A thread that could save your life: natural pointers

[1000meterstare]

Stay with me on this one, it's not gonna be a topic with fancy pics and such.  Rifles and shotguns are always gonna be a go-to...but have you evaluated your handgun collection?  Some are natural pointers, some are not.  For example, close your eyes  and pick up a glock and aim it where you think the target should be.  do the same thing with a CZ-75 or a hi-power.  Open your eyes and compare how off-target you are with each one.  You will find the Glock severely lacking.  As much as I love my Sigp220 - it is not a natural pointer - neither is the 1911.  The colt single action army is.  Pirate flintlock pistols were designed with the curved grips for a reason - ancient people aren't necessarily stupid.  Grip angle!!!  First few accurate shots with a handgun always wins.

The list of natural pointers:  german luger 9mm, cz-75, browning hi-power, beretta 92, colt single-action army, smith-and-wesson model 10 and 13, smith-and-wesson m1917, smith-and-wesson j-frame, bisley-style revolvers, cz-82, and walter ppk.  (a few others i forgot to mention, but prolly not many).  Notice: revolvers dominate the list.

Non-pointers (needs more practice to master):  Sigs (as much as I luvs my Sig) , Glocks (especially suck), 1911 (sorry fanboys, the .45 acp created the legend more than the platform), kahr, and most autopistols.

Bottom line:  The 1/4 of of a second or more you save aquiring your target can save your life.  If you don't belive me then try several friends' handguns and you will see what I am talking about.     [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

[EJR914]

Dude, definitely  [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

I don't know about everyone, and I could guess that everyone's grip, hand, wrist, arm, elbow, and shoulder is slightly different, their actual Physiology is slightly different, but for me, my Sig P229 is a natural pointer for me.  I know its not for others.  I close my eyes and point it straight out, and its right where I want it.  I tested it out many times before I bought one, and its always right on.  Don't know why.  It just does.  I agree, go with a natural pointer that works with YOUR Physiology  and that means, yes, going holding it, pointing it, and closing your eyes and pointing it as well.  Like for instance, Glock was not a "natural pointer" for me.  The grip angles sucked on the ones I held, for me.  For other people, THEY LOVE IT.  It depends on the person and their physiology, and everyone's is different.  I wish my physiology fitted GLOCK because they make a hell of a pistol honestly. 

[1000meterstare]

Right on, dude!  My Sig is awesome and accurate for me, just seems like my Hi-Power always points and aquires the target faster... [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

[Reaver]

I dunno dude. Seems like your just trying to give yourself a reason to troll a specific pistol for what ever reason.

But, if you really want to play. Try this. Draw from the holster point at something without using the sites. Then adjust your head to look down the sites and see how close you are to your target.
 This is called point shooting and it may actually save your life.

[1000meterstare]

Not trolling, just sent many thousands of rounds downrange in every platform you can imagine in my 43 years.  No experience there.  BTW - I mentioned many platforms on both sides.  Wanna challenge me to a shooting competition with a handgun?  Any platform you choose, any distance, timed or untimed, you will lose.  Email me for a range meet:  beer_can@live.com.  Step up to the plate. [img]http://www.smileydesign.n

[Reaver]

Not trolling, just sent many thousands of rounds downrange in every platform you can imagine in my 43 years.  No experience there.  BTW - I mentioned many platforms on both sides.  Wanna challenge me to a shooting competition with a handgun?  Any platform you choose, any distance, timed or untimed, you will lose.  Email me for a range meet:  beer_can@live.com.  Step up to the plate. [img]http://www.smileydesign.n

Chuckle. I was simply stating my opinion on your pretty pointless thread. But Ok, I'll take that challenge. I'll even clear your LZ guessing that your still highspeed enough to airborne your way into my range.

Target is a 2 liter jug
100 yards
Ruger Old Army BP pistol  ( You can set your load I already have mine. )
You email me as I'm not wasting my time coming to your range your clearly better. See ya soon.

Reaver1776@gmail.com

[Grudgie]

A GLOCK can be made a natrual pointer just by changing the hand position. Take the GLOCK and use your middle finger as the trigger finger and place your pointer along the side of the frame. This changes the whole angle of the grip and shoots where you point.

[Kentactic]

This is an opinion based thread. Im not here to defend this pistol or that but a Glock is a natural pointer for me. When i open my eyes im amazingly lined up with the sights. Muscle memory will make any pistol a natural pointer if you shoot it enough. Your muscles will naturally point in the direction that is ideal for the pistol youve trained with. So the moral of the story is dont get caught up in make and model and train train train. The make and model of the pistol makes up about 1% of the overall ability of the shooter.

[JohnyMac]

Interesting discussion and challenges.

RvR be careful challenging 1000 Meter to a handgun shooting contest - You will loose! With that said, there really can't be a contest without a bet.  So 1000 Meter what ya' putting up for a bet? RvR???

On a similar note: My wife couldn't hit the side of a barn with a Hi Power, 1911, Sig, Lady Smith etc. Then she shot my HR Sporter .22LR. I then got an idea. I borrowed a friends J-Frame Smith and VOILA! She was consistently hitting a 6" ring at 10 meters.

To 1000 Meter's point the old wheel gun's grip fit "her" hand and shooting style better than the auto's.

I went out and bought here a Ruger SP 101 357 mag. She shoots 38 specials out of it and has gotten her hit zone down to 4" at 10 meters. As Kentactic writes, "So the moral of the story is dont get caught up in make and model and train train train."  [url=http://www.freesmileys.or

[1000meterstare]

Last time I shot my .45 at a hundred (2-3 weeks ago) my holdover was SICK!  14 - 16 inches above the top of the silhouette's head.  When I shot my buddy's K-frame .357 mag it was only 6 inches!  Hahahaha. [url=http://www.freesmileys.or

[1000meterstare]

I disagree with a few posts here, you can't MAKE something ergonomic if it naturally isn't.  You CAN overcome the ergonomic challenges via other means and lots of practice.  I agree with the training part, ammo is a sizeable portion of my budget.

[Kentactic]

Last time I shot my .45 at a hundred (2-3 weeks ago) my holdover was SICK!  14 - 16 inches above the top of the silhouette's head.  When I shot my buddy's K-frame .357 mag it was only 6 inches!  Hahahaha.

Id recommend raising the front sight post within the sight picture rather then hold above the target with a normal sight picture. This way your not guessing where the target is somewhere down there hidden behind the pistol. Inches of holdeover is very hard to gauge when the intended target is somewhere behind the gun. Its a lot easier to guess sight picture then holdover, and once youve established the correct sight picture or raise of the front post you can repeat it on demand and still hold where you want to hit. I drew up this little thing on paintbrush to help explain.



As you can see the modified sight picture still has POI at the correct spot right at the tip of the post.

Also using this same method can correct pistols that require a 6 o'clock or 12 o' clock hold to make hits at close range. just raise or lower the post until it hits correctly.

[Kentactic]

I disagree with a few posts here, you can't MAKE something ergonomic if it naturally isn't.  You CAN overcome the ergonomic challenges via other means and lots of practice.  I agree with the training part, ammo is a sizeable portion of my budget.

Well i think the main point here is you listed pistols that are natural pointers as if thats a fact. All that is, is a list of natural off the shelf pointers for yourself. Any pistol can become a natural pointer and any pistol potentially is a natural pointer off the shelf for a given shooter. Everyones different. A natural pointer in your hands might be way off in anothers hands.

[Grudgie]

Yep. It's all about musscle memory. A firearm is a relatively new invention so there is nothing 'natrual' about holding a handgun. Like people said before, it all comes down to musscle memory.

And go on 1911forums.com and tell them that the 1911 isn't a 'natrual pointer' and you will probably get banned for inflamatory comments lol.

[Kentactic]

Let me add one more thing since were on the topic of first shots and point shooting. Dont forget that hits on the bad guy arent as important as no hits on yourself. Id rather miss the bad guy and not be hit then be hit and hit the bad guy. Dont get caught up in "I have to hit him first" .. Aslong as you havent been hit your winning the fight. And accurate shots are nice but slow misses are worse then fast misses too.

[Outonowhere]

My Glock is a natural pointer for myself.  YMMV.