14th Amendment - Default is not Possible

[thatGirl]

This is the part that really chaps me.  By folks not doing their fucking jobs, we get to pay out billions of dollars for this shit, with no gain.  If this were a company, all those fuckheads on both sides would be jobless and potentially getting the Armani pants sued off of them.  I'm not even going to go into my rant about the costs in terms of scientific research lost due to research sites/facilities being shutdown across the country...

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/costs-government-shutdown-104753701--abc-news-politics.html


 

[Currahee]

Sledge, don't get me wrong, it is far from ideal, but that is the state of government, there is no simple way to fix it. Raising corporate taxes, legalizing drugs like marijuana/hemp to get tax dollars from that, etc........ there are many strategies that We The People can do to start to get out of this mess.

Absolute BS, this line of thought is what has us in the mess we are in.  The mess we are in leads to hyper inflation absurd taxes and eventual collapse.

To cut the debt we have to fucking raise taxes! Christ what a bunch of libtard bullshit.  I can't believe I'm on the same forum as you.

How about we do what a working American family would have to do and cut back expenditures.

[rah45]

Sledge, don't get me wrong, it is far from ideal, but that is the state of government, there is no simple way to fix it. Raising corporate taxes, legalizing drugs like marijuana/hemp to get tax dollars from that, etc........ there are many strategies that We The People can do to start to get out of this mess.

Absolute BS, this line of thought is what has us in the mess we are in.  The mess we are in leads to hyper inflation absurd taxes and eventual collapse.

To cut the debt we have to fucking raise taxes! Christ what a bunch of libtard bullshit.  I can't believe I'm on the same forum as you.

How about we do what a working American family would have to do and cut back expenditures.

I agree with Currahee. The only way out is to dig ourselves out, painfully. If you increase taxes, you're only further strangling those who are already struggling with a ridiculous tax burden. I think the Founders would balk at the current tax rate, much less remotely consider increasing it. Pull the government out of issues it has no business controlling, and you will solve our biggest spending problems.

[crudos]

Sledge, don't get me wrong, it is far from ideal, but that is the state of government, there is no simple way to fix it. Raising corporate taxes, legalizing drugs like marijuana/hemp to get tax dollars from that, etc........ there are many strategies that We The People can do to start to get out of this mess.

Absolute BS, this line of thought is what has us in the mess we are in.  The mess we are in leads to hyper inflation absurd taxes and eventual collapse.

To cut the debt we have to fucking raise taxes! Christ what a bunch of libtard bullshit.  I can't believe I'm on the same forum as you.

How about we do what a working American family would have to do and cut back expenditures.

lol, I love you too Curahee. 

The government is nothing like the everyday working family. I've never meet a family even remotely that operates like the government. Cut expenditures is a great talking point, but means nothing in terms of the government and how it actually works. Problem is one side wants to cut this, the other side disagrees and wants to cut something else, and the American people are left to suck the fumes. I wish it was as simplistic, but reality shows it just isn't.

[Currahee]

Sledge, don't get me wrong, it is far from ideal, but that is the state of government, there is no simple way to fix it. Raising corporate taxes, legalizing drugs like marijuana/hemp to get tax dollars from that, etc........ there are many strategies that We The People can do to start to get out of this mess.

Absolute BS, this line of thought is what has us in the mess we are in.  The mess we are in leads to hyper inflation absurd taxes and eventual collapse.

To cut the debt we have to fucking raise taxes! Christ what a bunch of libtard bullshit.  I can't believe I'm on the same forum as you.

How about we do what a working American family would have to do and cut back expenditures.

lol, I love you too Curahee. 

The government is nothing like the everyday working family. I've never meet a family even remotely that operates like the government. Cut expenditures is a great talking point, but means nothing in terms of the government and how it actually works. Problem is one side wants to cut this, the other side disagrees and wants to cut something else, and the American people are left to suck the fumes. I wish it was as simplistic, but reality shows it just isn't.

Your damn right you've never seen a family operate like that- because they would be bankrupt.  A few businesses operate like that during their first couple of years but, if they don't start turning a profit, they go bankrupt and the bank auctions off all their shit.

You act all "OMG it's to complex you can't understand" when it is really you who doesn't understand.  It's this simple-

expenditures - income = deficit OR Income ? expenditures = surplus

you can't operate with a deficit for very long, end of story

And we can most certainly cut expenditures; the federal government is the largest bloated wasteful redundant organization to have ever existed.  Half of every dollar taken in is wasted in redundancy corruption can graft. 

And your plan is to raise corporate taxes (great lets drive more jobs offshore) and legalize pot so we can tax it (you need to stop smoking it so much)

NOTE: I am fore the legalization of marajuauana because I don't recognize the government?s power to say what we can or can not smoke.  But taxing it (or anything) above whatever everything else is taxed is nothing but government sponsored bullying.

[sledge]

I agree with everything that Currahee has written so far.  Except the parts where he's giving Cudos a hard time.  I think Crudos sees the problem, he has just bought into an answer to it that won't work because it's 50% of what got us here.

To me, it really doesn't make a lot of sense to argue the Dem or Rep side of the fix.  The fix won't arrive in time.  We've sent so many good paying jobs elsewhere and we can't raise taxes enough at this point to pay for what they've already spent.  Much less what they are going to continue to spend.

We can talk about what would fix the problem and possibly save the country, but why?  Nothing we talk about has a chance in hell of happening.  So where does that put us?  What do we have to look forward to?

Most likely a financial collapse, but definitely harder financial times.  With forced government controls in all aspects of life and a loss of personal freedoms.  That's the picture that we face.

The forced government controls will no doubt be the result of rebellions from citizens who have lost their government supplied goodies.  Or possibly from states seeking to opt out of the union.  But make no mistake, forced control is coming.  All of the cameras and digital monitoring of our thoughts, words, and actions make that point obvious.

[crudos]

Your damn right you've never seen a family operate like that- because they would be bankrupt.  A few businesses operate like that during their first couple of years but, if they don't start turning a profit, they go bankrupt and the bank auctions off all their shit.

You act all "OMG it's to complex you can't understand" when it is really you who doesn't understand.  It's this simple-

expenditures - income = deficit OR Income ? expenditures = surplus

you can't operate with a deficit for very long, end of story

And we can most certainly cut expenditures; the federal government is the largest bloated wasteful redundant organization to have ever existed.  Half of every dollar taken in is wasted in redundancy corruption can graft. 

And your plan is to raise corporate taxes (great lets drive more jobs offshore) and legalize pot so we can tax it (you need to stop smoking it so much)

NOTE: I am fore the legalization of marajuauana because I don't recognize the government?s power to say what we can or can not smoke.  But taxing it (or anything) above whatever everything else is taxed is nothing but government sponsored bullying.

If you've never seen a family operate like the government, then how would the family budget analogy help the nation? It sounds great as a slogan, but ain't never going to happen. So instead of tilting at giant windmills, lets try some reality-based solutions? Just a thought.

I don't smoke pot, though after reading your post, I might need some after all. 

edit: Here's what a real economist says, thought this might add some reality into the discussion....

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/02/opinion/krugman-nobody-understands-debt.html?_r=3&

[Currahee]

I agree with everything that Currahee has written so far.  Except the parts where he's giving Cudos a hard time.  I think Crudos sees the problem, he has just bought into an answer to it that won't work because it's 50% of what got us here.

To me, it really doesn't make a lot of sense to argue the Dem or Rep side of the fix.  The fix won't arrive in time.  We've sent so many good paying jobs elsewhere and we can't raise taxes enough at this point to pay for what they've already spent.  Much less what they are going to continue to spend.

We can talk about what would fix the problem and possibly save the country, but why?  Nothing we talk about has a chance in hell of happening.  So where does that put us?  What do we have to look forward to?

Most likely a financial collapse, but definitely harder financial times.  With forced government controls in all aspects of life and a loss of personal freedoms.  That's the picture that we face.

The forced government controls will no doubt be the result of rebellions from citizens who have lost their government supplied goodies.  Or possibly from states seeking to opt out of the union.  But make no mistake, forced control is coming.  All of the cameras and digital monitoring of our thoughts, words, and actions make that point obvious.

I'm not giving anyone a hard time- unless pointing out reality is giving a hard time.

That being said you're right about the inevitable colapse- more government control etc.  I HOPE your right about rebelion but I doubt it.  I think most people will just except whatever the government does as "reality-based solutions" as long as the TV comes on and they have an illusion of a democratic process.

[JohnyMac]

Senator Mitch McConnell sold out for a $2B damn in Kentucky. That's how government is different than a family. Become Santa Claus and give things out to constituents to be re-elected. Or my favorite...Senators, Representatives, and the folks that work for them will have 72% of their medical insurance will be paid for by you. 

Give me one week with the Federal budget and I will have it down to 10% of the GDP in five years. I will start with the Obama-Phone.

[crudos]

Or my favorite...Senators, Representatives, and the folks that work for them will have 72% of their medical insurance will be paid for by you. 

The gubment is just like any large employer that offers insurance to it's employees, so what is the problem exactly? Should federal employees not be able to be part of a health insurance program?

[JohnyMac]

They are Crudos, Obama Care which they railroaded in.

Should federal employees not be able to be part of a health insurance program?

I don't think Crudos, we will ever see eye to eye on Obama Care - That's cool. I am just frustrated that the government can force you to buy something. AND they put the IRS in charge of it. 

[Kentactic]

They are Crudos, Obama Care which they railroaded in.

Should federal employees not be able to be part of a health insurance program?

I don't think Crudos, we will ever see eye to eye on Obama Care - That's cool. I am just frustrated that the government can force you to buy something. AND they put the IRS in charge of it. 

I hope I'm not incorrectly conveying what Crudos means but I think he is saying that a gubberment employee deserves healthcare provided by his employer as much as anyone working in the private sector. It has nothing to do with the ACA directly. I agree in the sense that I use to work a gubberment job where healthcare was essentially part of my pay. My hourly wage alone wasnt acceptable. The benefits eased the pain. I would have taken the money if I could instead of healthcare but the fact that the city paid my healthcare made it less of a total raping to work there. Even though the one time I needed it my insurance didn't cover my perscription so I bassically said fuck it and went without. That perscription was $800 a month for me to fill....
Trust me not all gubberment workers have it great...and my health coverage was considered a sweet deal...