Rant

[WhiteWolf]

You wrote, " It's 3 am. and I have a gun to pick up in the morning" Whatja get?

A Savage LE edition .308 w/ heavy fluted 22" barrel and picking up an hk mp5sd .22lr soon.

[hjmoosejaw]

Nice! [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co     Ahhhhh, Numbers 4 and 5

[WhiteWolf]

ww

Has your wife read your 1st paragraph of your rant? How does she feel about your words? I found your first paragraph to be very disrespectful to your wife. I do not think JC would have posted that, what do you think?
I will pray for you tonight.

Well, first off Hondo, JC was above the snares of the flesh. So that point is kind of mute. Second, I didn't say I was contemplating a damn thing or wanted it. I was eluding to the fact that the guy who was, IMHO, was a dumbass who cared only about his dick and the fleeting pleasures of daily life and that any of us, including myself, have it in them to behave that way. I'm not sure what you're expecting to gain from your comment, but yes in fact I've talked to my wife in greater detail about this and several of the subsequent post here more than I have any of you. Oh, and Hondo, I appreciate the prayer, but God already knows my needs before you approach him. The Lord's prayer would be better.  [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

[WhiteWolf]

Nice!
Yup lol. Well, more like numbers 8&9, but for the purposes of that thread yeah, 4&5.

[Kentactic]

Thx Ken. but more important...How as your dinner 

it went very good JM thanks for asking man.

[Kentactic]

I havent read any of the responses yet....

But anyways... its 7:30pm and i just finnished setting up my surprise dinner for my girlfriend. Im currently waiting for her to get home from work now... i went all out...why?...because i love her... and id NEVER risk our relationship for some dumbass temptations... I dont need some machine typed words out of the most mass produced book in the world to tell me i love her and dont ever want to hurt her. some guys need some one else to tell them whats right and wrong... others ARE LEADERS... and can do it all on their own. i dont see how having ones nose stuffed in a book looking for all the answers makes a person a leader. that makes a person almost lost in my opinion. open your eyes...the answers to the world are all around you.. use your own feelings to gauge right and wrong... dont stare at the rules in a book and follow them blindly. if you took a more rational approach to life and questioned EVERYTHING then i dont think you could justify your rant above.

thats all ive got..

-Kenny

Hope you had a good dinner Ken.  One thought I want to consider before bashing the book or reading it. If the book has been proven to contain words of wisdom that hold true, and thousands of prophecies that have come true (some over 3,500 years old) wouldn't it be worth reading? Because as we speak they are still occuring. And I'm not taking some dogmatic right wing Christian approach about Israel and Iran. There's stuff there, but a lot of people have it wrong. If anything, guys that hate hearing it should read it just to be able to combat them intellectually and squash their false dogma with truth.  I don't doubt for a minute that a lot of people here are "good," but who among us couldn't be better? Food for thought.

Yeah theres no doubt that we all have room for improvement myself included. Now as far as the prophecies you speak of...that is a huge book...with a lot of words written in funny ways... its so hard to understand the "true" (meaning if there is such a thing) that you need a lawer to break it down... with that said i doubt theres a "prophecy" in there where it says on this date at this time at this exact location this will happen. it just says once a lamb and a cow walked down a grass hill and then people say hey remember that one time omg its from the bible...

if the book was meant to show people the good word it would have been written in a simpler way... and its not just because its so old... the translation even makes it hard to understand. its just a giant book that you can say means anything you want... show me where it says on september 11th 2001 the world trade centers will be brought down by 2 jumbo jets.. if i see those words ill be a believer.

Im not a dumb guy in my opinion.. i think i can grasp things pretty well...and i have picked it up many of times to read and try to find the "light" or what ever.. but everytime i just set it down and say "wtf did i just read".. why make a book that is the key to peoples eternal happiness so damn impossible to understand?... you could bring in 10 different people and have 10 different opinions of what the exact same scripture means. everyone always claims they are the right one but the truth is none of them have any clue and just blame their blind opinion on faith. faith takes up the slack for all the cluelessness. without that word there is no argument for religion. everyone just has it stuck in there head that they just need "faith" and they will be rewarded.. if you just drop that single word all religions are toast. i think a more suitable phrase would be "keep your fingers crossed" ... then you can go around telling people when they say how do you know god exists "youve just gotta keep your fingers crossed"... i think its a more accurate phrase to describe reality.

[NOLA556]

with that said i doubt theres a "prophecy" in there where it says on this date at this time at this exact location this will happen. it just says once a lamb and a cow walked down a grass hill and then people say hey remember that one time omg its from the bible...

ROFL! nailed it.  [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

[WhiteWolf]

with that said i doubt theres a "prophecy" in there where it says on this date at this time at this exact location this will happen. it just says once a lamb and a cow walked down a grass hill and then people say hey remember that one time omg its from the bible...

ROFL! nailed it. 
Not quite. I've actually discovered exact dates in my own studies as have others for current and ancient prophecies. Thing is here guys, it may sound smooth or funny to knock it now, but if you spent the time studying it and taking it seriously you'd start to see a lot more things unravel before your eyes. Also, I'm not talking about typical feel good social religion where you attend church on Sundays in your best suit. People need to study this stuff on their own and stop looking for answers with their pastor or priest. That's caused more damage throughout the world than most care to acknowledge. Doesn't mean the religion was bad. It means the people who listened were to gullible or lazy to challenge their corrupt leaders. I mean Nola, you care about your gun rights, your family, etc. What happens if a guy like Romney gets elected and says his religion leads him to believe Americans shouldn't have the right to bear arms? Hell, Santorum or Paul (both religious men) for that matter. You don't go to court and just say "I don't agree." You have to have a defense. The Bible is a great defense against tyranny and opression. And Jesus, the Judges (which I think you'd like), and the prophets are like your witnesses.

Like I said though before, can't force anyone to do shit, but I wish you would because I know you'd find a lot more answers for just about everything. Also, no homo, but I care about you guys (except bwb, jk bwb). I'm not going to be around forever and it'd be nice to know when the internet goes or something else happens that you guys fully grasp what's going on and have built yourselves up a defense against it.   

[crudos]

Not quite. I've actually discovered exact dates in my own studies as have others for current and ancient prophecies. Thing is here guys, it may sound smooth or funny to knock it now, but if you spent the time studying it and taking it seriously you'd start to see a lot more things unravel before your eyes. Also, I'm not talking about typical feel good social religion where you attend church on Sundays in your best suit. People need to study this stuff on their own and stop looking for answers with their pastor or priest. That's caused more damage throughout the world than most care to acknowledge. Doesn't mean the religion was bad. It means the people who listened were to gullible or lazy to challenge their corrupt leaders. I mean Nola, you care about your gun rights, your family, etc. What happens if a guy like Romney gets elected and says his religion leads him to believe Americans shouldn't have the right to bear arms? Hell, Santorum or Paul (both religious men) for that matter. You don't go to court and just say "I don't agree." You have to have a defense. The Bible is a great defense against tyranny and opression. And Jesus, the Judges (which I think you'd like), and the prophets are like your witnesses.

Like I said though before, can't force anyone to do shit, but I wish you would because I know you'd find a lot more answers for just about everything. Also, no homo, but I care about you guys (except bwb, jk bwb). I'm not going to be around forever and it'd be nice to know when the internet goes or something else happens that you guys fully grasp what's going on and have built yourselves up a defense against it.   

Just like the bible can be a great weapon for tyrants to oppress the unwashed mashes. Want examples, just ask any culture preyed/prayed upon by Christian missionaries the last 2000 years because they appeared to be savages or uncivilized or godless heathens, or some such nonsense. Being born Catholic, and coming to view my path in this life as a pagan, I see the bible as more about controlling it's flock, than setting it free. Jesus taught alot about compassion and love, yet there is so little of that in today's world.

[WhiteWolf]

Not quite. I've actually discovered exact dates in my own studies as have others for current and ancient prophecies. Thing is here guys, it may sound smooth or funny to knock it now, but if you spent the time studying it and taking it seriously you'd start to see a lot more things unravel before your eyes. Also, I'm not talking about typical feel good social religion where you attend church on Sundays in your best suit. People need to study this stuff on their own and stop looking for answers with their pastor or priest. That's caused more damage throughout the world than most care to acknowledge. Doesn't mean the religion was bad. It means the people who listened were to gullible or lazy to challenge their corrupt leaders. I mean Nola, you care about your gun rights, your family, etc. What happens if a guy like Romney gets elected and says his religion leads him to believe Americans shouldn't have the right to bear arms? Hell, Santorum or Paul (both religious men) for that matter. You don't go to court and just say "I don't agree." You have to have a defense. The Bible is a great defense against tyranny and opression. And Jesus, the Judges (which I think you'd like), and the prophets are like your witnesses.

Like I said though before, can't force anyone to do shit, but I wish you would because I know you'd find a lot more answers for just about everything. Also, no homo, but I care about you guys (except bwb, jk bwb). I'm not going to be around forever and it'd be nice to know when the internet goes or something else happens that you guys fully grasp what's going on and have built yourselves up a defense against it.   

Just like the bible can be a great weapon for tyrants to oppress the unwashed mashes. Want examples, just ask any culture preyed/prayed upon by Christian missionaries the last 2000 years because they appeared to be savages or uncivilized or godless heathens, or some such nonsense. Being born Catholic, and coming to view my path in this life as a pagan, I see the bible as more about controlling it's flock, than setting it free. Jesus taught alot about compassion and love, yet there is so little of that in today's world.

Yes and no. Just taught a lot of wisdom and love, but he also said he did not come to change the law, but to fulfill. Also that he did not come to bring peace, but a sword. I totally agree that many forms of religion have been used against people throughout history. Thank God for men like Gutenburg or men would still be lead around in darkness. However, those days have begun to reappear. Seperation of church and state has been misrepresented to the point that children at one point were literally taught to read and do math from the bible. Now they can't even pray or wear a shirt with a cross. Yet they same schools will still require a pledge of allegiance.  It's become very tainted    Responsible men should be doing their best to set it straight though.

[crudos]

Yes and no. Just taught a lot of wisdom and love, but he also said he did not come to change the law, but to fulfill. Also that he did not come to bring peace, but a sword. I totally agree that many forms of religion have been used against people throughout history. Thank God for men like Gutenburg or men would still be lead around in darkness. However, those days have begun to reappear. Seperation of church and state has been misrepresented to the point that children at one point were literally taught to read and do math from the bible. Now they can't even pray or wear a shirt with a cross. Yet they same schools will still require a pledge of allegiance.  It's become very tainted    Responsible men should be doing their best to set it straight though.

Only because they didn't have text books, and for better or for worse, was a book almost any family had around. We have textbooks readily available these days. As far as students being discriminated for wearing religious apparel, it has happened to all faiths, not only Christians.

[WhiteWolf]

Yes and no. Just taught a lot of wisdom and love, but he also said he did not come to change the law, but to fulfill. Also that he did not come to bring peace, but a sword. I totally agree that many forms of religion have been used against people throughout history. Thank God for men like Gutenburg or men would still be lead around in darkness. However, those days have begun to reappear. Seperation of church and state has been misrepresented to the point that children at one point were literally taught to read and do math from the bible. Now they can't even pray or wear a shirt with a cross. Yet they same schools will still require a pledge of allegiance.  It's become very tainted    Responsible men should be doing their best to set it straight though.

Only because they didn't have text books, and for better or for worse, was a book almost any family had around. We have textbooks readily available these days. As far as students being discriminated for wearing religious apparel, it has happened to all faiths, not only Christians.

So Muslims can speak out against the country, government, etc. Buddhist, Hindus, and even Jews, but if a Christian preacher does the church can be punished. Not familiar with the IRS Johnson Amendmant of 1954? Christians have been a target for years. Bleeding hearts can say other religions are treated the same, but it's simply without merit. Our government bends over backwards for Islam, but spits in the face of Christians who built this country. 
Oh, yes I know they didn't have Bibles. That why I mentioned Gutenburg. Now they're just to lazy to read them on their own and church has become a social thing. There are a lot of dead churches nowadays.

[sledge]

So Muslims can speak out against the country, government, etc. Buddhist, Hindus, and even Jews, but if a Christian preacher does the church can be punished. Not familiar with the IRS Johnson Amendmant of 1954? Christians have been a target for years. Bleeding hearts can say other religions are treated the same, but it's simply without merit. Our government bends over backwards for Islam, but spits in the face of Christians who built this country. 



Amen!     

[crudos]

So Muslims can speak out against the country, government, etc. Buddhist, Hindus, and even Jews, but if a Christian preacher does the church can be punished. Not familiar with the IRS Johnson Amendmant of 1954? Christians have been a target for years. Bleeding hearts can say other religions are treated the same, but it's simply without merit. Our government bends over backwards for Islam, but spits in the face of Christians who built this country.
Oh, yes I know they didn't have Bibles. That why I mentioned Gutenburg. Now they're just to lazy to read them on their own and church has become a social thing. There are a lot of dead churches nowadays.

If a church gets non-profit status, then the preacher employed by said church should not be involved in political speech, especially endorsement of political candidates. Simple. My wife and I have alot of experience with 501(c)(3) non-profit religious organizations and their ability to endorse political candidates and so forth. Flavor of faith should not matter if you read the rules. Are Christians exempt from rules if their church wants to retain non-profit status? Pay taxes like everyone else, and spout whatever rhetoric they want, I have no problem with that. I disagree with Christians as targets, it's simply more victim mentality as that faith loses adherents and it's control over people.

[EJR914]

I do have to agree with one thing.  The policies that are now followed do bend over backwards for Islam and other religions, and Christianity really has gotten messed over.  Its everywhere if you go look for the articles.

Remember the one kid who was a (Seq) (spelling?!?!)  The schools let him bring a real daggar to a public school because it was part of his religious beliefs, but then kids, like the ones I know, go to jail for having a screwdriver in their truck that the use after school for work?

Also, Christian kids cannot pray in school, they can't wear certain t-shirts, and it gets worse.  Trust me, there is definitely an attack on Christianity in this country.  Its BS.

[sledge]

I disagree with Christians as targets, it's simply more victim mentality as that faith loses adherents and it's control over people.

Wow Cudos.  That is the first totally ridiculous statement I've seen you make.  Surely you're not that blind and that was a statement made in the passion of argument.

[crudos]

I disagree with Christians as targets, it's simply more victim mentality as that faith loses adherents and it's control over people.

Wow Cudos.  That is the first totally ridiculous statement I've seen you make.  Surely you're not that blind and that was a statement made in the passion of argument.

Christianity is rife with martyrs throughout it's history. I'd say I'm seeing more clearly than ever before.

[sledge]

I disagree with Christians as targets, it's simply more victim mentality as that faith loses adherents and it's control over people.

Wow Cudos.  That is the first totally ridiculous statement I've seen you make.  Surely you're not that blind and that was a statement made in the passion of argument.

Christianity is rife with martyrs throughout it's history. I'd say I'm seeing more clearly than ever before.

No doubt, as has every other religion been rife with martyrs.  And every religion has had crimes and evil committed in it's name by those whose true goals were power.  But just because evil men inhabit the Earth, that does not change the original message.  It happens across the board.  I would argue the Constitution has been corrupted by evil men who couldn't increase their power otherwise.  That doesn't change the original message of that document either.   

[crudos]

No doubt, as has every other religion been rife with martyrs.  And every religion has had crimes and evil committed in it's name by those whose true goals were power.  But just because evil men inhabit the Earth, that does not change the original message.  It happens across the board.  I would argue the Constitution has been corrupted by evil men who couldn't increase their power otherwise.  That doesn't change the original message of that document either.   

And what is the original message of the Constitution? The words are still the same, with some necessary additions, imo.

We the people... still means all citizens of this nation.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

[sledge]

No doubt, as has every other religion been rife with martyrs.  And every religion has had crimes and evil committed in it's name by those whose true goals were power.  But just because evil men inhabit the Earth, that does not change the original message.  It happens across the board.  I would argue the Constitution has been corrupted by evil men who couldn't increase their power otherwise.  That doesn't change the original message of that document either.   

And what is the original message of the Constitution? The words are still the same, with some necessary additions, imo.

We the people... still means all citizens of this nation.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

That our rights are God given to us.  (By the way, most, not all, of the writers of the Constitution were Christians.  I wonder what God they were referring to as our creator?  and secure the Blessings of Liberty  Who has the ability to give blessings?  Certainly not any man or government.   

[WhiteWolf]

I do have to agree with one thing.  The policies that are now followed do bend over backwards for Islam and other religions, and Christianity really has gotten messed over.  Its everywhere if you go look for the articles.

Remember the one kid who was a (Seq) (spelling?!?!)  The schools let him bring a real daggar to a public school because it was part of his religious beliefs, but then kids, like the ones I know, go to jail for having a screwdriver in their truck that the use after school for work?

Also, Christian kids cannot pray in school, they can't wear certain t-shirts, and it gets worse.  Trust me, there is definitely an attack on Christianity in this country.  Its BS.

[URL=http://www.smileyvault.co

[crudos]

That our rights are God given to us.  (By the way, most, not all, of the writers of the Constitution were Christians.  I wonder what God they were referring to as our creator?  and secure the Blessings of Liberty  Who has the ability to give blessings?  Certainly not any man or government.   

So only the Christian God can give blessings? I'd say Hindus would probably disagree. The original framers wrote it perfectly, stop trying to fit and enforce religious conformity upon the Constitution and the rest of non-Christian Americans.

[sledge]

That our rights are God given to us.  (By the way, most, not all, of the writers of the Constitution were Christians.  I wonder what God they were referring to as our creator?  and secure the Blessings of Liberty  Who has the ability to give blessings?  Certainly not any man or government.   

So only the Christian God can give blessings? I'd say Hindus would probably disagree. The original framers wrote it perfectly, stop trying to fit and enforce religious conformity upon the Constitution and the rest of non-Christian Americans.

I'm sorry that it took me a minute.  I was somewhat stunned by your reply.  I was trying to figure out how you took what I said, processed it, and came back with the reply that you did.   There was some kind of a short circuit in processing or something.  I still don't quite understand it.

The fact that most of the writers of the Constitution were Christians who believed in a Christian God, or that blessings by definition are only given by God is something that can't be argued with.  Well, I guess someone could argue against those facts but it just makes them seem out of touch with reality.  I mean, how do you change facts? 

As for me giving a damn about what religion, if any, a person believes is way off track.  Honestly, I simply do not care what anyone else believes or does not believe.  So I have NO interest in having anyone else conform to any religion or no religion.

I do however, have an interest in having those who would prevent me from believing what I choose to believe held accountable.  It has gotten way out of hand.  The concept is Freedom of Religion, Not Freedom From Religion. 

The concept of separation of Church and State is not contained in the Constitution, it is in a letter that Jefferson wrote.  The Constitution says that the Federal Government cannot impose a specific religion on it's citizens.  (ie, the Church of England)  Interestingly enough, it does not prevent individual states from doing so although to date none have.

Like I said above, I don't care what someone chooses to believe in relation to God.  It's not that they are not important as people.  It's just that I don't care.     

[WhiteWolf]

That our rights are God given to us.  (By the way, most, not all, of the writers of the Constitution were Christians.  I wonder what God they were referring to as our creator?  and secure the Blessings of Liberty  Who has the ability to give blessings?  Certainly not any man or government.   

So only the Christian God can give blessings? I'd say Hindus would probably disagree. The original framers wrote it perfectly, stop trying to fit and enforce religious conformity upon the Constitution and the rest of non-Christian Americans.

Facts are facts man whether we like them or not. And this nations "founding fathers" weren't even really the guys people often refer to. In fact the Pilgrims were far more our founding fathers than deist like Thomas Jefferson and his occult buddy Benjamin Franklin. I mean Crudos, not to be a dick, because really you seem like a nice guy, but why would I listen to what you or others holding your views have to say? Do you have any idea how much time I've put on to apologetics, theology, and just reading canonized and non-canonized biblical works, world history, Meso-American history and myths, Egyptian history and myths, Sumerian myths, Greek myths, evolution, prophecy, Hebrew, Greek, Latin, astronomy, etc. and etc. There is but ONE true GOD, and the fakes aren't hard to discredit if you know what you're looking for. Truly Crudos, if I'm wrong, I challenge you to study it and prove it in front of everyone here. Make me put my foot in my mouth. I'll tell you right now though, you're not going to find a short answer on the internet, and it's going to take some SERIOUS time. And that right there is the beauty of it. See I could just tell you in so many words how, why, and where you went wrong with your world view on God and Christianity, but you wouldn't believe me if I did. Even if it was undeniable fact. If you see it for yourself though? Well that's a different story. 

[WhiteWolf]

That our rights are God given to us.  (By the way, most, not all, of the writers of the Constitution were Christians.  I wonder what God they were referring to as our creator?  and secure the Blessings of Liberty  Who has the ability to give blessings?  Certainly not any man or government.   

So only the Christian God can give blessings? I'd say Hindus would probably disagree. The original framers wrote it perfectly, stop trying to fit and enforce religious conformity upon the Constitution and the rest of non-Christian Americans.

I'm sorry that it took me a minute.  I was somewhat stunned by your reply.  I was trying to figure out how you took what I said, processed it, and came back with the reply that you did.   There was some kind of a short circuit in processing or something.  I still don't quite understand it.

The fact that most of the writers of the Constitution were Christians who believed in a Christian God, or that blessings by definition are only given by God is something that can't be argued with.  Well, I guess someone could argue against those facts but it just makes them seem out of touch with reality.  I mean, how do you change facts?  Well, technically, many were deist, but many still believed in the Hebrew god of the Bible yes. Some others who were involved with Free Masonry accepted all "gods" as equal. So the "god" they speak of is rather ambiguous considering our God is called Yahweh. Considering how long it took them to agree on the Great Seal I have little doubt "God" was a compromise from bickering parties whom decided to let educated men chose for themselves. This is unfortunately where it went horribly wrong. In 1816 a man by the name of Robert Owen submitted an outline for the public education system of England. At this time it was also introduced to the newly founded USA. Thomas Jefferson was a primary component of America's early public education system and shared similar views to Owens that a man character is molded by society. And that mass education could be used to mold the character of an entire nation. Owen also stressed the need for teacher training institutions. Sounds good right? 

Well here's where it started folks. In 1820 a gentleman by the name of Orestes Brownson, follower and colleague of Own, revealed their true intentions in his autobiography. "Our great objective was to get rid of Christianity and to convert our churches into halls of science. The plan was not to make open attacks on religion, but to establish a system of state, we said national, schools, from which all religion was to be excluded. In which nothing was to be taught but such knowledge as is verifiable to the senses and to which all parents were to be compelled by law send their children. For this purpose, a secret society was formed and the whole country was to be organized as were the revolutionists thoughtout Europe by Bazard preparatory to the revolutions of 1820 and 1830." I could go on from here, and if people don't get the picture I gladly will. More than likely tomorrow though. I've been up since 4am.

As for me giving a damn about what religion, if any, a person believes is way off track.  Honestly, I simply do not care what anyone else believes or does not believe.  So I have NO interest in having anyone else conform to any religion or no religion.I do care. Greatly. Not because I want to rub something in anyones face or say "Haha I was right." I actually care that people in this nation and throughout the world have been falsely indoctrinated with bullshit ideals and false beliefs. I'm not going to cut off anyones hand over it, but I'll be damned if I just sit idley by and watch. Just to quote a few for perspective on this;

James Madison "A people who mean to be their own Governors must arm themselves with the power that knowledge gives."
We have failed EPICLY at that.

John Adams "The whole people must take upon themselves the education of the whole people and must be willing to bear the expense of it." And we do so, but I'd argue this, if the majority of this nation claims to be Christian than why would Christian knowledge not be taught? Over 70% of Americans in this nation in 2011 identified themselves as a "Christian." FACT. We have allowed ourselves and our children to be indoctrinated with lies and secular humanism for too damn long. Christians need to draw a line in the sand and they need to do it NOW.

I do however, have an interest in having those who would prevent me from believing what I choose to believe held accountable.  It has gotten way out of hand.  The concept is Freedom of Religion, Not Freedom From Religion. 

The concept of separation of Church and State is not contained in the Constitution, it is in a letter that Jefferson wrote.  The Constitution says that the Federal Government cannot impose a specific religion on it's citizens.  (ie, the Church of England)  Interestingly enough, it does not prevent individual states from doing so although to date none have.

Like I said above, I don't care what someone chooses to believe in relation to God.  It's not that they are not important as people.  It's just that I don't care.