Author Topic: Generators When size might not matter  (Read 1637 times)

Offline JoJo

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Generators When size might not matter
« on: February 09, 2015, 12:13:20 PM »
 I have never owned a generator and I am not an electrician and hoping one of you can answer a few questions on emergency power.
 I have a two hundred amp service of which one circuit is 220v-20amp,well pump another is 220v-30amp hot water heater and one 220v-40amp septic pump. The rest are 110v-20amp. I e-mailed POWERLAND GENERATORS and got a response that said I need a 10,000 watt generator.  My septic pump only runs at night around midnight. I was thinking of having the septic pump, during an emergency operate of off a switch so I can turn it on and off at my discretion which would be at night when everything is off.  Because it is 40amp will I still need a 10,000 watt generator?
 This is the generator they say I will need.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Powerland-10-000-Watt-16-HP-Tri-Fuel-Powered-Electric-Start-Portable-Generator-PD3G10000E/203608220?N=5yc1vZbx8l
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Offline Nemo

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Re: Generators When size might not matter
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2015, 12:53:27 PM »
Be realistic.  Something like that is going to run through more fuel than a tractor trailer truck.  You run septic pump late at night.  I cannot believe that requires 220 at 40 amps.  Dig out your paperwork on it.  That is one heckuva large power demand.  I have a small welder that runs on 220/30 when putting out its hottest arc.  You water heater does that also.

They key factor you need to determine is your wattage use.  Max, at any given time, with you doing what you can do minimize it.  Determine watts by math, amps times volts.  So a 220 volt with 30 amps is 6600.  110 volts times 20 amps is 2200.

Your septic pump on your numbers is 8800 watts.  You could do your septic pump only when doing that.  Enough for that is sufficient for all else.  I am confident you could do all but that on 8800 if you were careful with turning off lights, limiting dryer use and all such.

I have a 6600 diesel genny that FiL bought because he wanted a diesel and to help out the sellers some.  They were in a real bind and he had a few extra pennies.  It does about a gallon of fuel over 6 hours.

I could realistically run my entire lifestyle (and have, full week) on a 800 watt 2cycle engine genny.  In my camper, running fridge and heating a bit of water on the propane stove.  The upside to that is I have a 1000 gallon propane tank here at the campground that gets refilled within a day if it gets below 500 gallons.  8)

Back 12 or so years ago got caught in a hurricane in Va.  Lost power for 3 days.  Ran everything, well water pump and all (gas stove and no water heater) on a 9 hour a gallon of gas in a 4400 watt genny.

If you had no choice, you could put up outhouse, heat water on fire for Saturday night bath and live comfortable on 1500 watts.

10K for something like that is about right.  Look here and search alot.  10KW Briggs and Stratton home genny for $2300.  The one you note is do-able but I would search and research on quality alot.

http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Briggs-&-Stratton-40375-Standby-Generator/p10344.html


or 10,800 watt Tri-Fuel genny for $3600.


http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Winco-HPS12000HE-Portable-Generator/p1187.html

Nemo

« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 01:12:10 PM by Nemo »
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Offline thatGuy

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Re: Generators When size might not matter
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2015, 01:03:10 PM »
 :thumbsup: Nemo nailed it!

Offline Kbop

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Re: Generators When size might not matter
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2015, 02:46:46 PM »
I agree with 'thatGuy' and 'Nemo'
one thing to consider - if your budget allows - a second breaker panel only used when the genset is running.  it makes the use and power balancing easier.  This can be especially important if you choose a smaller genset to save fuel or increase run time.  You set the panel the way you want it and when the power goes out and the transfer switch engages your 'backed-up' circuits are energized only.

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Re: Generators When size might not matter
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2015, 02:55:19 PM »
Good info Nemo.  :word: 

I'd start with one, or all, of these power calculators if you haven't already.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/buyers-guides_wattage-calculator

http://www.briggsandstratton.com/us/en/generators/portable-generators/portable-generators-101/how-much-power-do-i-need

http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/wattage-calculator

Then decide if you really "need" it all or whether there are things you can work around for a few days or so. Like ac, a back up window unit to just cool a couple of rooms in the hottest part of the day or can you run window fans ? If you heat with wood, no need to figure heater. Like Nemo said, you could heat water outside, use an outhouse, etc. etc...
Then go shopping.

From what I know, if you're gonna run that 40 amps, you'll have to get a big unit, most portables are 20a or 30a plug ins and a bunch of 110. The picture of the Powerland shows a 40 and a 30. The 30's are usually four bladed and twist lock and that 40 will be four bladed flat like a dryer/stove/welder. You'll have to have a big enough cord to carry the amperage as well.

On the Powerland portable, that 10k is peak/surge for the extra power needed when refrigerators, air conditioners, and pumps cycle on. It's specs says 8k continuous and most fuel consumption data is based off a partial load rating. 

Don't forget the cost for a transfer kit. They come in manual and automatic. You can save some coins going manual. Make sure it comes with a transfer cord, big enough, if your generator don't.  The last thing you'll want to do in storm is be running six or eight extension cords. Make sure they're sized for the load.

Make sure it comes with wheels and handles. Big portables are over 200-250 pounds without fuel and are hard to move thru a yard, especially wet mud or snow. If you have a tractor or lawn tractor, you can mount it on a 3 point carry all or a small converted yard trailer. Then you can use it around your property for other things if needed. Not knowing the layout of your house, if you wire your house/well/sump separate, you could be moving this thing around some.

If you don't wanna move it, you'll need the coins to shell out for a cord large enough for the load. The power cord will need to be 8 ga. copper to carry 40 amps 10 feet. With power cords you want the juice coming out the same as it comes in, so you have to figure loss. Generally, as a rule, for every foot that current flows through a cord, there is a voltage loss. So a 50 ft cord loses twice as much power as a 25 ft. cord. To push 40 amps 15-20 feet, you'll need to have 6 ga., 30 feet, 4 ga. and anything longer, 2 ga. This will be a cost to consider.

Lastly, running a big generator requires a bigger motor. Electric start is nice, but you need to keep a spare battery. You may be able to pull one off now, but what about when you get older or injured shoulder. The Powerland shows a battery and keyed start.

Like Nemo posted links to, if you're gonna run "everything", you need to consider a standby, not a portable, JMHO. Set that bad boy on a pad, set an lp tank and pray for rain.

 :coffeeNews:

Offline JoJo

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Re: Generators When size might not matter
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2015, 03:29:23 PM »
Yes Nemo it is 40amp and it is huge. I have clay soil and two leaching fields one is 60' and the other is 120' long. I want a tri-fuel gen because I have propane heat, cooking and dryer also it won't be to long before natural gas will be here, it's just down the road five years at the most. BRAT I was thinking along those lines, my high side numbers come in at 8150 watts. Definately will have a transfer switch with outside connection. 
I now have a starting place.

Thanks for all of your help guys.
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Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Generators When size might not matter
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2015, 04:16:19 PM »
Everybody is giving you some good advice.

We have a 4,000 watt generator and has served us well for 8 years. I can only remember once we needed more energy then it had. We were using 3 large electrical tools at the time.

Our septic pump is 120 volts. Most well pumps are 220 volts however our generator has a one 220 volt socket. So I guess you could pump into a 55 gallon barrel each day and use from there with a 120 volt or 12 volt marine pump.

One thing to look into is a propane powered carburetor for your gas generator. It's nice to have the ability to use alternate fuels.
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