2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build

[Jackalope]

Very cool.  It's always nice when a plan comes together!  Hopefully, you've stocked some spare components.

[JohnyMac]

We had another power outage this week after a storm blew through. The dead Ash trees are falling like wheat in a field during a tornado after their infection of some damn Chinese beetle.

Anyway, like usual, I flipped a few switches and all was good.

While I was flipping switches, I thought to myself that this whole house was setup for "off grid" from its inception. We have a propane stove fired with pilot lights. Our water is pumped into a cistern weekly. From the cistern it is pumped throughout the cabin off of a independent 12-volt solar system. Our Sirius radio and the radios in the ham shack come off that system.

All of our lighting when the grid goes down are Aladdin lamps and I am working on battery or power pack/pack fired lights in the future. The Aladdin lamps are just to damn hot in the summer.

Then we have the big solar array for the freezers, refrigerators, and hot water heater. My plan in the winter is to run a alternate line from the 110/120 side of the solar inverter electrical box to the house electrical box. So in theory, I can have 110/120 to any parts of the house as needed. We would probably just use it to fire up the TV, satellite, and internet plus the big ceiling fan in the great room.

Nice!

[Obh]

JM, I'd think about some 12V LEDs that are run by a powerpole distribution panel or a simple series of rocker switches.

[JohnyMac]

Thx OBH    Do you or anybody have a suggestion of a company (s) I can start my search with?

[Jackalope]

   For power distribution, I use a West Mountain RIGrunner, which has powerpole connectors.  Here's a good selection of panels: https://www.dxengineering.com/search/part-type/dc-multiple-outlet-panels

   Regarding lighting, I use a combination of 12 volt led lights, and also some USB led light strings which are used with either a 12 volt to usb converter, or a usb 5vdc power pack.  There are 12vdc led light bulbs, which fit conventional light fixtures.  I've found those on Amazon and Ebay.  The light fixture power cords have powerpole connectors installed, so the lights appear to be conventional lights.  I have both 12 vdc and usb extension cords, which allow us to temporarily install lights throughout the house.  In the aftermath of a tornado last year, we were the only ones in the neighborhood to have lighting throughout the house, and that can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending upon the security situation.

[JohnyMac]

Yeah Jackalope, I use those power distributers for my ham shack.

W hat I am looking for is a name of a company that supplies lights. Either 12 volt, flashlight type batteries or a power pack. Thoughts?

[Jackalope]

How about West Marine?  https://www.campingworld.com/inside-rv/indoor-lighting   Or just modify existing fixtures and use appropriate voltage bulbs.


I also have some Biolite USB powered strings, and lanterns.  They run off of either a DC converter, or a USB battery power pack.  They are dimmable too, I use one in the radio room.  I've been satisfied with them, and I use a Biolite Solar Panel 5+ to recharge the USB packs.  https://www.bioliteenergy.com/collections#lanterns-string-lights

 

[pkveazey]

For what its worth..... I sat down and calculated the total wattage needed to turn on every light in and outside my house and it came out to 1000 watts. If the SHTF, I'll go into my lightbulb stash and pull out all my LED bulbs that fit regular lamp sockets and save the used Incandescent bulbs along with my stash of new incandescent bulbs. I have a ton of extra Incandescent bulbs stocked up for SHTF. You can bet that most preppers and non-preppers have never given any thought to extra lightbulbs. When the Left Wing Environmental Whackos got their way and put a stop to 100 watt lightbulbs, I ran out and bought about 2 dozen extras before they were banned. I've got every size bulb you can imagine, from 7 watt nightlight bulbs, 15 watt, 25 watt, 40 watt, 60 watt, 70/80 watt, and several extra outdoor floodlight bulbs. Some are for regular sockets and some are for small sockets. If all else fails, I've got about a gazillion candles. I hope that I'll never need to connect my 5,000 watt solar system because my 10,000 watt surge/8,000 watt continuous gasoline Generator has been able to handle whatever I've thrown at it for many years.

[JohnyMac]

Thanks gents! 

[JohnyMac]

A couple days ago I installed the generator plug wiring into the charger portion of the Schneider 4048 Charger/Inverter. It only took a year- LOL.



What finally got me moving was, we did not have much solar activity for four days straight and I was down to 60% of my battery capacity. Currently, we are only running a chest freezer, refrigerator, and on demand propane Rannai water heater. If I was running my other refrigerator and two chest freezers, I would have had to disconnect them from the solar system and run off of grid juice.

The new socket is set up for 240 volts and 30-amps. Currently, with an adapter, I can charge using the 240 volt's from the generator or using a 240 volt/120 volt adapter for grid juice.


240/120 volt adapter connected to 10 gauge extension cord


Bitter end of extension cord where I plug in to charge from grid juice

I am keeping a record of how long it takes to bring the batteries up to 100% using 120 volt grid juice. I will have a better idea once I finish my record keeping but right now it is about 1-hour of grid juice for every 10% positive move in battery storage capacity. So if the batteries are at 70% it takes an hour to get to 80%. That is a preliminary guess. I suspect it will take about half the time using 240 volts from my generator.

Being in the marine industry for 20+ years, I learned that it is a good idea to exercise your deep cycle batteries; Consequently, I do not worry about taking them down to 55-60% and then letting the sun charge them or if need be augmenting the charging process using grid or generator juice.

Side note, my generator, under load, runs for ~12 to 14-hours on one tank of gas. My preliminary guest-a-ment is, if I had all my freezers, refrigerators plus the instant water heater, and ran a few low wattage items in the house with minimal sunlight for lets say 2-3 days, I would have to run the generator once every two days for maybe 2-hours each day. Or use grid juice for 4-hours. Running the generator for maybe three times a week two hours each time to maintain our standard of living will cost us about 3-gallons of gas a week. Again, this is a preliminary educated guess. 

This morning we were at 80% capacity level. We had direct sun till noon then it became overcast. At the time of this writing, we had gathered 1.8 kWh which brought our battery capacity to close to 100%.

Currently, I have a string of four 20 amp sockets running off one of the inverter feeds. These supply juice to three freezers, two refrigerators and the instant water heater. Next on the punch list is to run another feed line to the electrical box and install a generator transfer switch. If needed, the plan is to turn off all the breakers with the exception of the one or two that we need.

As promised, there will be some additional comments as I learn more about our solar system. Stay tuned.

 

[Nemo]

x

[JohnyMac]

It had been awhile since my last update so here goes.

Winter
> The panels set at 30 degrees did great. Due to the 30 degree angle I really did not have much maintenance post snow storms as the panel would self shed the snow. However, when it was a wet snow and then freeze, I would have to take a broom to the panels.

Due to my Lat Lon I had to monitor the fill rate of the batteries a lot more. When the batteries got down to 55-60% I would fire up the generator to recharge the battery bank which would take 1 hour for each 10% down. So if the batteries were at 60% it would take 4-hours to get them back to 100%. And that is while everything is running in the background at the same time.

Keep in mind that was only if I ran into maybe a 3-day stretch of no sun and the batteries got down to that low level.

Of course, If I was to lazy to run the generator, (I hate the noise) I would plug the system into grid power that the cabin was using. I had moved my 3,500/4,000 watt generator from the shed down to under the porch just before the snow started falling. I hate starting then listening to that beast rumble on. I am thinking of buying a quieter one like the Yamaha 2,000 watt and putting the big one back into the shed away from the cabin. One is none and two is one. 

Spring
> On March 15th I went to my Solar Panel Angle Converter to checked out the proper angle for my AO for spring. It was 50 degrees but in the end I raised the panels to 55 degrees. Keep in mind if using this converter you need to subtract the angle they recommend from 90 degrees to get the proper angle if using a angle app like the free Ridgid one I down loaded from Apple for my phone.

Summer
Just after Memorial day, I will raise the angle of the solar panels to 70%.

Fall I will lower the angle of the panels back down to 50 degrees

Just before Thanksgiving, I did drop a few trees due south of the panels that were casting shadows onto the panels. This spring there are two more that need to go down. Normally, I would not hesitate cutting them down but they are all nice sap producing maple trees close to the cabin.

From the last time I posted about our system, the grid went down about a half dozen times. Some times it was for maybe an hour or two and once it was down for two days. The purpose of the 48 volt system as stated earlier, was to power three chest freezer's two refrigerators, and our Rinniai instant propane water heater. Our water and radio system runs on a separate solar system which uses 12 volt vs. the 48 volt system. 

When we were out for the two days, along with the already designated appliances, the 48 volt system did provide extra juice for our entertainment system, (TV/Internet/wifi) too along with the ceiling fan. Light was created from a few LED lights and Aladdin Lamps. And of course our propane stove is 100% OFF the grid. By the way, those Premier Ranges are great for off grid use.

Our Premier Range is a pilot light fired one BUT as of 2014 it is illegal to buy a pilot light version in the States. Now the ignition source for their off grid propane ranges is 4-AA batteries that uses a electric spark. They work great as we had a marine version for our sail boat. 

So there you go.

73 & God Bless

[JohnyMac]

I took advantage of a sale and my neighbor driving out to altE in Massachusetts to pick up 4 more KiloVolt PL2100 batteries.

My system is now complete. We have 16 solar deep cycle AGM batteries (4 sets). I have been 100% on it since .
the beginning of June.



We are using,

> 3 Chest freezers,
> 2 refrigerators, and a
< Rinnai instant propane water heater.

Now granted it is summer, however, my system has yet to drop below 75%; Consequently, I have not had to top off the batteries with the generator yet. I know that this will change as we roll into December and through February though.

We have lost power several times since May for 8 to 24 hours. I ran the above list of electrical items PLUS, I hooked the system into the house electrical panel and ran our entertainment center, ham radio's, and great room ceiling fan with no issues.

Light was simple LED lamps like this one here https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08YP31Q9R?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I will update this thread through the winter.

As a side note, my neighbor went with a 10 kWh system very similar to mine but using lithium batteries at $1,500-. He has had two lithium batteries fail since we hooked everything up. altE replaced them with no questions asked free of charge and free shipping. When we went out to MASS. to pick up my batteries he picked up 4 more panels and 4 more lithium batteries. So he is up to 3-banks of 48 volts each bank. For kicks and giggles, he has now spent ~$14K in batteries.

His goal is to run his whole house on his system for 48-hours without topping off with the houses generator.

I will add to this thread as new information becomes avaiable.

73

[Felix]

Hugely appreciate the running updates.
No backup system here yet except for the 10kw propane-fueled gen (and a small Honda) - but loads, recharging, latest tech - all so useful in planning for those of us not quite "up to speed" yet.
My needs - two reefers, one chest freezer, water heaters for the horse's troughs in the Winter (although in younger years, I simply added gallons of near-boiling water each morning - more firewood, more lifting for my aging back!)
The lighting part, no problemo - LEDs really come to the rescue there - and incandescents - also hugely valuable not just for light but also for their "waste heat" in some areas.

[JohnyMac]

As a good friend that lives in Alaska stated in an earlier email exchange, a lot of folks who live off the grid in Alaska just use a generator and solar batteries. Using a 2000 W Honda generator and a 55 gallon metal drum of petrol, they run their generator daily (As needed) to recharge their battery bank and call it a day. They use one drum a month. This is a viable option especially in the winter when solar activity at that latitude is limited.

This certainly works except when you can not get any petrol.

Lets look at some costs.

55 gallon drum of petrol x $4.00 a gallon for gas = $220- Plus the added challenge of transport.
$220 x 12 months = $2,640- a year.

$1,000- for a Honda 2000 W generator and wiring. You would have that for solar or lets call Alaska Off Grid (AOG).

Then you have to add batteries and a inverter/charger. My numbers below are based on a 48 volt system. You could use a 24 or 12 volt system which is cheaper however less efficient. Try running some electrical devises on a 12 or 24 volt system.

48 volt Inverter/charger = $2,000-
16 AGM batteries @ $400- each = $6,400-. lithium will run you about $1,000- each and you will only need 12 because you can take lithium down to 25% charge.

Then the last part...Good quality solar panels are about $300- a panel for 400 watts. I have 6. 6 x $300- = $1,800. Almost half a years worth of petrol for the generator.

Just in my opinion, even for folks who may live in a more northern latitude then me, the best system is a combination of petrol/generator and solar panels. They complement each other. One is none and two is one.

I will stop rambling on now. Thoughts?

 

[Sir John Honeybucket]

Thank you for posting this.  IT helps me to aim higher than the mid-grade system I have, to keep radios, 12 volt lighting and ability to recharge gadgets going.  Perhaps I should up my game while its still easy to order materials and make it easier for my wife to use it, as in' turn this switch and use the plugs with red back plates' (emergency power).

73 de SJH

[Jackalope]

Rather than complementing the solar system with a petrol based power source, why not look at other alternate sources of energy?  If you have the right location, wind or hydro could be a good source.  At my old location, I used a small wind system, which was usually active when there wasn't sufficient sunlight.  Both wind and hydro can provide power around the clock, weather permitting.  I found a wind system worked well during the winter months.  But it's not the solution for everyone.  I also had a small bicycle generator, that was used mostly for exercise during the winter months, but it did provide a trickle of power.

[JohnyMac]

Wow, I just noticed I have not posted anything on our solar system since July. Here is an update.

1) All is working as expected. Running on one less refrigerator at the moment as we just do not need it. I will turn it back on
    today as Thanksgiving is approaching and will need the extra refrigerator room. I am also running with one less chest
    freezer on the system. I plugged that one into the grid while the other two chest freezers, one fridge, and Rinnai instant
    water heater is on the solar system. The trees just south of the panels are limiting charging capabilities due to the angle of
    the sun. I really hate cutting down those maple (Sugar) trees. I will have to if/when the grid goes down permanently. 

2) Drooped the angle of the panels from Summer to fall (70 degrees to 50 degrees).

3) Built a wood box for the generator. I hate that noise so I hope it will help reduce the db's from it. Also, the porch did a OK
    job of protecting the generator...Only a OK job. If anybody is interested I will write a brief review of that.

4) Back in August I ran ROMEX 12/2 wire to the houses electrical power box from the Inverter power box. Installed a Generator
    Transfer switch. When the grid goes down, I just shut off the main switch and flip the switches (Main Breaker/solar breaker)
    and turn off the switches on the main breaker but the one that powers a few items in the great room.

5) I am debating cutting down those maples or just adding three more 400W panels. I may end up doing both. I will wait till
    alte has another sale to decide.

6) The first week of December, I will drop the panels down for the winter to 30 degrees.

Bottom-line, I am still pretty dang happy with the purchase of this system.

On another note...

My neighbor purchased a similar system last spring but setup for 13 Kwh. He also used Lithium batteries instead of the AGM batteries I chose. All n' all, his system cost ~$25K. He told me the other day that if he knew how much it would have cost in the end he would not have gone solar.

After a full charge, he is only getting 12-16 hours of run time for his whole house before the sun has to recharge his batteries or he plugs in his charger to the grid. In essence, he has no backup if the grid goes down for days at a time and the sun is not shining for what ever reason. Yes he does have a generator if the grid goes down.

I do not want to put my neighbor down, however, he really does not understand how the system works.  Bottom-line, he needs more storage capabilities and probably a larger controller and inverter/charger to keep his whole home in power for days.
Obviously, when the grid goes down, he will have to limit his use to necessities.

Well with that quick update, wishing all a relaxing Thanksgiving. 

[Nemo]

And he needs to learn how to use much less power over the course of a day.

Nemo

[JohnyMac]

  Yupper.

[pkveazey]

Your neighbor will learn the hard way that he must learn Power Management. My system is only 240 volts AC @ 5000 Watts with 3 - 100 Amp hour Lithium Batteries and I'll only be using it for low power items for long term and when I need the well water, I'll turn it on just long enough to fill the bladder tank and then turn it off. The Hot water heater is definitely not going to be turned on unless it's for just a short period of time. I already do that with my 240 volt - 10,000 watt gasoline generator. When I talked to the Battleborn Batteries Engineer, I asked him if the 3 - 100 Amp hour batteries would get me through from sundown to dawn, he said "No problem, as long as you don't get stupid with high current items." From what he told me, I should be able to run all my lights, TV, Ham Radio, Refrigerator, and Computer. Keep in mind, those things won't be turned on 100% of the time. I measured the voltage and current of one solar panel and got about 20 volts DC at 5 Amps in full bright sun light. Four of those panels in parallel should give me about 20 volts at 20 Amps into the 30 Amp charge controller. I've got 1 extra 100 watt solar panel and a spare 30 Amp charge controller out in the shed for charging other folks items and for powering my extra 1000 Watt 120 volt inverter. So far, I'm into it for about $4,000 for everything. Those damned batteries are about $900 each. I also have to keep in mind that if I run out of battery storage in the nighttime, I can always hook up jumper cables from my SUV to the batteries to make it through the night. About 1 hour of Jumper charging with the motor idling should put a lot of juice into the batteries.

[JohnyMac]

Yes PKv, power management is the key.