Author Topic: Black Powder Help?  (Read 1062 times)

CrookedSights

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Black Powder Help?
« on: November 06, 2012, 09:36:50 PM »
I have a CVA Frontier that I fixed up that was in ruff shape, now I just need to know about powders and how much to use. Any of you into BP that could school me without going into too much of the technical shit? Thanks.

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Re: Black Powder Help?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2012, 10:13:56 PM »
I do a lot of BP shooting.

Can't help you with your frontier its all about what you want and how much your willing to practice and modify. BP is really about the person. There is so many different options. Just DO NOT over pressure your shit. Especially with older weapons!

 
Example.
My Ruger Old Army uses 27.5 grains of FFF BP and a 220 grain conical bullet with a wonder wad and she will drill a two liter at 100 yards.

My White Mountain Carbine uses 82.5 grains of FFF BP and a 350 grain mini ball with a 137 grain round ball chasing in the pocket.... I mean did I say that? Oops. Just kidding on the round ball chaser. That would be illegal.
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Offline gapatriot

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Re: Black Powder Help?
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2012, 11:05:11 PM »
you can get pre pressed black powder pellets, for a .50 cal. I got them but the wrong primers for my bp gun. I never had a chance to play with it much because my shop got broke into and the meth heads took the bp gun and some tools (dumb asses left the shit actually worth something).

CrookedSights

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Re: Black Powder Help?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2012, 11:52:09 PM »
My dad's got some of the pressed pellets, I just don't want the thing taking a shit in my face. Sorry to hear about your shop bro.

Offline gapatriot

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Re: Black Powder Help?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2012, 11:57:09 PM »
Eh, it was years ago. Shit happens thats just society these days.

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Re: Black Powder Help?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2012, 03:43:36 AM »
All I can offer is advice you may already know.

Obtain a manual for your rifle, they can often be found on-line or from the manufacturer, it will tell you the typical loads and powder types that are safe to use.  Most modern BP rifles have a generous margin for safety in regards to powder loads.  More powder is not always "better", there is a sweet spot of specific load and bullet type/powder type/weight/patch combination you can figure out with extensive testing/trial and error.  You also need to figure out the twist rate, as found in the manual, but also can be figured out (with a reasonable margin of error) using a cleaning rod and tight patch counting the number of twists per inch.  The twist rate helps determine if the barrel is intended for either ball or mini-ball/sabot loads.  The twist rate will determine which type of bullet is most accurate in the barrel.  Some twist rates will make a mini-ball or sabot to be unstable in flight while a regular ball will fly fine and vis versa.  There are advantages to using mini-ball or sabots for hunting  and longer ranges, and there are advantages to shooting ball and patch as well.

If you are really interested in BP other than plinking, go find your local Rendezvous club/group/shoot and attend a shoot to learn.  While the skills to shoot well are similar, the proper safety procedures and cleaning techniques are very different than with modern smokeless cartridge rifles.  Although I seldom shoot BP regularly these days, the historical significance is very interesting, and it can open up opportunities to specific hunting seasons, and I find it fun to shoot.  (then again, I get a kick out of shooting anything from atalatl, bow, slingshot, air gun, BP, and modern)  I hunt with BP when I already have meat in the freezer, and only after I cannot get drawn for a bow hunt.

I find it a novelty hobby in the scope of "survival", as there are better options in regards to the spectrum of both modern and primitive skills.  The great thing about learning to shoot BP is that the refined skills developed for good marksmanship will improve your abilities of both hunting or with shooting a modern rifle.  "One shot one kill" is truly a priority while hunting with BP, and stalking/still hunting is a much closer ranged technique than modern rifles.  Also, poor trigger control and sloppy follow-through is much less forgiving with a BP rifle.  In short, if you can wield a BP rifle well, you will likely shoot a modern rifle with great skill.

Regards,

Walker


I concur.

I've been shooting BP almost my entire life. Look at me. I'm a bad ass. lol

But seriously I am.  ::)

Anywho. Go out with your minimum load and some good caps. I use #11 German Caps
1. They are really tight on my nipple. ( Mountain, TG, GAP, EJR, STFU )
2. They are hot, like really hot. When you need your load to go off. Put a German cap on your nipple. ( Mountain, TG, GAP, EJR, STFU! )

Next your was is really important, Well. In revolvers it is. If your just using a rifle it really doesn't matter to much. Just be consistent. Pick up this product.  http://www.franksgreatoutdoors.com/thompson-center-bore-butter-5oz-natural-scent.html?origin=gmc&gclid=CLCTmOO6vLMCFQUFnQodREEAEw

It makes things so much more smooth. Do Not! use crisco and other stupid products like that. That shit melts and gets all over the place and its fucking nasty!
Use toilet bowl wax. That shit works fantastically in the Florida Swamps. It will work everywhere else as well.

These are some little hints I use. Hope you have fun with your BP rifle man. I love my BP stuff.  [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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CrookedSights

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Re: Black Powder Help?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2012, 05:34:14 AM »
I have the manual, it was a DIY kit so all it really has in it is instructions on how to build it. Nothing on twist rate, powder loads (except for the warranty voids if recommended loads are exceeded) or ball vs mini ball. I do have a few balls and a Lee mini ball mold. I will say I've never come across a heavier trigger.

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Black Powder Help?
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2012, 08:06:12 AM »
CrookedSights,

I do and have done allot of shooting and hunting with cap locks and flint locks. Here are a few questions that I have:

1) What is the caliber of your CVA Frontier? I assume it is .50 cal but there were a few .54 calibers out there.
2) What is the rate of twist? I assume it is a 1:48 twist but its better not to assume. There were some CVA's out there sporting a
    1:60 twist.

I am going to assume that you have a 1:48 twist barrel and it is .50 caliber. With that said, you have two options. Option one is you can use round ball & patch or option two you can use a conical bullet.

One of my black powder rifles is very similar to your assumed rifle and here is what my rifle like:

Round ball and patch:
80 grains of 3F Goex black powder, a .022 saliva lubed patch with a .480 round ball. I use a #11 cap to ignite it. http://www.hornady.com/store/50-Cal-.480-Lead-Balls/

Conical Bullet:
I like 100 grains of 3F Goex black powder using Ball-ets by Hornady as they seem to work better with the 1:48 twist barrel. http://www.hornady.com/store/50-Cal-240-gr-PA-Conical/  I will tell you that this kicks like a mule

I hunt deer with a round ball and patch which is more then enough to bring down a deer with one shot.

CVA's are notorious with heavy weighted triggers. If your trigger falls into this category you contact Dixon's Muzzleloading Shop in Kempton, PA. They have new drop in triggers or they will rework yours.

Now, IMO, each rifle barrel likes acts differently. I suggest that you start with 50 grains of 3F BP shooting at 25 yards. Shoot three rounds, cleaning your barrel between each round fired. Just wet a cleaning patch with plain water and run it up and down your barrel a few times followed by a dry patch to soak up any H20 left. Don't worry about bulls eye hitting you are only looking for groups at this point. Adjusting sights will come later.

Increase charges by 5 grains each round of three shots until you get to the point where the groups start to spread out. Once that happens you have determined the charge your rifle likes.

Now you will need to adjust your sights for the 10X ring. There is plenty of articles on the internet on how to do this.

To clean your barrel after a day at the range: Unscrew your lock from the stock, drive out the forend pin to remove the rifle from the stock and put a pipe cleaner in the nipple. Fill up the barrel with warm water (NO SOAP!) and let it sit for a couple of minutes. Then pull the pipe cleaner out and pour the water out of the barrel. Then take out the nipple and stick the breached hook end in a cup or so of water, run a patch down the barrel and draw up the water in the cup like a piston and repeat a couple of times.

Once you do that, run patches down the barrel till they come out dry. Put some anti-seize grease on the nipple threads and screw the nipple back in. Run Bore Butter, or Wonder 1000 down the barrel (DO NOT USE PETROLEUM BASED PRODUCTS!) to prevent rusting. I have heard that allot of folks now are using Frog Lube now.

I always follow up a day or two later with another lubing of the barrel.

There is my 2?. If you would like any other info I am as far away as a PM or the phone. :-)
 
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CrookedSights

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Re: Black Powder Help?
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2012, 09:29:21 AM »
Johny you're awesome bud.  [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co It's a .50 cal. I can't figure out the twist rate but I read somewhere  that they made different barrel lengths and mine is 24'' if that makes a difference.

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Black Powder Help?
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2012, 12:49:55 PM »
Thank you CrookedSights, no worries.

I am pretty sure you have a 1:48 twist.

To check your twist:

> Put the ramrod down the barrel with a patch.
> Once you reach the breach put a mark on the ramrod in front of the front sight
> Now pull it out slowly and it will probably make a half turn with a 24" barrel. If I am right, you have a 1:48" turn.

Good luck.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 09:09:26 AM by JohnyMac »
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Offline Outonowhere

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Re: Black Powder Help?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2012, 11:39:11 PM »


Anywho. Go out with your minimum load and some good caps. I use #11 German Caps
1. They are really tight on my nipple. ( Mountain, TG, GAP, EJR, STFU )
2. They are hot, like really hot. When you need your load to go off. Put a German cap on your nipple. ( Mountain, TG, GAP, EJR, STFU! )



LMAO You are REALLY into this kinky stuff, huh Rvr? 

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