Unchained Preppers
General Category => Security & Survival => Topic started by: Rail Driver on September 21, 2011, 01:25:49 AM
-
There are many like it. This one is mine:
(http://a3.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/117/af19bbb2a0ca4909bb0f1d2aa1ce3599/l.jpg)
-
And it's a fine one Rail Driver. Thanks for sharing a picture of your love.
-
Where did you get that handguard?
-
Dude that pistol grip looks like it came off a 1911. Nice gun man
-
Rail Driver
Very Nice, Is that one a Mini-Draco or Full size? I'm not that up on them?
RON l
-
I have been looking at the Draco's for a little now and would like to get one and make an SBR.
Great looking Draco, how does she shoot?
-
They kind of remind me of these
http://www.frontierfirearms.ca/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17_677_678&products_id=5143
Something that we CAN own, funny enough.
Nice draco, btw [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
-
Dude that pistol grip looks like it came off a 1911. Nice gun man
I don't know what method Rail Driver used but one way it could be accomplished is buying an ACE grip adapter:
http://www.parallaxtactical.com/store/ace-ar15-to-ak47-grip-adapter-205.html
and then using a 1911-style AR grip:
http://www.pearcegrip.com/Products/AR15/PG-AR15
Alternatively, you can just outright modify an AR grip to fit an AK. It takes a few minutes with a dremel to open up the front and a new hole has to be drilled. A shorter section of screw has to be used to secure it, obviously.
-
It's a mini draco, and shoots great with the slot brake. Almost no recoil.
I modified the original handguard into what you see in the pic. Dave_M is right, I modified the 1911 grip to fit. I've got the same grip on my .22LR AR-15 as well.
(http://a3.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/134/42fed5d90c9c4eb486821ef8e5dbf423/l.jpg)
-
Thanks Rail Driver
The Pics and all were Great! I thought it might have been a Mini-Draco, as it looked shorter and Different than Draco's I'd seen at Local shows? Nice work and thanks for sharing with us here!
RON L
-
Thanks Rail Driver
The Pics and all were Great! I thought it might have been a Mini-Draco, as it looked shorter and Different than Draco's I'd seen at Local shows? Nice work and thanks for sharing with us here!
RON L
Thanks to everyone for the kind words.
At first I was going to get a standard Draco, but I figure if I'm going to go to the lengths required to SBR this thing, then I want it as short as possible, and the Mini has the shortest gas system I've ever seen on an AK pattern firearm (Krinkov gas system is ~1/4" longer as is the barrel) and it's been as reliable as any other AK I've ever fired (though not nearly as accurate as the saiga I had awhile back)
-
Where did you get that handguard?
Here's a better picture of it:
(http://a4.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/150/a8f402baf0954e09a49d1d1a97e2c94e/l.jpg)
The magazine and dust cover also have the "snakeskin" pattern, but it's not as easy to see with my POS camera.
-
Dude that is sweet!
-
Did you remanufacture the hotdog that came with it or did you purchase seperately? I buddy got the mini recently, and is lookin' for a good handguard.
-
Did you remanufacture the hotdog that came with it or did you purchase seperately? I buddy got the mini recently, and is lookin' for a good handguard.
I did the wood work on the original. I didn't figure it would be worth reselling, and it didn't take more than a couple hours to do. If your friend would like, I can do his for $30 (+ $8 return shipping) just have him get in touch with me.
-
That's great work man, I have the original wood handgaurd that came with my 10.5" draco and might do some work to it. Love the paint as well. So far I have gotten the slant break installed, single point sling recessed in after market polymer pistol grip, 3 way rail with led strobe flashlight, gas block enameled, and cut the notch out of the safety to retain the bolt open. The only thing I really want to get is a drum and an ultimax.
-
SBR it or no point IMO
-
That's great work man, I have the original wood handgaurd that came with my 10.5" draco and might do some work to it. Love the paint as well. So far I have gotten the slant break installed, single point sling recessed in after market polymer pistol grip, 3 way rail with led strobe flashlight, gas block enameled, and cut the notch out of the safety to retain the bolt open. The only thing I really want to get is a drum and an ultimax.
Thanks. I'm thinking about getting a full size draco after I finish converting the Saiga I just bought with Tromix side folding skeleton stock, SAW grip until I can order 1911 grips, SGM tri-rail, not sure what brake I want to put on it yet... G2 FCG. I'll be moving the bolt to the left side as soon as I can get ahold of a welder (doing the same to my mini draco as well) as long as it will clear the stock... If I have to, I might modify the stock so that it clears the bolt handle on the left.
@Dave_M: The point of it all is that it's a fun gun to shoot, and using a sling (properly) it's almost as stable as with a stock. I do actually plan to SBR it, but not until I buy a house. Besides... My hobby happens to be customizing and (safely) modifying my firearms in ways that make them shoot better, more reliably, and/or more comfortably for me, so for you maybe there is no point but for me I rather enjoy the process.
-
I'm with you Dave, but I can go with a long ass compliance break as well with an ace sidefolder and vfg. But a stamp would be sweet. The sbr would allow the gun to be very configurable: Stock folded draco style. Stock folded with drum, and VFG thompson style. Unfolded SBR, unfolded with bipod.
-
long ass compliance break
I think the mini would look extremely silly with a 9" brake on the end... The full size draco would look a little better since all you need is 5.5" or 6"
-
Driver, since the 9" can is a no go on the mini (even though you see 'em all the time on less caliber pistol conversions) yeah I'm talkin about compliance for my full size. I'm worried about 2 things: a 5 3/4" break affecting the ballistics and the overall collapsability of the converted weapon.
-
Driver, since the 9" can is a no go on the mini (even though you see 'em all the time on less caliber pistol conversions) yeah I'm talkin about compliance for my full size. I'm worried about 2 things: a 5 3/4" break affecting the ballistics and the overall collapsability of the converted weapon.
Your ballistics shouldn't be affected enough to notice (maybe a slightly lower point of impact vs. with no muzzle device). 16" is 16" whether part of it is muzzle brake or not, so you'll definitely want a folding stock if you need portability.
-
@Dave_M: The point of it all is that it's a fun gun to shoot, and using a sling (properly) it's almost as stable as with a stock.
I guess we disagree about what, 'almost as' equates to
-
@Dave_M: The point of it all is that it's a fun gun to shoot, and using a sling (properly) it's almost as stable as with a stock.
I guess we disagree about what, 'almost as' equates to
You must not have been trained on the proper use of a sling. It helps make the idea a little more palatable if you've had a physics class or two, but I'd rather not get into it as I'm not much of a teacher.
In any case, a single point sling at the rear of the receiver, looped over the firing shoulder and pulled tight is a very stable platform to shoot from (though it isn't an EASY way of shooting. It has its purposes). The only real difference aside from a more compact system, is that instead of pulling the gun into your shoulder, you're pushing it away from you. It IS tiring, but it's effective. It's also my only option for the time being until I can afford a $200 stamp and a bunch of other red tape BS.
In any case, it is what it is. If you don't like it, don't do it.
-
You must not have been trained on the proper use of a sling.
Yah, that must be it
[URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
-
You must not have been trained on the proper use of a sling.
Yah, that must be it
Well, smartass comments like yours are generally used to mask ignorance.
Or you could just have nothing better to do than act like an ass... Maybe you lost your job and had to move back in with mommy and daddy, or maybe you're really just a 14yr old mall ninja pretending to be a man... Hey, I know, maybe you stubbed your toe and haven't had your coffee this morning! That's it!
In either case, I think I'm done having anything to do with you. See how it goes? When you're a rude, smartass individual, people are rude right back. Carry on and have a good one.
-
Allright break it up you two. I personally use a single point sling on a draco pistol as my primary. Why? because as Raildriver pointed out, the tax stamp system is costly and difficult to navigate for some. As Dave points out, there are better alternatives, but not for $400 out the door. So you're both wrong, i mean, you're both right...ARRGGHHH!!! [url=http://yoursmiles.org/p-m
-
You must not have been trained on the proper use of a sling.
Yah, that must be it
Chuckle...
-
You must not have been trained on the proper use of a sling.
Yah, that must be it
Chuckle...
Oh man, Dave that has got to be the coolest response I've seen in some time. :) I'm gonna steal it!
Rail I don't think he was trying to be a smart ass with you. I read it more like a "Yeah, right."
Dave, and for that matter technique, pretty much have their shit together when talking weapons. I've consistently read both of their posts and I get the feeling that they didn't gain their knowledge from reading books. I'm not saying you did. I'm just saying I haven't found very much at all I could argue with in their posts concerning weapons.
And I've looked 'cause that's one of my favorite things to do.
Now on space lizards, that's a different story. Those boys don't know jack about space lizards. lol
Hey, you guys share your info but lets not berate those who disagree. (Because someone always disagrees!)
I honestly haven't tried a folder with a sling to steady the aim. I know rail says it works great for him. I'd be a little uneasy with it.
Ain't America Great!
-
If he didn't mean his comment to be a smartass then I'm happy to retract my own, that's just how I read it and it's one of the dangers of the internet. Text can't provide tone.
In any case, a short sling on a pistol does wonders to stabilize it. If I'm not mistaken, I think it's the isrealis that came up with the method, but don't quote me on it because I'm not sure. The only positions I've found that give me trouble when I'm shooting with a sling, vs. shooting with a stock are prone and other positions where I'm stretched out and can't loop the sling well enough around my upper body. In those types of positions a stock is clearly superior. I never really said the sling was better than a stock anyway.
It's an effective alternative for someone who doesn't want to deal with the NFA process, or to use while waiting for approval.
Even with a stock, I like having the option should I need to fire the weapon with the stock folded for whatever reason.
-
You're getting some good advice here, RD.
Not everyday you get pointers from a combat vet and firearms instructor.
Personally, I also own a Draco. For me it's a novelty type weapon, that's how I perceive it.
However, my SCAR folds and I see your point about stability while firing with it in that position
and I think Dave can too.
-
You're getting some good advice here, RD.
Not everyday you get pointers from a combat vet and firearms instructor.
Personally, I also own a Draco. For me it's a novelty type weapon, that's how I perceive it.
However, my SCAR folds and I see your point about stability while firing with it in that position
and I think Dave can too.
I'm having trouble seeing where "SBR it or there's no point" is good advice, just my opinion.
No, it's not every day I get advice from combat vets and firearms instructors, but it happens often enough that I can tell good advice when I see it (and I don't deny that there's a lot of that on this site).
I spent a few years in the military (Active Duty, U.S. Army, 1999 - 2001) and got some training there and have taken a few courses since. Nothing special, and I'm not saying I'm better or worse trained than anyone here, just that I've been there too.
I don't see the Draco (or mini) as a novelty, at least not in a caliber that can tolerate a short barrel without losing a lot, and the 7.62x39 cartridge is well suited to short barrels (only ~12fps difference between 16" bbl and 8" bbl). Properly stocked, it's a formidable entry or close quarters (vehicular combat) weapon. With a sling instead of a stock it's more difficult to use and is much less stable, but still a very viable weapon. I also like the idea of a short compact weapon that uses the same high capacity magazines and ammo as my full size rifle (a converted Saiga, side folding stock).
Ironically, my next project will be an AR-15 pistol, though I'm not sure whether I want to go with 5.56 or another caliber (requires more research).
-
This topic is a perfect example of quiet/self moderation. Thanks guys.
-
Rail I don't think he was trying to be a smart ass with you. I read it more like a "Yeah, right."
^This.
Evidently I need to flesh out my posts a bit. When I said, "SBR or no point" I was speaking in terms of practicality. Rifle caliber pistols are good for stuff like this:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/DavePAL84/ak/1-1.jpg)
They can be a ton of fun (pictured is an 8" AKM I built back before commercial pistol receivers were available; to do it legally you had to roll your own) but isn't the top of practicality.
Here's a pic of me demonstrating forward sling tension from 06' /w a shitty Keltec
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/DavePAL84/new/plr.jpg)
Wow, check out the magwell grabbing! Boy, times sure have changed :D
Yes, adding a sling and providing forward tension can help with stability but it's nowhere near the control of even an unslung stocked longarm. That's what I meant with my second comment.
I 100% absolutely guarantee that if you tested drills (such as a Viking Tactics 2x2x2 or an el' Presidente) yourself using a shot clock between the two, they would be worlds apart in terms of speed and accuracy. This is simple and you can test it yourself. Don't always listen to the dude on the internet because the shot clock cannot lie (the shooter can sandbag, of course but then they're only lying to themselves [invariably to justify purchases]).
What forward sling tension does is allow it to be better than with no sling at all. It's not magic, it's a stop gap that makes the pistol marginally more useful.
Raildriver- Going full retard isn't always the best recommendation. I'd encourage thicker skin in the future.
-
Raildriver- Going full retard isn't always the best recommendation. I'd encourage thicker skin in the future.
Jesus Dave,
You are one sexy bastard and funny too!
Oh and everyone calm down we are trying to learn here.
-
Raildriver- Going full retard isn't always the best recommendation. I'd encourage thicker skin in the future.
Jesus Dave,
You are one sexy bastard and funny too!
Oh and everyone calm down we are trying to learn here.
:o
Bromance?
-
Dam am I the only one that isent a scary Beast with tats?
-
the Draco with a sling or not... isnt nearly as stable to shoot as a weapon with a stock... because you go from having 4 points of contact (cheek, shoulder, right hand, left hand) to just two points of contact (both hands).. and a sling wont make up for those two loss of contacts on the gun. just wont.... not even close....
and Dave i dont see anything wrong with grabbing the magwell on such a short weapon [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
-Kenny
-
Dam am I the only one that isent a scary Beast with tats?
lol, don't worry young blood. I don't have any tats either. Just some scars I try to keep covered. Although, I've been thinking about a bunny rabbit tat to soften my look up. But my wife's against it. She thinks I want it so I can start some shit with anyone who makes fun of it. Not true, those days are in the past.
I just happen to like bunny rabbits. :)
Anyway, back to the Draco's.
-
Dam am I the only one that isent a scary Beast with tats?
Yes. >:D
-
Dam am I the only one that isent a scary Beast with tats?
Yes. >:D
lol, 505 You've got a little mean streak running there don'tcha? lol
-
Dam am I the only one that isent a scary Beast with tats?
Yes. >:D
In case you havent noticed dressing like the devil is faggy.
-
Dam am I the only one that isent a scary Beast with tats?
Yes. >:D
In case you havent noticed dressing like the devil is faggy.
I suspect you wouldn't call the devil faggy if you met up with him face to face. lol
And we need to tie this back in to Draco's so I'll add that I hear the devil carries one.
-
(http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/20913/2993462160104322648S600x600Q85.jpg)
I wouldn't call this novelty by an stretch of the imagination... this is all buidness.
-
except maybe dude's headband.
-
([url]http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/20913/2993462160104322648S600x600Q85.jpg[/url])
I wouldn't call this novelty by an stretch of the imagination... this is all buidness.
Do some drills with a shot clock when compared to an unslung fixed-stock weapon. Report back ;)
-
Dam am I the only one that isent a scary Beast with tats?
Yes. >:D
In case you havent noticed dressing like the devil is faggy.
I suspect you wouldn't call the devil faggy if you met up with him face to face. lol
And we need to tie this back in to Draco's so I'll add that I hear the devil carries one.
Dood I should message you one of my papers.
-
([url]http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/20913/2993462160104322648S600x600Q85.jpg[/url])
I wouldn't call this novelty by an stretch of the imagination... this is all buidness.
lol This pic is great! It looks like a still shot from a Rambo movie! That bandanna is the frosting on the cake. lol
You're the man 505! Give those gooks hell! lol
-
I've got 18 tats, but they're not as large or as IN YOUR FACE as Dave_M's :))
I like the photos you provided. I'll see about getting some pics or video next time I'm at the range. I'm guessing the gun you were shooting in the top pic didn't have a muzzle brake (or only had a slant brake). Some muzzle brakes make a big difference in recoil (the slot brake was a very noticeable upgrade from a muzzle nut in terms of recoil suppression) so the gun recoils similar to an AR with a standard A2 brake (ie, not much at all). It's not just this or just that part that makes a gun work well for the person shooting it, it's a combination of features. The changes I made to my draco were made because I saw a shortcoming in the design as it came to me, and I thought about it and did what worked for me after I shot it stock a few mags. I slimmed the handguard down a lot, and made a much more positive hand stop at the forward end to prevent my hand sliding off and getting shot or burned during rapid fire. I installed a more comfortable grip for better control. I added the sling to help with weapon handling, stability and retention (since I can't add a stock legally without $200 and wait time), and I added the muzzle brake for a louder muzzle blast (what can I say, I'm a jerk!), recoil suppression, and a proper fireball. I like my gun, and what I've done to it. I do plan to SBR it in the future (I like the red jacket billet stock), but can't do it for several reasons right now.
-
I've got 18 tats, but they're not as large or as IN YOUR FACE as Dave_M's :))
I have no idea how many tat's I have. When people ask I tell them, "I only have one--I'm just not done with it yet" :D
I like the photos you provided. I'll see about getting some pics or video next time I'm at the range. I'm guessing the gun you were shooting in the top pic didn't have a muzzle brake (or only had a slant brake). Some muzzle brakes make a big difference in recoil (the slot brake was a very noticeable upgrade from a muzzle nut in terms of recoil suppression) so the gun recoils similar to an AR with a standard A2 brake (ie, not much at all).
Travis Haley did a similar video about muzzle devices. Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUbxO3jkJxc
-
Shiiiit, ya'll have only seen my partial left sleeve in these pics.. my right sleeve has been done for years..
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1221/DavePAL84/range/ak-dave.jpg)
-
That wasn't me in the pic I posted...
Here I am (from @thatguyisms on http://youtube.com/user/thatguyisms)
(http://iambecomedeathdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/capture1.jpg)
-
If I offload the Sig Socom and FAL AFTER I get the 74 and a few K in rounds. I'll probably send in for an SBR stamp. for mine.
-
Shiiiit, ya'll have only seen my partial left sleeve in these pics.. my right sleeve has been done for years..
([url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1221/DavePAL84/range/ak-dave.jpg[/url])
link fail mate.
-
Shiiiit, ya'll have only seen my partial left sleeve in these pics.. my right sleeve has been done for years..
([url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1221/DavePAL84/range/ak-dave.jpg[/url])
link fail mate.
Eh, doesn't matter either way; just a range pic. Let me find another
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/DavePAL84/range/AK-1111.jpg)
-
Holy shit a crazy tattooed guy with a gun! RUNNNN! [url=http://www.freesmileys.or