Something to know- mpw with more armor shooting, including ceramic

[Currahee]

AR500 vs 5.56x45 XM193

[JohnyMac]

Interesting Currahee. Another great video! 

I wonder what the results would be if you included a kevlar IIIa behind the AR500 plate? My ceramic plates are rated IV up to and including 30/06 if I use the kevlar IIIa pad behind the plate and 556 and 7.62x39 if no pad is used.
 

[Kentactic]

Currahee,  wouldn't M855(penetrating green tip) be even better? M193 is simply jacketed lead right? This begs the question... wtf can this plate reliably stop in any extreme that is fired from an AR?

Btw I just ordered one of these plates... im not regretting it because its all I can afford. Its that or hit home depot tile section.

[JohnyMac]

Remember Ken, this was at 7 yards not 25-100 yards. Also, I am pretty sure if you add a soft IIIa plate (Kevlar) behind it this would help to take up shock to your torso and improve the dynamics of the AR500 plate.

I am glade that you bought one  You will need it in Northern TX, CT or NY. 

[Kentactic]

Ya I get that its an extreme for this round. I just dont like to see holes in my armor caused by standard ammo. Lol

[Currahee]

I need to just leave this on my clipboard

AR500 is only rated Level III. This test, is well outside of what it is supposed to do. But if I'm gonna have something I want to know what it CAN do. This is not really an issue with it, just goes to show you that there is no such thing as bulletproof. At least not that you can carry.

It will still stop a lot of bullets, XM193 is a fast round, and based on the fact that it stopped it at 7 out of an SBR I think it will stop it at 25 out of a 16". If I had a guess it will stop anything going under around 3000fps, but that needs testing. 

If you're inside of 25 you will know someone is wearing plates and should be able to shoot 'em in the head or pelvis just as fast.  You should assume that that goes both ways as well.

[Currahee]

Currahee,  wouldn't M855(penetrating green tip) be even better? M193 is simply jacketed lead right? This begs the question... wtf can this plate reliably stop in any extreme that is fired from an AR?

Btw I just ordered one of these plates... im not regretting it because its all I can afford. Its that or hit home depot tile section.

I've seen vids of it stopping what people said was M855.  Slightly longer ranges than this though.

A year or two ago, before I really started thinking about this stuff I would have argued exactly the same point.

I still have the AR500 in my carrier, you just need understand what it can do... no armor makes you invulnerable.

[Kentactic]

Currahee,  wouldn't M855(penetrating green tip) be even better? M193 is simply jacketed lead right? This begs the question... wtf can this plate reliably stop in any extreme that is fired from an AR?

Btw I just ordered one of these plates... im not regretting it because its all I can afford. Its that or hit home depot tile section.

I've seen vids of it stopping what people said was M855.  Slightly longer ranges than this though.

A year or two ago, before I really started thinking about this stuff I would have argued exactly the same point.

I still have the AR500 in my carrier, you just need understand what it can do... no armor makes you invulnerable.

I haven't seen it tested. You'd think a steel penetrating tip bullet would be better at penetrating. If XM193 is among the best 5.56 then im glad. Just seems like you could max load any 55gr load and do the same thing that XM193 can do it.

[Grudgie]

Currahee,  wouldn't M855(penetrating green tip) be even better? M193 is simply jacketed lead right? This begs the question... wtf can this plate reliably stop in any extreme that is fired from an AR?

Btw I just ordered one of these plates... im not regretting it because its all I can afford. Its that or hit home depot tile section.

I read somewhere on AR15.com (maby the ammo oracle don't remember where) that xm193 actually penetrates better than an xm855 out to a certain distance, and then the xm855 will retain it's penetration longer at distances past that. The reasoning being during the cold war the American military wanted to be able to shoot through a Russian helmet at long range or something stupid like that.

The xm193 also fragments out to longer distances than xm855 making it the better all around bullet.

[crudos]

Thanks for the vid Currahee, good information. 

[Currahee]

Currahee,  wouldn't M855(penetrating green tip) be even better? M193 is simply jacketed lead right? This begs the question... wtf can this plate reliably stop in any extreme that is fired from an AR?

Btw I just ordered one of these plates... im not regretting it because its all I can afford. Its that or hit home depot tile section.

I read somewhere on AR15.com (maby the ammo oracle don't remember where) that xm193 actually penetrates better than an xm855 out to a certain distance, and then the xm855 will retain it's penetration longer at distances past that. The reasoning being during the cold war the American military wanted to be able to shoot through a Russian helmet at long range or something stupid like that.

The xm193 also fragments out to longer distances than xm855 making it the better all around bullet.

Agree, except with the thinking that wanting to shoot through Russian helmets is stupid.  When SS109/M855 was adopted it was a good choice, with sound reasoning.  BUT not long after we started having to shoot little skinny people in third world shit holes. We should have immediately went back to M193, of course the Army simply starts looking for a NEW round.

[Currahee]

AR500 vs M193 and M855

More AR500 Shooting

Ceramic Level 4 Plate against M193 and M855

Ceramic Plate vs 5.56 M193 and M855

[Kentactic]

So level III NIJ is rated for 2800 fps(according to my conversation with AR500 Armor) What is Level IV good for? Looks like its good for atleast 3200fps.

[gapatriot]

Ar500 will not stop a green tip at short distance, I didn't watch the vid or read all the comments but it won't stop them out of a 16 barrel. But if I'm taking a round at short range in the plate in going to die from internal trauma. Internal bleeding or external what do you want? Me I would rather have a hole in me it makes it easier to fix.

[Kentactic]

You will not sustain internal bleeding from a level III rifle hit on armor at close range. Im no ballistic expert but I would imagine I could punch you in the chest and it would be far more energy transferring then a 5.56 bullet would due to the mass and momentum of a punch. I would imagine a rifle hit on a plate you are wearing would be more of a sting than a collision caused by extreme vibration of the plate.

[Grudgie]

I imagine it would feel like swinging a hammer as hard as you can to the bare chest, and then doubling it. Probably not going to penetrate the skin, but I'm not sure it would kill either. I'll take my chances with the plate.

Awsome videos Currahee. Good intel.

[Currahee]

Hard plate armor is going to disperse the energy from a rifle shot over the entire area of the plate, not bad at all.  People that get hit in a plate in the heat of battle usually say they barely noticed it.  Soft armor, which slows down the projectile and prevents penetration is a different story.

Kentatic's comparison of a fist is not far off- except it would be spread over 120 in^2 instead of 8 in^2.  That's a WAG understanding the variables at play.  Take about an hour's math to back it up.  Unfortunately I'm about to drive to the inlaw's.

[thatGuy]

Currahee is right on the money, soft armor catches the round and fucks you up for it. Hard armor spreads that load like guava jelly... all over your chest...

I wanted to say thank to Currahee for making this fantastic information available to our little community.

It will make you change your tactics if you know your armor doesn't rate up close!

[brat]

Thanks for the videos and all the feedback. That's what's so cool about this forum, the wealth of information from those who've been there, done that and the willingness to share that info.

As I don't have plate armor, I've learned a lot. Hell, I'm just now learning the difference in all the ammo that was mentioned. Anyway, I'm leaning to the ar500 simply because of price and thinking that anything is better than skin.

I've seen some level III ar500 that are uncoated. It seems that they use something similar to what they put on your truck bed. Any thought's on coating them DIY vs coming from the factory already coated ? I've read about the advantages of the coating, but don't know if it's really all that, except that it'll keep it from rusting. I've seen bullets ride up soft armor and kill, so I don't know about just how well LineX or Duraliner will contain a high speed frag. But, I'm sure someone will educate me shortly.  That's why I asked.

Also, I didn't mean to highjack a thread. If this needs moved, please do so. 

[Kentactic]

Brat, from what ive seen on a direct 90° hit the line X coating can catch 100% of fragmentation. You can order plates bare and try to mimic the coating but you'll never know if you got it right. Its too cheap not to buy them coated.

[thatGuy]

What's it do if you get hit at 30 degrees??

I suspect it throws a fist full of razor sharp frag into your face, armpits or knowing my luck directly into the dick.

XSAPI plates are always getting "lost" and can be "found" cheap... Really cheap, provided you don't ask any questions. 

[Kentactic]

What's it do if you get hit at 30 degrees??

Good question, I dont know. I was just explaining how the coating definitely helps in some cases.

 Anyone know of tests that have been done on extreme or at least less then perfect angles?

[Kentactic]

XSAPI plates are always getting "lost" and can be "found" cheap... Really cheap, provided you don't ask any questions.

Like, "Have you ever dropped or mistreated these plates?"

[thatGuy]

Yeah, I wouldn't buy them if they felt like a pillowcase full of broke glass... That saying you're a healthy dude, eyeball them, flex them and finger them all over. You can feel the bad breaks.

[Currahee]

Brat, from what ive seen on a direct 90° hit the line X coating can catch 100% of fragmentation. You can order plates bare and try to mimic the coating but you'll never know if you got it right. Its too cheap not to buy them coated.

This, if you're going with steel, get the coated.