo China, The Americans and their allies in Iraq, and NATO in Afghanistan). The guerrillas have the advantage of a short suppply line and can if necessary live off the land. Another reason for guerrilla success is that they fight hit and run warfare, no setpiece battles for them. Guerrillas often share a religion and or genotype with the "locals". Another inherent advantage of the guerrilla is that his weaponry is inferior. He does not have to maintain an army of "techs" to repair his weaponry, each man does his own
Why should Guerrilla warfare be important to you and yours?
The very first key to Guerrilla warfare is to know what your goal is, Establish it. If you are ever forced to use Guerrilla tactics, I will put money on it that the goal will be to maintain your or your loved ones ( including countries ) Liberty and freedom.
Guerrilla warfare should be important to you because if you do not fight in this manner. You will be captured or killed rather quickly and all of this " Prepping " will be used to support an army. ( be it military, government, gangs )
Philosophy
Now days they are referred to as " Terror Tactics " but don't be misled. " Terror tactics " are just another word for guerrilla warfare, the goal of guerrilla warfare is to eliminate the enemies will to fight. Here is an Example.
You have to go to the doctor, nothing serious just a little off feeling. The nurse says " where going to give you an IV " Well after 17 sticks and no lock, what is on your mind? I know whats on my mind. At this point I'm so sore and pissed off I'm just ready to go home lay in bed and day some Night time cough and cold.
Now what the nurse has effectively done is, Poke and prod ( pun intended ) at you enough to get you to just pack up and leave. When dealing with far superior numbers and tactics, this type of warfare is your & I only option.
Be realistic, no matter how many deployments you have done, no matter how many special forces raids you have done. You are not going to stand up and fight a squad size group of soldiers. If you do, your going to die. Plain and simple.
No matter how bad ass your AK or AR is, your not going to stand up against that much firepower and live to tell about it. If you think you are or can, you are just being ignorant and stupid. Turn off that " I'm invincible " switch and be realistic.
Now lets get into these " Terror Tactics "
Booby traps. Remember you don't always have to be seen to insight a jab at the enemy. These cheap Punjii traps can be made in a few minutes using twin and stick, if you don't have a knife to sharpen a stick then use a rock trust me it works.
The Use Of Punji Traps In The Vietnam War (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo7XBaG_-SE#)
Pits, A pit can be filled with any thing. Punjii, Snakes, Grenades, Hell it could just be a make shift spider hole ( fighting position )
Here is an example.
Booby trap (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqVDMwvgiOw#)
Go here. http://www.venombyte.com/venom/snakes/venomous_snakes_by_state.asp (http://www.venombyte.com/venom/snakes/venomous_snakes_by_state.asp)
You will see that there is some kind of rattle snake in every single state in the United States of America with the exception of Alaska.
Do you think it would be hard to miss one rattle snake meal and just bag it. Cinch it to a pole and drop it in a pit? Yeah, you may risk getting bit but make that pit obvious and in experienced men will be out of the fight rather quickly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_explosive_device (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_explosive_device)
These do not have to be heavy ordnance ladies and gents.
A simple Toe popper will work just fine.
(http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt331/juba811/WROL%20and%20Preps/toepopper1_v1.jpg)
Simple enginering can amount to excellent devices. Pliers, Speaker wire, battery, steel wool, the lid from you can of peas. If put together properly an effective land mine has been made.
If this is taken well, I will make a part two.
RvR
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cool, looking forward for the 2nd part Rvr, some K+ for you [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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Good post Reaver!!!
As far as pits go, they can be very effective. The most trouble I had ever gotten in my life regarded a pit a made way back in the day when I was 12.
My friends and I loved to play "war" as kids and growing up we would build forts all the time. In the neighborhood there were a group of older kids who would always tear them down for fun if they found them. Somewhere along the way I got the bright idea of making what I called "Asian tiger pits" I took my dads post hole digger and started digging 2 to 3 foot holes everywhere and carefully concealing them. Florida sand makes it sooo easy to do. Well for a few of them I got the bright idea of taking broken bottles and sticks and digging them into the sides of the wall of the "pits".
To make a long story short..... It worked. Intact it worked too well. The law got involved and so did the lawyers. I got in huge trouble and ended up having to work all through highschool to pay my parents back some of the money it had ended up costing them.
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[img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
You where not supposed to get caught naked. hey-suse
I love the Florida sand man, your right its perfect for that, I never got busted of course.
Thanks for the karma man, appreciate it. :))
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A good write up on how to make booby traps. They are very effective when properly placed in a wartime situation. Just note that in many states booby traps are illegal so I wouldn't suggest practicing making them. And if someone accidentally gets caught in your practice booby trap you have a good chance of losing everything you own not to mention doing some time in the local pokey.
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A good write up on how to make booby traps. They are very effective when properly placed in a wartime situation. Just note that in many states booby traps are illegal so I wouldn't suggest practicing making them. And if someone accidentally gets caught in your practice booby trap you have a good chance of losing everything you own not to mention doing some time in the local pokey.
Good call, I forgot the disclaimer. http://www.arrse.co.uk/at (http://www.smileyvault.co
[img)
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Its been fixed sledge. ^-^
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In my limited study of military tactics and warfare, I've come to realize four things about guerillas:
1) It's a long process. Don't expect the enemy to quit after only a few months, especially if your enemy is a major industrialized power or backed by one. Ho Chi Minh never lived to see his dream of a unified Vietnam come true.
2) You MUST have outside support of some kind. In our case, it would likely be people from neighboring towns or states (businesses, sympathetic neighborhoods, etc). Support can come in the form of money, food, weapons, ammo, clothes or information. No insurgency has survived without it, including the American Patriots of 1775.
3) Fighting is only half the battle. Every movement must have a political faction to win the support of the people. Your enemy will use the radio, TV and newspapers to paint a false picture of your cause. You must either retaliate with words, or take action to prove them wrong. Don't just fight the enemy, help the people you claim to be fighting for. Sure, we can't go around building schools, but a basket of spare rations on a doorstep with a note could change the mind of a prominent community member. Every movement from the VC to the IRA has created an arm to speak on their behalf.
4) Don't worry about the cities. Conventional armies are trained to capture concrete objectives and defend them. I once read an article (which I'll try to find later today) that actually ENCOURAGED an insurgency to hand over control of major cities to the enemy. Why? Cities drain resources. Everything an enemy does is anchored from that one location. It takes lots of soldiers to occupy and maintain order. While they're busy trying to keep the people pacified, you and your force are free to move about in the countryside. In Vietnam, the US/NATO occupied every major city in the South, but the VC dominated the villages, where most of the people lived.
Dealing with special units, like the SEALs or Rangers, is a whole other ballgame....
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If you wouldn't mind crystal I would like to use this in part 2 is that ok with you?
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A key point is population support, many guerrillas fell because they were unable to get the population to help them and join their files.
For instance "Che" Guevara in Bolivia and a few subversive groups operating here in Argentina trying to spread the Cuban revolution.
For the interested in guerrilla warfare I suggest you to read a good Che Guevara's biography and Che Guevara's Bolivia diaries.
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If you wouldn't mind crystal I would like to use this in part 2 is that ok with you?
Go right ahead. Here's that article: http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/parameters/Articles/2010autumn/Jardine.pdf (http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/parameters/Articles/2010autumn/Jardine.pdf)
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A great noise generating booby trap is a few nails, a rat trap, black thread and a few size 11 or musket percussion caps.
First, put two tails in a rat trap from rear to front where the bail strikes when the trap is initiated by the rat. I typically pre drill the holes - One on each corner of the trap and then force the nail through the slightly smaller drilled hole.
Now place the percussion caps on the nail heads and set the trap. Once the trap is triggered the bail springs closed and strike the two percussion caps.
After much experimentation we found that it is better to nail the trap to a tree and run a piece of black thread across the trail at about 5' high with one end of the thread attached to the rat trap and the other end attached to a tree opposite the trap. At 5' there is less opportunity for Mr. Raccoon or Mrs Deer from triggering the warning booby trap.
Have fun and watch your fingers. :))
PS: For a little extra fun, glue a M-80 with water proof fuse to the mouse trap and place the fuse between the two nails with caps on them. :)) :))
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In my limited study of military tactics and warfare, I've come to realize four things about guerillas:
1) It's a long process. Don't expect the enemy to quit after only a few months, especially if your enemy is a major industrialized power or backed by one. Ho Chi Minh never lived to see his dream of a unified Vietnam come true.
2) You MUST have outside support of some kind. In our case, it would likely be people from neighboring towns or states (businesses, sympathetic neighborhoods, etc). Support can come in the form of money, food, weapons, ammo, clothes or information. No insurgency has survived without it, including the American Patriots of 1775.
3) Fighting is only half the battle. Every movement must have a political faction to win the support of the people. Your enemy will use the radio, TV and newspapers to paint a false picture of your cause. You must either retaliate with words, or take action to prove them wrong. Don't just fight the enemy, help the people you claim to be fighting for. Sure, we can't go around building schools, but a basket of spare rations on a doorstep with a note could change the mind of a prominent community member. Every movement from the VC to the IRA has created an arm to speak on their behalf.
4) Don't worry about the cities. Conventional armies are trained to capture concrete objectives and defend them. I once read an article (which I'll try to find later today) that actually ENCOURAGED an insurgency to hand over control of major cities to the enemy. Why? Cities drain resources. Everything an enemy does is anchored from that one location. It takes lots of soldiers to occupy and maintain order. While they're busy trying to keep the people pacified, you and your force are free to move about in the countryside. In Vietnam, the US/NATO occupied every major city in the South, but the VC dominated the villages, where most of the people lived.
Dealing with special units, like the SEALs or Rangers, is a whole other ballgame....
i believe i posted a PRF a while ago either here or on L&L it was titled along the lines of 'insurgents response to defence'...i dont remember it exactly but you pretty much quoted it about the cities
EDIT: nvm lol it was the same article
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this is probably your best work reaver
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I agree with Mountain Reaver...Great job!
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I know Che has already been mentioned, but just to second that motion, I learned alot from his book simply titled "Guerrilla Warfare". I think I paid like $8 for it at Borders. I'd recommend it.
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Reaver thanks to you i have some awesome ideas! :))
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Reaver thanks to you i have some awesome ideas! :))
No back woods, No.
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Reaver thanks to you i have some awesome ideas! :))
[img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
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Reaver thanks to you i have some awesome ideas! :))
[img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
That's what I said. [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
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Lol, don't worry i asked him what he meant and he said in a wrol situation his idea was to dig a really deep hole and they'll fall in and won't be able to get out.
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First and foremost:
We would all do far far better for to call it, 'Asymmetric tactics'.
" Terror tactics " are just another word for guerrilla warfare
No it's not. Maybe with the common vernacular but guerrilla warfare or asymmetric tactics, in and of themselves, are a far cry from terrorism.
I wrote a short work about how and why asymmetric warfare works, (especially in the last 50 years, which I would be happy to post if people want to read it) but honestly the Iraqi war was a poor example for you to use, as that fight has really been over for a couple years now. We've learned the lessons of the past and have far better training as a result. If we, 'lose' in Iraq or Afghanistan, it will be solely due to political reasons and not because of American small-unit tactics nor inability to kill bad guys.
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i'd love to read that dave
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i'd love to read that dave
Sure thing:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zoH6jSepsEzD7YHt_5YAw_7eo7Cj3Kr6CPf1DtwuaV8/edit
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seeing how only 49% of the battles were won by the larger forces from 1950-1999
wouldn't you also venture to say that what made those tactics successful was the small units having automatic weapons such as ar15's ak47's instead of back in the day when one man fired one round?
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his idea was to dig a really deep hole and they'll fall in and won't be able to get out.
Like this one?
http://youtu.be/wzqXggZU3eE (http://youtu.be/wzqXggZU3eE)
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Lol, don't worry i asked him what he meant and he said in a wrol situation his idea was to dig a really deep hole and they'll fall in and won't be able to get out.
followed up by gasoline?
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seeing how only 49% of the battles were won by the larger forces from 1950-1999
wouldn't you also venture to say that what made those tactics successful was the small units having automatic weapons such as ar15's ak47's instead of back in the day when one man fired one round?
No, not at all. Let me explain: FA (Full Auto) weapons have been prevalent on the battlefield since ~WWI (although yes, FA first appeared in medium machine guns it quickly moved to PDW's (though that particular term had yet to evolve) and later light and medium MG's.
Yes, there was a huge change when MG's entered the scene in WWI (arguably the most significant change in warfare within the last 150 years) but that doesn't begin to explain asymmetric fights whatsoever. South African SF ('Recce' they called them) and later Merc's quickly found out. especially because of their medium calibers (.308, in this case) weren't exactly conducive to individual effective FA fire (I have many other examples, if need be). Semi-auto reigned supreme due to it's controllability and effectiveness. 'One man, one round' is not the pivotal point in the change in warfighting; individual prowess and flexibility most decidedly, is.
The advent of micro (and, to a lesser extent, macro) maneuver warfare is what really changed things. By all accounts, if the current US military, even avoid of current technology, were to somehow travel back in time to 1968 in Vietnam, I have no doubt that they would have decisively won that conflict.
So, a correlation of the availability of FA small arms and conflict domination is invalid and a large oversimplification, IMO.
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what i was trying to say was once people started to get 30rd mag rifles 1 man became 10 and manpower ( as far as numbers go) wasn't as important as it used to be in comparison to how you use your men
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what i was trying to say was once people started to get 30rd mag rifles 1 man became 10 and manpower ( as far as numbers go) wasn't as important as it used to be in comparison to how you use your men
I see what you're saying but it works both ways. Hence why FA wasn't necessarily the deal-maker it was promised to be.
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i just suck at wording things [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
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seeing how only 49% of the battles were won by the larger forces from 1950-1999
wouldn't you also venture to say that what made those tactics successful was the small units having automatic weapons such as ar15's ak47's instead of back in the day when one man fired one round?
No, not at all. Let me explain: FA (Full Auto) weapons have been prevalent on the battlefield since ~WWI (although yes, FA first appeared in medium machine guns it quickly moved to PDW's (though that particular term had yet to evolve) and later light and medium MG's.
Yes, there was a huge change when MG's entered the scene in WWI (arguably the most significant change in warfare within the last 150 years) but that doesn't begin to explain asymmetric fights whatsoever. South African SF ('Recce' they called them) and later Merc's quickly found out. especially because of their medium calibers (.308, in this case) weren't exactly conducive to individual effective FA fire (I have many other examples, if need be). Semi-auto reigned supreme due to it's controllability and effectiveness. 'One man, one round' is not the pivotal point in the change in warfighting; individual prowess and flexibility most decidedly, is.
The advent of micro (and, to a lesser extent, macro) maneuver warfare is what really changed things. By all accounts, if the current US military, even avoid of current technology, were to somehow travel back in time to 1968 in Vietnam, I have no doubt that they would have decisively won that conflict.
So, a correlation of the availability of FA small arms and conflict domination is invalid and a large oversimplification, IMO.
I agree with Dave_M about this stuff.
I would like to add that a guerrilla's supply line usually suck so a FA weapon is a luxury you can't afford.
BTW, nice doc about asymmetric warfare Dave [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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Dave_M for President!
Guys this tread is great. Keep it going.
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That was a good read Dave M[URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
I suspect the simplest way to look at successful guerrilla warfare from the weaker side is never to be enticed into a head on fight with equal forces and never to engage the strengths of your opponent. Harassing long range fire from a well chosen point that is immediately abandoned leaving no target to close and destroy with will do more long term damage to enemy moral and effectiveness than trying to pull off a close destroying ambush particularly against experienced troops. The number of troops as well as their required logistics to secure an area will be higher and as a result uneven in employment over a large area. Heavy lines of supply required by an occupying standing army will be more and more vulnerable the larger an area that is being attempted to control. Supply troops or contractors are often less well trained and armed, obviously an effort should be made to gain intelligence to that end. The simple size of this country and the amount of armament the civilian population has makes me doubtful of conventional military action against us.
Then there's the local population in guerrilla warfare, as always it's a balancing act between the occupier and indigenous forces. How well the locals are treated will tip the balance one way or the other, raids, seizures or just plain ill mannered disrespectful attitudes can make life miserable for those short sighted enough to engage in them. There are many historical examples of subtle help tilting the balance, something as simple as a fisherman holding a pole at a different angle could tell friendlies that an ambush is waiting, are you the friendly, or the asshole that tossed that guys house and leered at his daughter?
There's a pile of information out there, take a little time to find it and study it. The U.S. army did a lot of the gathering and writing down and published a number of manuals on this subject. Avoid the typical booby trap manuals and other surplus store ninja fluff and go for the meat and potatoes, go native and use your brain.
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Then there's the local population in guerrilla warfare, as always it's a balancing act between the occupier and indigenous forces. How well the locals are treated will tip the balance one way or the other, raids, seizures or just plain ill mannered disrespectful attitudes can make life miserable for those short sighted enough to engage in them. There are many historical examples of subtle help tilting the balance, something as simple as a fisherman holding a pole at a different angle could tell friendlies that an ambush is waiting, are you the friendly, or the asshole that tossed that guys house and leered at his daughter?
There was an African guerrilla leader that established a strict code for his men. They were not allowed to drink or smoke when people could see them. Additionally, if anyone acted out of line, he was punished publicly so the locals could watch. I can't for the life of me remember who it was, Sipsey Street did an article quoting him.
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Something else everyone must consider is professional training. Washington's Continental Army knew how to maintain and fire their muskets, but it was the Hessian Barron von Steuben who helped furnish their tactics.
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Read this somewhere but cant remember but #1 rule is to Stay Alive. You do no good to whatever cause you are fighting for iF your dead. You need to be able to fight Today,Tomorrow, and Everyday afterwards.
Also might want to talk about ROI or Return On Investment. Basically if you are going to invest in something (such as an Ambush, etc.) are you going to get More in return or Less in return? (Think long term guerilla warfare. your trying to keep yourself alive but cause the enemy to spend as much money,man power, supplies, etc. as possible)
Example of ROI:
S has hit the F. A local gang has been terrorizing your community or AO or whatever. Your investment: Manpower and some supplies to immobilize/destroy their Vic's. Return: They now have to either repair or replace thoes Vic's.
thats just a small example of an ROI, i had others type out but i then realized if i posted some of them they would have A: got deleted or B: we would DEF make an SPLC watch list hahaha
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" Terror tactics " are just another word for guerrilla warfare
No it's not. Maybe with the common vernacular but guerrilla warfare or asymmetric tactics, in and of themselves, are a far cry from terrorism.
So if the Government decided to have a take over, and someone started a guerrilla war.
You honestly think the very first things out of their mouths wouldn't be. " Help us find the terrorist " ?
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Both of these lists are not only amusing, but completely true. Especially for this topic.
http://www.murphys-laws.com/murphy/murphy-war.html (http://www.murphys-laws.com/murphy/murphy-war.html)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2127083/posts (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2127083/posts)
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Funny and true at the same time. It's not often you find so much wisdom compiled onto one page. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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Thanks Reaver. This is quality info. Now Im not going to promise that Im not going to try to re-create any of this, but Ill try not to. The toe popper is fucking genius. Simple and affordable. You get more K+ [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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Thanks Reaver. This is quality info. Now Im not going to promise that Im not going to try to re-create any of this, but Ill try not to. The toe popper is fucking genius. Simple and affordable. You get more K+
Lol, thanks man. I have actually known about that one since I was about 6...it really is amazing I'm still alive ::) (http://www.smileyvault.co
[/quote)
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I completely agree with you on the propagandists use of words to rally people to their cause, but I will say that there is a difference between the two words.
Guerrilla Warfare - A style of combat which focuses on small unit tactics and hit and run maneuvering. Targets are generally, government, military or logistical in nature.
Terrorism - The act of inciting fear and terror within a citizenry by means of violence, most of the time to invoke a desired reaction. Targets are the people of the country, the softer the better.
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Well, you get my point though right?
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So if the Government decided to have a take over, and someone started a guerrilla war.
You honestly think the very first things out of their mouths wouldn't be. " Help us find the terrorist " ?
'take over'? WTF does that mean? Current administrations don't, 'take over' shit; they already have control.
If you have some misguided idea that 1950's tactics would actually work against our current force then you'd be terribly wrong.
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So if the Government decided to have a take over, and someone started a guerrilla war.
You honestly think the very first things out of their mouths wouldn't be. " Help us find the terrorist " ?
'take over'? WTF does that mean? Current administrations don't, 'take over' shit; they already have control.
If you have some misguided idea that 1950's tactics would actually work against our current force then you'd be terribly wrong.
Ok, so IED's and Sniper fire don't kill troops almost every day in Iraq and The Stan almost every day. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
They work.
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I do not see Guerrilla Warfare taking place in the United States unless states start to withdraw from the union do to a crash of the economy and a difference of ideological beliefs.
That's not as far fetched as it may seem. Texas has been the state that usually comes to mind when this topic comes up. However, I think if it were to occur that Montana would be the catalyst that puts the ball in motion.
Bob Fanning and Chuck Baldwin are running for Governor and Lt. Governor of Montana in 2012. If they were to win, which is entirely possible given the state's independent minded population, all bets are off the table.
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Ok, so IED's and Sniper fire don't kill troops almost every day in Iraq and The Stan almost every day. (http://www.smileyvault.co
They work.
[/quote)
2 points:
-The Iraq fight has been done for years now.
-Your idea of, 'works' also involves about a, oh, 50-100:1 kill ratio. You think that's either successful or sustainable? hahaha
I think this is another one of those topics that people will read and go, "oh, those are the crazy gun people we keep hearing about". I think any idea of a, 'revolution' is just mental masturbation for the fringe element. Compare 1968 to today and then check back in.
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I do not see Guerrilla Warfare taking place in the United States unless states start to withdraw from the union do to a crash of the economy and a difference of ideological beliefs.
That's not as far fetched as it may seem. Texas has been the state that usually comes to mind when this topic comes up. However, I think if it were to occur that Montana would be the catalyst that puts the ball in motion.
Bob Fanning and Chuck Baldwin are running for Governor and Lt. Governor of Montana in 2012. If they were to win, which is entirely possible given the state's independent minded population, all bets are off the table.
A Balkanization may indeed precipitate some sort of conflict but I don't see that as the source.
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Ok, so IED's and Sniper fire don't kill troops almost every day in Iraq and The Stan almost every day.
2 points:
-The Iraq fight has been done for years now.
-Your idea of, 'works' also involves about a, oh, 50-100:1 kill ratio. You think that's either successful or sustainable? hahaha
([url]http://www.smileyvault.co[/url]
They work.
[/quote)
In Nam you got similar ratios and you had to retire.
War success is defined by political goals, not casualties.
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I do not see Guerrilla Warfare taking place in the United States unless states start to withdraw from the union do to a crash of the economy and a difference of ideological beliefs.
That's not as far fetched as it may seem. Texas has been the state that usually comes to mind when this topic comes up. However, I think if it were to occur that Montana would be the catalyst that puts the ball in motion.
Bob Fanning and Chuck Baldwin are running for Governor and Lt. Governor of Montana in 2012. If they were to win, which is entirely possible given the state's independent minded population, all bets are off the table.
A Balkanization may indeed precipitate some sort of conflict but I don't see that as the source.
IDK Dave. Have read any of their compositions? They're not big on the Federal Government and think it's beyond repair for several reasons. Baldwin's called on several occasions for Constitution loving Americans to move to Montana and join in a rebirth of God given freedom.
We'll see what happens with those guys up there. It could get interesting. By the way I'm not advocating any sort of rebellion. I'm just a prepper who tries to stay on top of what could occur around me given the information that's available.
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Sledge; any further links on the subject?
Dave; If you don't like the subject, don't read it. The point is Americans are hearing about IED's killing other Americans almost every day. Even if the ratio is ruff someone still goes down.
and as for sustainable.
One can make BP from a compost pile and some charcoal given the right amount of time. Yes, its sustainable Long term warfare.
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Sledge; any further links on the subject?
http://www.alt-market.com/articles/345-a-message-to-the-splc-from-a-montana-extremist (http://www.alt-market.com/articles/345-a-message-to-the-splc-from-a-montana-extremist)
http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/ (http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/)
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Sledge; any further links on the subject?
[url]http://www.alt-market.com/articles/345-a-message-to-the-splc-from-a-montana-extremist[/url] ([url]http://www.alt-market.com/articles/345-a-message-to-the-splc-from-a-montana-extremist[/url])
[url]http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/[/url] ([url]http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/[/url])
Thanks man, I'll be reading those shortly. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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Dave; If you don't like the subject, don't read it. The point is Americans are hearing about IED's killing other Americans almost every day. Even if the ratio is ruff someone still goes down.
and as for sustainable.
One can make BP from a compost pile and some charcoal given the right amount of time. Yes, its sustainable Long term warfare.
By, ?sustainable? I mean this dictionary definition:
able to be maintained or kept going, as an action or process
The only reason why any fight(s) in the M.E. have lasted so long is because Islam is particularly good at recruiting thoughtless zealots from around the world to be effectively culled off by us on a regular basis (well, I suppose not just religious; external nations provide support in the form of logistical supply trains) We certainly are not, contrary to popular belief, losing a damn thing overseas.
Discussions like this make us (the prepper community) look like radical extremists; I thought this page was about prepping? Hell, the name is, ?Straight Prep?.
Preparation for violent defense, such as protection of self and family during a large civil disturbance (large-scale natural disaster, limited nuclear exchange, massive terrorist attack, zombie uprising etc ad nauseum) and preparation for fighting a numerically superior force (your, ?governmental takeover? idea) are distinctly two totally and completely different things. I don?t know if you?re just pretending to be obtuse or just can?t actually see the difference.
To be completely honest, I find shit like this embarrassing to read. I have spent quite of bit of time training men to counter guerrilla tactics and even more time doing it myself. We already have enough violations of OSINT all over the internet for me to even risk that any TTP?s were further disclosed. Oh, yes, I can give you multiple good reasons why a guerrilla fight against the USG would be totally fruitless and would end quickly but my guess is that they would fall upon deaf ears. My final thought is that, yes, I know who has been training US forces to fight against shit just like you are describing and I?ve met many of the subpar people advocating for such a conflict. With this little insider nook I say, ?Good fucking luck?.
If this is the kind of stuff this forum supports or endorses then I?m done.
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[img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
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[img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
If I got a buck each time a member reads something he dislikes and leaves the board...
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If this is the kind of stuff this forum supports or endorses then I?m done.
I don't know if you noticed Dave but this forum doesn't endorse anything. I allow you guys a messure of free speech so long as it doesn't fall into the realm of pointlessness.
Does this topic fit? It all depends on how you apply it. Would knowing how to make a toe popper and using it to deny cover around your BOL be a good tool to have in the kit post collapse? Sure it would. Would knowing how a trained military counters asymmetric tactics be a good thing to know if you were trying to secure your future in an armed world post collapse be a good thing to know? Could be.
Dave, you have our attention is If this is the kind of stuff this forum supports or endorses then I?m done.
that the mark you want to leave behind or would you rather put up with some dumbshit while shepherding us to a greener valley?
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the UN and china are pretty damn big threats, personally i would like to learn tactics in repelling an overwhelming invading force
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Honestly, when I first saw this post I was trying to figure out how it would apply to the prep community. If it was directed towards martial law there are some problems with it ever being used. If that occurred I think our military would be split into a civil war. If we were subject to an inavasion by anyone there wouldn't be time for it. Gas, Bio's and Nukes would be occupying the frontal lobes of your brain.
If it was directed at protecting your bol then it has other problems as well. First off, this is one of those things that you can read and think about, but actually doing it after just reading it is problematic. Kind of like learning to set a snare, some skills are best learned first hand by being shown how to do it in a hands on fashion. Otherwise, you are more than likely going to be playing around with a tangled up mess that isn't going to work.
I don't however, feel embarrassed when reading it. Although, I would like to see more people into prepping, I'm not much concerned about what other people think about my prepping. Kind of like Noah, I just kind of view the skepticism a lot of the public has like an indication of who the potential survivors will be and who are those who will be casualties of a cruel world.
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This whole "Hurr Durr I'm leaving." thing is getting old, I think we need to have a No goodbye post rule. If you want to go just walk away.
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This whole "Hurr Durr I'm leaving." thing is getting old, I think we need to have a No goodbye post rule. If you want to go just walk away.
LOLZ someone who is leaving the board wont give a flying fuck about a no goodbye post rule.
We need to cultivate a ticker skin and accept there will be people thinking stuff we don't like just like in real life, and as you don't quit your job or get divorced when you have a discussion you shouldn't quit the board.
Also saying that an entire board endorses an idea a member posted is having no clue what an internet forum is.
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Yeah, roger that.
Still working on part two guys. Sorry been pretty busy.
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LOLZ someone who is leaving the board wont give a flying fuck about a no goodbye post rule.
We need to cultivate a ticker skin and accept there will be people thinking stuff we don't like just like in real life, and as you don't quit your job or get divorced when you have a discussion you shouldn't quit the board.
Also saying that an entire board endorses an idea a member posted is having no clue what an internet forum is.
The reason I say we should have this rule, is because some people say they are out then they come back. They stir the pot then come back and start posting. If you really have to discuss it, Do it in a PM. Its not good for morale.
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Simmer down guys, Dave is and has always been welcome. Unless your efforts are going to be directed at getting him to stay then keep your ideas under your hat.
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Lot of you guys make me [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at constantly.
I swear, the internet makes me drink more and more.
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We need to cultivate a ticker skin and accept there will be people thinking stuff we don't like just like in real life, and as you don't quit your job or get divorced when you have a discussion you shouldn't quit the board.
Also saying that an entire board endorses an idea a member posted is having no clue what an internet forum is.
Let me spell it out for you:
-Already one forum I'm on has been explicitly targeted by the ACLU and the SPLC. I wan
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Yeah, roger that.
Still working on part two guys. Sorry been pretty busy.
The reason I posted the, 'I'm leaving post' is so I make it emphatically clear that not only do I disprove of the subject but also that I think it's bullshit. After already been involved in one webpage which both the ACLU and the SPLC both highlighted I'd rather not be on another (both for posts which I do not personally endorse).
I have zero interest in aiding nor abetting guerrilla warfare against the USG, which this thread was [very thinly] veiled for. Call it a contentious topic if you want and attempt to fog it but we all know what you are talking about.
Once again, I could highlight many obvious flaws as to why this sort of shit could not happen here but I won't, as they would fall upon deaf ears. Rock on, Reaver. You are one of the reasons why simply preppers are viewed and treated as extremists. I will be removing all copyrighted content from this webpage. Keep on with your self righteous self (and see how your forum grows; or doesn't).
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We need to cultivate a ticker skin and accept there will be people thinking stuff we don't like just like in real life, and as you don't quit your job or get divorced when you have a discussion you shouldn't quit the board.
Also saying that an entire board endorses an idea a member posted is having no clue what an internet forum is.
Let me spell it out for you:
-Already one forum I'm on has been explicitly targeted by the ACLU and the SPLC. I wan
Hey teacher dont leave without finishing your class!! I wan??
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lol wow, ok. So lets talk about GW and automatically ASSUME its directed at our own, ignoring the fact that at the very LEAST both CHINA and RUSSIA have been sharpening their talons and posturing themselves lately.
[URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
Im with Spirit personally, if you wanna leave THAT bad, PM TG and have a great life. Otherwise take some time off from the site and let people stew while you collect yourself. No sense getting all ass hurt (not directed toward anyone in particular seeing as how Ive done it too) over an internet post when things get heated. This forum is kinda like a bitchy girlfriend, sometimes she just pisses you off soooo bad... but you stick around cause the sex is great :))
BTW:
Anyone NOT wanting to be on a liberal "we hate you" list needs to sell or destroy their guns, break out the tie dye and rope sandals and stand in line for their shot of OC. Just sayin :))
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just my .02 directed at Dave:
me personally... I got no plans to participate in a guerrilla campaign against the USG either bro. I don't think many on the forum have that in mind. (of course I can only speak for myself, but it's just the impression I get)
that being said, I think this is a legit topic. many aspects of it can and will be used to fight off ANY aggressors in WROL. now.. are you going to have to propagandize the local citizenry to get them on your side as you roam from town to town? lol... probably not. but other aspects such as sabotage, booby traps, ambush tactics... etc. I think are useful topics.
one thing I do agree with you on is keeping big sis off our backs. whoever has been around long enough to remember when I bugged out from L&L for a few months... I did it because I was all scared when I found out that we had officially earned the status of an SPLC "hate group". of course, I'm sure I was just letting my nerves get to me, and I only came back after realizing that I don't have to participate in a forum for "big brother" to have their eye on me, or any of the rest of you for that matter. so bottom line is, if they want you, they'll get you. no doubt about it. BUT... why help them?
put it this way, I think GW is a legit topic for discussion, but we can all try to do our best to filter what we say and the language we use to give it a strictly informational/educational context.
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just my .02 directed at Dave:
me personally... I got no plans to participate in a guerrilla campaign against the USG either bro. I don't think many on the forum have that in mind. (of course I can only speak for myself, but it's just the impression I get)
that being said, I think this is a legit topic. many aspects of it can and will be used to fight off ANY aggressors in WROL. now.. are you going to have to propagandize the local citizenry to get them on your side as you roam from town to town? lol... probably not. but other aspects such as sabotage, booby traps, ambush tactics... etc. I think are useful topics.
one thing I do agree with you on is keeping big sis off our backs. whoever has been around long enough to remember when I bugged out from L&L for a few months... I did it because I was all scared when I found out that we had officially earned the status of an SPLC "hate group". of course, I'm sure I was just letting my nerves get to me, and I only came back after realizing that I don't have to participate in a forum for "big brother" to have their eye on me, or any of the rest of you for that matter. so bottom line is, if they want you, they'll get you. no doubt about it. BUT... why help them?
put it this way, I think GW is a legit topic for discussion, but we can all try to do our best to filter what we say and the language we use to give it a strictly informational/educational context.
[URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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Big ol Hell F'in Yeah to you, ASPJ.
Feel like I owe you a drink now lol. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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ASP is pretty straight forward as usual. I tend to agree. I personally don't have anything against Guerrilla's and am not sure why we would be studying warfare plans against them. Sure, they are depleting the planet's limited banana supply. And there's no doubt the knuckle draggers are a little on the aggressive side what with them running around throwing tires, beating their chest and what not.
But when you look into their little Guerrilla eyes you can see that they don't really mean to be bad. They just can't help themselves.
So I say live and let live. "Give Guerrilla's a Chance!"
Paul McCartney & WINGS - Live And Let Die (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK2hKzZss5Y#)
Oh Crap, that's live and let die. Oh well.
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Yeah, guys forget about Part two. Just don't worry about it. If your interested do your own research.
and it may sound crazy, just watch your step if your creeping into my AO, wouldn't want any of my crazy idea's blowing off a toe.
You might die of infection. [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
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ASPJ seems to have drank the media's cool aid, so now militias are full of people just jonesing to wage a guerrilla war? so now are you saying everyone who owns an AK is timothy micvey? (however you spell his name) militias won and built this country, they fought santa ana in texas, indians and groups of outlaws all over the country well after and before that.. And its in the Constitution, what good does it do us if everyone has a gun but doesnt know how to operate in a team? 1 million people fighting alone doesnt seem like it would work to well. and yes i said fighting because that is what a militia is for, it doesnt matter who they are fighting, they are a group of citizens who come together and fight for their freedom, protection. you know Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness?
now i personally would not join a militia today because they are plugged 7 ways from sunday by feds and the like, because of comments like that.
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ASPJ seems to have drank the media's cool aid, so now militias are full of people just jonesing to wage a guerrilla war? so now are you saying everyone who owns an AK is timothy micvey? (however you spell his name) militias won and built this country, they fought santa ana in texas, indians and groups of outlaws all over the country well after and before that.. And its in the Constitution, what good does it do us if everyone has a gun but doesnt know how to operate in a team? 1 million people fighting alone doesnt seem like it would work to well. and yes i said fighting because that is what a militia is for, it doesnt matter who they are fighting, they are a group of citizens who come together and fight for their freedom, protection. you know Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness?
now i personally would not join a militia today because they are plugged 7 ways from sunday by feds and the like, because of comments like that.
BRA-FUCKING-VO chesty!!!! +K for you! [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co [url=http://www.freesmileys.or
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ASPJ seems to have drank the media's cool aid, so now militias are full of people just jonesing to wage a guerrilla war? so now are you saying everyone who owns an AK is timothy micvey? (however you spell his name) militias won and built this country, they fought santa ana in texas, indians and groups of outlaws all over the country well after and before that.. And its in the Constitution, what good does it do us if everyone has a gun but doesnt know how to operate in a team? 1 million people fighting alone doesnt seem like it would work to well. and yes i said fighting because that is what a militia is for, it doesnt matter who they are fighting, they are a group of citizens who come together and fight for their freedom, protection. you know Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness?
now i personally would not join a militia today because they are plugged 7 ways from sunday by feds and the like, because of comments like that.
BRA-FUCKING-VO chesty!!!! +K for you!
well thanks my cajun bro lol (http://www.smileyvault.co [url=http://www.freesmileys.or
[/quote)
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Way to blow up our spot Chesty.
I wouldn't be part of any organization that would have me.. it shows they got too loose of a screening process.
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ASPJ seems to have drank the media's cool aid, so now militias are full of people just jonesing to wage a guerrilla war? so now are you saying everyone who owns an AK is timothy micvey? (however you spell his name) militias won and built this country, they fought santa ana in texas, indians and groups of outlaws all over the country well after and before that.. And its in the Constitution, what good does it do us if everyone has a gun but doesnt know how to operate in a team? 1 million people fighting alone doesnt seem like it would work to well. and yes i said fighting because that is what a militia is for, it doesnt matter who they are fighting, they are a group of citizens who come together and fight for their freedom, protection. you know Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness?
now i personally would not join a militia today because they are plugged 7 ways from sunday by feds and the like, because of comments like that.
[URL=http://www.smileyvault.co exactly.
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ASPJ seems to have drank the media's cool aid, so now militias are full of people just jonesing to wage a guerrilla war? so now are you saying everyone who owns an AK is timothy micvey?
now i personally would not join a militia today because they are plugged 7 ways from sunday by feds and the like, because of comments like that.
Actually, ASP is pretty much right on the money. Not all militia's are, but a whole bunch are. Whether they are right in that the Gov. has pooped all over the Constitution is a whole different subject.
I was an LTC in a militia, and that militia was part of a group that was set up to coordinate many militias. You can't tell me that what ASP said was kool aid because I know for a fact that it's not. There are some whacko groups out there that are just chomping at the bit to start some shit. And those militias that are kept in line have more than their share of individuals who could be described as extremists.
As for the "plugged" comment I would say you are right. Google the FBI's operation PATCOM. If you don't think the FBI has a controlling influence in practically every major extremist group in the country through their operatives then you don't know what's going on.
Watch this, I'll get a visit now.
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feds got a dude in every one of them, websites too
trust me it's a real pain in the ass to write up all these situation reports on you guys......... :-X
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feds got a dude in every one of them, websites too
trust me it's a real pain in the ass to write up all these situation reports on you guys......... :-X
Screw that! Send me the address and I'll write my own. :)
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Also, the folks that conspired ways to keep this countys freedoms did so by candle light, not on a public Internet forum for the world to see in broad daylight. Catch my drift? How many different ways can I crack this egg? You people preach opsec but manage to compromise it at any chance. Play with fire, you will get burnt.
You have a point there. A lot of militia's and their members do not advertise a presence on line because of that. Some have their own servers. One has an online name that would make you think you were entering a shopping site.
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Want info on this subject?
Buy this: http://www.majorsurplus.com/Guerrilla-Warfare-P13409C2016.aspx (http://www.majorsurplus.com/Guerrilla-Warfare-P13409C2016.aspx)
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actually, that book speaks mainly on logistics and what not. Not really any true information.
If your open to the idea of " That kind of stuff " get the Improvised munitions and the booby trap Fm's then, unfortunately you have to use your imagination. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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actually, that book speaks mainly on logistics and what not. Not really any true information.
If your open to the idea of " That kind of stuff " get the Improvised munitions and the booby trap Fm's then, unfortunately you have to use your imagination.
I actually bought those as well, and you are correct. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co (http://www.smileyvault.co [/quote)
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If we are not going to talk about certain topics just not to raise a flag, then we could create a bakery board and forget about prepping.
What you are proposing of research by your own goes totally against the goal of an internet forum that is to share ideas an experiences.
Besides all patriot/prepping groups are already being monitored by the feds, so if you are doing everything within the law and sharing information just for educational purposes, what the fuck are you scared about??
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Every state has a militia, it's called the national guard.
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Also, the folks that conspired ways to keep this countys freedoms did so by candle light, not on a public Internet forum for the world to see in broad daylight. Catch my drift?
well in some ways your right, but they did have taverns and huge 'town hall style' meetings and the like, while planning what they would do before,during and after the Revolutionary War. and is the 1st amendment not a viable tool to keep our freedoms?
you are a hypocrite.
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Does everyone feel they've had a chance to state their view on this subject? Good! Cause I think it has been discussed to death and I see no further good out of discussing it further. No one is going to change anyone elses mind.
Do not get personally invested in any topic. If you lose your cool, you lose.
Love you guys.