Author Topic: LP-OP & Hide-sites  (Read 4663 times)

Offline WhiskeyJack

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LP-OP & Hide-sites
« on: September 27, 2011, 10:07:43 PM »
LP-OP & Hide-sites

   This article will concentrate on the Listening Post (LP) Observation Post (OP) and the Hide-Site.
These are sites designated for early warning and intelligence gathering. All three of these sites are very similar, in fact the LP and OP are generally co-located (with a few notable exceptions). These sites are integral in defense and Information gathering.

   We will start with the LP-OP. The purpose of the LP-OP is perimeter security. When used correctly this type of position can effectively provide early warning, information and some over-watch. The location of the LP-OP can vary. The location of this position is dictated by terrain and the area of interest you wish observed. The LP-OP can be on your boundary or well past it. You will most likely have to provide some security for your resources. The LP-OP position can provide eyes on an area and the ability to free up a full security detail. You can have a QRF ( Quick Reaction Force) ready to assemble from their day to-to day duties, to protect the areas your LP-OP is watching. The LP-OP is generally a security designated site. You can place them around your perimeter to simply watch for any potential threats and fill gaps in your security patrols. The LP-OP is a great tool, due to the fact that it does not require large amounts of manpower to function effectively. Ideally you would want a four man team but two is a good number. If your really light on manpower you can use one. but that could be dangerous due to the simple fact that its a boring assignment. The threat of falling asleep is ever present. Some things to consider when choosing the site of an LP-OP.

   The area of interest:
What is your objective? Are you watching an avenue of approach for potential threats?
Are you watching over  a resource like a water source, crop field or livestock. These factors may help you decide what size element you want placed in the site.

   Terrain, available cover and concealment. Distance from target area and escape and evasion routes, back to your lines.

Some equipment that can be useful in the LP-OP
   Optics of any kind
   Night Vision
   Thermal Detection Equipment
      Communication Equipment
   Directional Amplification Microphones
   Radio Frequency Scanners
Ok so there are some fairly sophisticated items on that list. But the nitty gritty is you just need eyes and ears. During the day the position is a Observation Post and at Night its a Listening post. Anything extra is gravy.

   The LP-OP can be set up in a myriad of environments. From the woods to deserts, urban and suburban, mountains or plains. If you require a presence in the area the LP-OP could be a viable option for your group. A few rules to keep in mind for employing this type of position. Observe without being observed. Have a viable escape route. Be prepared to abandon the site on a moments notice if detected or an unknown element is approaching your position. Keep radio chatter to a minimum. Speak in whispers with your team mates. And change out your watch during times of low visibility when possible. It is important that anyone else watching the area not know the exact location of these sites. And sanitation. You wont be able to wander 20 or 30 meters away to take a leak or dig a cat hole. You are going to have to devise a method of sanitation that you will carry in and out of your site. I'm going to let you work on that one your self. But ill give you a hint. Think saw dust.
Try to follow the 5 S's of concealment when setting up a site like this.

Shape
Shine
Silhouette
Shadow
Spacing
Study these concepts of concealment prior to employing a LP-OP or Hide-Site. Spacing may not be the most important issue with a fixed position. But don't ignore it. If you are unfamiliar with these concepts take some time to study and practice concealment in as many environments as possible. It will increase your chances of successfully employing an effective LP-OP or Hide-Site.

   Just a couple more tips. Cover and concealment are key. Spend some time on it and it will pay off.
If you end up using any kind of structure for this type of site. Stay out of the damn windows. You need to post your observer back from any openings and use the shadows to hide your presence. You can create artificial shadows with sheer cloth set back from the opening. Don't just rely on windows or doors, you can look through a hole in the wall just as easily. If your LP-OP is out and away from your perimeter, try to have your escape route offer concealment as well. If you are spotted leaving, you may benefit from having prepared delaying devices placed along your route of egress. If the group you are fleeing is aggressive and gives chase, they may be persuaded to slow down and rethink their options.(I'm not advocating anything, I'm just sayin) Noise and light discipline are a must. In simplest terms shut the hell up and don't light that Marlboro. You really don't want to place this site along or near the easiest route of travel. that would be like laying out a red carpet for someone to walk right up on you. And of course sanitation, sanitation, sanitation. You may be there for a while. So with that simple overview, we come to the hide site.

   The hide-site position would be utilized well away from your community. It is an observation post to be sure, but it will probably not be as well prepared as a static OP. The reason is, you and your team could be on a patrol, and come across something you wish to observe for a period of time. Or you are going to a pre-determined target area to gather information. You will most likely be in unfamiliar or hostile territory when employing this type of position so you will not have the benefit of preplanning its construction or doing a full area reconnaissance. The hide site is just what it sounds like. A site to hide in. As with the LP-OP you want to think cover and concealment but with this position you will not have any support to rely on, so cover becomes one of the most important factors when choosing a hide.

   Now the hide site is a little bit different from the LP-OP as it will most likely be hiding a team sized element. And it is not relegated to one actual position. I have been in hides that a team member would crawl through a hole in the brush to get to the observation position, while the rest of the team occupied the main site. Like the LP-OP you should do your best to observe the basics discussed above. But a few other points should be given serious though when going into a hide site.

   Map reconnaissance:
You will need to do a thorough map recon prior to entering the area of operation. Identify the target area. and at least three potential hide sites on paper before embarking on the operation.

   Entry:
You should try to time your entrance into the AO to utilize cover of darkness. Your other options are weather as cover. Heavy rain, fog, mist anything that drops visibility to a low enough level to cover your movements with out seriously hindering your ability to navigate the area. (I don't rely on weather but I will exploit it).

   Escape and Evasion:
Preplan your escape and the situations that would cause your team to bug out.

   Rotation and improvement:
While in a site you will want to very quietly improve defenses. Under cover of darkness you can quietly dig fighting holes for cover and improve camouflage. If the observation target is sending out patrols. It may behoove you to rotate your position to an area just patrolled by the ones you are watching. this may help you avoid detection. Just remember only move when you have the concealment to do so(i.e. If you are on the south side and your team observes the target group patrol the east side and then move north. When it gets dark you may consider Moving into the freshly patrolled area). Keep in mind this method is used when you intend to remain in the AO for a longer period of time.

   Know when to go:
The most effective recons are the ones that do not alert the observed to your presence. Don't leave anything behind that would indicate someone was there( Including body waste. Bag it and bury it and conceal the bury. Or carry it out with you). It could negate your information on that group, as they may change their routine to counter any further incursions into their AO. If you get lucky you can use weather to cover your egress. Heavy rain or winds can wash out your tracks, and snow can conceal them. If you are getting close to your mission end time and you are graced with weather, exploit it if possible. Or leave under the cover of darkness. Try to clear signs of your time there.

   Well folks, we have covered some of the rules and points that should be taken into consideration if you wish to utilize these types of sites. As always what I have put down here is not the end all be all. I strongly suggest doing some more research on the subject to determine how this information best helps you and yours. And I invite any and all contributions to this discussion. I freaking mean it guys. I know we got vets hear and you have some shit to add. Add it damn-it. I'm getting frigging carpel tunnel over here.
Thanks for reading.



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Offline Frosty

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Re: LP-OP & Hide-sites
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2011, 01:49:41 PM »
Another great post man.


If you have an LP/OP on your perimeter, would it be wise to, if needed, use it as a fighting position as well? Obviously you would have to harden it to that of a fighting position, but other than that I don't see anything else that would have to change. Maybe I'm missing something, but that's just me lol.
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Offline WhiskeyJack

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Re: LP-OP & Hide-sites
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2011, 03:04:45 PM »
hey frosty. the lp-op can be used as as a fighting positin. yes you would want it to be close to your lines. and you would want to have a well drilled QRF to move to support the position. you can even have prepared fighting positions for your defenders to move into that along with your LP-OP would form a defensive line. having defensive positions set up to support the lp-op position and a well drilled and rehersed defensive plan could be very helpful in a static defense. the lp-op is generally a forward position in military ops. but yes by all means make it fit your groups needs. sry this reply is sloppy im doin it on my phone..
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 08:04:37 AM by WhiskeyJack »
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Offline EJR914

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Re: LP-OP & Hide-sites
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2011, 06:07:05 AM »
You the man!  Another great post, been enjoying the "getting nasty" posts as well.

Offline mountainredneck2051

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Re: LP-OP & Hide-sites
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2011, 08:14:55 AM »
snow is the problem i got up here, and if you got feet like i do your gonna lave tracks like a friggin snowshoe  [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at

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Offline WhiskeyJack

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Re: LP-OP & Hide-sites
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2011, 07:35:36 AM »
Snow is a major factor when trying to remain undetected. When you have snow on the ground you almost have to wait for fresh snowfall to cover any tracks you may leave. And i don't think anyone wants to wait for the snow gods to smile upon us whilst sitting in a hide site freezing our asses off. If the snow is on the ground then you may have to make a decision as to weather you should leave under cover of darkness and hope no one comes across your trail(Not Likely). Or you could lay false trails. You don't have to take a Bee line back to your AO. If your feeling froggy you can lay several miles of tracks that head in the wrong direction. And when the opportunity or timing is right, then start back home. Not too many people out there are going to have the patients to follow a trail away from their warmth and safety for too long. But I'm sure you know your terrain best Mountain. I'm willing to bet you have a trick or two up your sleeve. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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Offline Combollian

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Re: LP-OP & Hide-sites
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2012, 05:57:23 AM »
Stay as low as possible, don't sit against small trees, minimal movement, make sure even if you're not on watch your still facing out, minimal gear out (always stow to go), don't collect live cam near your hide site, replace live cam often(before it dies), rest whenever you can, minimal talking, always have an 'actions on' plan that everyone knows, always have an alternate location scouted out if you need to relocate, position your hide so you are able to observe the track you used to occupy it(fish hook), clear leaves and sticks from your personal position(comfort and noise discipline reasons) always refurbish your hide to its original condition when you leave it and finally always have a security watch.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
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Offline Fuel Hogg

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Re: LP-OP & Hide-sites
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2012, 03:51:55 PM »
I wish TCS was still on here he was a cav.scout for the army ....thay are taught by the pros on LP/OP and how to gather intell
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Offline Kentactic

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Re: LP-OP & Hide-sites
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2012, 05:14:43 PM »
Keep in mind anyone who knows what to look for will spot your tracks easily in any terrain similar to what an untrained eye would do in snow. unless you can fly you can be tracked in any terrain on earth aside from horizontal solid rock faces.
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Offline mountainredneck2051

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Re: LP-OP & Hide-sites
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2012, 04:56:46 PM »
Keep in mind anyone who knows what to look for will spot your tracks easily in any terrain similar to what an untrained eye would do in snow. unless you can fly you can be tracked in any terrain on earth aside from horizontal solid rock faces.

pretty much you need to be walking in on your lp/op from the spot you'll be watching most
cause atleast in my woods there is no hiding from guys like me who been hunting all their lives for subsistence not just cause its deer season
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Offline Jeremy Knauff

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Re: LP-OP & Hide-sites
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2013, 09:35:07 PM »
snow is the problem i got up here, and if you got feet like i do your gonna lave tracks like a friggin snowshoe  [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at

It might not be a perfect solution for you, but in Norway we would attach a pine branch to the back of our deuce gear. The needles would drag through the shoe (or ski) tracks making them less visible, and even light falling snow would cover the drag marks from the needles in a heartbeat. That may or may not work in your area?it just depends on how much snow you get. Up there, it snowed pretty much all the time, so it worked well.

Offline Colombo

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Re: LP-OP & Hide-sites
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2013, 10:51:47 PM »
Good thread and I'll second the necropost with these little tidbits...

http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/files/entryimages/1014_Carpet_Shoes_copy.jpg

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/news_releases/local/2013_nr/may13/05082013_2.xml

A good tracker will spot this fast but there's really not a lot of those and any offering that brings old Murphy to your side with a friendly smile on his face...
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