Unchained Preppers
General Category => Security & Survival => Topic started by: 505th.NM.Militia on August 30, 2011, 07:49:57 PM
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Ok, slow down there quickdraw! I know this topic was beaten to DEATH, resurrected, shot to bits, came back as a zombie, and finally put down by pickaxe, but not before it killed our former board! That being said I was watching video's on youtube and could not find one awesome AR- 15 versus AK- 47 video! So guess what thatguy and I were thinking...that's right, trotting the old corpse out one more time! Hopefully, with your help, it will be an awesome video! (Remember, it will be done in the no bullshit thatguy style!)
Here's what I need from you...
I sincerely want your well thought out, stand by your statement, comparative analysis of these weapons. Consider it almost as a WIKI. This is going to include facts, but not opinion. Also, no post hoc fallacy, ie "After this, THEREFORE, because of this." An example would be, "The AK is not effective in certain situations, because it is being used by countries other than America." I know this may be a bad example, but essential what I am saying is lets keep this intelligent, polite, and helpful. Not only will this help us to make more awesome content for our board, but there are new guys looking for this information EVERYDAY. Lets give them something to sink their teeth into.
This board will be closely monitored to ensure quality of information.
Thanks guys and gals!
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well this may not be Wiki-worthy, but these are my thoughts.
http://www.youtube.com/user/NOLA556?feature=mhee#p/u/13/5p_SNkZhEcM
(VR to Reaver... lol 8))
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I actually purged quite a bit of my video's. And that was one of them.
The AK47 has looser tolerances, meaning less must be in order and it will still work correctly.
The AK47 also pushes a much heavy bullet. IMO a .30 Caliber Heavy hitter is quite a bit better for the role it was designed for. " Assault "
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I actually purged quite a bit of my video's. And that was one of them.
that's cool Reaver. I just posted that because it's my honest feelings about that debate. the "VR" aspect of it is irrelevant as far as this thread goes.
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Oh, yeah Roger that Solid copy.
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I enjoy the sheer ugliness that is the AK-47. No one ever said it would win a beauty contest, but I also mean as far as the sheer violence of action: Bigger bullets, more reliable hi-capacity magazine options, like REAVER said, lower tolerances for operation. The AR is amazing at distance, for the sheer lightness of it, and its proven EFFECTIVE tactical uses.
What are some good drills we could perform where you wouldn't think either would have an edge, so that the sheer essence of the firearm can shine, IE: Shouldered firing at 25 - 50 yards. I honestly can't guess which will do better.
/Toss me a mag REAVER!
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I enjoy the sheer ugliness that is the AK-47. No one ever said it would win a beauty contest, but I also mean as far as the sheer violence of action: Bigger bullets, more reliable hi-capacity magazine options, like REAVER said, lower tolerances for operation. The AR is amazing at distance, for the sheer lightness of it, and its proven EFFECTIVE tactical uses.
What are some good drills we could perform where you wouldn't think either would have an edge, so that the sheer essence of the firearm can shine, IE: Shouldered firing at 25 - 50 yards. I honestly can't guess which will do better.
/Toss me a mag REAVER!
here's a suggestion: GET DIRTY! I wanna see you and TG both rolling around in the mud while firing... one of you with an AK, and one of you with an AR, just to debunk the myth about AR's.... and if the AR jams... well shit... I'll STFU then.... lol
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the AR has more firepower simply because less recoil gets more rounds on target faster. so the AR will have an edge because of that on anything needing more then a single shot. perhaps the edge is very little in some situations but never the less its an edge. mag changes for the common person will be smoother with an AR. for one theres no rocking of the mags for two the bolt locks to the rear on the last round.
these are a few things that just came to mind.
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the AR has more firepower simply because less recoil gets more rounds on target faster. so the AR will have an edge because of that on anything needing more then a single shot. perhaps the edge is very little in some situations but never the less its an edge. mag changes for the common person will be smoother with an AR. for one theres no rocking of the mags for two the bolt locks to the rear on the last round.
these are a few things that just came to mind.
*thumbs up* ..... hint...
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Within the context of prepping in the United States:
There is nothing wrong with either rifle. They both require cleaning and will only hit the target if you shoot them properly.
The AK is great. Ridiculously reliable action. Powerful cartridge. Menacing appearance. Relatively inexpensive.
That being said...
I would highly recommend an AR-15 rifle in 5.56x45 as one's primary combat arm for a few simple reasons:
1) It's used by nearly every police department, military unit and average person in this nation
2) It can be quickly converted to a multitude of other calibers
3) Almost every gun store has a large supply of replacement parts and complete rifles
4) Ammo commonality
5) Evil black rifles scare liberals
6) Can be easily outfitted for any role and mission
7) Vital parts can be swapped between rifles no matter what company made them (very few exceptions)
I originally had an AK, but decided that in the long run, I didn't want to depend on foreign imports of ammunition (which will be cut in the event of martial law). Basic 5.56 is only $3 more per 20. Not too bad.
For me personally, it came down to a question of supply and logistics. I still love the AK and might get another one in the future.
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#5 is the only reason that you need. ;D
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I was at the range 2 days ago and the dude in the same lane as me had a jam. He had a genuine COLT ar-15 20-inch. My WASR-10 kept chugging along next to him while he was trying to clear it. His bad-ass ACOG optics did him zero good at that point. The things you see at the hundred yard lane...
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1) It's used by nearly every police department, military unit and average person in this nation A police & military setting is a lot different than a WROL setting. The police can go to the station and clean it, the military unit can go back to the barracks and clean it.
2) It can be quickly converted to a multitude of other calibers, It can be converted, Just not that quickly. The only one that is quick is the .22 LR conversion. Other than that a barrel change on an AR designed weapon is not quick.
3) Almost every gun store has a large supply of replacement parts and complete rifles Again, for a WROL situation. You are not going to stroll up into the store & buy pieces parts, not to mention. An AK doesn't need the extra parts.
4) Ammo commonality How many people carry 7.62x39? As many as 5.56x45? Id say its a close race.
5) Evil black rifles scare liberalsCompletely Irrelevant
6) Can be easily outfitted for any role and missionAs can an AK with rails
7) Vital parts can be swapped between rifles no matter what company made them (very few exceptions) Are you saying the Bolt carrier and Bolt from a Draco won't work in a Maadi?
Just some points, All in good debate.
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the AR has more firepower simply because less recoil gets more rounds on target faster. so the AR will have an edge because of that on anything needing more then a single shot. perhaps the edge is very little in some situations but never the less its an edge. mag changes for the common person will be smoother with an AR. for one theres no rocking of the mags for two the bolt locks to the rear on the last round.
these are a few things that just came to mind.
I'll give you the mag changes are easier on the AR. As to AK recoil, you need to try one of these and see if it doesn't change your mind.
http://www.parts4ak47.com/ak-47_accessories/product/AK-47_J-Tac_Recoil_Compensator.html
Short video of J-Tac equipped AK folder in full auto vrs. Ak without the J-Tac.
http://www.gunaccessories.com/AK47-MAK90/J-Tac47.wmv
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2) It can be quickly converted to a multitude of other calibers, It can be converted, Just not that quickly. The only one that is quick is the .22 LR conversion. Other than that a barrel change on an AR designed weapon is not quick.
I think he meant swapping out uppers, other than that I completely agree with you.
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I think my brain just imploded. Total brain fart on that subject.
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the AR has more firepower simply because less recoil gets more rounds on target faster. so the AR will have an edge because of that on anything needing more then a single shot. perhaps the edge is very little in some situations but never the less its an edge. mag changes for the common person will be smoother with an AR. for one theres no rocking of the mags for two the bolt locks to the rear on the last round.
these are a few things that just came to mind.
I'll give you the mag changes are easier on the AR. As to AK recoil, you need to try one of these and see if it doesn't change your mind.
[url]http://www.parts4ak47.com/ak-47_accessories/product/AK-47_J-Tac_Recoil_Compensator.html[/url]
Short video of J-Tac equipped AK folder in full auto vrs. Ak without the J-Tac.
[url]http://www.gunaccessories.com/AK47-MAK90/J-Tac47.wmv[/url]
yeah that looks like it reduces recoil somewhat but i wouldnt say it matches the AR...
heres a better video showing the recoil with this brake.. i think its the same one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pSRD-sdPsk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pSRD-sdPsk)
unless you weigh 100lbs soaking wet an AR wont recoil anywhere near as much as this AK does with the brake in question attached.
heres a video i just randomly grabbed to compare with another guy shooting an AR standing position...but WTF is really going on in this video?!?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09EElCe7ccg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09EElCe7ccg&feature=related)
troopers out getting in some good target practice while on duty?.....
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Yep, I saw that video about a couple of years ago. With the J-Tak the Ak will stay on target pretty much the same as an AR. They guy in this video must be pretty small. Even my wife doesn't move around that much when shooting her WASR-10 with J-Tac. For an AK, the J-Tac with a red dot makes for very fast repeat shots.
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Yep, I saw that video about a couple of years ago. With the J-Tak the Ak will stay on target pretty much the same as an AR. They guy in this video must be pretty small. Even my wife doesn't move around that much when shooting her WASR-10 with J-Tac. For an AK, the J-Tac with a red dot makes for very fast repeat shots.
ive watched a few vids of this jtak now and can say with decent confidence it dosent match an AR in recoil...from the looks of it its about like what an AR does to petite woman when fired by an average size male... sorry if my opinion dosent jive with the AK guys agenda but im sticking with it.
but then again i havent actually shot one and am basing my opinion on watching others shoot it...but i think in this case thats enough to form a somewhat educated opinion.
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I was at the range 2 days ago and the dude in the same lane as me had a jam. He had a genuine COLT ar-15 20-inch. My WASR-10 kept chugging along next to him while he was trying to clear it. His bad-ass ACOG optics did him zero good at that point. The things you see at the hundred yard lane...
And my FrankenGun kept running while 505th's ak went down due to lack of lube.
We should keep this thread factual not anecdotal.
Anecdotal Evidence: refers to evidence from anecdotes. Because of the small sample, there is a larger chance that it may be true but unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise unrepresentative of typical cases.
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:) Ken I don't have an agenda for the AK. I'll pick up an AR as quick as I will an AK if I don't have to shoot through something. You had said that the AR will put more lead down field quicker because of less recoil which implied that it had quicker target acquisition. With a properly set up AK that isn't actually the case under 200 yards. I'm not trying to be argumentative or attacking you. I just know from shooting both.
The two advantages I give the AR are target distance and weight. Their reliability is good if you keep them lubed. I've read claims where some ranges don't clean them hardly ever and they still shoot. I wouldn't bet my life on that. Still, if I need a rifle quick and there is an AR lying in a mud puddle I'm going to grab it and start pulling the trigger while issuing a short prayer that I hear a bang instead of a click.
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505's AK went down due to lack of lube? I've never heard of that happening before. Normally the only place you would lube them is on the inside rails with a tiny bit of white grease. That's just to prevent wear (as in get 80,000 rounds out of it instead of 50,000.) and wouldn't have anything to do with whether the gun operates. Lube for operation is more of an AR issue because of the closer tolerances.
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Thats what I would have thought too Sledge, but there was enough friction to keep it from completing a full cycle of the bolt. It would chamber a new round but wouldn't cock the hammer. I don't know exactly what was causing it but I know it went away when we put some oil in the gun.
The whole point is that 1000Meter saw something and I saw the opposite. Neither one makes a difference because 1 instance isn't enough to make it fact. Anything and everything can happen 1 time. Ask Boone he was a fisherman, I would hazard to say that he has seen all kinds of crazy shit happen once. Crazier things than an AK jambing or an AR that wouldn't.
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I chose the ak Bucause. I like it and it gets the job done. [img]http://www.smileydesign.n
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If you follow the firearms industry at all, you will know that the ar15 platform has seen many changes to help with reliability. gas piston systems, Angled cutting for the feed ramps and new types of coatings to keep it from jams and issues
i believe the Ak47 is the best Semi auto rifle made. it is simple, it is idiot proof, its heavy and made of steel( depending on what type you get) but i feel that most of the common Semi Auto varents out in the U.S. have been cut and chopped down that it ruins it or at least lessens the rifle in some way. yes you have a heavy hitting round that is good out to 200 yards in the right hands. i have seen countless video's where the ak kicks the ar's ass AND vis versa.
I think at this point if you are looking at both rifles and not the ammo they carry, there isnt much difference as far as reliability. if you want a heavy round and want to let your bad guy get that close. get the ak47
if you want to put some distance or more rounds on target: get the ar15
if you want both get anything in a 308 :))
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There are a lot of great posts here fellas! I guess it just wouldn't be AK vs AR without getting down and DIRTY! >:D As far as my AK not cycling, I have to insist THATGUY that we had installed the long dog 5" compliance break and there is still a chance it was fucking with the gas exchange re robbing the cycle of needed pressure. I might sound like a total idiot but....
Anecdote!
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Dude it has nothing to do with my gunsmithery. Adding a longer break would only increase gas pressure thusly increacing the force on the piston. [img]http://www.smileydesign.n
I would like to bring another issue into the fray, Weight!
According to Wikipedia the weight of these rifles with a loaded mag is,
M16, 7.9lbs AK47, 11.5lbs. That is a 3.6lbs difference. Keep in mind that these are Vietnam era firearms and the AK47s now use stamped sheetmetal for the receiver which reduce the weight consideralby while the M16 series increase barrel thickness and the size of some parts thusly increasing the weight of that rifle.
But at the time that difference in weight allowed an American GI to carry almost 4 loaded mags in addition to the one in his rifle for the for the same poundage of an AK with one mag. That is huge guys.
Now if we look at modern weights we will see that they are meeting in the middle these days.
M4 w/loaded mag, 7.3lbs AK103 w/loaded mag, 9.3lbs... oh wait the M4 weighs less than the AK still by 2lbs which is 2 loaded 30 round mags in addition to the rifle w/mag.
Another area where the AK gets its fat ass kicked (biased opinion) is the weight of the loaded mags.
An AR aluminium mag with 30 rounds (who loads 30 anyhow?) in it weighs .99lbs. always has always will.
The AK47's steel mag is currently being made out of thinner sheet metal than it was originally so its weight is down from 2lbs to a slimmer 1.8lbs.
Which means that the combat loadout of 6 mags weighs (pretty standard right?)
AR, 5.94lbs
AK, 10.8lbs
Thats 4.86lbs difference or 4.909 AR mags heaver so if I wanted to play the macho man game and carry the same weight as 505th.NM.Militia then I would be packing 13 mags to his 6.... who was saying something about which platform has more firepower??
It should be apparant by now that I am biased but when you talk about the key issues like weight, domestic production of parts and ammo, ergonomics and then you throw in the increased accuracy at distance I say its a no brainer.
[url=http://www.freesmileys.or
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Daniel Defense M4 FOR THE WIN! [url=http://www.freesmileys.or
I've shot GAPatriot's AK before, its a kit and I like it a lot. One problem that I have with it, is its inaccuracy. I love the recoil that it has and the feel of the gun. I found it easy to shoot with me just first picking it up, I've always had a natural inclination to firearms though. I did notice more weight, as my M4 has nothing special on it, just iron sites and no rail. Of course, GAP's Kit is just a plain jane AK as well.
I did find that it took me just an extra part of a second to get the sights back on target and fire another shot compared to the lower recoil of my M4 at 100 yards. Not a big deal, though. I also don't like the sights on the AK at all, I like mine a lot better.
Also, I didn't find the mag changes that hard, but changing them out on the M4 is easier, and of course, it would be easier to teach someone else how to do the mag changes as well. I like that all I have to do with M4 is drop mag, put a new one in, and tap the left side and I'm back into the fight.
Funny thing is, that I've never had one single problem with my M4, no malfunction, no FTF or FTE in hundreds if not thousands of rounds. When we were out on the range, GAP's AK blew up, literally. One of his welds didn't hold, and KABOOM! I joked about the M4 still running flawlessly, and the AK being down for the count. Of course, this was manufacturing error on his part, because it was a kit build.
I think they both have advantages and disadvantages, but I'm going to be running an AK when SHTF if GAP and I are able to hook up at the BOL. I'll always keep my M4, though. I just love it for quite a few reasons.
If you're looking for a good M4, check out Daniel Defense. They do amazing quality work, and they also have the best customer support out of any firearm company that I've heard of. I called up there once, and spoke directly with the owner, he picked up and phone, and we had a great little chat. Answered all my questions and then some.
I also here they are gaining an incredibly huge name for quality in the market. Everyone I know who owns one, probably 10 or 15 people, have never had a single problem with one. If they did have a problem their customer service took care of the problem immediately and they just kept right on going. They will stand behind their product and make any problem right, literally.
https://danieldefense.com/
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they call AR "Barbie for men"... ok I can accept that.
consider this, though: many of those accessories have a functional purpose. one of my favorite mods I have on my gun is the Magpul BAD lever. bolt locked back on an empty mag, I'll bet any of you AK guys that in a side by side speed-reload comparison, my AR is back into the fight in a fraction of the time as your AK. not tryin to be a dickhead here, but all the AK KoolAid is starting to get to me.
now all that being said, I wish this debate wasn't just between AR and AK... I wouldn't mind Reaver throwing his FAL into the fray. I'm not familiar with those at all and I'd like to hear how it stacks up against the other two options.
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they call AR "Barbie for men"... ok I can accept that.
consider this, though: many of those accessories have a functional purpose. one of my favorite mods I have on my gun is the Magpul BAD lever. bolt locked back on an empty mag, I'll bet any of you AK guys that in a side by side speed-reload comparison, my AR is back into the fight in a fraction of the time as your AK. not tryin to be a dickhead here, but all the AK KoolAid is starting to get to me.
now all that being said, I wish this debate wasn't just between AR and AK... I wouldn't mind Reaver throwing his FAL into the fray. I'm not familiar with those at all and I'd like to hear how it stacks up against the other two options.
the BAD lever is a must for any AR owner IMHO
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a little something I whipped up for you guys just for the sake of being an inflammatory little bastard:
http://www.youtube.com/user/NOLA556?feature=mhee
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a little something I whipped up for you guys just for the sake of being an inflammatory little bastard:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/user/NOLA556?feature=mhee[/url]
nice music... [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
this is why i love my BAD lever
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It would chamber a new round but wouldn't cock the hammer. I don't know exactly what was causing it but I know it went away when we put some oil in the gun.
ive seen this happen and heard of it happening alot... it seems to be the most common AK issue...it has to do with the trigger group or something like that. when my bros did it he had it sent it so it was unclear what they fixxed but the hammer trigger area was the issue. if its chambering a round then its also going far enough back to cock the hammer... which leaves only the hammer triger area itself to be the issue.... try testing the resetting of the trigger by manually racking it... i bet it still does it even with a full stroke of the bolt.
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After a full stroke of the bolt it would fire ken and now that we keep the gun well lubed it hasn't had an issue.
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they are both good weapons i don't own an ak i would like to, but the main reason i have an ar is the area that im in and the people around me and in my group all have ar's. that being said if anything were to happen we would have no problem sharing mags and also like another person most police departments use the 5.56 and its our military standard, and with it being so widely used it could also be traded and traded for
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Oh my! My Ak (the only mods are a sling, flash hider, and a little 550' cord around the stock) is actually lighter than a fully loaded heavy barrel AR with the flashlight, laser, optics, etc. My AK will also drill through small to medium trees with little bullet deflection. I'll just shoot through a tree that dumbass is using as cover! AK wins. At least where I live.
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they are both good weapons i don't own an ak i would like to, but the main reason i have an ar is the area that im in and the people around me and in my group all have ar's. that being said if anything were to happen we would have no problem sharing mags and also like another person most police departments use the 5.56 and its our military standard, and with it being so widely used it could also be traded and traded for
NO! you're a dumbass! AK wins.... [url=http://yoursmiles.org/p-m
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they are both good weapons i don't own an ak i would like to, but the main reason i have an ar is the area that im in and the people around me and in my group all have ar's. that being said if anything were to happen we would have no problem sharing mags and also like another person most police departments use the 5.56 and its our military standard, and with it being so widely used it could also be traded and traded for
NO! you're a dumbass! AK wins....
look who is the dumbass, read what i typed i didnt say anything bad about the ak wiseguy i just said for my area it was my choice not that one is better than the other. [url=http://www.freesmileys.or (http://yoursmiles.org/p-m
[/quote)
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they are both good weapons i don't own an ak i would like to, but the main reason i have an ar is the area that im in and the people around me and in my group all have ar's. that being said if anything were to happen we would have no problem sharing mags and also like another person most police departments use the 5.56 and its our military standard, and with it being so widely used it could also be traded and traded for
NO! you're a dumbass! AK wins....
look who is the dumbass, read what i typed i didnt say anything bad about the ak wiseguy i just said for my area it was my choice not that one is better than the other. [url=http://www.freesmileys.or
([url]http://yoursmiles.org/p-m[/url]
[/quote)
lol... just a joke man.. I'm an AR guy. [url=http://www.freesmileys.or
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they are both good weapons i don't own an ak i would like to, but the main reason i have an ar is the area that im in and the people around me and in my group all have ar's. that being said if anything were to happen we would have no problem sharing mags and also like another person most police departments use the 5.56 and its our military standard, and with it being so widely used it could also be traded and traded for
NO! you're a dumbass! AK wins....
look who is the dumbass, read what i typed i didnt say anything bad about the ak wiseguy i just said for my area it was my choice not that one is better than the other. [url=http://www.freesmileys.or
([url]http://yoursmiles.org/p-m[/url]
[/quote)
lol... just a joke man.. I'm an AR guy.
my bad man still getting to know people. (http://www.freesmileys.or
[/quote)
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Oh my! My Ak (the only mods are a sling, flash hider, and a little 550' cord around the stock) is actually lighter than a fully loaded heavy barrel AR with the flashlight, laser, optics, etc. My AK will also drill through small to medium trees with little bullet deflection. I'll just shoot through a tree that dumbass is using as cover! AK wins. At least where I live.
How much does it weigh?
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Nola's not a dumbass...a little noid yes,but not a dumbass!
He lives in a bad area...hell,just the other day some pussy broke a beer bottle n stabbed him in the foot!
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Nola's not a dumbass...a little noid yes,but not a dumbass!
He lives in a bad area...hell,just the other day some pussy broke a beer bottle n stabbed him in the foot!
bwaahhaha! oh man that made me laugh. :))
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If you tell it as a war story,technicaly your not lieing!
;D
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Oh my! My Ak (the only mods are a sling, flash hider, and a little 550' cord around the stock) is actually lighter than a fully loaded heavy barrel AR with the flashlight, laser, optics, etc. My AK will also drill through small to medium trees with little bullet deflection. I'll just shoot through a tree that dumbass is using as cover! AK wins. At least where I live.
i don't know what trees look like where you live, but out here tree's 8" thick and smaller don't provide cover or concealment..........
but if you find a guy hiding behind an aspen tree by all means shoot the dumbass, lord knows we don't need him
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ok i guess i should expand upon my comment,
ak sure as hell ain't going through any tree more than 8" thick, and there sure ain't any trees that are that size or smaller that a human could use for cover
there does that make sense to you now?
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You cleared it right up for me thanks.
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a little something I whipped up for you guys just for the sake of being an inflammatory little bastard:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/user/NOLA556?feature=mhee[/url]
LOL Good video. I agree, with a little practice, I think reloading the AR is more simple.
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Daniel Defense M4 Torture Test
Daniel Defense understands that not all rifles are going to sit in a safe, perfectly clean, well lubricated, and under the umbrella of rust preventing desiccant bags. When in the hands of those protecting our country and our streets, these rifles will be subject to the elements of nature and flat out physically abused. The video you are about to watch will depict some of the harshest conditions these rifles will ever encounter. Over a two day period, we captured incredibly intense torture tests of our Daniel Defense M4 Carbine, Version 1. The torture test is broken down into the various tests performed by Daniel Defense employees and Larry Vickers. These are legitimate, no BS tests performed to gauge the durability of the Daniel Defense M4. The various tests are made to simulate real world environments, situations, and extreme circumstances.
Dirt Test
Water Test
Shrapnel Test
Rollover Test
Blast Test
Drop Tests
See the website for more description of torture: https://danieldefense.com/TortureTest
Watch the video! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfojMy1MWok&feature=player_embedded#!
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Boys & Girls......Redneck,
this si what i ment in the advancement of the ar15. you see all the torcher tests done and all the crazy things people do to ar's i think that they have equal reliablity based on what
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Daniel Defense M4 Torture Test
Daniel Defense understands that not all rifles are going to sit in a safe, perfectly clean, well lubricated, and under the umbrella of rust preventing desiccant bags. When in the hands of those protecting our country and our streets, these rifles will be subject to the elements of nature and flat out physically abused. The video you are about to watch will depict some of the harshest conditions these rifles will ever encounter. Over a two day period, we captured incredibly intense torture tests of our Daniel Defense M4 Carbine, Version 1. The torture test is broken down into the various tests performed by Daniel Defense employees and Larry Vickers. These are legitimate, no BS tests performed to gauge the durability of the Daniel Defense M4. The various tests are made to simulate real world environments, situations, and extreme circumstances.
Dirt Test
Water Test
Shrapnel Test
Rollover Test
Blast Test
Drop Tests
See the website for more description of torture: [url]https://danieldefense.com/TortureTest[/url]
Watch the video! [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfojMy1MWok&feature=player_embedded#[/url]!
Holy shit! I'm impressed. That M4 is an outstanding example of an AK reliability wannabe. :) [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co What is that saying, "Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery." I'll bet some where along the way the CEO of that company made the statement,"We need a reputation for reliability that equals that of an AK!" Looks like they are pretty damn close to achieving it.
Very impressive.
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probably true sledge, and i'm sure arsenal has been trying for years to reduce recoil and get "the accuracy of an ar15"
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Time to pitch in an pull your weight gang.. who has a helo that I can throw 505th's Draco out of? [url=http://yoursmiles.org/p-m
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Time to pitch in an pull your weight gang.. who has a helo that I can throw 505th's Draco out of?
Will 505th still be holding it? :D (http://yoursmiles.org/p-m
[/quote)
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probably true sledge, and i'm sure arsenal has been trying for years to reduce recoil and get "the accuracy of an ar15"
lol exactly... and it seems one is a LOT closer to there goal then the other...
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probably true sledge, and i'm sure arsenal has been trying for years to reduce recoil and get "the accuracy of an ar15"
lol exactly... and it seems one is a LOT closer to there goal then the other...
Ha! Ha! Ha! You guys kill me. :) Be happy. An Ak is plenty accurate for as far as I'm ever going to need it to reach. And I like the "you can run but there's not much you can hide behind" quality it offers.
There needs to be a topic on here covering what distances people think they'll be in a confrontation at if WROL occurs. Some seem to think they need to be able to engage at 500 to 800 or more yards. Could be I guess. Although, I'm pretty skeptical about that.
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probably true sledge, and i'm sure arsenal has been trying for years to reduce recoil and get "the accuracy of an ar15"
lol exactly... and it seems one is a LOT closer to there goal then the other...
And I like the "you can run but there's not much you can hide behind" quality it offers.
i really don't think the ak has as much penetration as you guys think it does, i know for a fact it wouldn't even pierce my house
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What's your house made out of Mountain? A 7.62x39 FMJ will go through two side by side 4x4's. That's one round. But depending on what a house is made out of it might be easier to put a few phosphorus rounds through the windows.
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What's your house made out of Mountain? A 7.62x39 FMJ will go through two side by side 4x4's. That's one round. But depending on what a house is made out of it might be easier to put a few phosphorus rounds through the windows.
it's a cabin, logs is at least 12" thick
windows are another story, although they are pretty good too
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Rednecks right :o People tend to over rate the AK and under rate the AR on penetration, shit I had a 7.62 round stop dead about half way through a 4x4 post, a fluke but I still know a 7.62 would have no problem ripping through my house... 5.56 not so much.
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[URL=http://www.smileyvault.co I'd say you're good to go unless someone brings a 50 cal or bigger in.
I live in a double wide mobile home so i haven't much hope. But then again someone would have to be insane to try a stacked entry.
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What's your house made out of Mountain? A 7.62x39 FMJ will go through two side by side 4x4's. That's one round. But depending on what a house is made out of it might be easier to put a few phosphorus rounds through the windows.
it's a cabin, logs is at least 12" thick
windows are another story, although they are pretty good too
ya don't say.... O0
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? am i missing something here.......
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Hello all, RON L here, OK< see all the argumets this side and that, so the Correct anwser is?????
What works for you? I'm one of those perople that never could decide what one was Best, as like tools in a Tool Box, BOTH have thier uses and thier Benifits and down sides? Thats why I see it as OWN BOTH!!!! I have Maddi AKM Clone, as well as a Franken AR with an Olympic Upper (Super Match) and Rock River Lower and less than 100 rnd s thought AR and 10K or so though the AK, BOTH work for me! Wife Prefers the AR, I like the mags availability ammo cost and parts swopage, the AK, I've seen few that needed parts (EVER) and ammo is still easy to find ow, Plus I have dies and Brass and bullets are available, so even if they cut off imports I'm still OK? Ya just gotta see what ya like better and run wit it? For your own Needs, For your own $, Avalibility ups and downs? If your fortunate to own Both, Good for you, you get to enjoy both sides of that they do best, RIGHT????
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One word: penetration. You ladies like superior penetration, right? AK wins. [url=http://yoursmiles.org/p-m
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I've asked you else where to include proof and I ask you here to do so again.
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One word: penetration. You ladies like superior penetration, right? AK wins.
sorry bro. if you load steel core ammo out of an AR you get just as good Penetration as an AK but having the Range.
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Prove it to yourself with this excercise. Clamp (2) 4 x 4's together, stand at 30 yards, and fire. The 7.62 x 39 fmj will penetrate that barrier, the 5.56 will not. Try any barrel length or bullet style you like out of that AR. You will not make it...
Horsepower. Foot-lbs of energy. AK wins.
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I've asked you else where to include proof and I ask you here to do so again.
Honestly it's common sense. Bigger bullet, higher muzzle velocity, deeper penetration. I'm not going to say definitively that the AK round would penetrate deeper than the AR, but I bet you it makes it into the AR vs. AK video!
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why I went with an ak-47.
Economics: I have an wasr-10/63 that I picked up for $450 and a sgl for $750. the sgl is in the range of some ARs but you get more quality of gun for the price with an AK. The 7.62 is cheaper to stockpile in number so I have 5,000 rounds of it. I do worry about the supply from Russia being cut due to political reasons but I have reasons why that should not be a problem: 7.62x39 is currently being made in in the USA, it is more expensive then the Russian but it is there (thats why I did not go with the 5.4x39). I buy my ammo in bulk and for every 1 round shot in training I buy 3 more rounds to keep up my stock. I have no reason to believe that the current USA government or local police will hand out 5.56 in a crisis(I do not want to depend on them for my ammo anyway). For Quality 5.556x45 I would just trade up to a .308 for the extra distance and power.
Durability: I want a weapon that doesn't need to have a lot of care to keep it going. I do not want to put away more cleaning supplies to clean my weapon then I have to. I have other things I need to stock up on. The steel Magazines are $8 a piece and they are very strong. If I had to dig something up out of the ground the mag would stand up to it. They are heavier then AR mags though.
Caliber: the 7.62x39 is not known for its accuracy but it is accurate enough to get the job done. When I used to hunt deer I dropped 2 at 330meters and 280 meters with an sks. It is harder to hit past 300meters with this caliber but thats why you train with it. I always think that in a shtf crisis that the Mutant Zombie Bikers will get around in vehicles (I live on the Flat Kansas praire). I want to get them while they are in there vehicle and not worry about not penetrating that vehicle
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As the Old Saying Goes "Differeht Strokes for different Folks"??
No one will ever always agree? Pick wat works for you, for sound reason and perfect that use? Lie the 9MM vs 45ACP, thier will never be a Full agreement on what to use? Like man, I PICK??? BOTH!! Lke AR and AK Gives me ammo versitility as well as cost savings and still common in Law Enforcement and folks Private stocks?
RON L
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As the Old Saying Goes "Differeht Strokes for different Folks"??
No one will ever always agree? Pick wat works for you, for sound reason and perfect that use? Lie the 9MM vs 45ACP, thier will never be a Full agreement on what to use? Like man, I PICK??? BOTH!! Lke AR and AK Gives me ammo versitility as well as cost savings and still common in Law Enforcement and folks Private stocks?
RON L
difference is we all know the 45acp beats the 9mm every day of the week [url=http://www.freesmileys.or
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As the Old Saying Goes "Differeht Strokes for different Folks"??
No one will ever always agree? Pick wat works for you, for sound reason and perfect that use? Lie the 9MM vs 45ACP, thier will never be a Full agreement on what to use? Like man, I PICK??? BOTH!! Lke AR and AK Gives me ammo versitility as well as cost savings and still common in Law Enforcement and folks Private stocks?
RON L
yes but if your accurate with a 9mm and alright with a 9mm. id tell the guy to get a 9mm. if you know your dope then you wil walk away
difference is we all know the 45acp beats the 9mm every day of the week (http://www.freesmileys.or
[/quote)
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Prove it to yourself with this excercise. Clamp (2) 4 x 4's together, stand at 30 yards, and fire. The 7.62 x 39 fmj will penetrate that barrier, the 5.56 will not. Try any barrel length or bullet style you like out of that AR. You will not make it...
Do the same with a piece of 3/8" thick mild steel. One of my friends kept touting how much better x39 was until we did that little exercise. If a piece of steel is safe from M855 no 7.62x39 currently available will even come close.
It is also noteworthy that penetration is a double-edged sword.
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I know I will hate myself in the morning for posting in here lol. I don't see why we don't all just shoot what works for us and move on to a new topic. Learn the manual of arms for your particular choice and leave it at that. They are both good platforms and both have drawbacks as well. I have nothing but respect for ak's as I have had many of them shot at me in anger. I however run Ar's because I have 24 years of trigger time on them and Uncle Sam spent more money than I will ever make teaching me what to do with them. For me it makes sense, for you maybe not. Drive on gentlemen.
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Sounds like sound advice to me!
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I know I will hate myself in the morning for posting in here lol. I don't see why we don't all just shoot what works for us and move on to a new topic. Learn the manual of arms for your particular choice and leave it at that. They are both good platforms and both have drawbacks as well. I have nothing but respect for ak's as I have had many of them shot at me in anger. I however run Ar's because I have 24 years of trigger time on them and Uncle Sam spent more money than I will ever make teaching me what to do with them. For me it makes sense, for you maybe not. Drive on gentlemen.
[URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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I'm going to say this once.
You will never see a AK-47, the last one was made in 1961, when I was in grade school, before most of you were born.
Any one that uses the liberal medias buzz words only helps the commies.
Find out WTF you own, either and AKS, or AKM, W, 74, what ever.
Each firearm platform has its pros and cons. You need to figure out by where you live, what terrain is around you. What the best is for your needs.
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sorry OONW... gotta do it man...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqlUrSeEOok&feature=related
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sorry OONW... gotta do it man...
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqlUrSeEOok&feature=related[/url]
He had a failure to feed with his AK? Man, I've never even had one yet with my AR, Knock on Wood. :)
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I'm going to say this once.
You will never see a AK-47, the last one was made in 1961, when I was in grade school, before most of you were born.
Any one that uses the liberal medias buzz words only helps the commies.
Find out WTF you own, either and AKS, or AKM, W, 74, what ever.
Each firearm platform has its pros and cons. You need to figure out by where you live, what terrain is around you. What the best is for your needs.
Just because its your gay ass pet peeve doesn't mean its mine. 1 of my AK47'S
has had about 10k through it, the other only about 500 & I have NEVER ever ever had an issue.
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I'm going to say this once.
You will never see a AK-47, the last one was made in 1961, when I was in grade school, before most of you were born.
Any one that uses the liberal medias buzz words only helps the commies.
Find out WTF you own, either and AKS, or AKM, W, 74, what ever.
Each firearm platform has its pros and cons. You need to figure out by where you live, what terrain is around you. What the best is for your needs.
so your an old fuck, whoopty doo
instead of bitching why not actually add some helpful insight?
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He had a failure to feed with his AK? Man, I've never even had one yet with my AR, Knock on Wood. :)
Usually this means you haven't shot it enough ;D
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He had a failure to feed with his AK? Man, I've never even had one yet with my AR, Knock on Wood. :)
Usually this means you haven't shot it enough ;D
Or he cleans it like a horny school teacher with a crome trailer hitch.
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He had a failure to feed with his AK? Man, I've never even had one yet with my AR, Knock on Wood. :)
Usually this means you haven't shot it enough ;D
Or he cleans it like a horny school teacher with a crome trailer hitch.
Or it has zero to do with cleaning and everything to do with lube and PMCS checks.
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That's funny.... I hardly ever need to do that with my [url=http://yoursmiles.org/p-m
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That's funny.... I hardly ever need to do that with my
Yeah sure. Messed up magazines never make an AK fail <img src="http://www.smileydes
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ok more that likely has been said but ARs are more reliable than people think and AKs are a lot more accurate than people think. but on that note i have an AK 74 (the 47s are not legal in my state. no RPKs sucks) the round is the very good anti personnel round. the 5.45x39 is the cheapest military caliber round, $4 for a box of 20. the guns themselves are accurate and reliable the mussel break is one of the best good surplus mags are in the $15 range the guns themselves are in the $500-900 range so if your on a budget and want to work through the comparatively slower reload to the AR, the AK is a good reliable choice to make. but all this aside its all personal preference the goal is to pick something and get good with it
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I believe the AK vs AR debate comes down to most folks budget. If I had the dough, I would just go for a LWRC in 6.8 SPC and reload after work everyday! Best of both with that combo. I believe most folks should go with an AK in either round, 5.45 or 7.62, due to getting the most practice possible for the money. I guess one could argue that you could almost practice for as cheap as an Ak, if you used steel .223. I would expect more FTF, FTE....etc. with that combo though. YMMV.
The point is, the proficiency with the weapon, will, in most cases, determine who will win the battle. Whatever a person decides on, get your ass out there and shoot it!!! Also, in a WROL situation, you WILL use what has ammo available for the weapon, no bullshit on that one! Either you have a weapon with ammo available or your shit outta luck! The idea of keeping whatever platform you have now will possible become irrelevant at that point.
God Bless 'Merica! [url=http://www.freesmileys.or
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I believe the AK vs AR debate comes down to most folks budget. If I had the dough, I would just go for a LWRC in 6.8 SPC and reload after work everyday! Best of both with that combo. I believe most folks should go with an AK in either round, 5.45 or 7.62, due to getting the most practice possible for the money. I guess one could argue that you could almost practice for as cheap as an Ak, if you used steel .223. I would expect more FTF, FTE....etc. with that combo though. YMMV.
The point is, the proficiency with the weapon, will, in most cases, determine who will win the battle. Whatever a person decides on, get your ass out there and shoot it!!! Also, in a WROL situation, you WILL use what has ammo available for the weapon, no bullshit on that one! Either you have a weapon with ammo available or your shit outta luck! The idea of keeping whatever platform you have now will possible become irrelevant at that point.
God Bless 'Merica!
For sure man! [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co (http://www.freesmileys.or
[/quote)
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Hey Lead, maybe the increase of FTEs with steel case ammo during training could be a good thing.
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Hey Lead, maybe the increase of FTEs with steel case ammo during <b>training</b> could be a good thing.
My thought exactly, that guy. I had my Sig P229 have a bunch of FTF's one day when I messed up my recoil spring and needed to change it out. It really helped me practice my FTF's in a real way, because I couldn't expect when it would happen, probably ever 10 rounds or so.
We usually load each others mags and put in a few empty brass or other device to make us clear the weapon and get a new round in there, anyway, but this way, it was completely unexpected and I had no idea if it would even FTF, and then boom, it would.
Its great practice, IMHO.
Sure you don't want failures when you're using your firearm in self-defense or in WROL, but in practice, FTF and FTE's especially at random are very welcome. You're going to have them when SHTF, so you better know how to be very surprised when you gun doesn't go bang when you need it, and you'll need to clear the weapon and get a new round in there. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co [url=http://www.freesmileys.or
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Hey Lead, maybe the increase of FTEs with steel case ammo during training could be a good thing.
Roger that! I believe that most well built AR companies ( Bravo, DD, Colt, etc.) won't experience this anyways.
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if you used steel .223. I would expect more FTF, FTE....etc. with that combo though. YMMV.
If you have a proper-spec 5.56 chamber and it's chrome-lined, you won't have them all that much. Unless of course your rifle short strokes with it.
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if you used steel .223. I would expect more FTF, FTE....etc. with that combo though. YMMV.
If you have a proper-spec 5.56 chamber and it's chrome-lined, you won't have them all that much. Unless of course your rifle short strokes with it.
Yah, as long as your got a proper gas system you should have no problem. Just to many M4 clones out there now that are not set up right.
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I was going to find out today if the Tul steel cased stuff worked well with my M4 because I was about to buy a crap load of it from wal-mart.
Well anyway, I chose to do my video response to That Guy today instead, but I'm about to find out soon how the steel case works in my M4.
It should be fine, because mine is mil-spec and is chromed lined so it should be all good to go. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
Also, why don't we have an M4 or M16 icon, but we have a AK-47? WTF?!?!?! LOL I smell conspiracy. haha
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I was going to find out today if the Tul steel cased stuff worked well with my M4 because I was about to buy a crap load of it from wal-mart.
Well anyway, I chose to do my video response to That Guy today instead, but I'm about to find out soon how the steel case works in my M4.
It should be fine, because mine is mil-spec and is chromed lined so it should be all good to go.
Yea we have a [url=http://www.freesmileys.or but no M4 ???? ( reaches for his tin foil hat) (http://www.smileyvault.co
Also, why don't we have an M4 or M16 icon, but we have a AK-47? WTF?!?!?! LOL I smell conspiracy. haha
[/quote)
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Yeah guys! Why do we have TWO AK47 icons, and yet we have no, M4 or M16 icon? ???
Not cool guys, not cool at all. Time 505th find us at least one! LOL
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[url=http://yoursmiles.org/p-m
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[img]http://www.smileydesign.n
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Now where is our M4 or M16 emoticon? [url=http://www.freesmileys.or
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*facepalm*
I'm still waiting for that one ^
*Walks away*
[url=http://yoursmiles.org/p-m
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Yeah guys! Why do we have TWO AK47 icons, and yet we have no, M4 or M16 icon? ???
Not cool guys, not cool at all.
I'm sorry guys. I seriously am. I just can't help it. I'm LMAO right now with tears in my eyes and I can't seem to stop. Somebody help me! It's starting to hurt! :)) :'( :)) :'(
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We figured that we didn't need and M4/AR emoticon because a guy who owns a M4/AR wants for nothing else... but more ammo!
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I was going to find out today if the Tul steel cased stuff worked well with my M4 because I was about to buy a crap load of it from wal-mart.
Well anyway, I chose to do my video response to That Guy today instead, but I'm about to find out soon how the steel case works in my M4.
It should be fine, because mine is mil-spec and is chromed lined so it should be all good to go.
I shot alot of steel cased stuff when I first got my AR. My rifle ate it just fine but you just gotta make sure you clean your chamber well. The only problems I had happened when I switched from steel to brass in the same session/range trip. the brass kept getting stuck in the chamber, i guess from the laquer shit that's on the steel cased stuff melted off and caked up the chamber. i don't really know for sure, but I stopped shooting steel cased and I've never had the problem again. (http://www.smileyvault.co
Also, why don't we have an M4 or M16 icon, but we have a AK-47? WTF?!?!?! LOL I smell conspiracy. haha
[/quote)
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We figured that we didn't need and M4/AR emoticon because a guy who owns a M4/AR wants for nothing else... but more ammo!
I like AR guys. They're faithful and loyal to their platform almost to a T. I know it's got to be killing them to have you use an AK icon.
Uh, oh, this is gonna start me laughing all over again. I better stop before I give myself a hernia or something.
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SORRY ALL, i'M ONE OF THOSE ak AND ar GUYS AND iT IS STILL CRACKING ME UP?
RON
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SORRY ALL, i'M ONE OF THOSE ak AND ar GUYS AND iT IS STILL CRACKING ME UP?
RON
Same here. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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We figured that we didn't need and M4/AR emoticon because a guy who owns a M4/AR wants for nothing else... but more ammo!
I like AR guys. They're faithful and loyal to their platform almost to a T. I know it's got to be killing them to have you use an AK icon.
Uh, oh, this is gonna start me laughing all over again. I better stop before I give myself a hernia or something.
and I love ak guys, they make me laugh with how much shit they talk so they can feel better about their inferior choice in rifles
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Guys, I'll settle this debate right here, right now.
It doesn't matter what rifle you choose, as long as you practice with it, a lot, and have a lot of ammo to feed it. And mags to put that ammo in might be a good idea.
They both seem like great platforms, and I'd be happy with either one.
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Guys, I'll settle this debate right here, right now.
It doesn't matter what rifle you choose, as long as you practice with it, a lot, and have a lot of ammo to feed it. And mags to put that ammo in might be a good idea.
They both seem like great platforms, and I'd be happy with either one.
Exactly! [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co [url=http://www.freesmileys.or
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I shot alot of steel cased stuff when I first got my AR. My rifle ate it just fine but you just gotta make sure you clean your chamber well. The only problems I had happened when I switched from steel to brass in the same session/range trip. the brass kept getting stuck in the chamber, i guess from the laquer shit that's on the steel cased stuff melted off and caked up the chamber. i don't really know for sure, but I stopped shooting steel cased and I've never had the problem again.
I have to correct this common misconception. Lacquer coating does not 'melt'. Hit up some spent casings with a blowtorch and you'll quickly see this. 'Poly' coated cases only came to the market because the US venue was so stuck in this line of thinking. Here's what really happens:
Steel cases don't have the elasticity of brass cases. This means when the round is discharged it doesn't fully form to the chamber; a small gap exists between the outside of the steel case and the chamber walls. In this gap, crap builds up. Now, along the same time period Wolf and other steel cases became more popular, the market with rife with South African battlepacks of 5.56. SA .223/5.56 is notorious for being made of relatively brittle brass. This means that when the SA brass expanded into the layer of gunk, there was often an insufficient amount of resistance on the extractor to pull out the round. Hence, the whole, 'no brass after steel'.
I myself run several rounds of brass cased ammo, to pull out some of the gunk, for every several hundred rounds of steel-cased. The Box O' Truth did an article about this years ago here:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm
The rule of thumb should really be, 'Don't run [South African] brass after steel'.
If one doesn't have a properly-speced 5.56 chamber, the risk is much higher of having a stuck case. It is notable that when Hornady released their training ammunition line (Hornady bullet and powder in a primed Russian steel case) they went with lacquer coated cases (which are far far better in regards to corrosion resistance than the 'poly' coated ones). In short: Poly cases exist because Americans are ignorant.
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In short: Poly cases exist because Americans are ignorant.
I resemble that statement. I'd truly like to argue against any insinuation that Americans are ignorant. Unfortunately, as a whole, we prove it to be the truth over and over again. Obama is just the latest shining example.
I say we boycott those poly cases first. Then move on to our other mistakes.
Great post Dave.
And 505, thanks for the cool gun sigs.
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I shot alot of steel cased stuff when I first got my AR. My rifle ate it just fine but you just gotta make sure you clean your chamber well. The only problems I had happened when I switched from steel to brass in the same session/range trip. the brass kept getting stuck in the chamber, i guess from the laquer shit that's on the steel cased stuff melted off and caked up the chamber. i don't really know for sure, but I stopped shooting steel cased and I've never had the problem again.
I have to correct this common misconception. Lacquer coating does not 'melt'. Hit up some spent casings with a blowtorch and you'll quickly see this. 'Poly' coated cases only came to the market because the US venue was so stuck in this line of thinking. Here's what really happens:
Steel cases don't have the elasticity of brass cases. This means when the round is discharged it doesn't fully form to the chamber; a small gap exists between the outside of the steel case and the chamber walls. In this gap, crap builds up. Now, along the same time period Wolf and other steel cases became more popular, the market with rife with South African battlepacks of 5.56. SA .223/5.56 is notorious for being made of relatively brittle brass. This means that when the SA brass expanded into the layer of gunk, there was often an insufficient amount of resistance on the extractor to pull out the round. Hence, the whole, 'no brass after steel'.
I myself run several rounds of brass cased ammo, to pull out some of the gunk, for every several hundred rounds of steel-cased. The Box O' Truth did an article about this years ago here:
[url]http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm[/url]
The rule of thumb should really be, 'Don't run [South African] brass after steel'.
If one doesn't have a properly-speced 5.56 chamber, the risk is much higher of having a stuck case. It is notable that when Hornady released their training ammunition line (Hornady bullet and powder in a primed Russian steel case) they went with lacquer coated cases (which are far far better in regards to corrosion resistance than the 'poly' coated ones). In short: Poly cases exist because Americans are ignorant.
Dave_M, you just blew my mind. :o
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[URL=http://www.smileyvault.coOh, I almost forgot to address the epitome and pinnacle of AR development: the piston. Sounds like the AR is NOW actually an AK! Funny, my WASR-10 still doesn't need a forward assist. OUCH!!! Sounds like I just nailed somebody's mom, sister, favorite platform, or all of them at once!!! [url=http://yoursmiles.org/p-m
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Oh, I almost forgot to address the epitome and pinnacle of AR development: the piston. Sounds like the AR is NOW actually an AK! Funny, my WASR-10 still doesn't need a forward assist. OUCH!!! Sounds like I just nailed somebody's mom, sister, favorite platform, or all of them at once!!! (http://yoursmiles.org/p-m [/quote)
Piston AR's aren't the pinnacle of AR design; they are a fool's errand and wasted money for most. Except in exceedingly rare instances, they are totally unneeded and do not increase reliability in the system. Furthermore, they are outclassed by newer technologies. I would place the current vertex of design on either the Knights Armament SR-15E3 or the LMT MRP (DI version).
Also, the AK has a long-stroke gas system. This means that the gas piston is directly attached to the BCG. Every AR piston design I've seen has involved a short-stroke gas system (independent op-rod which hits the BCG). Additionally, the AK isn't the first rifle developed to have a gas piston--not every gun with a gas piston is a derivative of an AK-series rifle. Obvious more advanced versions of the AK would be the Galil and Valmet.
Your WASR-10 does indeed have a forward assist--it's called the charging handle.
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Also, the AK has a long-stroke gas system. This means that the gas piston is directly attached to the BCG. Every AR piston design I've seen has involved a short-stroke gas system (independent op-rod which hits the BCG).
Primary Weapon System (PWS) formerly known as AK Concepts. Long-stroke.
Honestly one of the best approaches I've seen yet, at least that I can talk about ;D
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Also, the AK has a long-stroke gas system. This means that the gas piston is directly attached to the BCG. Every AR piston design I've seen has involved a short-stroke gas system (independent op-rod which hits the BCG).
Primary Weapon System (PWS) formerly known as AK Concepts. Long-stroke.
Honestly one of the best approaches I've seen yet, at least that I can talk about ;D
Years ago, when I actually gave some consideration to this concept, I attached an SKS op-rod to an AR carrier. It worked. It was also stupid. One of these days I'll post pics of my DI AK build :))
Either way, I think we can both agree these are all far cry's from being both the, 'pinnacle' nor AK-like.
Here's a write-up a did a while back regarding piston systems:
http://www.milcopptactical.com/piston.htm
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ADCOR Bear is a long stroke setup. So, I'll correct myself.