Unchained Preppers
General Category => Security & Survival => Topic started by: Reaver on January 18, 2012, 04:38:59 PM
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Alright. Here is the delima fellas.
I count my father in my crew, he will be down here shortly [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co But the thing I run into is this. He builds AR's knows them loves them. He's an AR guy.
I'm thinking about switching out to the AR as my primary. Mostly because of logistical reason. I have a smith. Parts, ammo consolidation, it just makes sense to switch out to the AR at this point in time. We both stock ammo for it. We both stock mags for it. If we both run it I feel things will be much much easier to control. Prepping will be easier and we can get more things done, better & faster.
I'm not saying I'm getting rid of my AK's but I'm saying it may be wise for the both of us to consolidate and organize on 1 platform instead of 2
Am I making sense. I need your help guys no flak just input. Help a prepper out
RvR.
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I...
...not
mmm...
...say
smart assed....
uhhh...
comments...
must restrain self...
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I...
...not
mmm...
...say
smart assed....
uhhh...
comments...
must restrain self...
Really guy? Come on man. Input
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I'd say it depends on what the other potential members of your group will be using. Also, how many of those members might be female and what weapon they are likely to be using. In ours it will be mostly 22lr. If you haven't set up plans and strategies already I suggest that "most" females will be more comfortable shooting the AR. Although obviously, they would learn the AK quicker.
Even at that if they are flinching every time they pull the trigger on an AK then they will just be adding to the weapon's accuracy issues. ( Yes, I admit that an AK isn't as accurate as an AR. Although, someone who gets hit in the gut instead of the chest isn't going to be thanking his lucky stars the shooter had an AK instead of an AR.)
If after evaluating those things the AR makes sense. I'd go that way.
Edit: Note that I strongly feel that "every" member of the group should learn and have the opportunity to practice with every weapon the group has regardless of what their primary will be.
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Really both are excellent designs with their own strong points. I doubt I could tell you much as you've already had more actual hostile world experience with the ar family and know its habits and needs.
Add in all the points you've already mentioned, I think you know your answer better than others. If you have doubts keep an ak or 2 around just in case and for familiarity.
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Roger that guys. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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I have relayed this story before.
My wife hated to shoot my rifles until she fired my AR. Now she has her own and is excited when I say, "lets go shooting."
On another note: There are some great conversion units you can use in your AR that shoots .22LR. I love mine (Although mags are pricey). I will go through 500 rounds in a day and spend $20-.
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I say keep the AK's, but build a KISS AR. Doesn't need to be anything fancy, just something that'll work.
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I'd say go with a Sig Sauer chambered in 5.56. Guarantee you won't be disappointed.
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Having a group standard that everyone is using is pretty cool. I love the idea but no one that is going to be coming to me for help will atually step up and start prepping yet alone recognize any attemp to standardize equipment.
The brass tacks of the issue is that quality ARs are much more reliable than anyone wants to give them credit for and quality AKs are much more accurate than anyone would ever admit. So you are not going to be hurting for a good rifle with either choice and standardization is your friend. Not to mention which platform you have real world experience with.
Embrase it, oh and welcome to the darkside!
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i outghtaa woop your ass reaver, hell we all should go over and give him a blanket party.
but yeah its a good idea
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TG... I more like a spy to the darkside.
I can't really be welcome to the darkside because I have a lot more love for the AK and I will always admit that.
The only things making me turn this way is. Funds, knowledge, & equipment.
If I have two bolts, two firing pins, and two BCG's.
Long term prepping makes sinse to grab that weapon. Because if it goes down I can repair it.
Granted the AK most likely won't go down. Eventually stuff breaks.
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Also note that.
If the situation where viceversa ( AK parts, mags, ammo, knowledge & tools ) the situation would be the same except. I'd be keep my beloved primary and my pops would have to step into the light.
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Im mostly an AK guy but i pieced together an AR and I love it.
They really are great rifles, just different.
Plus i like having a gun for each of the two most common intermediate cartridge types in the world.
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i really think a standardized weapon system is the way to go, i do have standardized pistols but rifles just cost too much for me to get our group armed and standardized
S&W M&P9
the official sidearm of the mountain crew [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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My personal view is that if you have a infrastructure that supports the AR platform then standardizing may be the best thing to do. You have a gunsmith, mags, and it is a common rnd in the US. the only draw back I see is the extra maintenance the system requires. and that argument is quickly trumped by the fact that your well trained on the AR system.
Having the AK as a backup platform is great. Its a less common rnd in the US.
But also if you come across people who you would let join your group. the AK is the better platform for someone with little to no experience. You can train someone on an AK allot faster than an AR.
Hey man you know me! I love my AK. but group consolidation is a worthy goal. The AR does offer some logistical advantages to your group. I say consolidate to the AR. But keep that bad boy AK in case you have to go do the Swamp Thing. That's where AK wins all day
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I would think training for the AK would be more difficult, especially for women and children, then the AR. Just an opinion.
I thought my wife how to reload the AR in one sitting, I'm not sure teaching her how to reload the AK would be quiet as simple, as there is one more step, and they have to rock the Mag forward, instead of just straight up and in.
Thoughts?
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I would think training for the AK would be more difficult, especially for women and children, then the AR. Just an opinion.
I thought my wife how to reload the AR in one sitting, I'm not sure teaching her how to reload the AK would be quiet as simple, as there is one more step, and they have to rock the Mag forward, instead of just straight up and in.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
(http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt331/juba811/akchild.jpg)
Nuff Said.
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"...but group consolidation is a worthy goal..."
Very well put WJ. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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I would think training for the AK would be more difficult, especially for women and children, then the AR. Just an opinion.
I thought my wife how to reload the AR in one sitting, I'm not sure teaching her how to reload the AK would be quiet as simple, as there is one more step, and they have to rock the Mag forward, instead of just straight up and in.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
([url]http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt331/juba811/akchild.jpg[/url])
Nuff Said.
My first thought is I don't want to be standing to his side when he tries a mag dump :o
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I would think training for the AK would be more difficult, especially for women and children, then the AR. Just an opinion.
I thought my wife how to reload the AR in one sitting, I'm not sure teaching her how to reload the AK would be quiet as simple, as there is one more step, and they have to rock the Mag forward, instead of just straight up and in.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
([url]http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt331/juba811/akchild.jpg[/url])
Nuff Said.
I'm sure I can find some little African-American kid to pose with my AR if I wanted to, now do you want to actually discuss anything?
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Ok EJR your right.
AR 15's are easier to train on than an AK that's why its been done SO much more for the past 50 years. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
MSSI ( Mandatory Sarcastic Smiley Insert )
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Ok EJR your right.
AR 15's are easier to train on than an AK that's why its been done SO much more for the past 50 years.
If they were cheaper, more reliable, and more abundant, I'm sure they would have been.
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Historical the AK platform has proven the easier of the two platforms to work with. this includes general function, maintenance, and gunsmithing. When training someone on a platform, we have to think they have no background whatsoever. you can train someone with no knowledge on an AK in a little over a week. that includes Marksmenship maintenance, and general function. The US military spends more than Three weeks in the same process. Ease of use is one of the factors that has made the AK the most popular weapon system in the world. I cant trust that every person in my community would effectively be able to use an AR to its full potential or keep it shooting properly. But i can trust that every AK i put into the hands of my community members is just about as idiot proof as it gets.
Just the general maintenance alone is far more complicated in the AR. Now add to that a field environment that someone can loose all the little pieces of the AR blot system in..... I know we keep having the argument about which is the better platform, and i think they both have great pros and few cons. I have to say as far as training up noobs. I would rather train em on the AK over the AR. And that's not just my .02 cents. that statement has allot of historical fact to back it up.
And one more little comparison as to the mindset of the two nations that produced these two awesome systems.
Durring the spacerace. the US spent over one million dollars to develop a pen that would write in zero gravity.
The USSR sent up a pencil. Sometimes the simplest answer is the best answer. and as far as equipping new people with no training. The AK is the superior choice in the matter.
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Let's see, how to reload an AK vs. AR.
AK first.
1. Pull the trigger to find out that your AK magazine is out of ammo.
2. Rotate AK and check the breach, to make sure its not a failure.
3. Rotate AK, take weak hand, grab a fresh magazine.
4. Take weak hand and new magazine up to the rifle, push release with thumb, retain empty mag with the same hand you have the new mag in and push the magazine foreward.
5. Seat new magazine with it tilted foward and rock it back in to you hear a click.
6. Retain empty magazine in dump pouch.
7. Reach under the AK with your weak, (Or over, or rotate AK) and charge the weapon
AR
You feel the AR's bolt stick to the back.
1. You rotate your AR so you can see in the breach and make sure its not a failure, the gun is empty.
2. You rotate your AR over so that you can easily get to the magazine with your weak hand.
3. You bring your weak hand up to catch the magazine as your take your strong side hand and push the release dropping the mag.
4. Move your weak hand and magazine to your dump pouch.
5. Grab a new magazine and jam it straight in.
6. Tap the ping pong paddle and you're loaded.
Sounds a hell of a lost easier to reload to me. Especially, when trying to teach all that to women and children.
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WhiskeyJack wrote:
Durring the spacerace. the US spent over one million dollars to develop a pen that would write in zero gravity.
The USSR sent up a pencil. Sometimes the simplest answer is the best answer. and as far as equipping new people with no training.
IMO, simple is always better. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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I would think training for the AK would be more difficult, especially for women and children, then the AR. Just an opinion.
I thought my wife how to reload the AR in one sitting, I'm not sure teaching her how to reload the AK would be quiet as simple, as there is one more step, and they have to rock the Mag forward, instead of just straight up and in.
Thoughts?
The AR system does have a better ergonimic desighn than the AK. But that is only one factor of many. when i think of putting a system into someones hands im thinking of the the toatal package. Maintenance, durability, the level of proficiancy the person is at. Yes.... the AR does have an eisier mag change. But the AR also has a more complex procedure for clearing jams and FTF. the AK is the easier system to clear as it only has one simple procedure to use(Rack the slide HARD). We could spend a week on this topic alone.
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I've got no beef with the AK because I want one myself, I was just talking about RELOADING alone, which in a perfect world, is the only thing you really have to work with in a perfect hypothetical fire fight, because there is no worry of FTF, and you certainly are not going to have to worry about cleaning it, or clearing jams, or anything else in a perfect hypothetical fight. In a real world, there are FTF, jams, and you do have to clean it after a firefight.
As long as you have good mags, you clean the firearm and mags, and don't get mud or dust in the breach or mags, FTF, jams, and the like are not going to be as common as to make a huge difference in the firefight. However, I think speed and quickness and ease of reload is an advantage.
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Yeah i have no beef with the AR i want one myself. but i have allot of training on the system and I'm very comfortable with it. The comparisons of Ar's and AKs is still the old apples and oranges. In a perfect world with unlimited ammo and propper logistical support, and a solid training program. I would prolly advocate Ar's for all. But I live in AK land where the buses run late the water is contaminated and the unemployed can afford the money for a good AR. I will own a nice AR one of these days soon. But for the unwashed masses who don't know shit about guns. I say the AK is the right choice to get started with. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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I've got no beef with the AK because I want one myself, I was just talking about RELOADING alone, which in a perfect world, is the only thing you really have to work with in a perfect hypothetical fire fight, because there is no worry of FTF, and you certainly are not going to have to worry about cleaning it, or clearing jams, or anything else in a perfect hypothetical fight. In a real world, there are FTF, jams, and you do have to clean it after a firefight.
As long as you have good mags, you clean the firearm and mags, and don't get mud or dust in the breach or mags, FTF, jams, and the like are not going to be as common as to make a huge difference in the firefight. However, I think speed and quickness and ease of reload is an advantage.
I think your speaking out of biased opinion towards your AR and Ignorance to the AK
What your speaking of is a weak training regime. Know your equipment well enough and ACTUALLY train with it & you might be surprised at the results.
Reloading drills AK vs AR15's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZsygs841oY#)
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I've got no beef with the AK because I want one myself, I was just talking about RELOADING alone, which in a perfect world, is the only thing you really have to work with in a perfect hypothetical fire fight, because there is no worry of FTF, and you certainly are not going to have to worry about cleaning it, or clearing jams, or anything else in a perfect hypothetical fight. In a real world, there are FTF, jams, and you do have to clean it after a firefight.
As long as you have good mags, you clean the firearm and mags, and don't get mud or dust in the breach or mags, FTF, jams, and the like are not going to be as common as to make a huge difference in the firefight. However, I think speed and quickness and ease of reload is an advantage.
I think your speaking out of biased opinion towards your AR and Ignorance to the AK
What your speaking of is a weak training regime. Know your equipment well enough and ACTUALLY train with it & you might be surprised at the results.
Reloading drills AK vs AR15's ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZsygs841oY#[/url])
What the fuck was that video? You show me some fucking retard with an AR and that is somehow supposed to be proof? LOL Me speaking of ignorance and bias? LOL I think its the other way around. I think you're speaking of ignorance and bias.
Its pretty much a known fact that the AR is easier to reload than the AK, to act an differently is just arrogance.
That's just like me saying that the AR is more reliable than the AK, I would know I was lying and that its a bunch of bullshit.
Also, I have to say, NICE JOB RETAINING MAGAZINES! *eyeroll*
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That's as good a example of familiarity with the system as any. The one AK guys was faster than anyone else on the line. his technique was quick and simple. the AR guys were fumbling a little. I just don't think they spend as much time with their weapons.
I once had a drill seargent say to us."if you want to be proficient you must handle your weapon more than your cock"
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The KMP-MkII Monolithic piston driven AR is our newest addition to the Red Jacket line up! The Milled Mono-lithic quad railed, mid-length upper captures and extends past the gas block, nothing like it is available on the market! The upper and lower is machined from a full 7075 billet, rounded out with a 1:7 Twist rate Chrome lined Heavy barrel (MOA or better guaranteed), with your choice of barrel length (NFA LAWS apply). We found the Mega Machine modified Adams Arms Piston kit is the best available and is utilized in our entire piston AR builds! One Magpul P-mag included, Magpul UBR as standard, optional Magpul CTR. Suppressor ready with our RJF suppressor flash hider and 3 way adjustable gas system including a full cut off for the ultimate in stealth. As always the KMP is fully lifetime warranted! MBUS included.
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What a bunch of bullshit, who in the hell is stupid enough to read this crap and actually believe it. Wow, the ignorance when it comes to firearms is just astonishing sometimes.
Did you see the fucking price tag?!?!?! Price per Unit (piece): $2,285.00 Geeze, what a great deal! ::)
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What the fuck was that video? You show me some fucking retard with an AR and that is somehow supposed to be proof? LOL Me speaking of ignorance and bias? LOL I think its the other way around. I think you're speaking of ignorance and bias.
Its pretty much a known fact that the AR is easier to reload than the AK, to act an differently is just arrogance.
That's just like me saying that the AR is more reliable than the AK, I would know I was lying and that its a bunch of bullshit.
Also, I have to say, NICE JOB RETAINING MAGAZINES! *eyeroll*
What the fuck are you talking about arrogance... Bitch I run an AK & I guaranttee I could run you into the ground with it. Matter of fact I could probably run you into the ground with your own rifle.
Just because you can't figure out how to reload an AK doesn't mean anyone else cannot.
What you keep speaking of IS A TRAINING ISSUE there is nothing else to it.
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And now we have missed the point. Its a good topic guys lets not shit all over it. [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
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What the fuck was that video? You show me some fucking retard with an AR and that is somehow supposed to be proof? LOL Me speaking of ignorance and bias? LOL I think its the other way around. I think you're speaking of ignorance and bias.
Its pretty much a known fact that the AR is easier to reload than the AK, to act an differently is just arrogance.
That's just like me saying that the AR is more reliable than the AK, I would know I was lying and that its a bunch of bullshit.
Also, I have to say, NICE JOB RETAINING MAGAZINES! *eyeroll*
What the fuck are you talking about arrogance... Bitch I run an AK & I guaranttee I could run you into the ground with it. Matter of fact I could probably run you into the ground with your own rifle.
Just because you can't figure out how to reload an AK doesn't mean anyone else cannot.
What you keep speaking of IS A TRAINING ISSUE there is nothing else to it.
That's what I've been saying the whole time, its harder to reload, ie train someone from the beginning ::)
Maybe actually try reading what I write sometime.
No need to start all the dick measuring, Reaver, don't worry, I'm sure you win. ::)
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And now we have missed the point. Its a good topic guys lets not shit all over it. [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
Yeah, your right Whiskey Jack. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
EJR I'm sorry for snapping. How bout we both go for a run and forget about it?
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No need to start all the dick measuring, Reaver, don't worry, I'm sure you win.
I'm primarily German...
why did we start two world wars? Because the Chinese beat us on dick size.
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EJR I'm sorry for snapping. How bout we both go for a run and forget about it?
I say we just go find a hot sauna somewhere and hug it out... :o
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Oh damn it actually got worse..... LOL.
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Oh damn it actually got worse..... LOL.
Bwhahaha!
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look at you guys go at it, it's hilarious.
I have an AR and an AK and know how to use them both.... :))
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look at you guys go at it, it's hilarious.
I have an AR and an AK and know how to use them both.... :))
One day I'll have both, and I'll train with both. When the SHTF, Wild Turkey and I are going to operate AKs, we'll only use M4's as a backup if somehow all the AKs go down, which isn't likely.
Also, my wife will have the M4, she likes the M4 for a few reasons.
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Oh man, I missed all of that. I knew when she said I should do the carpets today I would miss out on something good. >:(
I, for one, will never be convinced that an AK is faster to reload than an AR. (Granted you can find guys that are slower than a snail at reloading both.) If for no other reason than you have to rock the mag which takes another fraction of a second. Another reason is that the AK isn't as ergonomic or balanced as the AR. Another is due to the size and weight differences of the mags themselves
The point has already been made that drilling with either platform will seriously improve your ability to speed reload either one dramatically.
Oh, note to self: Stay the hell out of sauna's. :)
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Oh, note to self: Stay the hell out of sauna's. :)
Ohh come on, they're a great place to get in there and hug it out with a good snuggle cuddle... ;D
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Red Jacket just built the worlds FIRST piston driven AR with the reliability and track proven toughness of the AK platform! [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at :))
The KMP-MkII Monolithic piston driven AR is our newest addition to the Red Jacket line up! The Milled Mono-lithic quad railed, mid-length upper captures and extends past the gas block, nothing like it is available on the market! The upper and lower is machined from a full 7075 billet, rounded out with a 1:7 Twist rate Chrome lined Heavy barrel (MOA or better guaranteed), with your choice of barrel length (NFA LAWS apply). We found the Mega Machine modified Adams Arms Piston kit is the best available and is utilized in our entire piston AR builds! One Magpul P-mag included, Magpul UBR as standard, optional Magpul CTR. Suppressor ready with our RJF suppressor flash hider and 3 way adjustable gas system including a full cut off for the ultimate in stealth. As always the KMP is fully lifetime warranted! MBUS included.
[url]http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=44&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6[/url] ([url]http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=44&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6[/url])
[img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
red jacket is fucking ridiculous, all they do is build things that we could and act like its all ground breaking...not to mention that show is gay as fuck.
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i really dont get the 12year old in africa running ak's argument
they dont have access to ar15's...........
and if we want to go there wouldn't an ar be a better weapon for them?
lighter
less kick
adjustable stock length for people if different sizes....
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i really dont get the 12year old in africa running ak's argument
they dont have access to ar15's...........
and if we want to go there wouldn't an ar be a better weapon for them?
lighter
less kick
adjustable stock length for people if different sizes....
The point is simplicity is ideal for bitches that can't read.
Or just like simplicity because it doesn't break
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What about a saiga in .223 with a mag adapter to use ar mags. Thats win on both sides bitches. sorry couldnt help to make a smart ass remark.
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i dont think it gets simpler than an AK IMO...
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i dont think it gets simpler than an AK IMO...
single shot shotguns......
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i dont think it gets simpler than an AK IMO...
single shot shotguns......
i have been corrected.
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Back to the video: Why were most of the shooters not retaining their empty mags? We may never know. [url=http://www.freesmileys.or
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i really dont get the 12year old in africa running ak's argument
they dont have access to ar15's...........
and if we want to go there wouldn't an ar be a better weapon for them?
lighter
less kick
adjustable stock length for people if different sizes....
The point is simplicity is ideal for bitches that can't read.
Or just like simplicity because it doesn't break
Finally after all the years of having this signature on all the different forums it gets an honorable mention..even if it wasnt meant for me ill take it.... lol
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Back to the video: Why were most of the shooters not retaining their empty mags? We may never know.
if im getting shot at i dont give a shit about trying to retain mags... an empty mag wont do me any further good in the current fight, except in the rare situation that i need a blunt object to beat a guys face in...but theres better options for that... ill gather my mags and the dead guys mags if i win.
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Back to the video: Why were most of the shooters not retaining their empty mags? We may never know.
if im getting shot at i dont give a shit about trying to retain mags... an empty mag wont do me any further good in the current fight, except in the rare situation that i need a blunt object to beat a guys face in...but theres better options for that... ill gather my mags and the dead guys mags if i win.
This is one reason I like that my M1A has a stripper clip guide. If I manage to lose all my 20-rd mags (like a BOSS, :)) ), I have my backup 10-rd Springfield Armory magazine. I also have 10-rd stripper clips. I will be able to reload fairly quickly, and keep that mag seated where it won't get lost. If I buy a good many stripper clips (not that expensive), I will have a solid backup system in place in case I need it.
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Back to the video: Why were most of the shooters not retaining their empty mags? We may never know.
if im getting shot at i dont give a shit about trying to retain mags... an empty mag wont do me any further good in the current fight, except in the rare situation that i need a blunt object to beat a guys face in...but theres better options for that... ill gather my mags and the dead guys mags if i win.
if you retain your mags you can carry stripper clips on you, that way once the shooting stops you can load up your mags again for day 2.......
being cut off from supply of ammo is a real fuckin bitch
losing half your mags or more before you get to a holding position is even worse
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I hear ya' Ken however they are not in a battle situation they are training.
There was one guy towards the left end of the line putting his empty mags back into his vest. I didn't see one guy putting an empty mag into a dump pouch.
What ever, just an observation.
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i dont think it gets simpler than an AK IMO...
single shot shotguns......
Yep, and I've got one of them. goes bang everytime no matter, never had any problems and I never clean it, either.
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Yep, buy your ammo or put them on stripper clips, it will save you a lot of time when your mags are empty, not to mention it saves room and you can carry more ammo than just what is in your mags..
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Back to the video: Why were most of the shooters not retaining their empty mags? We may never know.
if im getting shot at i dont give a shit about trying to retain mags... an empty mag wont do me any further good in the current fight, except in the rare situation that i need a blunt object to beat a guys face in...but theres better options for that... ill gather my mags and the dead guys mags if i win.
if you retain your mags you can carry stripper clips on you, that way once the shooting stops you can load up your mags again for day 2.......
being cut off from supply of ammo is a real fuckin bitch
losing half your mags or more before you get to a holding position is even worse
But jesse its not like your going to have full mags at the start of the day and extra ammo to refill them after a fire fight... you have full mags and once you shoot the ammo out of them they dont do you any good until you refill them back at base or something. unless you plan to carry twice the ammo on stripper clips to refill mags...which makes no sense...just carry more full mags with you..
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That all becomes a weight issue Ken. 250 rounds on stripper clips is still lighter than the same in mags. I would advocate carrying extra mags anyway just in case. However this whole argument is moot because what you do or do not carry should be based on factors that cannot always be predetermined or planned for. Just stay flexible.
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Back to the video: Why were most of the shooters not retaining their empty mags? We may never know.
if im getting shot at i dont give a shit about trying to retain mags... an empty mag wont do me any further good in the current fight, except in the rare situation that i need a blunt object to beat a guys face in...but theres better options for that... ill gather my mags and the dead guys mags if i win.
if you retain your mags you can carry stripper clips on you, that way once the shooting stops you can load up your mags again for day 2.......
being cut off from supply of ammo is a real fuckin bitch
losing half your mags or more before you get to a holding position is even worse
But jesse its not like your going to have full mags at the start of the day and extra ammo to refill them after a fire fight... you have full mags and once you shoot the ammo out of them they dont do you any good until you refill them back at base or something. unless you plan to carry twice the ammo on stripper clips to refill mags...which makes no sense...just carry more full mags with you..
nice opsec asshole
anyways
my rig right now can carry 12 magazines in the pouches
however there is a spot on it where i can carry a shit load of stripper clips, but more mags in there wouldn't work
as in i can cram 12 mags and enough ammo to restock them all
or i can carry 14 magazines......
i prefer the extra ammo
besides they are really quick to load up a mag
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"nice opsec asshole"
Ken, tisk, tisk, tisk! :))
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Back to the video: Why were most of the shooters not retaining their empty mags? We may never know.
if im getting shot at i dont give a shit about trying to retain mags... an empty mag wont do me any further good in the current fight, except in the rare situation that i need a blunt object to beat a guys face in...but theres better options for that... ill gather my mags and the dead guys mags if i win.
if you retain your mags you can carry stripper clips on you, that way once the shooting stops you can load up your mags again for day 2.......
being cut off from supply of ammo is a real fuckin bitch
losing half your mags or more before you get to a holding position is even worse
But jesse its not like your going to have full mags at the start of the day and extra ammo to refill them after a fire fight... you have full mags and once you shoot the ammo out of them they dont do you any good until you refill them back at base or something. unless you plan to carry twice the ammo on stripper clips to refill mags...which makes no sense...just carry more full mags with you..
nice opsec asshole
anyways
my rig right now can carry 12 magazines in the pouches
however there is a spot on it where i can carry a shit load of stripper clips, but more mags in there wouldn't work
as in i can cram 12 mags and enough ammo to restock them all
or i can carry 14 magazines......
i prefer the extra ammo
besides they are really quick to load up a mag
I didnt think it was an issue... my first name shortened is in my SP name... but anyways...if you wanna carry 24 mags worth of
ammo go for it but thats around 25lbs just in ammo.
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I hear ya' Ken however they are not in a battle situation they are training.
There was one guy towards the left end of the line putting his empty mags back into his vest. I didn't see one guy putting an empty mag into a dump pouch.
What ever, just an observation.
train like you fight is how i feel... im not retaining them when im getting shot at so i need to train the same way... the only gun i have to worry about mags on is my Glock anyways so i can say with certainty that i will Deffinatly NOT be retaining those mags because if im using it its bad news and i dont give a shit about mags if i dont do everything right im about to die.
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oh i just like to give you shit buddy
and the ammo weight is only 21.6 lbs
i don't plan on retaining mags if i am taking rounds away from cover, but if i am not trying to do a speed reload why not drop that mag in a dump pouch?
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oh i just like to give you shit buddy
and the ammo weight is only 21.6 lbs
i don't plan on retaining mags if i am taking rounds away from cover, but if i am not trying to do a speed reload why not drop that mag in a dump pouch?
yeah there are some situations where retaining an empty mag is ok. but i know how i would be thinking and if some ones shooting at me i want two hands back on that rifle ASAP after a Reload with my eye looking through those sights.
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your rockin a shotgun anyways so no mags to worry about 8)
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your rockin a shotgun anyways so no mags to worry about 8)
yeah like i said to JM i only have mags on my sidearm so i know for a fact im dropping those fuckers in the dirt if im in a situation where im shooting it.
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I would like to retain mags. But think about this angle.
Seriously how many firefights with bands of thugs and rapist to you think there will be? And when your done with said firefight are you not going to police up their shit & your shit? I am.
One or two team members pulls security while the other picks up gear, food, water, ammo.
That's not looting that scavenging and surviving.
I am NOT saying DON'T try to retain your shit. I am just saying. When the situation is dealt with I think there will be time to pick that shit up. And if you lose. Well shit who cares where your mags are?
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I would like to retain mags. But think about this angle.
Seriously how many firefights with bands of thugs and rapist to you think there will be? And when your done with said firefight are you not going to police up their shit & your shit? I am.
One or two team members pulls security while the other picks up gear, food, water, ammo.
That's not looting that scavenging and surviving.
I am NOT saying DON'T try to retain your shit. I am just saying. When the situation is dealt with I think there will be time to pick that shit up. And if you lose. Well shit who cares where your mags are?
My thoughts EXACTLY.
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I would like to retain mags. But think about this angle.
Seriously how many firefights with bands of thugs and rapist to you think there will be? And when your done with said firefight are you not going to police up their shit & your shit? I am.
One or two team members pulls security while the other picks up gear, food, water, ammo.
That's not looting that scavenging and surviving.
I am NOT saying DON'T try to retain your shit. I am just saying. When the situation is dealt with I think there will be time to pick that shit up. And if you lose. Well shit who cares where your mags are?
if i burn more than 2 mags i am going to try and evade and escape
therefore i dont want to lose my shit
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I understand that redneck. BUT
Firefights don't play out the way you want them to. Sometimes ( more than others ) it may be better to see it through to the end.
Plus, if you burn of 60 rounds. You burned off 60 rounds! Unless you finish it up till the end
( where you can replenish whats lost ) you permanently lose that 60 rounds. No picking up brass. No reloading later. Gone just gone.
I'm just saying.
>:D Plus looting corpses just sounds awesome ( MSSI )
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I understand that redneck. BUT
Firefights don't play out the way you want them to. Sometimes ( more than others ) it may be better to see it through to the end.
Plus, if you burn of 60 rounds. You burned off 60 rounds! Unless you finish it up till the end
( where you can replenish whats lost ) you permanently lose that 60 rounds. No picking up brass. No reloading later. Gone just gone.
I'm just saying.
>:D Plus looting corpses just sounds awesome ( MSSI )
if its a fight i cant win and i cant just slip away i want to shit an enormous amount of rounds on them to initiate it
i want them to get behind cover so i can move to a position where i can retreat
that probably means a mag dump to start and most likely some covering fire while i move........
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I would like to retain mags. But think about this angle.
Seriously how many firefights with bands of thugs and rapist to you think there will be? And when your done with said firefight are you not going to police up their shit & your shit? I am.
One or two team members pulls security while the other picks up gear, food, water, ammo.
That's not looting that scavenging and surviving.
I am NOT saying DON'T try to retain your shit. I am just saying. When the situation is dealt with I think there will be time to pick that shit up. And if you lose. Well shit who cares where your mags are?
The problem with that idea is that you're assuming that you were on the offense, you put yourself in this situation, all your intelligence was correct, and you whooped their ass.
I'm not as highly trained or as good as you are, so yes, I could see myself walking myself and maybe a few others into a fucking ambush that is of such a magnitude that you're entire team gets wiped out trying to fight through it, and we are trying to get the fuck out of dodge while covering each other on the way out. Or I could even see myself getting us into a situation where you think you're the big swinging dick, and then all the sudden you realize you made a huge tactical error, and you have to get the hell out of Dodge real quick. Either way, I won't be coming back for my mags that I drop along the way.
Mags will carry quite a good price and may be hard to come by, depending on the circumstances.
Also, what good is an AK 47 if you don't have a magazine for it? You've got a single shot rifle.
My point is that there may be a time where you're running, instead of either fighting or dying. I understand that many have no intention to ever run, but to take the hill or die trying and that's fine too. In that case, you're right, don't worry about where your mags are lying. You either won or you're dead. Guess that might be the difference between you and I. You're the badass, I'm not.
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for the most part shit and split is my combat attitude
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I always thought the Guerrilla fighter was more of a hit and run, meaning, you hit, and you run. You stay light, strike fast, and exfil just as fast as you got in. You have no time to round up supplies and do tactical requisitioning, because the Calvary is on its way, as you just messed up a hell of a lot of their people.
Maybe I'm wrong...
There is a time and place for tactical requisitioning, but that time and place is not while you're hitting and running, Guerrilla style.
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I always thought the Guerrilla fighter was more of a hit and run, meaning, you hit, and you run. You stay light, strike fast, and exfil just as fast as you got in. You have no time to round up supplies and do tactical requisitioning, because the Calvary is on its way, as you just messed up a hell of a lot of their people.
Maybe I'm wrong...
There is a time and place for tactical requisitioning, but that time and place is not while you're hitting and running, Guerrilla style.
depends on how large of a force your taking on
is quite possible to shoot a patrol to shit in seconds and have the time to take shit off them
ask the vietcong
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I was thinking more along the lines of FreeFor vs. OpFor.
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Noone is claiming to be a bad ass.
Look If you get into a firefight that you cannot get your self out of. You win or you lose. If you win you pick your shit back up if you lose it doesnt matter.
If you can get out. Like you said your not comeing back for your mags.
What's the issue here?
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Retain your mags, unless you are 100 percent sure you're going to be picking them up at the end of the fight.
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Noone is claiming to be a bad ass.
Look If you get into a firefight that you cannot get your self out of. You win or you lose. If you win you pick your shit back up if you lose it doesnt matter.
If you can get out. Like you said your not comeing back for your mags.
What's the issue here?
ok now that were all on the same page how about a group hug?
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[URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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I've got the sauna warmed up if ya'll wanna hug it out... ^-^
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I've got the sauna warmed up if ya'll wanna hug it out... ^-^
Fuck yeah!
back on topic.
Logistics.
Now I have another lower/upper/BCG/bolt. Barrel
21 mags.
I think I made the right decision. Though I am worried
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Reaver I would worry too, I mean after all you went from perfection to an ar lol. Im just kidding man nothing to worry about you had more than just the one ak you sold right?
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Reaver I would worry too, I mean after all you went from perfection to an ar lol. Im just kidding man nothing to worry about you had more than just the one ak you sold right?
yeah, so perfect you dont even aim...... ???
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Reaver I would worry too, I mean after all you went from perfection to an ar lol. Im just kidding man nothing to worry about you had more than just the one ak you sold right?
I haven't sold the maadi yet. And I still got the draco...and the 74
Buying a tin of 74 ammo and some mags next month. Just for stocking.
And earlier I pickup up the 47 and ran that mother fucker like I have been training to. And it feels so right...and my Car15 feels so wrong... Man.... I'm sad. :(
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AKs are so awesome, you don't have to aim when you shoot them.
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I point shoot with my ak pretty damn good, and I can move from target to target much faster that way. I mean hell as long as im center mass who cares, even if i wing them in most cases they would be out of the fight.
Reaver Keep the ak's then have them both you already have all your ak gear pretty set, just start stocking ar stuff.
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I point shoot with my ak pretty damn good, and I can move from target to target much faster that way. I mean hell as long as I'm center mass who cares, even if i wing them in most cases they would be out of the fight.
Reaver Keep the ak's then have them both you already have all your ak gear pretty set, just start stocking AR stuff.
Is it sad that my AK gear works better with AR stuff [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
I did a load out test today & ( not saying that I am ) I can Effectively carry 21 Magazine's on my person.
Even I have to admit. That is IN THE FIGHT
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Damn man thats wild, im carrying 9 mags in my rig and 1 in the rifle. where the hell are you stuffing all those mags?
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How much does 21 mags weigh?!?!?
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Damn man thats wild, im carrying 9 mags in my rig and 1 in the rifle. where the hell are you stuffing all those mags?
Lol, the AK rig
US Palm Attack Rack V2 Gives me 4 slots time two. Three slots internal ( map case area )
I have two coupler pouches one on the left one on the right thats 15 mags on my vest.
I have a three mag pouch leg drop. that's 18
I have a third coupler in the weapon thats 20
And I have a Magazine pouch that fits on the stock of the weapon thats 21
so 631 rounds total with one in the chamber.
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Now that reminds me of the old FPS games where you had 800 rounds on your person. Damn that is a lot of rounds.
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LOL nice i didnt even think about throwing mags in the kangaroo pouch, right now all i have in it is a pin, some big ass zip ties some 550 cord and some 550 cord hand cuffs.
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Standby for You tube video boys. I went ahead and made one. :))
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21 Mag Rig (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpOcVZfV_VU#)
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Oh man I still got some pounds to lose. [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
I look like a heifer!
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Oh man I still got some pounds to lose. [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
I look like a heifer!
That rig does make your ass look big, time to find one that is more slimming. I mean, what if the OpFor sends the fashion police after you?
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lol, yep. That's my primary worry. [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
Seriously though. 10 more pounds and I'm good to go.
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If you're fat, I'm this guy...
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9t7TeJwcYrg/TaCtE437xAI/AAAAAAAAABQ/I1-1jzvBdgQ/s1600/6-fat-man.jpg)
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WHY DO YOU HAVE THAT PICTURE?! WTF MAN? [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
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WHY DO YOU HAVE THAT PICTURE?! WTF MAN?
Have you ever heard of Google before?
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Is that what you use google for? eghhh.
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Just bustin your balls bro. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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(http://politicalvindication.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/big-brass.jpg)
Yep.
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21 Mag Rig ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpOcVZfV_VU#[/url])
Holy shit. That's a lot of mags. You carry that load out in the swamp and you're going to sink in the mud. :)
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i carry 17 mags on my rig, and more if i have my pack on..
except my rig aint as nice as that its kinda crappy how i carry 4 of those mags........
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Like I said. I don't " Plan " on carrying all of that.
The only time I see my self carrying all of that crap is when I know for a fact there is going to be a fight.
I'll probably just run with about 6 or 7
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Did you ever weigh it to see how much it weighed?
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Did you ever weigh it to see how much it weighed?
Not yet. It will be heavier than my kiss though.
I don't think anyone can build a rifle lighter than my old man.
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lol, Reaver for some reason I thought you were an older fella, you look the same age as me.
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lol, Reaver for some reason I thought you were an older fella, you look the same age as me.
I look fat and it pisses me off!
It's ok though. This new work out will have that shit gone quick!
Oh, yeah. And I'm 22 man
How old are you? if you don't mind answering it.
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Damn RVR! id call that an example of Full Retard..... [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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Damn RVR! id call that an example of you a Full Retard.....
FTFY [url=http://www.freesmileys.or
I'm 29, ya'll make me feel old, but I don't anybody is older than Sledge, right?
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[URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
Quick EJR I like it.
To bad you can't make it to the nearest stop sign that quick 8)
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Quick EJR I like it.
To bad you can't make it to the nearest stop sign that quick
Yeah, I'm a fatass with a bad back, ohh well, I'll save the last round for me, the zombies won't get me alive. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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Yeah, I carry the Berreta M21A for that.
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Yeah, I carry the Berreta M21A for that.
Sig P229 in .40 for me.
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21 goin' on 22 so we really are about the same age, we look damn near the same except i have a beard.
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21 goin' on 22 so we really are about the same age, we look damn near the same except i have a beard.
>:( I had one...but had to play army a shave it off :-\
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EJR,
Sledge is sooooo old he farts dust!
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EJR,
Sledge is sooooo old he farts dust!
Actually, that would be saw dust and it really chaps my ass too. Of course, when you get to be my age, you get kind of grumpy and most things chap your ass. LOL!
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Hey I have my 56th B-Day in a couple of weeks so we aren't that far apart in the age department.
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Hey I have my 56th B-Day in a couple of weeks so we aren't that far apart in the age department.
I hope you have a good one! :) 57 hasn't been bad so far. I've been lucky health wise compared to most of the people I went to school with. Actually I'm in pretty good shape for a guy my age. One of these days maybe I'll put up a picture. I've been thinking about getting one of those computer cameras so I can take part in the video blogs.
Congratulations on the job JM! :) They're building some kind of an experimental bio diesel plant not far from here. I've been thinking about going over and talking with those folks.
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Hey I'm 54. Can I be in your Old Farts Club too?
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Hey I'm 54. Can I be in your Old Farts Club too?
Sure hjmoosejaw. :) Anyone who clever enough to have figured out how to live past 50 is welcome in the OFC.
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Thanks ! It is an accomplishment ain't it? Like I keep telling my kids , (who, of course think their invincible) Man, it only takes a second or one wrong decision to mess it all up. Things can change in an instant.
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Well Reaver, knowing you on a personal level. I know your love for the AK. I know your knowledge on both platforms. I know your ass lugged around that M4 with me overseas. I know how well you shoot and how well you operate the AR platform. The experience is already there.
We've had discussions of your plan (vaguely) and such. I'd say AR considering Pops and his capabilities I've seen his work. You know how I feel about the kiss rifle. So any justification thats needed man you got what you need.
I know you'll never get rid of the AK's. Theres no need. The reliability is unquestionable. I'd say use the AR for a week the AK for a week ;)
That way they don't feel neglected and abused. If you do for whatever reason get rid of them. Sling them rounds my way.
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Save up and by my Maadi. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co