Unchained Preppers
General Category => Security & Survival => Topic started by: RB in GA on April 22, 2022, 03:48:14 PM
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https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/calibers/5-56-nato/5-56-rifles/556-nato-16-parkerized-m4-barrel-1-8-twist-15mlok-engraved-lower-new-handguard-flash-hider.html (https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/calibers/5-56-nato/5-56-rifles/556-nato-16-parkerized-m4-barrel-1-8-twist-15mlok-engraved-lower-new-handguard-flash-hider.html)
I need a new AR like I need the proverbial hole in the head, but this is tempting.
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https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/calibers/5-56-nato/5-56-rifles/556-nato-16-parkerized-m4-barrel-1-8-twist-15mlok-engraved-lower-new-handguard-flash-hider.html (https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/calibers/5-56-nato/5-56-rifles/556-nato-16-parkerized-m4-barrel-1-8-twist-15mlok-engraved-lower-new-handguard-flash-hider.html)
I need a new AR like I need the proverbial hole in the head, but this is tempting.
Understand the sentiment whenever I buy a new pack or chest rig but then I remind myself that I'll need alot of ppl to help keep guard and they'll need this stuff. Same applies to rifles. Hopefully the sale drags on so I can snatch up something come payday.
Thanks for the link
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Thanks RB! :cheers:
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Looks like it's out of stock :-(
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The market is flush with rifles right now. There are plenty of deals to be had. Spend a lettle bit more and get yourself a decent rifle. I have seen sooo many Bear Creek fairlures. There is a much bettere pool of rifles to be had for $600 range.
Chris
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Or better yet, invest in a Steyr AUG ;) 8) :dancingGrenade: Or a PTR 91/H&K 91. :gunner:
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My next accusation I think, is going to be a AR 10 or FN 91 clone. Open to suggestions.
The 5.56 is an OK round however, after putting down plenty of deer, pigs and steer with it, the .308 seems to anchor critters. Where if you are off a hair with the 5.56, a second and sometimes a third round is needed. I am a one and done kind-a guy. ;)
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I'm not sure what a FN 91 is, maybe you're referring to a FN FAL? The H&K 91 is a 7.62 semi-auto battle rifle, derived from the H&K G3, full auto rifle. The PTR 91 is a clone of the H&K 91. I acquired mine back in the late 70's, and I hunted white-tail deer with it for many years, using a five round magazine. It's an older design, but extremely reliable, and it is on the heavy side. It's a weapon that can tolerate rough conditions, and it always goes boom when the booger hook activates the bang switch. Due to the roller lock action, recoil is less of an issue than with other 7.62 rifles. Magazines are relatively inexpensive too. It's always interesting to fire the H&K 91 after firing an AR-15, as it's much louder, and just feels more authoritative. In an Alamo situation, the K&K 91 is the weapon that I'd prefer to be using, as the 7.62 has significant stopping power, and I wouldn't be humping it.
The AR-10 has more accessories available, but the H&K 91/PTR 91 now has trigger, stock, and hand guard upgrades that weren't available back when I bought my firearm. The AR-10 is a lighter weapon, and most folks are familiar with the action and how it functions.
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Johny
There are some good options available in a .308 (7.62x51) platform. The AR10 is a definite option, just remember there are different patterns that are not all interchangeable like the AR15. The only ones Ive found to be truly reliable and durable are fairly expensive (KAC or LMT) with a few others that have been decent that are definitely not going to hit the pocketbook as bad (Springfield Saint, Armalite). There are ton of people putting out AR Heavies now, most of which I wouldnt touch.
On the other than AR platform there is the HK91 pattern (PTR), FNFAL pattern (DSA), and the M1A. All have some good features and some bad. I personally like the FAL for a battle rifle, or as some know it as the "Right Arm of the Free World". My personal FAL is an FN that was used in Africa by the Portuguese. I bought it as a demilled kit and did the full reassembly myself. For a factory gun the DSA's are nice. I also have a place in my heart for the M1A in its classic wood stock configuration but there are definite limitations with them.
Chris
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So Chris FN/Fal or DSA? Why?
I am not interested in hitting targets at 1,000 meters just a plain reliable semi in 7.62 x 51. Thoughts?
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Johny
Super reliable rifles that will eat anything you want to run through them. The are known to run even when filthy dirty including dirt and grime. They are hefty without being overly heavy. Magazines are readily available and are not very expensive. These are battle rifles, not precision rifles. DSA offers a pretty good selection of options from the classic full length rifles to carbines and folding stock Para models. I prefer the full length rifles for their muzzle velocity and the recoil system of the fixed stock variants. I would not want to carry these for high mobility operations, but for a security patrol or for defensive purposes where a harder hitting round is preferable they are great.
You can also find used FALs at reasonable prices, mainly Imbel (Brazilian)varients. FN built are getting pretty expensive. You will also find Israeli models around and some people find them collectable. Springfield imported some in the 80's that are called SA48s. If you are going older guns for use(not just collecting) avoid L1A1 (British) models. They are inch pattern instead of metric and their parts are harder to find and their magazines are not interchangeable and much more expensive. FN, Imbel, and Israeli and DSA are all metric.
Chris
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Here's JCD's review of the PTR 91 in American Partisan: https://www.americanpartisan.org/2022/04/evaluating-the-ptr-91-hk-91-clone-as-a-survivalist-rifle-and-accessorizing-it/ (https://www.americanpartisan.org/2022/04/evaluating-the-ptr-91-hk-91-clone-as-a-survivalist-rifle-and-accessorizing-it/)
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For you folks in the know, any thoughts on the PTR? I know about 10-years ago I was getting ready to buy one but the ability to shoot a wide range of 7.62x51 ammo was a problem the rifle had.
Rumor has it that PTR put our a "GI" version which was a bit more forgiving with a wider range of ammo.
I would want one with a factory installed optics rail and with minimal amount of altering for the mid rifle handle. Here (https://ptr-us.com/product/gir-ptr-101/) is one I was looking at.
Anyway, don't be hesitant jumping in with thoughts.
Thanks :cheers:
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According to JCD the newer PTR's don't have an issue with ammo. Magazines are very cheap from RTG, AIM surplus, etc. Definitely purchase the buffer. I've got a buffer on my HK 91, and it does a good job protecting the brass. And yes, I do reload my old brass. The HK platform is very reliable, proven platform, and currently in use by at least 79 country's militaries. If you run out of ammunition, the firearm could easily be used for beating someone to death, it's that rugged. PTR's are manufactured in the U.S., and they carry a lifetime warranty.
As a side note, I've got a PTR MP-5K clone on layaway, should have it in a couple of months. https://ptr-us.com/product/9-kt-ptr-603/
Atlantic Firearms has the PTR-101 in stock: https://atlanticfirearms.com/ptr-gi-r-308-rifle-paddle-mag-release
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PTR solved the feeding issues a while ago. There are a quality rifle. The HK roller lock system is a proven system. As Jackalope pointed out mags are cheap from a number of different sources. You would not be going wrong with one. If you can try shouldering the HK91 (PTR) , FAL (DSA), etc and see which you prefer. That is the best rifle for you. You are looking at proven designed battle rifles. As was mentioned 79 countries used or used the HK91 and the FAL is second only to the AK for the number used around the world.
Chris
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I believe Brent0331 commented on one of his vids that during his travels in Africa he still saw a ton of HK91s versus FALs left over from the cold war being used by the local militaries. If so than that is a helluva SHTF endorsement.
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The FN SCAR 17 is also a solid candidate for 7.62x51, .308. Folding stock is a nice option and light weight.
Only drawback I have found is that the barrel is light weight and POI is drastic if I use a suppressor.
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DMC , the SCAR 17 is nice but in a whole different pricing bracket with the likes of the KAC SR25 and LMT MWS. I would take either of those over the SCAR 17 for durability and Optic options. The SCAR 17 is horrible on Optics. They are notorious for damaging all but the most bombproof optics. Ask me how I know :o. The one thing they do have going for them is their light weight in comparison to well everything else. If price was no object my preferred .308 battle rifle would be the LMT MWS w/16" barrel.
Chris
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Okay, now I am going to open a whole new can of worms....
16 vs. 18-inch barrels? Why?
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simple answer: Longer range accuracy and higher velocity with longer barrels.
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Okay, now I am going to open a whole new can of worms....
16 vs. 18-inch barrels? Why?
In general as RB said longer barrel will give you higher muzzle velocities , resulting in better accuracy at longer distances. A rough rule of thumb is approx 25-40 fps per inch depending on caliber, with a bigger drop off the shorter you get. The reason I said a 16" barrel in the LMT is the intended purpose of the gun. As a battle rifle to provide a heavier round within the rifleman's general area of responsibility (0-300yds) the 16" barrel does everything as well as the 18" variant. If i was going with a precision or DMR rifle I may consider the 18" barrel. That said with the .308 results change very little from 16" to 18" out to 600-800yds. Beyond that I would be considering something other than .308 as the ballistics for it are not great beyond 800. I prefer 6.5CM for longer ranges(bolt gun).
Most of the legacy battle rifles will have an 18 or 20" barrel. The more modern designs are generally 18" at the long end.
Chris
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Thank you Chris and all that are playing.
I was chatting with Rocky yesterday over at PTR. Boy O' boy, he was very helpful and friendly to this 66-year old. They do not sell manufacture to consumer however, he gave me some distributers of their rifles that my buddy with his FFL can go to.
Based just on the exchange with Rocky, I am leaning heavily with buying a PTR rifle. :thumbsUp:
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Good choice Johny!
Chris
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Johnny, if you're going with the PTR (good gun BTW), commanderzero over at Notes from the Bunker has been having a few posts on modifying the mag releases on his- last post: http://www.commanderzero.com/ (http://www.commanderzero.com/)
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Thx RB for the link. :cheers:
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Johny, the paddle upgrade (if you get a gun that does not have it) is super easy. I have done many on older HKs and PTRs. From what I have seen all new PTRs are coming with the magazine release paddle.
Chris
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Thx Brother! :cheers:
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While you are over there check out the testing video on the LifeStraw. Might change your mind on them. Or verify it.
Nemo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4ido-pGUfE&ab_channel=Sci-Inspi (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4ido-pGUfE&ab_channel=Sci-Inspi)
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Verified mine Nemo- I have about 30 of them stashed away for unforeseen needs
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Ordered a PTR GIR 101 (https://ptr-us.com/product/gir-ptr-101/) today. Should be here by the end of the week.
Now I just need to find an optic for it.
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Johny
Are you looking more for a red dot or possibly an LPVO?
Chris
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LPVO. I was looking at Vortex Crossfire II and Primary Arms SLx 1-6x24mm to start with. However, I am open to any suggestions. :thumbsUp:
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I use the Crossfire II's on my ARs and have had zero issues with them.
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Congratulations on the new firearm, Johny! I think you'll enjoy it!
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LPVO. I was looking at Vortex Crossfire II and Primary Arms SLx 1-6x24mm to start with. However, I am open to any suggestions. :thumbsUp:
You wont be going wrong with either of those. The Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8x is also a very good choice. The Primary Arms PLx 1-8x compact is also a good option. If you can find one used for a good price or have a friend that can get one for dealer or LE pricing also look for Leupold Mk6 1-6x.
That is a pretty wide price range.
Chris
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Any ideas on what rig you wanna run e it?
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Thx Chris.
Deathstyle, sorry Brother, I did not understand your question.
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Do you have a chest rig or webbing set up in mind for your battle rifle?
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OH, got it Deathstyle. I am slow on the up-take. ;)
I haven't put any thought into it. Now that you bring it up, I will probably start with a 7.62x51 battle belt set up similarly to my 5.56 BB. Then see what is out there for a vest that fits 7.62 mags. I have a plate carrier that I do not use except for a CQB drama.
Any suggestions? ;D
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Initially, you could use the same battle belt, just change the magazine pouches. :gunner:
After using the PTR 91, you may find that you prefer that over a 5.56 firearm. A 7.62 certainly speaks with authority. At a previous location we lived in a wide valley, and when I used the HK 91, it would echo throughout the valley. :dance: There are military surplus mag pouches for the 91 magazines, and I know RTG has plenty of surplus magazines which are decent.
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SADF pattern 70 web belt would be the tits but hard to find nowadays.
Check out ATS tactical chest harness they have 4 mag rigs. One split front and 1 single piece
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Thank you gentlemen.
Having a challenge of hooking up the FFL to my order. My FFL friend, faxed in a copy of his FFL Sunday and a note saying this FFL is connected to my order number.
I am sure it will all work out in the end however, it would be nice if one thing I ordered showed up without issues. LOL.
Stay tuned. :popcorn:
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I had a FFL speed bump last week. Placed an order, and the vendor website had a FFL search engine associated with the site. I chose a local FFL that I've used before, and waited for shipping information. The next day I received an e-mail indicating that the local FFL needed to send their paperwork to the vendor, even though the local FFL was already listed in the vendor's database. Made the request to the local FFL, and the firearm was shipped later in the day. They must have shipped it UPS second day, because the firearm arrived at my local FFL two days later. So, order placed on a Monday afternoon, and the gun was at my local FFL by Thursday morning. I really didn't expect it that quickly seeing how shipping speeds have sucked recently.
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:facepalm: it is always something. LOL
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As a "meat hunter", I would timidly add two bits.
The difference in barrel length comes down to two and really, only two factors.
Are you depending on this weapon to serve for LONG range?
or are you (mostly)
Depending on this weapon to be "handy" day in day out basis within the average ranges you might (probably) would engage on home turf?
I have opted for the shorter barrel. I have never practiced "long range", I treat rifle as a glorified bow. And in night/obscured visibility, this is probably not a bad thing to be habituated to.
"Stand off" capability is and surely will be of value. Having someone in your MAG with something like a Creedmoor, drilling the bull at 600 yards might prove a huge benefit.
But looked at on a statistical basis. I lean towards "close in" and the easier handling of a shorter barrel. Certainly adequate for most of what we might encounter if homesteads threatened by desperate "supplicants".
But what do I know? Not much. Only worked on critters who didn't plan ahead or shoot back.
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We figured out the issue on the holdup of my new rifle. My FFL business is in NYS, I live in PA. They are nervous sending a firearm to a NY FFL dealer as the rifle is illegal in NY. It has a threaded barrel with the flash suppressor not pinned and the 20-round mags it comes with.
My FFL had to send them a email stating that he is aware the rifle is illegal in NYS however, he was just doing the transfer to a resident in PA.
NYS FFL can do a long gun transfer (Non-Class 3) to any person in any state that the weapons is allowed to be owned. Handguns are a whole different story though. :facepalm:
I do understand the concern of the distributer as they do not want to deal with a return. Hopefully, this will leave the distributor today. Then I can fill out the 4473 Monday or Tuesday after it arrives. Its always something. :facepalm:
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Rifle was released yesterday. Suppose to leave the distributer today via Fed Ex. Should be at FFL Saturday.
Sounds like a good reason to go north of the border to have a nice 'dinner out' with some good friends.
Ordered 10-mags, the PA 1x6 scope & Midwest Ind. Cantilever scope mount, Dead Air proprietary KeyMo Muzzle Brake for my .30 cal. suppressor, 500-rounds of ammo, and a Magpul padded sling. Gee, what have I forgotten? Maybe a Steiner IR Laser? No, I will hold off on that as I do not want to break the bank. ;D
A review and pic's to come in the near future.
Thanks to all that offered their 3 cents. :cheers:
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You're going to need lots more ammo. There's a H&K magazine loader that would be helpful. Also, you may want to purchase an ejection port buffer, if you plan on reloading your brass.
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Given how blessed you are to have a battle rifle with mags so cheap. Id argue you should buy wayyyy more mags. Unless you're on a budget. Then Id suggest making a monthly purchase of even more mags over time.
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Oh yeah Deathstyle :thumbsUp:
Jackalope, JC Dodge told me that the ejection port buffer may not work on my rifle due in part to the welded rail. He mentioned that at a bare minimum, I might have to do some minor surgery via Dremel to make it work. If I wasn't so far away from CJS06, I would ask him to guide me in the operation. Maybe worth a trip to buy ya' dinner at Evelin's Brother. ;)
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Forgot about the welded rail on the PTR. The original HK 91 doesn't have a rail. I guess I'd prefer a rail over an ejection buffer. But the original sights work fine, they work well enough to have taken many white-tail deer. In fact, the first deer I ever harvested was taken with a HK 91, with open sights. It's also the gun I preferred when guiding clients while hunting black bears.
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Johny
The ejection port buffer is really only a significant item if you plan on reloading your brass. HK91s are notorious for how hard they are on brass. Between the chamber flutes indenting the brass and the ejection port denting them, some people (not all) dont bother reloading brass from 91s.
As Jackalope said I would go for the rail over the buffer if you need to pick one. I have done a few buffer installs on current PTRs, its not that bad. I would be happy to help you out if you get back up here some time. It will be great to catch up.
Chris
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:cheers: