Poison. Arrows, traps and medicine.

[thedigininja]

Shortly after I joined UP apx asked if I would write a post on poison arrows for hunting.

I ended up doing a slightly broader post.
I'm also going to leave it here in DIY because as I gain more information I will post updates including methods for harvesting/cooking, storing and using.

Before I begin I just want to say that this information is purely theoretical and that you should always be aware of and abide by your local laws. Poisons will be harmful/fatal to you and others so DON'T DO IT. (I'm sure that this isn't necessary for any of you but one can never be too careful. )

Firstly you need to determine your intended use and source of your poison because not all can be used interchangeably, for example you wouldn't want to go hunting with nicotine sulphate because you'll most likely end up rendering your kill useless as it would be toxic to you in even tiny doses.
The most reliable source of information is usually to do research on the indigenous people of your area. Weighing up which to use always comes down to pros and cons. For example I prefer plants based poisons because once you're able to identify the plants it's quite simple to chop them up and boil them down with minimal risk to yourself whereas my sensei prefers using cobra venom because you require smaller doses and it remains effective for much longer once applied to arrows/darts but trying to attain their venom comes with great risk to yourself.

In toxicology the term LD50 (lethal dose 50%) is used. That means "what dosage is lethal 50% of the time".

When it comes to poison arrows you would most likely determine the LD50 of the selected toxin for the size game and double it (just to be sure). That poison is then distributed through the body before killing the the target so when you consume it's meat, even though you'll be ingesting some of the poison, it will be such a low concentration that it wouldn't be effective on you.(For example if you're using a protein based toxin with an LD50 of 2mg\kg you would require 100mg for a 50kg buck double that to 200mg. You then cut off 1kg of that meat to consume which theoretically contains 4mg of the toxin. With me being almost 100kg the concentration would only be 0.04mg\kg, far below the range of effect.) According to some sources this small dose can even help to develop a tolerance over time but even though I wouldn't test that theory it is not true for all poisons (cyanide and arsenic for example).

MOST poisons have many positive properties too (henbane for example) resulting in their use as medicines by many primitive men. If you think of it in relation to modern medicine, what can cure you can also kill you. It's all about the dosage.

Poisons can also be an effective form of security.
Homemade pepper spray with different plant additives can cause temporary blindness, hallucinations, respiratory and/or cardiac difficulties or even death.
Some poisons are very easily absorbed through the skin (pure nicotine for example) which makes them very useful for fortifications.

I plan for this to be a "living" thread which I will update/modify whenever I have time or fresh information. Once again, be safe and smart.

[JohnyMac]

Great start thedigininja! Thank you 

I can't wait to see what else you or someone else posts.

[Kbop]

definitely be careful about any toxic substance you use.
-  if you intend on eating a critter that was poisoned, I highly suggest that the poison used be a protein based poison (like many plant based and some snake venoms).
the protein will break down during the cooking process (cook it WELL).  Too many natural poisons need to be concentrated and have a short shelf life. 
Elemental poisons have a nearly infinite shelf life, but cooking will not remove them. 
-  I might use them for defensive purposes but I would have to be really desperate to hunt with them.
rather than poisoning a weapon for hunting I would poison a bait.  But now you are facing the problem with ingested poisons, the dosage isn't controlled and the onset times are widely variable.  if eating a poisoned animal, you must know the type of poison or you shouldn't even mess around with the carcass.  some toxins concentrate in various organs, like the liver, or the blood.  some are fat soluble.  some may be in the muscle tissue or even nerve tissue.
--
there are lots of good ethnobotany and toxicology books out there.

[Kbop]

a quick question on the ethnobotany front.  Has anyone ever tried a willow tree bark infusion or meadow sweet root compound as an analgesic or anti febral?
I always wanted to try that.

[thedigininja]

Spot on kbop! Good practice is to dispose of the organs in general and the meat that actually came into contact with the poison (about 1cm around the wound) as that would still be highly concentrated.

As for willow it is really only effective for a severe headache at best. Meadow sweet sounds familiar but I can't place it so I can't comment on that.

[Kbop]

Meadow sweet sounds familiar but I can't place it so I can't comment on that.

Meadow Sweet is an old world plant with ASA in it.

[thedigininja]

Remember me saying that the best way to learn about what to use is by learning from the locals? Well that's exactly what I did here. If I were to propigate plants to use it would be the bushman's poison arrow plant (acokanthera oblongifolia), it's right there in the name. Grows particularly well in southern Africa and Australia, I'm sure there are drier areas in the USA where it would flourish too. The technique that they used to obtain the toxins is basic and would work with most poisonous plants. You simply pull out the plant, roots and all, chop it into small bits, toss it into a big pot add just more water than you need to cover the chunks of plant (the bushmen weren't great with measurements) and let boil over low fire for about 6 hours. This is where you would need to be careful. Remove and discard the plant matter (wear surgical and work gloves if you must or use a tool that would allow you to remove without coming into contact with it) apparently they just did it with their hands, which I would advise against. Let the remaining water continue to reduce into a paste, at this point some sap from nearby trees would often be added to make the paste more dense allowing it to bond to the arrow head better but you could simply apply multiple coatings allowing for the previous to dry and quickly dipping the head back into the paste. This would remain effective for a few days to weeks (I suppose depending on the storage conditions).

The bushmen were small people who would have difficulty taking down larger game with their primitive bows so using a force multiplier like poison made perfect sense for them. They would also use diluted doses of the poison as remedy for abdominal pain and complications and snake bites.

[Kbop]

interesting cardio-glycoside you have there (translation, fast acting).  it would definitely be effective at bringing down game.    the internets says it has a very wide habitat and has been used to bring down animals as like HIPPOs!  that's some serious firepower there.   I haven't heard of it before.what is the method of meat preparation after bringing down the target? would you plan on a barbed projectile to make it stay in the wound to transfer as much toxin as possible?
- I've never considered using toxins as a hunting tool.  Good food for thought.

[thedigininja]

Barbed tips were, and in some areas still are, common practice. Personally I've been playing with the idea of loose fitting heads, the intension being that once it penetrates it dislodges from the shaft and leaves the head in bedded in the target allowing for as much of the toxin to be absorbed as possible.

The bushmen would eat everything, leaving only the meat around the wound. Simply tossing the meat directly into the coals. Unfortunately I have to say that you don't have an option of how you want your meat done here, when hunting with poison it's gotta be on the well done side.

Most people today wouldn't consider hunting with poisons and for good reason,  it can be dangerous. But our ancestors survived this way and if something were to happen and you couldn't maintain your 150lb hunting crossbow or ran out of ammo for your rifle then being able to improve the effectiveness of the shitty little bow/spear/dart that you frankensteined from debris you found along the trail could be the difference between dying with a mouth full of berries or sitting enjoying a nice fatty chunk of chargrilled game. It's a great equaliser.