Unchained Preppers
General Category => News & Politics => Topic started by: NOLA556 on May 21, 2012, 07:43:22 PM
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on the way out to the BOL this weekend, my dad and I were arguing politics like we always do. he can't stand Paul, he's a Romney guy.
so anyway, he says something that I thought was pretty bombshell, and didn't quite know how to respond to it. he says something along the lines of:
all you Paul people that scream and cry about "voting on principal", all you're doing is handing Obama another 4 years. I understand that there's issues with Romney, I'm not 100% on him either, but my main focus is getting Obama out of office.
at which point I told him that Romney won't be much different from Obama, or Bush... etc..
but then I started thinking, even if Romney is just another continuation of Obama/Bush, would he be at least slightly better on certain key issues such as NDAA, CISPA, etc...?
to clarify, I'm NOT in any way throwing in my support for Romney, I still hate that fucker and I don't believe in voting for the "lesser of two evils". BUT, would we be averting a MAJOR calamity, as in, WW3, by electing him for the sole purpose of ousting Barry? I don't know. Mainline republicans are all for war with Iran, so Romney might be even WORSE than Obama in the WW3 department. Or maybe not. Maybe he'll see the growing anti-war movement and exploit it for popularity points.
just a thought process that was running through my head. I don't support Romney, but is the "lesser of two evils" our only hope for avoiding a nuclear WW3?
what do you think?
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Obama= what is probably the most direct route to TSHTF.
Romney = a slow lingering death.
It's a matter of which flavor of pain you prefer.
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I've basically settled on the fact that it is going to be either Obama or Romney. It doesn't matter who I like. It doesn't matter who else is out there.
So my choice is between someone who I know what they'll do and I don't like it. OR someone I'm stuck with whom I wish was someone else, that I don't know exactly what he'll do.
It's almost like a choice between Obama and a more moderate Obama.
IDK, decisions, decisions.
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i would rather throw my vote away my one vote and your one vote Nola, ain't gonna make a damn difference one way or the other! I would love to see the vote here in Ga so split my between the GOP and libertarians that the state went blue! But that's not gonna happen I will still vote on principal!
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Obama= what is probably the most direct route to TSHTF.
Romney = a slow lingering death.
It's a matter of which flavor of pain you prefer.
I agree 100%. but this is my whole point. if we can survive 4 years of Romney without self-destructing entirely, possibly 2016 could bring a better opportunity to elect a better alternative. I don't want to see a Romney presidency, but I REALLY don't want to see another 4 years of Barry. I'm genuinely sorry to sound like Fox News right now, I really am, but I have little faith that Paul (or any other legit alternative to the mainstream) will be allowed to even come close to winning. EVEN IF Paul is the rightful winner of the convention in Tampa, they've used overt and blatant fraud in many of the state conventions already to prevent a Paul victory, and they'll do it at the national convention if they need to.
all the Paul supporters are either not going to vote, or their going to vote for Johnson, which is respectable, but that translates into 4 more years no matter how you cut it.
my point is that even though Romney won't be much better than Barry, MAYBE electing him will allow us to survive long enough to get to the 2016 elections.
I feel the need to stress yet again, I'M NOT SUPPORTING ROMNEY! I know it sounds like I am, and in all honestly, I'll most likely vote Johnson if Paul doesn't win the nomination, but this thing really has me thinking. 4 more years? I know voting on principal is important, and it's by far the most respectable path to choose. you can even dig up multiple threads right here on straightprep where I have argued for voting on principal. but IMO we face a situation so dyer and so deeply threatening to our society that even I, a staunch Libertarian and supporter of principled voting practices, am beginning to weigh my options and entertaining the idea of playing into the 2-party paradigm if it means averting a full-on collapse.
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Dude the collapse is going to happen no matter who is in office one man cant stop it
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Dude the collapse is going to happen no matter who is in office one man cant stop it
you're probably right. maybe I'm just scared and trying to buy time. I don't know. I'm not ready for it bro.
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Dude the collapse is going to happen no matter who is in office one man cant stop it
one man can't single-handedly stop it, but he can certainly put a giant dent in the process. think about it. no bogus executive orders, for starters. (I'm talking about Paul here, not Romney)
Paul would never approve of ANY of the things that we fear such as our own service-men turning on us. remember that recent thread that I started where I got myself in some serious hot water? "why join the military"? imagine how great it would be to KNOW FOR SURE that your Commander In Chief would NEVER give bogus orders to our service-men.
you're right that one man can't single-handedly stop this freight train, but he can certainly throw a wrench in the engine.
EDIT: I know this particular post doesn't have much to do with the thread, but I was specifically addressing what GAP said.
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1) I don't care if you vote for Romney or Barry, you can't stay home you have to vote! Vote for NOLA, or RvR or Daffy Duck however
like open carry- Use it or lose it.
2) I am a old fart. I cut my political teeth during the Nixon, Ford, Carter, Regan years. With that said, we can't let the socialist have
a second term. If you think what he did in his first term was nauseating what he will do in his second term will cause you to put
a ice pick in your left ear.
3) With a new president comes the following:
> Conservative Supreme Court Judges, and
> On his tailcoats will come a conservative US Congress...
Or with Barry a:
> Liberal Supreme Court Judges, and
> More gridlock and end arounds called Executive Orders.
Last but not least: I am not a Romney supporter but I will vote for him to get Barry out of the white house. I am working for a small company and we are actually basing our 2013 business strategy on who wins the president race. Romney we do X and Barry we do Y. Y is selling the company or letting it go bankrupt. The new regultions and tightness of moneys is killing us.
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This is my take on the whole situation. Romney will most likely obtain the nomination even though I had wished the American people would understand the dire situation we are in and would have chosen Paul even though there was a high probability of election fraud. While Romney seams to not be as extreme as Obummer, but his track reordered tells a different story. Especially regarding the second amendment where unlike Obummer actually signed and favored legislation to indefinitely outlaw certain types of firearms and confiscate weapons from residents along with other legislation such as Romney care. His recorded of being a business man helps him in that Obummer was never involved in the privet sector so he has some experience but I don?t think he cares about how the Fed aka Goldman Sachs has the American people by the balls. While also falling or just plainly disregarding how economics really work Austrian style. to the point I am trying to make is Romney could be worse than Obummer because at least we know what Obummer stands for unlike Romney who could be a wild card on issues because of his back ground of flip flopping and those who are afraid of what Obummer is doing will go to sleep because ?there? guy got in. on another point Obummer is smashing down hard on the accelerator heading to the cliff of financial disaster. If we get Romney he will be just smashing down half as hard, but still heading for the cliff. It?s almost like a sick game, do you want to go off the cliff at full speed clearing the jagged rocks on the side and fly right to the ground in a fiery doom or just go off rolling down the cliff on fire and hitting the same bottom, either way it?s going to hurt really bad. But I understand your point NOLA since we are heading for the cli feather way It would be nice to slow down so we can have more time to prepare but at the same time the longer a true collapse and recovery is pushed off the more it is going to hurt down the road when it is forced to happen.
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Fuck Romney! Fuck the GOP, Fuck them all to HELL! They have brought this collapse on us, just as much as the Democrats have. FUCK THEM ALL!
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OK EJR I get it however are you going to stay home or vote and write in Paul, GAP, or yourself? Personnaly I am thinking of writing in my right shoe. Maybe the Vp pick could be my right sock. :-)
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1) I don't care if you vote for Romney or Barry, you can't stay home you have to vote! Vote for NOLA, or RvR or Daffy Duck however
like open carry- Use it or lose it.
2) I am a old fart. I cut my political teeth during the Nixon, Ford, Carter, Regan years. With that said, we can't let the socialist have
a second term. If you think what he did in his first term was nauseating what he will do in his second term will cause you to put
a ice pick in your left ear.
3) With a new president comes the following:
> Conservative Supreme Court Judges, and
> On his tailcoats will come a conservative US Congress...
Or with Barry a:
> Liberal Supreme Court Judges, and
> More gridlock and end arounds called Executive Orders.
Last but not least: I am not a Romney supporter but I will vote for him to get Barry out of the white house. I am working for a small company and we are actually basing our 2013 business strategy on who wins the president race. Romney we do X and Barry we do Y. Y is selling the company or letting it go bankrupt. The new regultions and tightness of moneys is killing us.
And that is why I am not voting for Romney but holding my nose and voting AGAINST Obama (I'd vote for freaking Carter if he was on the ticket opposite obama). Guys you DO NOT want a liberal SCOTUS. You can kiss any remaining shreds of the Bill of Rights goodbye if the SCOTUS goes majority progressive dem.
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Obama or Romney, not one speck of difference in where the country will be in four years. Vote for Gary Johnson, and we'll have a legitimate third party to rally behind. How ever you hold your nose and vote, shit still smells like shit. At least we'll be able to turn turds into fertilizer in four years, then watch America grow again.
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Six months out and Johnson is even less known than Perot was in 92 when Clinton was elected. The media is giving his squat for coverage (honestly I wouldn't even know he was running if it wasn't for this forum). Be real - he has a snowballs chance of winning. Vote your conscience, but don't scream murder when chicago jesus gets re-elected.
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Six months out and Johnson is even less known than Perot was in 92 when Clinton was elected. The media is giving his squat for coverage (honestly I wouldn't even know he was running if it wasn't for this forum). Be real - he has a snowballs chance of winning. Vote your conscience, but don't scream murder when chicago jesus gets re-elected.
perfect.
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guys try to stick to the topic of the thread. do you believe Barry is more likely to kick-off WW3, or Romney? it may sound silly, but that is what's on my mind right now. it's not that I'm supporting Romney, but if he'll buy us a few years without a collapse... long enough to vote his ass out in 2016.. then I'm down for it.
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Obama= what is probably the most direct route to TSHTF.
Romney = a slow lingering death.
It's a matter of which flavor of pain you prefer.
Just send it. I mean, I'm not rooting for a collapse or anything. But I'm the type of person that just likes to get stuff done.
All worried about it & nervous the night prior, but when it's go time. Calm, Cool, & Collected. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
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guys try to stick to the topic of the thread. do you believe Barry is more likely to kick-off WW3, or Romney? it may sound silly, but that is what's on my mind right now. it's not that I'm supporting Romney, but if he'll buy us a few years without a collapse... long enough to vote his ass out in 2016.. then I'm down for it.
Funny how Presidential election cycles keep on the same meme; if we let [insert name here] get elected (or re-elected), WW3 will surely be the result. So make sure you keep the status quo going folks like good little followers. And then next time we vote to dismantle the two party system. Except next time comes, and we are presented with the same quandary, and the same result happens. Not poking at you NOLA, or anyone, but it's amazing how the same themes emerge each election cycle. How each election, our choices are made out of fear.
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We will know if Barry is into the WW3 thang before the election. It is one of the things in his (Any President) bag of "getting re-elected" bag of tricks. I can see him attacking Iran and then him saying, "you can't vote for 'the other guy' in a time of war."
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I don't know about your particular State, but if you pay close attention to the ELECTORAL COLLEGE, and the way that State DELEGATES chose who is nominated for election, you realize that for the presidential election, your vote counts VERY LITTLE.
Right now, I live in a State that will 100 percent guaranteed go to Mittens NO matter who in the hell was running against him, and no matter what in the hell I do on election day. You know what that does to me, IT FREES ME UP TO VOTE MY PRINCIPLE. And you know what, it matters not one fucking unicorn fart WHO I VOTE FOR, or if I stay home that day watch porn and drink myself stupid, MITTENS WILL BE ELECTED IN MY HOME STATE.
I will vote my principle, Mittens will still get my State's Electoral College votes, and I can lay my head on the pillow at night with a CLEAR CONSCIENCE, and I will sleep just fucking fine at night. I literally could not live with myself for voting for scum like Mitt or Obama, and to be honest, I question how many of you could. I would rather put a bullet through my fucking head right now, than to vote for scum like Mitt Romney. Since it matters not what I do on election day, I will vote my principle.
First off, study the electoral process for the president of the US, so you're not ignorant about HOW the president is elected. The Electoral College elects the president of the US in this country, NOT POPULAR VOTE, YOUR VOTE DOESN'T count, when it comes to electing a president. The only thing that matters are the State delegate votes that put up a nominee from your State, and then finally the Electoral College votes FROM YOUR STATE.
Secondly, find out which way YOUR State usually goes, look at past voting history, and demographics, besides maybe Hispanic, have probably NOT changed enough to make your State go the other way. I don't know about you, but study your individual State. I KNOW mine will go for Mittens NO matter what the fuck I do on election day. My vote basically counts NONE. Its really just a protest vote, and a vote for principle, a vote for conscience, so I can sleep soundly at night, and not put a bullet through my head. I REFUSE to vote for Fascist, Socialist, Polite State enablers like Romney or Obama. I am an Irreconcilable! You'd have to kill me to change my mind on this.
I can also tell my grandchildren one day, that I never voted for scum like the likes of Obama or Mittens, but that I voted for principle, I voted MY conscience, I voted for true freedom, Freedom the Founding Fathers believed in, freedom both socially and economically, instead of voting for some asshole who is going to do NOTHING but continue our country down the same road to a Socialist Police State, like we've been doing for the past 150 years in this country.
Will you be able to tell your grandchildren that?
I'm sorry for the rant, but Jesus, educate yourself on the electoral process, educate yourself on the demographics and politics of your state, if you're in a swing state, you're in a dilemma, but if you're not, VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE, VOTE YOUR PRINCIPLES, because to be honest, your vote matters NOT for the presidential election, who is really elected by the ELECTORAL COLLEGE. And the nominee for your State is voted in by DELEGATES.
What is the definition of INSANITY? Doing the same thing over and over again, while expecting a different RESULT. By all means, Keep Voting in these Establishment GOP types, and we WILL keep sliding into a Socialist Police State, I can promise you that!
For Fuck sake. [img]http://www.arrse.co.uk/at
Also, to add to this, the collapse is happening, either sooner or later, and it matters NOT at this point, who is elected president at this time, anyway.
Please stop it with this MINDLESS sheeple insanity that you've had drilled into your head your whole life, that you HAVE to vote for an Establishment GOP, because if you don't the EVIL Democrats will gain office, stack the Supreme Court liberal, and all your rights will be taken away! Hell that happens ever 4 or 8 years ANY FUCKING WAY. Not to mention, about one out of all of our SCJ get it right, EVER on the side of freedom and liberty when it comes to a case. The USSC is ALREADY stacked with a bunch of freedom hating Fascist Socialist, that have allowed our country to get to this point, ANYWAY, not to mention, the USSC arbitrarily granted themselves THE POWER, all by themselves, to steer the direction of our country, something that was never intended in the first place. Do you really think a dirty Fascist Socialist president would appoint a SCJ to the bench that would really tell him that he COULDN'T DO SOMETHING? Fuck NO the president's wouldn't, they keep putting SCJ on the bench that they KNOW will pretty much allow them to do whatever the fuck they want to do, but just enough to keep the people from standing up and rioting in defense of their freedoms and liberties. They have destroyed us through incrementalism, anyway. They know they can get away with just so much without the people standing up and rioting, and the three branches test those bounds every freaking day, and then take public opinion polls to see what will get people rioting. Don't believe me? They figured out they could ram Obamacare down the throats of America and we wouldn't riot in the streets, and guess what they DID it and NOBODY rioted out in the streets. Watch this SC decision on Obamacare, they may knock out the individual mandate, but the rest of the law will be ruled Constitutional, and the majority of the law will STILL be on the books. Watch it. The only reason we got the half-ass Heller decision on the 2nd amendment was to quell the gun nuts in this country from standing up and rioting. What good are your 2nd amendment rights, if they are LEGALLY infringed upon by "reasonable restrictions" in a Fascist Socialist country? They are just about good enough to start a bloody fucking mess one day, 150 years too late, that will just lead to more Fascism and a hard crackdown on everyone.
Think for yourself for once in your fucking life, become self-educated, become an independent thinking, and stop it with this mindless sheeple insanity bullshit, that keeps getting repeated over and over again by our public schools, our media, our politicians, everybody, and then you come repeat this same mindless sheeple insanity bullshit right back to me. FUCK!
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Superb post EJR.
So many good posts lately around here, I'm handing out + karma like M&M's. :D
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Thanks Crudos, I appreciate it. I will proudly stand up and vote for Gary Johnson, or whoever the 3rd party Libertarian nominee is as long as he is a true believer in social and economic freedoms, and Johnson will be on the ballot in my State anyway, so you can be damn sure, I'll proudly vote for him, and I'll get home that night and I'll sleep like a baby, too. It won't bother my conscience one bit, like voting for Mittens or Obama would.
And in the end, my State's Electoral College votes will still go for Mitt Romney, anyway. No skin off my back.
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I'm curious to see how it stacks up. I think way too many folks are making way too many assumptions six months out.
My official prediction: four more years of chicago jesus and the weather gang.
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I would put money on it going to Obama, no doubt about it, and it matters NOT ONE BIT, who I cast my vote for during the presidential election, or if I stay home that day and do not vote at all. My State's Electoral College Votes are going for Mitt Romney. I already know this. I've done my research, and I say it with 100 percent certainty.
If voting in this country actually made a difference, they would outlaw it.
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I just don't know what to believe anymore. That's kind of the reason I posted the thread, just to get some feedback from you guys. I'm not trying to purvey any message with the thread, I meant the title to be literal. It's open-ended.
I began "waking up" shortly after the '08 elections so I never really paid much attention to politics before that so I don't have any previous experience with national elections to refer back to. (I'm only 24, it's not like I have decades of life experience to refer back to either)
I just don't know what the fuck to think, or what I should do. I hate Romney like the day is long, no less than I hate our current dictator. The only thing that has me thinking is the common sentiment that "the Republicans are taking us down the same path, just at a slightly slower rate". I agree with that analysis, and as much as I hate Romney, he MAY, JUST MAYBE, buy us enough time to get to 2016 without a full scale collapse. Or... like Crudos said, maybe the "imminent collapse" fear-driven mentality really HAS been around for a long time. There have been doomsayers preaching about WW3 and imminent collapse since... well since WW2. My only quarrel with Crudos here is that WHAT IF this is really it. The real deal. I'd hate to brush off this looming fear of WW3 right at the moment when I should truly be worrying about it. There's just no telling what our "rulers" will do, which is partly what makes this prepping game so frustrating.
And EJR, I share your sentiment about individual votes not really counting for much, but I think you're overblowing it just a bit. If it really doesn't count for ANYTHING, then why are you going to waste your time in November? So you can tell your grandkids that you participated in the dog-and-pony-show like a good American? If you really believed 100% of what you're saying, then right now as I type this you'd be going full-retard and finding out where your Senators live. (of course, I'm just humorously making a point, you all know I'm not condoning any such activity)
anyway, I just wanted to give you guys a little insight into what's running through my thoughts right now regarding this topic. I'm extremely frustrated because I can't trust ANY information source, thus making it impossible to weigh my political options. I don't know whether to give up on Paul or keep up the fight all the way to Tampa, throw away my vote on Johnson (I don't dislike Johnson, but the mainstream is right on this one, a vote for Johnson is, in reality, a vote for Obama. Sure you can be proud to have voted on principal, which is respectable, but splitting up the GOP vote just puts mein Fuhrer right back into office), or to hold my nose, suppress my gag reflex, and cast my vote for Romney...
I just don't know what the fuck I should do at this point. I can continue to scream RON PAUL 2012!!!! from the fucking rooftops, but in the end, I'm getting a growing feeling that I'm just jerking myself off.
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NOLA,
would you vote for a Romney/ Rand Paul ticket?
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NOLA,
would you vote for a Romney/ Rand Paul ticket?
I've recently lost alot of respect for Rand. My gut tells me he's far more corruptible than his father. He spoke at something called the "Faith and Freedom" rally (or something like that) and said alot of cool stuff, but one thing he said that disgusted me was "Obama just came out in support of gay marriage, I didn't think his policies could get any gayer"...
On it's face, the comment is actually pretty funny. I support gay people's rights, but at the same time, I'm not at all PC, so I got a chuckle out of it. It's not that particular comment that bothered me, rather, his willingness to conform to whatever crowd he happens to be speaking to. Like a grade-A politician.
So to answer your question, no, a Rand Paul VP scenario wouldn't make me any more likely to vote for Romney. Rand has disappointed me in a major way.
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And EJR, I share your sentiment about individual votes not really counting for much, but I think you're overblowing it just a bit. If it really doesn't count for ANYTHING, then why are you going to waste your time in November? So you can tell your grandkids that you participated in the dog-and-pony-show like a good American? If you really believed 100% of what you're saying, then right now as I type this you'd be going full-retard and finding out where your Senators live. (of course, I'm just humorously making a point, you all know I'm not condoning any such activity)
anyway, I just wanted to give you guys a little insight into what's running through my thoughts right now regarding this topic. I'm extremely frustrated because I can't trust ANY information source, thus making it impossible to weigh my political options. I don't know whether to give up on Paul or keep up the fight all the way to Tampa, throw away my vote on Johnson (I don't dislike Johnson, but the mainstream is right on this one, a vote for Johnson is, in reality, a vote for Obama. Sure you can be proud to have voted on principal, which is respectable, but splitting up the GOP vote just puts mein Fuhrer right back into office), or to hold my nose, suppress my gag reflex, and cast my vote for Romney...
I just don't know what the fuck I should do at this point. I can continue to scream RON PAUL 2012!!!! from the fucking rooftops, but in the end, I'm getting a growing feeling that I'm just jerking myself off.
I'm not overblowing anything. Voting on the National level is really just like a ritual, nothing more, nothing less. I do it, to give homage to the shadow, a relic, of the former Republic of the United States of America. I know it useless, and to be honest, I'm not convinced I will go and vote in November, because I know my vote doesn't count one ounce at all. I guess it might make me FEEL good, to vote for principle, but I know it is nothing more than a FEEL GOOD action, and actually has no REAL effect on the election at all.
If anything, it can be described as a protest vote. A vote against the path that the US is on.
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Please keep in mind when you go to the voting booth in Nov you are voting for a lot more then a man filling a slot; you are voting for:
> New appointees to the Supreme Court
> You are voting for recommended Federal judges to district courts
> You are voting for US Congressmen/women (Senate and House)
> In many cases you are voting for governors
> You are voting for local state legislatures,
Do I need to go on???
You don't like Romney (I certainly don't) however I do not want Barry recommending new members to the Supreme and District courts. IMO the courts are the guard dogs preventing the hoards from coming in the door. That is why they are appointed to life positions and do not have to face reelections.
I am getting wordy here and I am sorry. I am just trying to say your vote is more important then you think.
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JM, I agree with your assessment on the importance of voting for local and state elections. Often they effect you and me alot more than the Presidential election does. Still not voting for Romney though. :))
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Obama= what is probably the most direct route to TSHTF.
Romney = a slow lingering death.
It's a matter of which flavor of pain you prefer.
Not that i agree toatally. but on this comment ill say i prefer the slow lingering decline. It buys me more time to prepare and to open the eys of others. But on the whole i see the same shit just in different piles.
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Please keep in mind when you go to the voting booth in Nov you are voting for a lot more then a man filling a slot; you are voting for:
> New appointees to the Supreme Court
> You are voting for recommended Federal judges to district courts
> You are voting for US Congressmen/women (Senate and House)
> In many cases you are voting for governors
> You are voting for local state legislatures,
Do I need to go on???
You don't like Romney (I certainly don't) however I do not want Barry recommending new members to the Supreme and District courts. IMO the courts are the guard dogs preventing the hoards from coming in the door. That is why they are appointed to life positions and do not have to face reelections.
I am getting wordy here and I am sorry. I am just trying to say your vote is more important then you think.
Voting locally, like county or city level (you should be trying to get out of a city, not matter how small) and then State level actually probably does do some good. My Congressmen and Senators on the National level just do not change out BY VOTE. The only way the change is when they drop out, and then a new criminal comes into office for as long as they want, voting them out is just as impossible as voting Ron Paul or Gary Johnson, in the president slot. Of course, unless they want to be out of office.
So vote on the State level and county level is good, but the National level is a lost cause, IMHO.
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Cool Crudos and EJR...I am glad you are going to vote for your local and state communities. [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co