Author Topic: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build  (Read 18259 times)

Offline JohnyMac

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2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« on: June 22, 2021, 01:32:48 PM »
2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build



I am going to publish this off grid solar system review, all on one thread as opposed to three sperate articles. Hence, you will need to return often as I will be adding new information.

The agenda will be

> Background of why,
> Set-up outside, racking, and solar panels,
> Setup inside, batteries and electronics, and finally
> Results and overall costs.

We currently have a 4Kw petrol generator that we have used for back-up when the electricity goes down at the redoubt. We hate to turn it on as it is noisy and uses a tank of petrol every 12 hours or so. Typically, we only turn it on when the electric has been out for 8 hours and only for our freezers and refrigerators. The generator is only fired up when I am home. If I am traveling and the electric goes out the neighbor comes over to start it up as my wife just can not do this function. Consequently, we have been looking at adding solar to augment our current needs if the electric goes out for years.

To be self-sufficient, we needed a system that produced 13 Kwh/a day which when I started the process of inquiring into solar, the prices were way above our means - Somewhere in the $18,000- range. This year’s search, I lowered my expectations a bit to 7 Kwh/a day. That estimate came in around $13,000- which was still way above our means.

A bit disillusioned it finally came to me, we were trying to take the generator out of the equation that we only used for the freezers and refrigerator. I did a quick calculation and determined we only needed 3.5Kwh/a day to run the appliances. I asked for a quote from several different companies and all the quotes came back in the $8,200- range which was manageable for our budget.

One of the companies that we had quotes from was running a sale on in-house inventory, so I vetted the company and decided to go with them. The company was altE. The final cost using a cash discount of 3% was, $7,800-.

We could have probably saved a few additional bucks by piecemealing components from several solar companies however, I wanted one source to go to for,

> Knowledge,
> Product guarantees if something went wrong, and
> A company that made sure I had all the correct components, One and Done.

The shipment arrived 10-days after the purchase via common carrier on 2-pallets. We live in a very remote part of Pennsylvania on a two-track township dirt road. Knowing that there would be nowhere for the 18-wheeler to turn around I met the truck out on the dirt state road. I instructed the truck driver to back up onto my road to a level spot on the road. The tucker was incredibly happy that he did not have to back down the road a half a mile to the cabin. The tuck had a lift gate and pallet jack, so the pallets were off loaded quickly.





As the truck pulled away, I looked at my watch and thought I would have this loaded into the bucket of my Kubota tractor and into the cellar in about two hours. Plenty of time before lunch - I was wrong.

As I was standing there trying to figure out how to load six, 4' x 7', 67-pound solar panels onto the back of my F150, a turkey hunter came walking down my road returning from his morning spring hunt.

We chatted for a bit and I asked him if he would help me load the panels onto my truck. He whole heartedly agreed and in no time had the truck loaded. Drove the truck down to the cabin and parked it. As I was walking back to the head of the road, I saw my neighbor grabbing a bale of hay for his Scottish Highland Cattle. He asked me what I was up to, and I bent his ear for a few minutes. He offered to help me if needed as he would be around all day.

In no time, my neighbor and I had the solar panels off the truck and stacked near where they will be used. More on that later. Once that task completed, I walked back down the road head to get the rest of the contents of our solar system.

Once the assorted boxes and 11-foot box containing four IronRidge solar panel rails that the panels will lay on, I was only down to the eight 127-pound deep cycle batteries. They were tough to get onto the tractor bucket but with a lot of pushing and pulling that task was completed, I was off to the cellar the new home for the batteries.

If I thought it was tough getting the batteries off the pallet and onto the tractor bucket, it was twice as hard getting them off the bucket and the 20-feet they needed to travel into the cellar. My shoulder still hurt as I type this article.

I picked up the empty pallets and assorted packaging material and I glanced at my watch and it was 1600 hrs. OUCH!

The plan that altE and I agreed on was to install the solar panels at ground level for easy maintenance especially in the winter when snow becomes an issue, on the south side of the cabin. The design gave the racking the ability to change angle twice a year to make best use of the angle of the sun.

The racking would consist of two racks of three solar panels each, due to the weight of the racking and panels (estimated at this point 270-pounds per each panel rack). Each rack would be secured at one side to a 1/2-inch black pipe secured to the columns of my porch. The other end would go up and down using 1?-inch perforated square tube nestled into 1 1/2-inch perforated square tube to produce a telescoping column.


Telescoping columns


2" x 6" x 8' treated wood beams attached to 1/2" pipe.



Pipe clamps affixed to end of beams and pipe

Between the porch secured black pipe and the telescoping columns were three 2'x 6'x 8' pressure treated wood beams. This is what the 11-feet of solar panel rails are attached too. The solar panels would be secured to are fastened to the rails.


IRONRIDGE 'grip caps' and rails attached to beams.


IRONRIDGE panel rails attached to 'grip caps' just before columns are attached.

Due in part to other responsibilities like the garden going in, visiting my mom about three hours away, receiving my tri-axle of wood for the coming winter, et cetera, it took me about ten days to build the racking. All told around 40-hours.


Racking done!

Once the racking was completed, I drafted my 17-year-old neighbor to help with putting the solar panels onto the IRONRIDGE solar panel rails and securing them with specific bolts from the same outfit. The bolts fit into the well thought out rails at the recommended 80 in/pound torque.

Playing with 42"x 7', 67-pound panels over your head in 90-degree unseasonable heat, was not a lot of fun. Working around my neighbor's schedule and life, it took about two weeks to finally finish this part of the build and to stand back and admire the work we had done.


Panels Up! The racking is done

Feel free to ask any questions using this thread. Over the next couple of weeks, on rainy days that prevent me from cutting firewood and working in the garden, I will be wiring up the system.

Stand by....




« Last Edit: June 27, 2024, 12:48:43 PM by JohnyMac »
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Offline grizz

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2021, 11:36:14 AM »
 :cheers:
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Offline JohnyMac

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2021, 07:43:55 AM »
Wires hung and inside the cellar from the solar panels. The solar panel distribution box, E-panel, and SW inverter hung. I have yet to install the controller as I do not want to hang it and then have to move it because it is in the way of other wire runs.



Trying to find #4, 6, 8, and 10/2 and 3 Romex wire is pretty hard right now. Like lumber, Romex wire is tough to find and if you can find the wire, it is a small fortune. Consequently, I have ordered individual wire by color and size - Should be here by Monday. I would have rather used Romex, as I wouldn't have had to fish wire through conduit. Oh well, the life of a prepper.

More detail on this in the near future. Just didn't want the readers here at Unchainedpreppers to think I had gone dark on the install. Been working primarily on cutting and splitting firewood right now.

73
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Offline pkveazey

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2021, 07:19:17 PM »
As best I can tell, you have everything all connected and ready to go and just need heavy wire to feed the panel box. As a side note, I was warned by Battle Born to make sure I hooked the batteries to the charge controller before I connect the solar panels up to the charge controller. It had something to do with the charge controller wanting to have a load already in the line.

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2021, 07:57:19 PM »
Thanks PKv on the suggestion.

This system does not have the PV cables going directly to the Controller. All wire goes to a E-panel that has DC circuit breakers installed along with a 175-amp master breaker. From the e-panel everything is fed and monitored, e.g. Controller, inverter/charger, AC utility box to the house, battery bank, and generator. Ig nor the 3.6KWH nonculture at the bottom right, my system is 4.8 KWH with bypass/inverter setting's.



Enjoy...
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Offline Jackalope

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2021, 10:08:33 PM »
    Those E-panels are slick.  I helped install a similar system at a remote, off-grid office, and it was my first exposure to E-panels.  They certainly simplify the installation and they make for a much neater installation.  Looking at the circuit diagram, it looks like exactly the same set-up, and the components were all from Alt-E, so it probably is quite similar.  The electrician I was working with had never worked on a solar system prior to that installation.  The system worked great when it was completed, and the electrician was a convert to off-grid solar.

     Johny, it looks like you're doing a fantastic job, I'm sure you and Mrs. Mac will be pleased with the end result.

Offline Felix

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2021, 06:47:52 AM »
Big congrats on accomplishment.   
Our project is now on hold due to permitting issue (county sez we need a special floodplain survey.
 I do have a question though if anybody can advise...
 Of all the components, I would guess the controller would be a weak link due to complexity/fragile nature?
Is this item in need of protection from EMP?   Can it be protected and operate at the same time?

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2021, 08:49:29 AM »
Great question Felix.

Jackalope and I have chatted about just this subject off line and hopefully, he will chime-in too. Because the controller is grounded to the system, it will probably cease to function post an EMP. It is better to have one sitting inside a faraday cage for just this purpose.

For me, a new Midnite Classic 150 Controller to just sit in the faraday gage would be ~$600-. Well, I have back-up transceivers so why not solar components.

A new Schneider SW inverter/charger would run ~$1,400-. I am sure you could find a cheaper Chinesium one however?? Keep in mind I only need the inverter/charger if I was going to run AC or recharge the batteries in January/February when the panels would not keep up charging the batteries.

Again, good question  :thumbsUp:

I just received an email stating my wire will be here Monday via USPS. That means Tuesday where I live.  ;) So, if it is raining on Wednesday, I will continue the wiring part of the project. If it isn't raining I will be splitting firewood.
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Offline Jackalope

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2021, 09:52:28 AM »
    Yeah, the controller is the brains of your system.  It makes sense to have an extra, even without EMP.  My research indicates that the panels should survive an EMP or CME fine.  From my reading, the charge controller is the most likely component to fail in a photovoltaic system, so that just reinforces the need for a spare.  Putting the spare in a Faraday enclosure is a wise decision.  I've got several put away for a powerless day.

     I've been working with photovoltaic systems for over 40 years, and I've yet to see a panel go bad, except from physical damage.  I've got a 40 year old ARCO panel that still functions, though certainly not at full output.  However, I've replaced many, many charge controllers.  Many of the photovoltaic systems that I have experience with were installed near the top of fire observation towers.  I imagine most of the charge controller failures could be attributed to lightning or static discharges.  An EMP has a faster rise time than lightning, which logically means that the controller could potentially be more susceptible to an EMP.

     So, from a system reliability standpoint, it's advisable to have spares.  Inverters also can be electronically fragile.  I had to replace at least one due to a nearby lightning strike.  Here at my hacienda, I leave the inverter physically disconnected from everything, but it could be reconnected in a few minutes, and yup there's spare inverters put away, as well as a couple of extra solar panels.  If the Big Day actually occurs, you won't be going down to Home Depot or contacting Alt-E for replacement components.  You come to the party with what you have.

Offline Felix

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2021, 08:21:05 AM »
Thanks for insights.    Besides EMP, I am reminded of lightening - it underscores need for spares.
Where I live (on the Mogollon Rim, Arizona) lightening is common during the "monsoon" season (we're in the middle of it right now).   T-storms can get pretty violent with lots of lightening strikes and flash flooding (street in Flagstaff was shown with car being washed down it on national news a night or two ago).
When a big bolt comes down on/near you it is a deafening explosion.   And leaves big scars on the tall Ponderosa pines surrounding us.   It can kill trees, big ones.
Once, we had a big strike come down next to the house - and we had to replace some coaxial cable connections which showed some blackening.   Fortunately, all electronics, TV, etc. were turned off at the time, all survived except a TV/sat box.

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2021, 10:05:14 AM »
Well now, four months into this project, the wiring is DONE!







Yeah, I know... Four months? Well one month was lost due to Covid. Then there were stops and goes as I had to order additional components that were not available locally due to supply shortages. The biggest issue was wire.

Add to my excuses other projects I had to work on before winter approached. Excuses, excuses, excuses.

The next steps before I flip the switch are,

> Cleanup the work area in preparation for the eight batteries to be placed under the control panels,
> Unbox the batteries and move close to their final resting place,
> Build a battery box to prevent a possible fire hazard,
> Hook up battery cables and then,
> Flip the switch.  :dancingBanana:

One thing that I am scratching my head on is hooking up our generator to help out with a boost in January and February. The inverter/charger is a split-phase unit (SW 40480) from Schneider. I can't find a wiring diagram on the interwize and Schneider will not help me as I am not a certified and insured installer.  :facepalm:

Any electrical dude or dudett out there that could offer me some final advise?

Now I wonder what I should do with all of these screws and such left over...  :hiding:

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Offline Nemo

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2021, 11:59:50 AM »
Now I wonder what I should do with all of these screws and such left over...  :hiding:

Put them in a big plastic jar on a shelf in the garage or basement.   You never know when the right fitting one for something else will be found in that jar.  No one else does either.  They most like will never fit anything right. 

I know, I have a couple jars.  I check them often.

And 1000 years from now they will be discovered and vewied as religious artifacts of some unknown civilization.

Nemo
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Offline FeedingFreedom

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2021, 12:46:13 PM »
Now I wonder what I should do with all of these screws and such left over...  :hiding:

Put them in a big plastic jar on a shelf in the garage or basement.   You never know when the right fitting one for something else will be found in that jar.  No one else does either.  They most like will never fit anything right. 

I know, I have a couple jars.  I check them often.

And 1000 years from now they will be discovered and vewied as religious artifacts of some unknown civilization.

Nemo

Failing that, they would make great shrapnel for anti-varmint eradication measures.
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Offline JohnyMac

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2021, 12:52:23 PM »
Two Legged varmints I would think.
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Offline FeedingFreedom

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2021, 08:07:18 AM »
What type of batteries are you using JM? Storage is the toughest part of any system, I need to replace my 6 golf cart batteries soon, and I'm looking for alternatives. I'd love to get bigger LiFePO4 batteries but the cost is prohibitive for more than one or two.
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Offline Jackalope

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2021, 09:39:26 AM »
What type of batteries are you using JM? Storage is the toughest part of any system, I need to replace my 6 golf cart batteries soon, and I'm looking for alternatives. I'd love to get bigger LiFePO4 batteries but the cost is prohibitive for more than one or two.

      Renogy is having an open box sale on eBay.  Their 100ah lithium batteries are priced at $600 each.  I paid $1000 each for the same batteries two years ago, so the prices are dropping.  You can get by with less lithium batteries, because you can draw them down much farther than conventional lead acid batteries, plus they have a much longer lifespan.  I'm expecting my batteries to last 15-20 years, so the when the cost is spread over a longer time period, the cost per year is reasonable.

     Johny, great job on the wiring, it looks good!

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2021, 02:52:40 PM »
FF, I am using 8, Kilovaultsealed AGM 180-Amp, 12-volt deep cycle batteries. The batteries are rated at 3,000 total cycles with a 3-year 100% guarantee and after that 2-year prorated guarantee. I paid $395- each for them.

If I had the money, lithium is the way to go for sure. Most lithium have a 10-year warranty and like what jackalope wrote, you can take them down to 25% vs. 50% for the deep deep cycle ones. But with that all written, $600- per lithium battery, that is a deal changer. I might have gone for that.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 08:39:30 AM by JohnyMac »
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Offline pkveazey

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2021, 07:44:19 PM »
I bought 2 LiFePo (Lithium) 100 AH Battleborn batteries. They were $950 each but they sold them to me for $900 each and as best I can remember, they are on sale for somewhere between $800 to $900. There has just been a new kid on the block who is competing with Battleborn and they are selling a very similar product for about $700 to $750. All of the companies that I've looked at also have 6 volt and 24 volt batteries. Some even have 48 volt batteries. The Battleborn batteries have a 10 year warrantee. They also have all kinds of internal protection circuitry. They won't allow them to go to Zero volts, they won't allow overcharge, they have short circuit protection, and they won't allow charging to take place when the battery is colder than 20 degrees F. I probably should buy 2 more Battleborn's but I just hate spending those big bucks. My battery output will be fed into a 12 volt DC IN to 220 volt AC OUT Inverter rated at 5000 watts.

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2021, 11:36:14 AM »
For all intents and purposes my solar system is live as of Sunday.  :dancingBanana:

Last week my neighbor and I unboxed the eight batteries and wired them up once they were placed on a riser. Just need to build a cover so anything dropped accidently that is metal does not get welded to the batteries.  :hiding:



Once the battery cables were hooked up in series then parallel, I ran the 48-volt cables to the C-panel and eagerly checked out my Midnite controller. Well nada! Damn. Sat down for a minute and pondered what i did wrong.

Eureka! I figured it out. I needed to turn on the solar panel utility switch and breakers that controlled the controlling part of the system. i flipped the switched and then I heard a whitr of fan and a beep and the screen came on the MidNite controller.





Next I ran 12/2 Romex from the 120-volt utility box to a outlet. Well the wires running to the new outlet had 125-volts running to it, the outlet didn't work.  :facepalm:

I swapped out the outlet and viola! We had light.

Yesterday, I ran wire to my big freezer and she purred as usual. Later this week, I will run wire to the upstairs refrigerator, Rinnai instant water heater, and the other two freezers electrical outlets.

Next week, I will build a cover for the batteries and hook-up for the generator. Once those last minute taske are completed I will be 100% done.

I will monitor how things go and report back in about a month. I will also report on how much the final project cost.

Stay tuned.
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Offline Jackalope

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2021, 09:42:28 PM »
Awesome work Johny!  Don't you love it when a plan comes together?  Now I'm thinking of hooking up one our freezers to our system, but I'll need to add another array.  Just brought down another 700-800 watts of panels from the old house, so we should have enough panels available, though I'll keep some for spares and other projects.

I'm sure Mrs. Mac is pleased with your work.

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2021, 10:06:21 PM »
"I'm sure Mrs. Mac is pleased with your work."

Now she wants a new refrigerator and a updated kitchen since I am done. I guess the 2x4/plywood shelves and the 40-ish old refrigerator isn't enough.  :hiding:  :facepalm:
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Offline Jackalope

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2022, 10:53:33 PM »
So, how's the system working during the winter months?  Is there anything you would do different?  Any plans for system expansion?  Did Mrs. Mac get her new kitchen? 

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2022, 10:57:45 PM »
Number one thing would be, add more batteries.

On the kitchen, MrsMac got her new refrigerator but not the rest. I need an extra pair of hands and a strong back. All are in short supply at the redoubt at this time.  :violin:
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Offline Jackalope

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2022, 11:04:30 PM »
Lol, I can empathize with you Johny, my four legged security contractors aren't real helpful with my projects.  Spring is here temporarily, I'm hearing peepers tonight.  It was in the lower 70's today and it'll be warmer tomorrow, supposedly.

Anyways, seems like batteries are always the weakest link.

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: 2021 JohnyMac's 4.8 KWH Off Grid Solar System Build
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2022, 08:02:10 AM »
At the end of April I added four more Kilovault 180 amp batteries. I now have a total of 540 amps or in reality half of that or 270 amps.

Since I added the batteries, my system is running 3 chest freezers and 2 refrigerators with no issues as was intended during the planning stages.

We had a loss of electric last week for a few hours, and I flipped a switch and was able to run an amateur radio net with no hassle along with the aforementioned appliances. Now understand, radio equipment does not draw much power but during that period I had the interwize, computer monitor, and a few other items accessories on.   
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