Author Topic: Fullsize Handguns are fun - But are they a good choice 4 us?  (Read 174 times)

Offline Erick

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Fullsize Handguns are fun - But are they a good choice 4 us?
« on: March 06, 2018, 04:47:38 PM »
I dont want to write  a novel so here it is in bullet points:


-In Phase Zero, the "steady State" or "Shaping Phase" .. also known as left-of-boom. Compact gun for concealed carry will have the greatest utility for us (except those open carry activists.. my hat off to you!)

-Same goes for phase one... It's right-of-boom buts most PPL still perceive normalcy (maybe are waiting for the power to come back on etc etc) even though the event is underway.

-In Phase Two, the kinetic phase, as concealment holds no  or little value , we are now using rifles or Carbines for maximum effectiveness.

-Perhaps in Phase 3 when we are much less kinetic than Phase 2 but some deterrence can be accomplished via Open Carry. But when it comes to firearms they are non critical in Phase 3. And by the time you are in Phase 3 most of the survival dice have already been cast.

So in summary, while full size handguns are tremendous fun and feel better in the hand than compacts. Rationally I dont see a lot of hard requirements for a Prepper for full size handguns.

Full disclosure. I own a nice selection of full size handguns and I enjoy them quite a bit... but thats really more the hobbyist in me coming out not the panning prepper..and if I was a younger guy or somene who is on a budget.. I would focus my $$ on 1 AR Carbine ( configured as an M4gery) and 1 Compact 9mm handgun and extra money would go to Ammo+ training (and other gear).

Discuss  :dance:
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Online Kbop

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Re: Fullsize Handguns are fun - But are they a good choice 4 us?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2018, 06:06:51 PM »
phase 2 - as someone mentioned on this forum - the hand gun is used to fight your way to your long gun.  the full size has more rounds per mag, typically.
phase 0 and 1 - it attracts too much attention as an EDC - especially if open carried.

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Offline CJS06

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Re: Fullsize Handguns are fun - But are they a good choice 4 us?
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2018, 06:35:57 PM »
I believe that the full size handgun definitely has a strong place and may be a better choice. Even in Phase Zero or 1 where a concealing handgun is important.  Of course this is somewhat weather dependent and size of the individual.  It is not hard to conceal a full size handgun with loose fit clothing. Ideally you should want to carry the closest to full size that you can. The advantages are capacity, control-ability, and accuracy that come with a full size over a compact. For some that may be a midsize such as a Glock 19 sized gun as opposed to a full G17 sized gun. I regularly carry a full size M&P with light. There is no doubt about its advantages over a compact such as a Shield. 

In phase 2 ideally a Carbine is the best option but as a secondary arm a full size handgun is ideal. If the carbine runs dry or malfunctions a solid performing handgun definitely is not of little value. Also as Kbop pointed out if you need to fight to your carbine a full size gun has significant advantage over a compact.

I also own and train with a few different options. If I were  forced to focus it would be on a Carbine set up as a Recce gun (widest range of capabilities) and a full size 9mm handgun. Then the remaining budget would go into ammo and training.

Whatever it is a person chooses they will be better served with more training than buying more varied types of guns.

Chris



Offline Jackalope

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Re: Fullsize Handguns are fun - But are they a good choice 4 us?
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2018, 07:40:01 PM »
    I switch back and forth between a full sized pistol and a compact pistol.  Both are carried concealed, but obviously the compact firearm is easier to conceal.  They are both the same caliber, and they function similarly.  Occasionally, I'll carry the compact firearm on my person, but have the full sized weapon locked in a vault in my vehicle and protected by a guard dog, so I have ready access if the situation warrants a full sized handgun.  The compact firearm is carried when I'm at a social event, or a meeting, or perhaps for a medical appointment.  The full sized weapon is carried when I'm working at the homestead, or in the woods, or even when going into town.  The seasons also effect which weapon is carried, as it's easier to conceal something small when you're just wearing shorts and a t-shirt.  I guess I'd carry the full sized handgun all the time once we reach Phase 2 and above.

    When hiking or cycling I use a Hill People Gear Recon Kit Bag which allows me to carry my firearm concealed with other necessary gear.  The Recon Kit Bag is a mini pack that uses a harness which allows the bag to rest upon your chest.  It permits quick access to your gear, and it allows some flexibility to mount additional pouches for radios, magazines etc.  I've worn it while passing LEO's ad it doesn't attract any attention. It's a great way to carry keys and your wallet too.

Offline Nemo

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Re: Fullsize Handguns are fun - But are they a good choice 4 us?
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2018, 09:54:14 PM »
I have a choice of which is my carry for that day or part of day.  Various EDCs are available along with long guns.  So those issues discussed is not a problem.

Well, I did before I had to sell them for scripts and bills and all that stuff.  Now I am down to just a couple which are open carry (5906) and concealed, 3.5" barrel 1911.  I have to go with what I got.

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Offline lewisp

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Re: Fullsize Handguns are fun - But are they a good choice 4 us?
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2018, 12:57:21 PM »
I think we need to keep in mind that everybody can have different requirements for a pistol. From the environment where they may need to carry, to their physical ability to do so. I am fortunate to have the stature to comfortably conceal a G17 and a couple of mags with little hassle. I also work out in the sticks on my farm. Nowhere near the office/urban jungle some others contend with. If I had to pick ONE, it would likely be the G19. Easy to carry CCW, and I would not feel undergunned pulling it out of my pants, clicking on a light of some sort and dropping it into the safariland holster on my battle belt. The SEALs have abandoned their legacy P226s for the G19. This is the single gun that they say will now answer all of their requirements from deep cover/concealment to overt battle kit. My personal views are that the G19 sized pistol can be enough gun for all requirements. And to show fairness, I don't care what flavor you pick either. Smith, Springfield, Sig, whatever. They all make a mid-sized option. I have used them all, all good choices.
 I do find the Phase idea interesting, as I have never thought about it that way. If the regular and open carry of rifles is needed, and the appearance out and around the public produces no out cry, we are truly in a different place. I think we would want to be as strapped as we can be. That said, I would likely have a G17 with an extended mag in my holster!!
  2 thumbs up on Hill People Gear. I have used their recon chest pack for everything. Horeback riding, downhill and X-country skiing, road and trail biking as well as hiking and snowshoeing. Carry a lot of gear in there, tight to the body and  never in the way. Sleep with it on if needed, no issues. Give them a look.
 

Offline grizz

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Re: Fullsize Handguns are fun - But are they a good choice 4 us?
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2018, 03:21:19 PM »
I keep it simple, carry as big a gun as YOU can safely handle.

.454 in the woods and .45acp all other times, but thats just me  :cowboy:
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Offline pkveazey

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Re: Fullsize Handguns are fun - But are they a good choice 4 us?
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2018, 08:31:29 PM »
In a SHTF situation, I think the bigger the better. A big gun can handle small or large threats. With that said, I don't think that Every Day Carry fits that category from a Liability standpoint. I once read a long article about the ideal pistol for self defense. Surprisingly, the end result was the 380 semi-automatic. If you use a 44 Magnum, 357 Magnum, 45 Desert Eagle, or other hand canon, that is exactly the way it will be described when you are sitting in court and you will have a hard time justifying how you you were not OUT LOOKING FOR TROUBLE. If you carry a 22, 25, or 32 caliber, you will be described as carrying a Saturday Night Special, which will characterize you as some form of low life. You need the Goldie Locks Gun. The 380 fits that category about as well as possible. Double stack magazines don't help your case either. Based on what I read, I chose a 380 with a 7 round magazine and I carry 3 extra magazines. Anyone who thinks the 380 is not an effective weapon is invited to stand 25 feet in front of me while I fire it at them. Even though the 380 is a 9mm Kurt(short), it is still a 9mm. The 9x19mm parabellum (Luger) is considered a magnum round and it can easily penetrate the bad guy. It also can continue through and hit a good guy. This is just a little food for thought and I can guarantee you that in a SHTF situation, I will be carrying my 357 and my Carbine. My 380 will become my ankle gun.

Offline Erick

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Re: Fullsize Handguns are fun - But are they a good choice 4 us?
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2018, 04:14:03 PM »
In a SHTF situation, I think the bigger the better. A big gun can handle small or large threats. With that said, I don't think that Every Day Carry fits that category from a Liability standpoint. I once read a long article about the ideal pistol for self defense. Surprisingly, the end result was the 380 semi-automatic. If you use a 44 Magnum, 357 Magnum, 45 Desert Eagle, or other hand canon, that is exactly the way it will be described when you are sitting in court and you will have a hard time justifying how you you were not OUT LOOKING FOR TROUBLE. If you carry a 22, 25, or 32 caliber, you will be described as carrying a Saturday Night Special, which will characterize you as some form of low life. You need the Goldie Locks Gun. The 380 fits that category about as well as possible. Double stack magazines don't help your case either. Based on what I read, I chose a 380 with a 7 round magazine and I carry 3 extra magazines. Anyone who thinks the 380 is not an effective weapon is invited to stand 25 feet in front of me while I fire it at them. Even though the 380 is a 9mm Kurt(short), it is still a 9mm. The 9x19mm parabellum (Luger) is considered a magnum round and it can easily penetrate the bad guy. It also can continue through and hit a good guy. This is just a little food for thought and I can guarantee you that in a SHTF situation, I will be carrying my 357 and my Carbine. My 380 will become my ankle gun.

PK: Because "bigger is better" (within reason) there is little reason to prefer a handgun, even if it is "full size" over a Carbine once you entered the kinetic phase.

The point of my post was that prekinetic phase we will most likely conceal and therefore compact guns are our high payoff tool.
Once we are in kinetic phase we will jump right to the next step in capability which is a rifle or a Carbine.
A handgun no matter how fullsize will always be inadequate when compared to a longgun.

In our world there would be little plausible use for them.... (except maybe once the kinetic phase is over + we just want something on our hips .. kind alike a cop... but by then there will be LOTS of free battlefield pickup as the US population will have shrunk to a fraction of its size).


The main reason full size handguns exist has nothing to do with a prepper's operational concept but mostly due to gov't use ( military and police... which are on a different requirements set due to a distinct, from us, operational environment).. For example there is no reason for beat cops to carry a carbine wherever they go writing tickets etc... but they dont need to conceal either.. so full size handgun there you go.
So the fullsize handgun market is mostly LE.

Full size handguns are fun and I also own a couple but they dont fit a proper analysis of requirements of a prepper.

So for anyone new to shooting and who wants to get into it as a prepper my recommend a compact handgun and a long gun such as an AR which covers 100% of plausible applications for a prepper.

(An exception is I maintain a small fleet of full size revolvers to train people new to guns, both in the now, phase 0, and in any future phasing ...but thats a training not operational requirement and it is driven by the full size revolvers simplicity and ability to illustrate many aspects of firearms while being simple and easy to use and forcing good trigger control...)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 06:08:52 PM by Erick »
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Offline grizz

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Re: Fullsize Handguns are fun - But are they a good choice 4 us?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2018, 12:56:05 PM »
In a SHTF situation, I think the bigger the better. A big gun can handle small or large threats. With that said, I don't think that Every Day Carry fits that category from a Liability standpoint. I once read a long article about the ideal pistol for self defense. Surprisingly, the end result was the 380 semi-automatic. If you use a 44 Magnum, 357 Magnum, 45 Desert Eagle, or other hand canon, that is exactly the way it will be described when you are sitting in court and you will have a hard time justifying how you you were not OUT LOOKING FOR TROUBLE. If you carry a 22, 25, or 32 caliber, you will be described as carrying a Saturday Night Special, which will characterize you as some form of low life. You need the Goldie Locks Gun. The 380 fits that category about as well as possible. Double stack magazines don't help your case either. Based on what I read, I chose a 380 with a 7 round magazine and I carry 3 extra magazines. Anyone who thinks the 380 is not an effective weapon is invited to stand 25 feet in front of me while I fire it at them. Even though the 380 is a 9mm Kurt(short), it is still a 9mm. The 9x19mm parabellum (Luger) is considered a magnum round and it can easily penetrate the bad guy. It also can continue through and hit a good guy. This is just a little food for thought and I can guarantee you that in a SHTF situation, I will be carrying my 357 and my Carbine. My 380 will become my ankle gun.

At least with the bigger calibers you will more than likely be ALIVE and able to defend yourself in court
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