Thoughts on Infrared Lasser Sights

[JohnyMac]

W3oof didn't come home the other night in her usual 5 minutes or so after letting her out before we head to bed. Well I went out looking for her with my night vision and AR15.

One thing I noticed while "under the green" the EoTech holographic sight was greatly diminished. So I started looking at buying a Infrared Laser Sight for night use with the NGV's. I ran across
this unit.

I was wondering if one of the forum members had experience in these units and would take the time to educate the group.

Oh, I found W3oof across the road at the neighbors farm. She was digging in the snow near where he butchers critters. Obviously looking for a snack before bed.

[CJS06]

Johny

The OTAL-C is a good option for use with your NODS.  It is an IR Laser only and is a decent unit for the price.  The next step up would be a DBAL-I2 which has a couple of versions. The least expensive ($700ish) has a Visible and IR Laser up to the version ($1k ish) that has an IR Laser and an Illuminator.  For a civilian legal set up these are generally the most cost effective. Next is the DBAL-A3 ($1400ish) that has a longer range illuminator or the ATIPAL-C ($1200ish) a civilian version of the PEQ-15. You can also acquire LE/Mil variants of te PEQ-15 for between $2k-$2500. These are much stronger IR Lasers and Illuminators that work at longer ranges. I can not comment on the legality of these as there are as many illegal units that "fell off a truck" as there are legal to own ones that have made their way to the market.

The OTAL takes up very little space on your rifle and it is a good idea to get yourself an illuminator that works with it as well. There are a few available across a wide price range. I use Surefire M300v lights that have a switchable (white /IR) head. They are not cheap, but you get what you pay for. If you decide you want a light let me know I have a line on a number of Surefire M952V lights for a really good price. Using the OTAL you can end up with a Laser and Illum for less than the price of purchasing a one piece like the DBAL or ATIPAL-C. 

I have a DBAL-I2 on one rifle and a full power PEQ15 (yes a legal one) on another rifle. I still have an illuminator on these rifle as it is much more effective when patrolling.

I hope this is somewhat helpful.

Chris
 

[Jackalope]

I have a couple of IR lasers, but I went the cheap route.  One of them is G Sight Gladiator laser illuminator, made in China and it more or less resembles a Maglight construction wise. It is waterproof, as I've tested it in rain showers.  It has windage and elevation adjustments.  It's good out to maybe 300 yards, it'll go farther than that, but the beam starts widening.  There's no question that an IR illuminator is a game changer, If you're going up against opponents without night vision.  However, if your opponent has night vision and there's any precipitation, then the laser acts like a pointer right to you.  It is pretty neat to look at the beam in any precip, whether it's drizzle, rain, snow or fog.  Anyways, that's a cheap alternative (around $100) if you just want to try out an IR illuminator.

[Erick]

The EOtechs 512s (if thats the model u have) are not really intended for night vision.
Its possible to look thru sights like that w/ nightvision, say w/ an EOtech 552 otr a Aimpoint PRO who have setting for this.
But thats not really how night fighting is done.

The only way this is properly done is with an IR pointer as others have already posted.
Most affordable professional grade pointer is the OTAL.

Available from JRH:
http://www.jrhenterprises.com/OTAL-C-Infrared-only-laser-OTAL-CIR9056.htm

[JohnyMac]

All good stuff gents.

I wear my NODS on my left eye which free's up my right eye for the EoTech sight. I agree with you Erick, the EoTech is not the best during the night hence the interest in the IR laser to be used with the NODS.

Thanks for all of your great input. 

[Erick]

PS: Just noticed that u linked to the exact unit I did.

Darn my too fast reading!

Yes I have experience with that unit.
Its basically half a DBAL.
And its the half you want/need.

Its a professional unit and equips one of my 2 "Nightfighters"

[lewisp]

Jumping in a little late here, but I want to agree with all the above.
If you have some quality NVGs and a good rifle already, you should have a good aiming laser as well.
If you can afford one with an illuminator as well, even better. I don't see it as a cheap-out option to use a seperate light with IR capability as the illuminator, it will just take up a little more room on the gun.
  In the end, it's about true capability. Vet some good gear and actually go out and use it. Even with good illumination, seeing well enough to hit somebody past about 200 yards takes practice.
Remember to take into account the bore offset when you  zero the laser!

[JohnyMac]

Thx lewisp!

Well I am all set up now. I purchased the SureFire M952V and the OTAL-C. While sitting outside watching maple sap boil down, I cleaned my AR and installed the new toys.

Went out at about 2200 hrs and tried them out. All worked fine after I figured out that you have to take the lence cap off the OTAL-C - LOL. The directions that came with the unit are weak.

Now, I just need to sight the new toy in. Back to YT to figure that one out.

[lewisp]

Nice to hear you have a plan.
We used to have a laser specific zeroing target when I was still in. It had a center bulleye like normal, but around it's edge were different 'X's" corresponding to the correct zeroing point for an aiming laser of whatever type or whatever position the laser was mounted, top, side or bottom. We used to zero at 200 meters in the early days, but as time and conditions changed, it changed as well. The key is to maintain that critical bore offset. Depending on laser type of course, if the laser is on the top rail, the laser impact is roughly at 10 to 11 o'clock and a couple of inches outboard of the actual bore line . With the laser always "flying" dead straight and bullets rising and falling, you need to pick a median range of expected use, and accept that aiming lasers are not especially accurate compared to actual sights. Nobody is winning bullsey matches with lasers at night. Solid hits are more than just possible, but you have to accept some degradation of preferred accuracy and embrace true combat accuracy. Fast, multi-shot strings on target will get you the results you want. Remember, practice doesn't make perfect...perfect practice makes perfect. Keep us informed on the project if you can!

[JohnyMac]

Thx lewisp! I will. 

[CJS06]

Johny (and anyone else interested),

Telluric Group makes targets for zeroing your Laser.  Like  lewisp said you are looking for combat accuracy, not punching the same hole over and over again.

https://telluric.us/collections/training-tools/products/ir-laser-zero-targets-1

Chris

[JohnyMac]

  CJS! I will order 'em today.

On another note: After attending NCScouts RTO (Radio Telephone Operator) class I learned that being a gunslinger is only a small part of a safe patrol. COMMs back to the TOC (Tactical Operations Center) is a MUST!

If ya' haven't earned your Technicians License yet - Get 'er done and take this class.

[Erick]

Thx lewisp!

Well I am all set up now. I purchased the SureFire M952V and the OTAL-C. While sitting outside watching maple sap boil down, I cleaned my AR and installed the new toys.

Went out at about 2200 hrs and tried them out. All worked fine after I figured out that you have to take the lence cap off the OTAL-C - LOL. The directions that came with the unit are weak.

Now, I just need to sight the new toy in. Back to YT to figure that one out.

I can help you zero the IR laser if you take me up on the offer we discussed off forum.

[JohnyMac]

Ahhhh Erick.  I will look into. Thx