Unchained Preppers
General Category => Gear Review => Topic started by: JohnyMac on September 16, 2013, 08:47:50 AM
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I am starting to research NVG's. To help me get started who would like to share their opinions on...
Monocular or Bi-ocular?
Gen I,II, OR III?
Brands - Good, Better & Best?
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Night Time Prepping, by Unchained Preppers (http://unchainedpreppers.com/forum/general-discussion/night-time-prepping/msg38165/#msg38165)
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Thx TG I found this topic and thread line earlier today when I did a search. I was hoping for more of a 'Baofeng' ham radio opinion piece on NVG's; however a good start to the discussion.
I also found a topic where Technique was selling a pair or two awhile back. Again I am six months or so away from my purchase so just gather what info I can. ;)
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I threw up the link because I'd posted a lot of good info about the different types of NVD/NODs. Thought it would make a good primer on the topic.
Now that you're primed, check out Optics Planet. They have all manner of NVD/NODs, great technical info and piles of good reviews on product.
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Great idea TG! :thumbsUp:
I have already purchased some stuff from them and their prices were reasonable. :)
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FWIW?you lose all depth perception with monos. Back when we had the AN/PVS 7Bs, I would keep mine tucked away until we were sitting still at a patrol base, in an OP, or on an ambush site. Also, keep in mind that once you use them, it's going to be a good 30 minutes or more before you can see anything without them. (Your eyes need to readjust.) It will take even longer is you smoke, dip, or drink caffeine.
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Thx Jeremy.
I don't smoke or dip but a will have a cup or 2 of coffee in the AM. :)
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Added to the original thread. If money is no object... a PVS14 from TNVC.com is what I would get. My friend has one I've played with and it's the bomb.
TNVC.com is known for taking care of their customers also. Might be $50.00 more, but worth it.
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Thx DVC.
Well it looks like the PVS-14's are monocular. The benefits of a Monocular is one eye is light blind when turned off and the other isn't - Got it!
I ran across these Night Owl Tactical Goggles G-1 NOBG1 at Optics Planet. I need to look at the benefits of Gen 1 vs. Gen 3. I will report back.
On a different point many years ago (Mid '90's) when I was working for West Marine, I was visiting the home office and shooting the bull with a few Category Managers (Buyers). They just got in Russian Night Vision goggles to check out. They were binocular and big and heavy. We all ran into a office with no windows to try 'em out which we did. Well they SUCKED!
Although they did a good job illuminating all of us in the room, the images were not in focus. When you walked around they made you feel dizzy. And if I remember the battery life was very short.
Well once we left the office we named them the "Shluck-na-cofts!" Through them back into the box they came in and decided they would not be part of WM's inventory. :lmfao:
Well any way...My education continues. ;)
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There is no benefit of GEN1 over GEN3 except cost, anything not GEN3 is pretty much a toy except for very specific purposes...
I would ditto DVC's remark that the best way to go is a PVS14 monocular from TNVC.
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Kinda harsh Currahee. I know I can see a lot more with Gen1 than the naked eye and that is a multiplier in my book. For $500 (SPARK) it's worth more to me then another rifle or $500 worth of food if I've already got 3 months worth.
The cost/value of the PVS14 is not worth it over the SPARK to me as a prepper though and will stay at the bottom of my wish list until I'm able to grow my own food and live off grid.
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Well, I'll admit to being a harsh guy, but it comes from a couple of recent weekends running around in the woods with PVS14s vs some of the $200 stuff. (And I own what was one of the better $200 units)
I have never seen the SPARK but just looked it up. I would like to hear more but my first question is, how good is the performance WITHOUT the illuminator on. Needing the illuminator is a deal breaker IMO.
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I've done a few vids on the SPARK but the camera does not capture the quality of it without an IR.
It is 3X better than a $200 model I tried initially. My only other comparison is the PVS14 from TNVC so that's really not fair at all.
I'm going to borrow the PVS again and do some real world testing but likely will not include video as its not representative enough.
Armasight calls it Gen1+ and that is a fair label IMO. It's about 3/4 of the way if I had to guess based on vids of gen2 online.
It's the only poorman option worth the money out there IMO.
I'll be buying thermal before a PVS14 though.
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I bought my pvs14 from TNVC, along with an IS laser and such. I have a panteao account, and I can stream the NVG IR skill builder video sometime for everyone.
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Well, I'll admit to being a harsh guy, but it comes from a couple of recent weekends running around in the woods with PVS14s vs some of the $200 stuff. (And I own what was one of the better $200 units)
I have never seen the SPARK but just looked it up. I would like to hear more but my first question is, how good is the performance WITHOUT the illuminator on. Needing the illuminator is a deal breaker IMO.
Now that you own one, what are your answers? :)
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I have held the SPARK up against a couple of different commercial GEN1 units and it blows them away.
I have compared it to a good PVS14 (all PVS14s are not equal) and would say that - in conditions that favor the PVS 14 (overcast or no moon) the SPARK does about 20% of what a PVS does. In conditions that favor the SPARK (crescent moon, or neighborhood with some lights) the SPARK is about 30-40% of what a PVS does. This is WITHOUT an IR illuminator.
I have two different illuminators, the one on the unit itself which helps inside a house, and one that will allow me to see 100 yards in close to absolute darkness (Cree drop in unit) Of course we know that using the illuminator surrenders your advantage if the bad guys have NODs too.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/currahee/NODKit_zps68d8aa34.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/currahee/OPaF_zps15de44ca.jpg)
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Well described. I would agree with the comparison completely and I have the Cree 6pm drop in also.
Nice to hear someone else review it with proper expectation of a gen1 unit.
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Hey Currahee?
What helmet are you rocking?
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Protec
Eventually I will do a video on the whole rig
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Protec?
Funny story: I was swapping emails with Max Velocity and he was adamant that everyone should wear a helmet for a list of reasons:
> Fixing a monocular NVG,
> Prevention of concussion from during a CQB or running through the woods,
> Etc.
He went on to write that if you can't afford a kevlar helmet buy a Protec helmet. His feeling's was that it will do all a kevar helmet would do but stop a bullet.
:thumbsUp:
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A while back I remember going on a search to find the helmets sported by the Delta-Force guys in the movie "Black Hawk Down"... come to find out they were Protec brand helmets. I posted about it somewhere on this forum a long time ago.
EDIT: Found it >>> http://unchainedpreppers.com/forum/gear-review/bw-brain-bucket/msg28954/#msg28954 (http://unchainedpreppers.com/forum/gear-review/bw-brain-bucket/msg28954/#msg28954)
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There you go :thumbsUp:
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Protec makes skateboard helmets and did in fact make the first run of military "bump" helmets ala Delta Force in BHD.
This is specifically the military Protech, the suspension system is far diferent, more secure, from the skateboard helmets. It has to be if you want that extra weight on the front of your helmet. This helmet costs $60-70 where the skateboards helmets are $40 or so.
The real "cool guy" helmets now are made by Opscore and run around $400.
Mounting NVGs to the helmet is another big expense.
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I would ditto DVC's remark that the best way to go is a PVS14 monocular from TNVC.
I have been fortunate to get some time in with the PVS14, they are an outstanding product. I have also had the opportunity to use some thermal imaging equipment and found it to be very impressive,
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good overview of helmets (keep in mind, his OpsCore is a knock off the real one is around $300)
Bump Helmet Overview: Emerson OpsCore, Protec Alpha Half Shell, Airsoft (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBn-s7XwpMY#ws)
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A while back I remember going on a search to find the helmets sported by the Delta-Force guys in the movie "Black Hawk Down"... come to find out they were Protec brand helmets. I posted about it somewhere on this forum a long time ago.
EDIT: Found it >>> [url]http://unchainedpreppers.com/forum/gear-review/bw-brain-bucket/msg28954/#msg28954[/url] ([url]http://unchainedpreppers.com/forum/gear-review/bw-brain-bucket/msg28954/#msg28954[/url])
Here is a look at the helmet Marcus Luttrell was rockin' during "Operation Red Wings". You'll hear Marcus mention that this helmet was previously worn by his brother, who was also a Navy Seal, during his tour. The chin strap system looks like a basic one you'd find on any generic skateboard helmet. I wonder how it handled NVGs?
GLENN BECK, Marcus Luttrells SEAL Uniform From Deadly Afghanistan Ambush (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3ZkM_U64nk#)
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That is the old protec, and I bet it would suck to wear with NODs on the front. I'm really suprised they didn't have MICH or ACH helmets (which is what is in the freeze frame cover of that vid, with a much more modern suspention system.)
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Been playing with my PT Bravo, added ACH pads and since it was all disassembled put a new cover on it. I ended up using pads from two kits plus the original. Also removed most of the velcro, just enough for an IR flash now. Much more comfortable and secure.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/currahee/DSC07214_zps0c8f12b6.jpg)
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What color did your PT Bravo start out as?
What NVG are you sporting there?
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What color did your PT Bravo start out as?
What NVG are you sporting there?
It is tan, the color seen around the edges. It doesn't take paint very well, I was gonna repaint but decided I would try making a cover. I like the looks of it, we'll see how long it lasts.
The monocular is an Armasight SPARK (gen 1+) that I hope to replace this summer.
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Currahee, ya' have to know that this follow-up question was coming. ;) What NVG are you looking at to replace your Spark?
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Currahee, ya' have to know that this follow-up question was coming. ;) What NVG are you looking at to replace your Spark?
Depends on how much money I can raise. At a minimum the Armasight Sirius. Not that I am unhappy with the SPARK. I bought it knowing its limitations and intend to retain it as a spare. I can get hits under anything but zero light at 20M and have hit to 50M with illumination.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/currahee/DSC07184_zps5b5fcdd9.jpg)
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Currahee
I just picked up recently a L3 TNVC/PVS14 Gen3. It was definitely pricier than I originally wanted to spend but well worth it. I used it at a Low/No Light course out in Wyoming that required a ton of movement and addressing targets at varied distances from 2-200yds. I did not need to use any illumination for the entire NVG portion of the course.
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Currahee
I just picked up recently a L3 TNVC/PVS14 Gen3. It was definitely pricier than I originally wanted to spend but well worth it. I used it at a Low/No Light course out in Wyoming that required a ton of movement and addressing targets at varied distances from 2-200yds. I did not need to use any illumination for the entire NVG portion of the course.
What are you running for a laser, or is it weapon mounted?
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I had been using a DBAL-I2 weapon mounted. I have recently gotten my hands on a Wilcox Raptar Lite that is an IR/Visible laser as well as an IR Illuminator and has a 120lumen Surefire built in. I ended up not using the IR illuminator at all during my class. I havnt used the white light on it enough to be sure I am willing to remove my Scout light, but that is the end plan to get some of the weight off the end of the gun. I was able to get a demo unit at a smoking price otherwise I probably would have stuck with my DBAL.
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I'm running a Uni IR right now, DBAL is my current dream I'm saving for. If you want to get rid of it around Christmas let me know.
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Hey, anybody interested in taking Max's class in WV? Check out Night Optical Device Firing (http://www.maxvelocitytactical.com/night-optical-device-firing-nodf/).
Currahee it's about the same distance from GA. as it is from RI for CJS and I. It would be good to have a UunchainedPreppers contingent there. ;)
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Johnny
What dates are you looking at? I have a ton of stuff going on but if I can fit it in I would love to. I am taking a Long range class in Wyoming at the end of this month (July), in Maine at the end of August for Vehicle Elements, and will be in Florida for the second week in Dec for Team Building.
Chris
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Fall. The weather will be cooler in WV then.
I am home and will give you a call. ;)
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After using for 6 mos I have gotten rid of my Wilcox Raptar and have gone back to using my Dbal I2. The Raptar was simply too damn big. It did include the Surefire light along with IR laser but the unit itself was like having a garage on the front of the gun. It was terrible on sight picture and pretty much unusable with a Variable Optic. If mounted on the right side of the gun it did not have enough adjustment in the IR laser to be able to zero properly. The Dbal and Surefire 952V though not light work out to about the same weight and give the ability to use as a white light or an IR illuminator.
Some things you feel bad about seeing go....not the Raptar. I expect to have a new ATIPAL-C/PEQ-15 (http://www.usnightvision.com/anpeq-15atpial.aspx) shortly following shot. I have shot .mil PEQ-15s and expect this to be basically identical. If that is the case it will replace the Dbal permanently.
Edit: Added internet site for sight -JMc