Author Topic: Judging What You're Dealing With When Someone Pulls A Gun.  (Read 2898 times)

Offline sledge

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Judging What You're Dealing With When Someone Pulls A Gun.
« on: October 03, 2011, 08:06:02 AM »
I usually don't give advice on things pertaining to the use of a gun because I don't want someone to get hurt trying to use one the way I do without practicing it.  However, the way things have been going with the economy, the number of robberies and shootings involving people who have gone off the deep end have been growing. 

For better or worse, in my life I've been involved in many conflicts of varying degrees of aggression and lethality.  Something I learned long ago was that quickly recognizing the psychological makeup and behavioral clues of an opponent can give you an advantage in dealing with them.  So I've studied human nature extensively in an effort to give myself this advantage in a hostile situation. 

I'll leave it to experts like Dave_M and Technique to maybe tell how to deal with a given situation.  I'll just say that I'm a big fan of the double tap if dealing with one armed aggressor.  Which is why I usually carry a 9mm.  Double taps are not something I would recommend when dealing with multiple armed aggressors in close proximity.  In those situations a larger caliber would come in handy.

The example I'll use in recognizing behavioral clues will take place in a restaurant as several active shooter situations have taken place in restaurants as of late.  But the same concepts would apply to any location including your home.

You see a man as he enters through the main entrance while holding a gun in his hand. (Note: Always sit facing the door in a restaurants or anywhere when you will be required to sit.)  The first thing you'll need to do is to recognize his motivation as this will be an indication of how much time you have to react.  His purpose for being there could include several scenarios.  He could be there to increase his finances.  Or he could be there to kill one person, or he could be there to kill everyone in the place.

The first clue to his intentions will be what he says if anything as he enters.  If he barks out instructions (hit the floor, no one move, whatever)  his motivation is money.  This doesn't mean he won't kill everyone in the place after he gets what he wants.  But it does mean that his initial desire is to gain the compliance of the people in the restaurant.  This buys you time should you need to relocate yourself due to something interfering with getting a clear shot or moving away from people you wouldn't want to get hit by return fire.  (your family)

At this point the armed robber is in what I refer to as herding mode.  Much like a trained dog herding sheep, he must keep his eyes moving in an attempt to watch everyone to ensure their compliance.  This means as he looks in a direction away from you that you have the ability to move a short distance very quickly to get a clear shot or attain cover before firing.  He will most likely see you in his peripheral vision.  It will still take him a second to turn his head to look at you, register what you are doing and respond.  A second is a lifetime in this situation and should provide you with an opportunity to eliminate the threat.

If the man enters the restaurant without issuing any instructions his motivation is to kill someone or everyone.  He has already made up his mind before he enters the building.  This means you will have very little time to react.  The armed man is in hunting mode.  He is either looking for someone specific or anyone and his eyes are searching for a target.  When he finds that target he will pull the trigger.

If he homes in on another victim you may have a second to rise while drawing your weapon to fire.  If he homes in immediately on you then you are in a race for your life.  Lets hope that you have practiced drawing your weapon from a sitting position. 

Please feel free to add any content that would add to the topic.   

     

 

   
« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 12:07:55 PM by sledge »



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Offline leadpersuasion

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Re: Judging What You're Dealing With When Someone Pulls A Gun.
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2011, 08:32:44 AM »
Very good read. I would only add, that this is a prime reason we all should situate ourselves into a tactically advantageous position within restaurants and other public buildings. We should be on alert and give ourselves every advantage possible, as everybody knows, being on the defensive means we are always going to be reacting to something or someone else first before becoming offensive.
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Offline Vandal

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Re: Judging What You're Dealing With When Someone Pulls A Gun.
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2011, 01:15:29 PM »
Really, really, good read.  Looking for a prime time to react and do something is key.

Offline NOLA556

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Re: Judging What You're Dealing With When Someone Pulls A Gun.
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2011, 02:13:18 PM »
Very good read. I would only add, that this is a prime reason we all should situate ourselves into a tactically advantageous position within restaurants and other public buildings. We should be on alert and give ourselves every advantage possible, as everybody knows, being on the defensive means we are always going to be reacting to something or someone else first before becoming offensive.

right... the mafia seat, so to speak. clear view of all entries and exits, back to a corner.
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Offline sledge

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Re: Judging What You're Dealing With When Someone Pulls A Gun.
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2011, 06:12:00 PM »
Just a note: If you are carrying concealed while in a restaurant (and you should be), a table setting has a lot of advantages over a booth setting.



In the pursuit of liberty, many will fall. In the pursuit of fascism, many will be against the wall..........   Courtesy of Xydaco

Offline sledge

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Re: Judging What You're Dealing With When Someone Pulls A Gun.
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2011, 06:31:40 PM »
Situational awareness and critical thinking. Back to a wall enables observation. Good write up. I still can't help but ponder the horrible thought of catching a round in my flank or back, delivered by a "good Samaritan" who mistakes my response as the original threat. My brain always is thinking in terms of worst case scenarios.  :o

That is a very, very good point!  And something that should be considered.



In the pursuit of liberty, many will fall. In the pursuit of fascism, many will be against the wall..........   Courtesy of Xydaco

Offline Kindredspirit

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Re: Judging What You're Dealing With When Someone Pulls A Gun.
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2011, 08:18:58 PM »
great read...  [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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Offline EJR914

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Re: Judging What You're Dealing With When Someone Pulls A Gun.
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2011, 05:42:28 AM »
Good write up, man!  I completely agree.  Except I open carry everywhere.  LOL oops there goes my element of surprise, but then again, I do get a deterrent factor. 

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/ccm-columns/the-ordinary-guy/robbery-what-robbery/

A robbery was stopped by my friend Matt Brannen simply for being at a waffle house open carrying. 

Offline mountainredneck2051

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Re: Judging What You're Dealing With When Someone Pulls A Gun.
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2011, 12:26:37 PM »
awesome read, thanks sledge

another thing to remember,

even if you ain't armed (which you should be) the average man can cover 21 feet in a second
and it only takes a couple good blows to kill a man if you know how to throw a fist around
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Offline 1000meterstare

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Re: Judging What You're Dealing With When Someone Pulls A Gun.
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2011, 11:51:18 AM »
Also pay attention to distance.  90% of people (including LE) cannot hit a target with a handgun at 20+ yards on the first shot or with any regularity.  I train with my .45 acp from zero all the way to 50 yards.  I'd take that gamble with a would-be robber/thug at an extended distance; skill versus skill or lack thereof.  Good writeup.  Sometimes that shot just isn't available, especially with innocents around.
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Offline Bobruffles

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Re: Judging What You're Dealing With When Someone Pulls A Gun.
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2011, 04:35:33 PM »
What about Bar/Pubs? Do you shoot a drunk if he is irate?
(By the way Im refering to a bar that serves food)

Offline sledge

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Re: Judging What You're Dealing With When Someone Pulls A Gun.
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2011, 04:47:09 PM »
What about Bar/Pubs? Do you shoot a drunk if he is irate?
(By the way Im refering to a bar that serves food)

It depends.  Do you feel your life is in danger from this drunk?  Or more importantly, would a jury of your peers agree that your life was in danger from this drunk.

Also, be aware that in many states civil suits can arise against you from someone who was "traumatized" by witnessing you shooting this drunk. 

To shoot someone you need to be certain in your own mind that your life (or someone else's) is in extreme jeopardy if you do not shoot them.  That way you can be certain within yourself that the best possible option to the situation was achieved regardless of if you are found guilty of murder or sued for everything you own.  At least you are still alive.



In the pursuit of liberty, many will fall. In the pursuit of fascism, many will be against the wall..........   Courtesy of Xydaco

Offline mountainredneck2051

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Re: Judging What You're Dealing With When Someone Pulls A Gun.
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2011, 06:51:40 PM »
in my state if its a justified shooting you cannot be sued by anyone for it

so fuck all the libtards "traumatized" by me defending myself
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Offline tominphx

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Re: Judging What You're Dealing With When Someone Pulls A Gun.
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2011, 02:48:01 PM »
Honestly, on the rare occasions when I eat at a sit down restaurant, I'd be more concerned about where the exits are, than "tactical seating". I've never known anyone who was involved in a robbery or shooting in a place where large numbers of people congregate to sit, such as a restaurant or movie theater. I have known several people who had to evacuate due to a fire or other hazardous condition.   Concealment while seated is also a primary concern, as it's pretty much impossible not to print when seated for me, although this usually means putting my back to the wall anyway.
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Offline hjmoosejaw

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Re: Judging What You're Dealing With When Someone Pulls A Gun.
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2012, 06:34:08 PM »
I do sit facing the door. The part about herding mode and hunting mode is some really handy info, Thanks a lot! Good read!
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Offline hjmoosejaw

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Re: Judging What You're Dealing With When Someone Pulls A Gun.
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2012, 08:14:17 PM »
Hey Sledge, I just read your thread to the little lady and she asked me: "So if you're in a restaurant, a guy walks in, in hunting mode. He don't say anything, just takes out a gun and aims it at some people. Are you going to shoot him if you have the chance?"  I said I couldn't say. She said, "So you're going to wait till he shoots someone? I said " What if he's an undercover LEO getting the drop on a Perp that's taking refuge in the restaurant ?" I think by the time you get your gun out, he would have already made his intentions known. Good or bad. Any thoughts? ( from anybody? )
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 08:17:03 PM by hjmoosejaw »
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Offline sledge

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Re: Judging What You're Dealing With When Someone Pulls A Gun.
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2012, 08:41:09 PM »
Hey Sledge, I just read your thread to the little lady and she asked me: "So if you're in a restaurant, a guy walks in, in hunting mode. He don't say anything, just takes out a gun and aims it at some people. Are you going to shoot him if you have the chance?"  I said I couldn't say. She said, "So you're going to wait till he shoots someone? I said " What if he's an undercover LEO getting the drop on a Perp that's taking refuge in the restaurant ?" I think by the time you get your gun out, he would have already made his intentions known. Good or bad. Any thoughts? ( from anybody? )

If he's an undercover cop trying to apprehend a suspect he better be yelling "police" or holding a badge.  I do understand the basis of the question.  Say if you come out of a store and there are two guys pointing guns at each other in the parking lot.  How do you know who the good guy is?  Sometime you don't have all the answers you would like.  Answer this question.  Do you feel your life is threatened by what is going on in front of you?  If you feel your life is threatened then react.  Cops do it every day of the week.



In the pursuit of liberty, many will fall. In the pursuit of fascism, many will be against the wall..........   Courtesy of Xydaco

Offline hjmoosejaw

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Re: Judging What You're Dealing With When Someone Pulls A Gun.
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2012, 09:12:54 PM »
Makes sense. Thanks!
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