Author Topic: AR- 15 vs. AK-47 (Read 7956 times)

505th.NM.Militia · « **on:** August 30, 2011, 07:49:57 PM »

Ok, slow down there quickdraw! I know this topic was beaten to DEATH, resurrected, shot to bits, came back as a zombie, and finally put down by pickaxe, but not before it killed our former board! That being said I was watching video's on youtube and could not find one awesome AR- 15 versus AK- 47 video! So guess what thatguy and I were thinking...that's right, trotting the old corpse out one more time! Hopefully, with your help, it will be an awesome video! (Remember, it will be done in the no bullshit thatguy style!)

Here's what I need from you...

I sincerely want your well thought out, stand by your statement, comparative analysis of these weapons. Consider it almost as a WIKI. This is going to include facts, but not opinion. Also, no post hoc fallacy, ie "After this, THEREFORE, because of this." An example would be, "The AK is not effective in certain situations, because it is being used by countries other than America." I know this may be a bad example, but essential what I am saying is lets keep this intelligent, polite, and helpful. Not only will this help us to make more awesome content for our board, but there are new guys looking for this information EVERYDAY. Lets give them something to sink their teeth into.

This board will be closely monitored to ensure quality of information.

Thanks guys and gals!

NOLA556 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 30, 2011, 08:07:20 PM »

well this may not be Wiki-worthy, but these are my thoughts.

http://www.youtube.com/user/NOLA556?feature=mhee#p/u/13/5p_SNkZhEcM

(VR to Reaver... lol

)

Reaver · « **Reply #2 on:** August 30, 2011, 08:36:32 PM »

I actually purged quite a bit of my video's. And that was one of them.

The AK47 has looser tolerances, meaning less must be in order and it will still work correctly.
The AK47 also pushes a much heavy bullet. IMO a .30 Caliber Heavy hitter is quite a bit better for the role it was designed for. " Assault "

NOLA556 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 30, 2011, 08:38:36 PM »

Quote from: Reaver on August 30, 2011, 08:36:32 PM

I actually purged quite a bit of my video's. And that was one of them.

that's cool Reaver. I just posted that because it's my honest feelings about that debate. the "VR" aspect of it is irrelevant as far as this thread goes.

Reaver · « **Reply #4 on:** August 30, 2011, 08:40:08 PM »

Oh, yeah Roger that Solid copy.

505th.NM.Militia · « **Reply #5 on:** August 30, 2011, 09:07:19 PM »

I enjoy the sheer ugliness that is the AK-47. No one ever said it would win a beauty contest, but I also mean as far as the sheer violence of action: Bigger bullets, more reliable hi-capacity magazine options, like REAVER said, lower tolerances for operation. The AR is amazing at distance, for the sheer lightness of it, and its proven EFFECTIVE tactical uses.

What are some good drills we could perform where you wouldn't think either would have an edge, so that the sheer essence of the firearm can shine, IE: Shouldered firing at 25 - 50 yards. I honestly can't guess which will do better.

/Toss me a mag REAVER!

NOLA556 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 30, 2011, 09:15:32 PM »

Quote from: 505th.NM.Militia on August 30, 2011, 09:07:19 PM

I enjoy the sheer ugliness that is the AK-47. No one ever said it would win a beauty contest, but I also mean as far as the sheer violence of action: Bigger bullets, more reliable hi-capacity magazine options, like REAVER said, lower tolerances for operation. The AR is amazing at distance, for the sheer lightness of it, and its proven EFFECTIVE tactical uses.

What are some good drills we could perform where you wouldn't think either would have an edge, so that the sheer essence of the firearm can shine, IE: Shouldered firing at 25 - 50 yards. I honestly can't guess which will do better.

/Toss me a mag REAVER!

here's a suggestion: GET DIRTY! I wanna see you and TG both rolling around in the mud while firing... one of you with an AK, and one of you with an AR, just to debunk the myth about AR's.... and if the AR jams... well shit... I'll STFU then.... lol

Kentactic · « **Reply #7 on:** August 30, 2011, 09:18:26 PM »

the AR has more firepower simply because less recoil gets more rounds on target faster. so the AR will have an edge because of that on anything needing more then a single shot. perhaps the edge is very little in some situations but never the less its an edge. mag changes for the common person will be smoother with an AR. for one theres no rocking of the mags for two the bolt locks to the rear on the last round.

these are a few things that just came to mind.

NOLA556 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 30, 2011, 09:20:44 PM »

Quote from: Kentactic on August 30, 2011, 09:18:26 PM

the AR has more firepower simply because less recoil gets more rounds on target faster. so the AR will have an edge because of that on anything needing more then a single shot. perhaps the edge is very little in some situations but never the less its an edge. mag changes for the common person will be smoother with an AR. for one theres no rocking of the mags for two the bolt locks to the rear on the last round.

these are a few things that just came to mind.

*thumbs up* ..... hint...

CrystalHunter1989 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 30, 2011, 09:24:36 PM »

Within the context of prepping in the United States:

There is nothing wrong with either rifle. They both require cleaning and will only hit the target if you shoot them properly.

The AK is great. Ridiculously reliable action. Powerful cartridge. Menacing appearance. Relatively inexpensive.

That being said...

I would highly recommend an AR-15 rifle in 5.56x45 as one's primary combat arm for a few simple reasons:

1) It's used by nearly every police department, military unit and average person in this nation
2) It can be quickly converted to a multitude of other calibers
3) Almost every gun store has a large supply of replacement parts and complete rifles
4) Ammo commonality
5) Evil black rifles scare liberals
6) Can be easily outfitted for any role and mission
7) Vital parts can be swapped between rifles no matter what company made them (very few exceptions)

I originally had an AK, but decided that in the long run, I didn't want to depend on foreign imports of ammunition (which will be cut in the event of martial law). Basic 5.56 is only $3 more per 20. Not too bad.

For me personally, it came down to a question of supply and logistics. I still love the AK and might get another one in the future.

Veritas · « **Reply #10 on:** August 30, 2011, 09:32:50 PM »

#5 is the only reason that you need.

1000meterstare · « **Reply #11 on:** August 30, 2011, 09:58:55 PM »

I was at the range 2 days ago and the dude in the same lane as me had a jam. He had a genuine COLT ar-15 20-inch. My WASR-10 kept chugging along next to him while he was trying to clear it. His bad-ass ACOG optics did him zero good at that point. The things you see at the hundred yard lane...

Reaver · « **Reply #12 on:** August 30, 2011, 10:09:10 PM »

1) It's used by nearly every police department, military unit and average person in this nation A police & military setting is a lot different than a WROL setting. The police can go to the station and clean it, the military unit can go back to the barracks and clean it.

2) It can be quickly converted to a multitude of other calibers, It can be converted, Just not that quickly. The only one that is quick is the .22 LR conversion. Other than that a barrel change on an AR designed weapon is not quick.

3) Almost every gun store has a large supply of replacement parts and complete rifles Again, for a WROL situation. You are not going to stroll up into the store & buy pieces parts, not to mention. An AK doesn't need the extra parts.

4) Ammo commonality How many people carry 7.62x39? As many as 5.56x45? Id say its a close race.

5) Evil black rifles scare liberalsCompletely Irrelevant

6) Can be easily outfitted for any role and missionAs can an AK with rails

7) Vital parts can be swapped between rifles no matter what company made them (very few exceptions) Are you saying the Bolt carrier and Bolt from a Draco won't work in a Maadi?

Just some points, All in good debate.

sledge · « **Reply #13 on:** August 30, 2011, 10:25:31 PM »

Quote from: Kentactic on August 30, 2011, 09:18:26 PM

the AR has more firepower simply because less recoil gets more rounds on target faster. so the AR will have an edge because of that on anything needing more then a single shot. perhaps the edge is very little in some situations but never the less its an edge. mag changes for the common person will be smoother with an AR. for one theres no rocking of the mags for two the bolt locks to the rear on the last round.

these are a few things that just came to mind.

I'll give you the mag changes are easier on the AR. As to AK recoil, you need to try one of these and see if it doesn't change your mind.

http://www.parts4ak47.com/ak-47_accessories/product/AK-47_J-Tac_Recoil_Compensator.html

Short video of J-Tac equipped AK folder in full auto vrs. Ak without the J-Tac.
http://www.gunaccessories.com/AK47-MAK90/J-Tac47.wmv

CrookedSights · « **Reply #14 on:** August 30, 2011, 10:41:03 PM »

Quote from: Reaver on August 30, 2011, 10:09:10 PM

2) It can be quickly converted to a multitude of other calibers, It can be converted, Just not that quickly. The only one that is quick is the .22 LR conversion. Other than that a barrel change on an AR designed weapon is not quick.

I think he meant swapping out uppers, other than that I completely agree with you.

Reaver · « **Reply #15 on:** August 30, 2011, 10:48:57 PM »

I think my brain just imploded. Total brain fart on that subject.

Kentactic · « **Reply #16 on:** August 30, 2011, 10:50:55 PM »

Quote from: sledge on August 30, 2011, 10:25:31 PM

Quote from: Kentactic on August 30, 2011, 09:18:26 PM
the AR has more firepower simply because less recoil gets more rounds on target faster. so the AR will have an edge because of that on anything needing more then a single shot. perhaps the edge is very little in some situations but never the less its an edge. mag changes for the common person will be smoother with an AR. for one theres no rocking of the mags for two the bolt locks to the rear on the last round.

these are a few things that just came to mind.

I'll give you the mag changes are easier on the AR. As to AK recoil, you need to try one of these and see if it doesn't change your mind.

http://www.parts4ak47.com/ak-47_accessories/product/AK-47_J-Tac_Recoil_Compensator.html

Short video of J-Tac equipped AK folder in full auto vrs. Ak without the J-Tac.
http://www.gunaccessories.com/AK47-MAK90/J-Tac47.wmv

yeah that looks like it reduces recoil somewhat but i wouldnt say it matches the AR...

heres a better video showing the recoil with this brake.. i think its the same one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pSRD-sdPsk

unless you weigh 100lbs soaking wet an AR wont recoil anywhere near as much as this AK does with the brake in question attached.

heres a video i just randomly grabbed to compare with another guy shooting an AR standing position...but WTF is really going on in this video?!?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09EElCe7ccg&feature=related

troopers out getting in some good target practice while on duty?.....

sledge · « **Reply #17 on:** August 30, 2011, 11:01:10 PM »

Yep, I saw that video about a couple of years ago. With the J-Tak the Ak will stay on target pretty much the same as an AR. They guy in this video must be pretty small. Even my wife doesn't move around that much when shooting her WASR-10 with J-Tac. For an AK, the J-Tac with a red dot makes for very fast repeat shots.

Kentactic · « **Reply #18 on:** August 30, 2011, 11:21:36 PM »

Quote from: sledge on August 30, 2011, 11:01:10 PM

Yep, I saw that video about a couple of years ago. With the J-Tak the Ak will stay on target pretty much the same as an AR. They guy in this video must be pretty small. Even my wife doesn't move around that much when shooting her WASR-10 with J-Tac. For an AK, the J-Tac with a red dot makes for very fast repeat shots.

ive watched a few vids of this jtak now and can say with decent confidence it dosent match an AR in recoil...from the looks of it its about like what an AR does to petite woman when fired by an average size male... sorry if my opinion dosent jive with the AK guys agenda but im sticking with it.

but then again i havent actually shot one and am basing my opinion on watching others shoot it...but i think in this case thats enough to form a somewhat educated opinion.

thatGuy · « **Reply #19 on:** August 30, 2011, 11:23:35 PM »

Quote from: 1000meterstare on August 30, 2011, 09:58:55 PM

I was at the range 2 days ago and the dude in the same lane as me had a jam. He had a genuine COLT ar-15 20-inch. My WASR-10 kept chugging along next to him while he was trying to clear it. His bad-ass ACOG optics did him zero good at that point. The things you see at the hundred yard lane...

And my FrankenGun kept running while 505th's ak went down due to lack of lube.

We should keep this thread factual not anecdotal.

Anecdotal Evidence: refers to evidence from anecdotes. Because of the small sample, there is a larger chance that it may be true but unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise unrepresentative of typical cases.

sledge · « **Reply #20 on:** August 31, 2011, 09:12:00 AM »

Ken I don't have an agenda for the AK. I'll pick up an AR as quick as I will an AK if I don't have to shoot through something. You had said that the AR will put more lead down field quicker because of less recoil which implied that it had quicker target acquisition. With a properly set up AK that isn't actually the case under 200 yards. I'm not trying to be argumentative or attacking you. I just know from shooting both.

The two advantages I give the AR are target distance and weight. Their reliability is good if you keep them lubed. I've read claims where some ranges don't clean them hardly ever and they still shoot. I wouldn't bet my life on that. Still, if I need a rifle quick and there is an AR lying in a mud puddle I'm going to grab it and start pulling the trigger while issuing a short prayer that I hear a bang instead of a click.

--------------------------------
505's AK went down due to lack of lube? I've never heard of that happening before. Normally the only place you would lube them is on the inside rails with a tiny bit of white grease. That's just to prevent wear (as in get 80,000 rounds out of it instead of 50,000.) and wouldn't have anything to do with whether the gun operates. Lube for operation is more of an AR issue because of the closer tolerances.

thatGuy · « **Reply #21 on:** August 31, 2011, 10:15:06 AM »

Thats what I would have thought too Sledge, but there was enough friction to keep it from completing a full cycle of the bolt. It would chamber a new round but wouldn't cock the hammer. I don't know exactly what was causing it but I know it went away when we put some oil in the gun.

The whole point is that 1000Meter saw something and I saw the opposite. Neither one makes a difference because 1 instance isn't enough to make it fact. Anything and everything can happen 1 time. Ask Boone he was a fisherman, I would hazard to say that he has seen all kinds of crazy shit happen once. Crazier things than an AK jambing or an AR that wouldn't.

Kobalt · « **Reply #22 on:** August 31, 2011, 11:32:45 AM »

I chose the ak Bucause. I like it and it gets the job done. [img]http://www.smileydesign.n

UnBroken · « **Reply #23 on:** August 31, 2011, 12:32:27 PM »

If you follow the firearms industry at all, you will know that the ar15 platform has seen many changes to help with reliability. gas piston systems, Angled cutting for the feed ramps and new types of coatings to keep it from jams and issues

i believe the Ak47 is the best Semi auto rifle made. it is simple, it is idiot proof, its heavy and made of steel( depending on what type you get) but i feel that most of the common Semi Auto varents out in the U.S. have been cut and chopped down that it ruins it or at least lessens the rifle in some way. yes you have a heavy hitting round that is good out to 200 yards in the right hands. i have seen countless video's where the ak kicks the ar's ass AND vis versa.

I think at this point if you are looking at both rifles and not the ammo they carry, there isnt much difference as far as reliability. if you want a heavy round and want to let your bad guy get that close. get the ak47

if you want to put some distance or more rounds on target: get the ar15

if you want both get anything in a 308

505th.NM.Militia · « **Reply #24 on:** August 31, 2011, 01:32:42 PM »

There are a lot of great posts here fellas! I guess it just wouldn't be AK vs AR without getting down and DIRTY!

As far as my AK not cycling, I have to insist THATGUY that we had installed the long dog 5" compliance break and there is still a chance it was fucking with the gas exchange re robbing the cycle of needed pressure. I might sound like a total idiot but....

Anecdote!

News:

Author Topic: AR- 15 vs. AK-47 (Read 7956 times)

505th.NM.Militia

505th.NM.Militia

CrystalHunter1989

1000meterstare

CrookedSights

UnBroken

505th.NM.Militia