Author Topic: .224 Valkyrie (Read 1298 times)

JohnyMac · « **on:** August 06, 2018, 01:20:35 PM »

To move away from politics for a post or two I am posting this Valkyrie 224 post for discussion purposes.

I have been thinking of trying my hand at long range shooting but being the true Scotsman that I am I was looking for cheaper alternatives then some tricked out 7.62x51, .338 Lapua, or .50 BMG rifles.

After working with my new Class III FFL friend expanding and upgrading his range (I will write about this at a later date) we got into the discussion of long range shooting on the cheap. His suggestion was buying a .224 Valkyrie upper for my AR-15/5.56 lower.

He claimed that the .224 Valkyrie has great ballistics out to 1,300 meters - Much better than the 7.62 which basically reaches its 'wall' at ~800 meters.

So this is what I found out about this relatively new cartridge.

Quote

"...Federal Premium’s 224 Valkyrie takes the long-range precision and ballistic performance of the MSR 15 platform to unheard of heights. The results recorded by Federal Premium engineers during the cartridge’s extensive development and testing process speak for themselves. The 224 Valkyrie provides extremely flat trajectories, supersonic velocities at as far as 1,300 yards downrange, and match-grade accuracy.

It offers dramatically improved trajectories over all other MSR 15 cartridges, including the 22 Nosler, 223 Rem. and 6.5 Grendel—with roughly half the recoil of larger cartridges offering comparable ballistics, such as the 6.5 Creedmoor.

Built To Go the Distance
Loaded with a selection of high-performance projectiles, the 224 Valkyrie is the new first choice of long-range target shooters and hunters looking to extend the reach of their favorite MSR 15. Plus, even though the new 224 Valkyrie was designed for gas-driven MSR 15 actions, it’s also extremely effective from bolt guns. All of this is great news for shooters who’ve longed for practical, economical and exceptionally reliable 1,000-plus-yard performance...

https://gunmagwarehouse.com/blog/224Valkyrie/

Thoughts folks?

Jackalope · « **Reply #1 on:** August 06, 2018, 04:18:56 PM »

I guess it depends upon why you're planning on shooting long range. Are you just planning on putting holes in paper? Or long distance hunting? Or for "other" purposes? The .224 Valkyrie has great ballistics, but if you're using it for hog hunting or similar game, then an ordinary 5.56 would suffice, at distances of less than 1000m. If your intention is to put serious lead into something over 1000m, then I think you would be better off with something like a .338 or even the .50BMG. Personally, I try to stick with common calibers, because I'm concerned with long term ammunition availability. My Dad has an old hunting rifle, I forget what caliber it is, but he has a hell of a time finding ammo for it. And during the past decade there's been a large amount of new calibers that have been introduced, and I wonder how many of them will endure.

If you just want to experiment, then I'd say go for it. If you want to try a .50. BMG, let me know.

Nemo · « **Reply #2 on:** August 06, 2018, 08:03:45 PM »

Stay with a 308 or '06. Stay with common, widespread, easy to find calibers. And if you need to go past 800 yards (near half mile) you need to go with the 50 Bad Mofo Gun. That will let you go a mile and half and take out about anything short of a tank in between.

Ammo availability can be a headache. Try finding ammo for a Savage 99 (I had to sell to pay med bills) in 303 Savage caliber and paying less than $1.75 to $2 a round. That can be that 224 in a few years.

Nemo

gadget99 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 07, 2018, 03:21:07 AM »

I have put a massive amount of lead down range at the distances you are looking at.

I also did a pretty good amount of R&D work while running the ammo production facility at the Army Marksmanship Unit.

There are a few things to take into consideration..

1. type of usage you are looking at. Target shooting or Hunting.
2. Total cost of ownership. The firearm and ammo.
3. Is availability of ammo a consideration?

In my humble opinion sticking with a tried, true and ready available calibre is a good way to go.

Way back when I bought a relatively cheap bull barrel Ruger .308 rifle. I pulled the barrelled action out of the stock. Took a dremmel to the front channel of the stock to make sure the barrel was free floating. Then used bedding compound to make sure the action was bedded into the stock well. Then put a mid range priced Leupold 3x9 scope on it.

I took it out to the range while we were doing shooting team practice to see what it could do. It performed pretty well really. The whole setup did not break the bank and did what I wanted. Which was print pretty good groups out to 1000.

Don't break the bank if you are not looking at competitive long distance shooting. Also remember that while there are some really good semi-auto setups with great accuracy. They are very expensive and more moving parts means more to wear down and more to go wrong. For something that will do the job and keep doing it well. You cannot go wrong with a bolt action.

Now the choices of caliber is controversial. From my experience quality ammo with a well built rifle will provide quality results. I produced 5.56 ammo for the Army Shooting team that won at the 1000yds at the National Championships much of the time. With a bullet that light you really have to be able to read the wind.

I also produced 300 win mag ammo that held sub minute of angle at 1000yds all day long.

So if I was to council on the best setup for a prepper that wants to be able to reach out to 800 - 1000 yds effectively.

I would suggest a bull barrel bolt action .308 rifle for an all around good solution. Get a gunsmith to bed in the action and make sure the barrel is free floating. Put a good quality scope on it and you are ready for the range. The availability of the ammo is a big consideration here.

Remember that accuracy at long range relies on learned skill more than quality of equipment. I shot and won at the All Army Championships four years running using issued M16A2's from my unit with standard Army Ammo with Iron Sights. This was out to 600yds.

Most of the time any rifle out there will out perform the ability of the shooter.

Just my two cents worth.

JohnyMac · « **Reply #4 on:** August 07, 2018, 12:18:25 PM »

Good discussion and comments gents.

@ Nemo - I use to have a 1917 Savage model 99 in 303 Savage. I use to take 30-30 brass resize them in a .303 Savage resizer press, trim them a bit (I think 1/16") and then load them with .308 150 grain SP bullets. I think I used 30 gr of IMR 3031 powder. If my memory holds accurate this load did well in that old Model 99. I probably could have bumped up the powder a hair or two but I was able to put 5 rounds in a 50 cent piece sized hole at 50 yards with the iron sights the rifle came with.

CJS06 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 07, 2018, 04:27:30 PM »

Johny

Funny I was just having a conversation with a fellow shooter about the .224 Valkyrie. He has one due in at the end of this week. It looks like a very interesting round with good ballistics out to 1300m as you mentioned. Seems to be a great round for punching paper or steel, but I dont know about it as a hunting round for game of any real size. It is kind of the AR15 version of the 6.5 Creedmoor. I think if i lived somewhere with the distances to stretch it legs to on the regular I just might go that route to try it out at least.

There have been lots of good suggestions, but it really comes down to what you want to use it for. If it is just about getting the hits at 1000+ then give it a run. There are a few barrel manufacturers chambering in .224 that are decent quality and wont break the bank. If you want to play in some longer distances but maybe only occasionally will get out to a full 1000m consider sticking with 5.56 as well. I have shot my 18" gun fairly regularly out to 800m+ and have stretched in very successfully to 1200m+. It runs best on Black Hills 77gr OTM or 77gr TMK. I have also gotten great results out of Magtech 77gr OTM and Nosler 75gr. Granted I use it for getting hits on IPSC size steel not for working groups. Buck Doyle runs a great Scoped Carbine program out in Teasdale Utah. He bases the entire class around the 5.56 and the Tremor 3 reticle with ranges from 300m-1200m.

I have been able to shoot the 6.5 Creedmoor a good amount lately (It is nice to have friends that let you play with their cool toys) and really like it out of the Short Action/ AR10 platform. The ability to get similar performance out of the AR15 platform definitely make me want to consider the .224 Valkyrie......now all I need to do is move so I can get the shooting area to be able to actually use it.

For hunting the best round may really depend on your game and your AO. Wyoming and Montana will have generally greater ranges and bigger game than say the forests of Maine.

The biggest thing is exactly what Gadget posted. The shooter is the key to success, most of the time the rifle will out perform the shooter.

Chris

JohnyMac · « **Reply #6 on:** August 07, 2018, 04:58:53 PM »

What are you shooting there in those pic's Chris?

Well to be quite honest gentlemen I wanted to just dabble in some long range shooting as there is nowhere around here that I could shoot beyond 300 meters. The closest 1,000 meter range is at Max's in Romney WV. Their class (with exceptions) does not allow instruction in 5.56.

Now if I was to buy a piece of artillery I would probably pick a .50 BMG. I recently saw a BMG round go through the front blade of a bull dozer at 200 meters - Very impressive.

What do I hope to accomplish??? paper, gongs and maybe a two legged critter when things heat up BUT the ranges here are for the most part under 200 yards.

Maybe I will look at the 6.5 Creedmoor?

?

Nemo · « **Reply #7 on:** August 07, 2018, 08:19:13 PM »

Come a little further south. We are putting in a new line at our range and I think its going out to 600 yards.

Nemo

https://sites.google.com/view/lynchburgiwla

CJS06 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 08, 2018, 09:26:50 AM »

Quote from: JohnyMac on August 07, 2018, 04:58:53 PM

What are you shooting there in those pic's Chris?

That is my 18" 5.56 with an NG2 can. I was shooting 77gr TMK.

Nemo..... 600yds

......only a dream in this area.

Chris

CJS06 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 10, 2018, 02:46:35 PM »

Johny

I took the leap.......kind of. I am being given a new Proof Research .224 Valkyrie barrel. Late this year I am going out to shoot with Buck Doyle to run through a new Hybrid Recce class that he is putting together. Proof has been asking him for input regarding the Valkyrie . There are 6 of us that will be taking part, with 5 running a mix of .224 barrels (18-22" with 1/7 or 1/6.5 twist) a 1 running an 18" 1/8 .223Wylde as a control. I have been told I will be receiving either an 18 or 20" in 1/6.5 twist. I am putting this into an existing Noveske upper with BCM 15"KMR rail using a JP 6.8SPC Bolt.
For glass I will run my Leupold Mk5 3.6-18x.

I will break it in here in RI but probably wont really get to shoot it until I get out to Teasdale, UT in late Nov to early Dec.

I'll try to make sure to post a review following the trip.

Chris

Nemo · « **Reply #10 on:** September 10, 2018, 04:19:17 PM »

Quote from: CJS06 on August 08, 2018, 09:26:50 AM

Nemo..... 600yds ......only a dream in this area.

Chris

My mistake. That got turned into a 250 degree pistol caliber combat course. That oughta be lotsa fun.

Nemo

CJS06 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 10, 2018, 06:27:41 PM »

Nemo

Sounds like a good time. I have been trying to work on my handgun more than my carbine lately. That is other than long distance which I have been continuing to try to push for better performance.

Chris

JohnyMac · « **Reply #12 on:** September 11, 2018, 08:15:13 PM »

Chris, late Nov/early Dec...Damn! Your going to miss deer season here at the cabin again

Nemo · « **Reply #13 on:** September 12, 2018, 09:38:21 AM »

Whats a PA non-resident big game license cost nowadays?

Nemo

Kbop · « **Reply #14 on:** September 12, 2018, 08:17:28 PM »

Nonresident Adult Hunting License ($101.90): Issued to nonresidents of Pennsylvania (from any state or nation) who are age 17 and older. This license includes one antlered deer tag, one fall turkey tag, one spring turkey tag and small game hunting privileges for one license year.

https://www.pgc.pa.gov/HuntTrap/LicensesandPermits/Pages/LicenseTypes.aspx#nahl

Nemo · « **Reply #15 on:** September 12, 2018, 08:33:32 PM »

Antlerless tag?

Nemo

CJS06 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 16, 2019, 01:21:06 PM »

Just got back from a fairly intensive weekend out in Northern New Mexico. We had a Alpine patrol/ Scoped Carbine class run by Follow Through Consulting. I shot my .224 Valkyrie for the class. Ended up with very pleasing results.

Rifle is a 20" Wilson Combat Barrel 1:6.5 twist, Leupold MK5 3.6-18x Tremor 3, Deadair Sandman K, and the round I was shooting is the Hornady 88gr ELD.

For most of the weekend courses of fire ranged from 381 to 910 meters. On Sunday we stretched it out a bit and worked mainly targets from 1050 out to 1670 meters. Temps were high 20s to low 40s for most of the class with winds averaging about 8 mph. Base altitude was 8600ft ASL. I was the little guy shooting with mostly 6.5CM and .260Rem shooters. Out to 1310 I was able to perform as well or better than the heavier rounds. For the targets set in the high 13s, 14s and out to 1670 my little round was challenged for sure. Holding elevation on was very consistent but wind became a real challenge. At 1670 I was only able to put 3 rounds of a 15 rd mag onto steel. Throughout the course of fire I was able to hold very close to the 6.5CMs (only 1.2mil higher at 1280m). At 1670 I was holding 27.8 mils as apposed to 25.6 for the 6.5CMs.

I really hope we see some more load development for this round. As of now the only round that I have gotten performing well is the 88ELD. I havent found anything from Federal that will perform consistently. This is Ironic as the caliber was created by Federal.

Chris

Nemo · « **Reply #17 on:** April 16, 2019, 08:36:15 PM »

Quote from: Nemo on September 10, 2018, 04:19:17 PM

Quote from: CJS06 on August 08, 2018, 09:26:50 AM
Nemo..... 600yds ......only a dream in this area.

Chris

My mistake. That got turned into a 250 degree pistol caliber combat course. That oughta be lotsa fun.

Nemo

Change again. Looks like we will be able to put together a 3 gun shooting course. Just waiting on the grass to grow and get all set so its not a mudpit.

Nemo

JohnyMac · « **Reply #18 on:** April 17, 2019, 10:04:50 AM »

Great stuff Chris. Thx for sharing.

patriotman · « **Reply #19 on:** April 17, 2019, 12:02:47 PM »

Very interesting stuff Chris. Not my cup of tea in terms of engagement range or caliber but I am very interested in those results because I never hear much about that round.

CJS06 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 09, 2019, 10:29:45 AM »

The more I shoot this round the more I am appreciating it. I just spent 3 days shooting in the Coastal Range out in Oregon. We were able to set up in the logging cuts and get a variety of different targets. We shot exclusively 12" steel plates that we set out on ridges, in washes, along embankments, etc. Targets ranged from 200 to 910m. We did set out steel at 1060m and 1280 but another group came in and made it so that we could not safely shoot at those.

On Friday afternoon we went out and set camp , then went out to begin to set the targets. Each evening we went out, pulled up what we had and moved to new spots and new challenges. The shooting was the easy part, setting and retrieving targets up and down the myriad of ridgelines of the coast range was a kick in the junk. It was a good thing that we had some decent Blanton's Single Barrel for "medicinal purposes" each evening at the fire. Our final set up had targets at 210, 385, 435, 520 620, 785 and 910 m.

I shot mainly Hornady 88ELD and tried out the Federal 90gr SMKs. I have been very disappointed in the performance of the other Federal ammo I have tried, but was ok with this loading. Mind you I will need to shoot it some more before I really make a decision. I still got better results with the Hornady ELD's. The guy I shot with was running his 6.5CM for the weekend. The 6.5CM is a great round and though very close , the 224 doesnt quite handle the longer distances and wind as well. It was however much dicer to carry the smaller framed 224.

So far I am very happy with the 224V. I am looking forward to seeing some more ammo development.

Chris

zanedclark · « **Reply #21 on:** July 09, 2019, 10:51:50 AM »

The rifle in my avatar is my Browning mdl 71 in .348 Winchester Ackley Improved taken at the ghost town of Masonic California. A handload proposition only.

We are old enough that if a .224 zipdee dooda makes you happy, then go for it.

z

JohnyMac · « **Reply #22 on:** July 09, 2019, 02:14:56 PM »

Thanks for the report Chris.

Its tough to do where you live (Not many 1,000-meter ranges in RI

) however, have you thought of rolling your own? You are also busier than a one-armed-paper-hanger.

CJS06 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 09, 2019, 03:35:56 PM »

Quote from: JohnyMac on July 09, 2019, 02:14:56 PM

Its tough to do where you live (Not many 1,000-meter ranges in RI ) however, have you thought of rolling your own? You are also busier than a one-armed-paper-hanger.

Johny Mac you got that right! About the longest here in the state is 200+yds. There are a few places within a few hours drive up north. Ridgeline has a great layout.

I have a plan to load my own, but as you mentioned time is at a premium right now. I need to piggyback my shooting trips on work trips. The Oregon trip was piggybacked on a trip out to the Gorge for RS Aero North Americans. As long as I can get decent results for reasonable pricing from the factory loads available I will probably continue that way for a while.

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Author Topic: .224 Valkyrie (Read 1298 times)

gadget99