Unchained Preppers

Communications => Comm Discussion => Topic started by: EJR914 on September 09, 2011, 10:00:23 AM

Title: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: EJR914 on September 09, 2011, 10:00:23 AM
A few of us were talking one night and we all agreed it would be nice to try and keep in touch with members here in WROL, and I guess we mean not by mail or rider.  Something like that may be impossible, but I'm willing to get that answer as well. 

Is there any really long distance way to keep in touch, say, CB radio, or Short-wave radio, long distance, so we could check up on each other, if only once a week, month, or year?  I'm also fully aware that that might just as well be impossible as well, and I know that people are going to have so many crazy things going on in WROL that they might not make a meeting to get on the radio or whatever the reason, you don't link up, but I"m just talking about the rare chance of maybe being able to link up somehow.

I know some of us are planning to have some electricity through batteries, solar panels, or maybe even other ways, maybe generators.  I know we won't have a lot or endless amounts of electricity by any means.

Do any of ya'll have a lot of experience with commo, maybe military or civilian?

If we wanted to try and keep in touch during WROL, what would we need?  How would we do it?

Any experience or ideas on this?  Any suggestion is welcome.

I also know some of you will say you won't have time, or why would you want to do that, but its really just an exercise in long-range commo.  Never mind if we would actually do it.

Now if something like this is literally impossible, as in there is actually no way to do it, even in a perfect WROL scenario, with certain good things going for us, then that is fine too.  Let me know that is well.

Is something like long-distance vocal commo even possible in WROL?

Thank you for your replies and suggestions ahead of time.  They are much appreciated.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: WhiskeyJack on September 09, 2011, 10:58:27 AM
The old ham radio systems were used to communicat around the world long before the internet. I havnt looked into it yet but it would be a viable source of comms. Perhaps someone is still producing newer models of this classic radio.
And if ur really desperate you can bounce a morse code signal of the atmosphere with nothing but a 9volt battery. lol
But i sure as hell dont know how to do it, nor do i know morse code.
We could potentially try a community project to get a preppers radio network put together. This would be a good chance to try our hands at some real logistical cooperation. This system could also be used in conjunction with CB systems. The first weather services in america used ham radio to track and report weather systems. this system would provide hours if not a day of more of early warrning about bad weather. Just my .02 cents
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: EJR914 on September 09, 2011, 04:42:13 PM
The old ham radio systems were used to communicat around the world long before the internet. I havnt looked into it yet but it would be a viable source of comms. Perhaps someone is still producing newer models of this classic radio.
And if ur really desperate you can bounce a morse code signal of the atmosphere with nothing but a 9volt battery. lol
But i sure as hell dont know how to do it, nor do i know morse code.
We could potentially try a community project to get a preppers radio network put together. This would be a good chance to try our hands at some real logistical cooperation. This system could also be used in conjunction with CB systems. The first weather services in america used ham radio to track and report weather systems. this system would provide hours if not a day of more of early warrning about bad weather. Just my .02 cents


Awesome man!  Thanks so much for the information.  Also, I remember hearing about bouncing signals off the atmosphere with a 9V battery, pretty cool man.   [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: STRAITJACKET on September 09, 2011, 05:01:54 PM
 Sounds like a great idea too me , a network of sorts, just being able to make contact with others would be a huge moral boost. Not to mention you would be able to get the low down of whats happening in other parts of the country. One might be able to avoid hot spots/danger areas if they were going to try to move out or had to travel for any reason.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: WhiskeyJack on September 09, 2011, 05:39:53 PM
I would like to say to anyone who is thinking of any kind of traveling radio system. A TM on feild expediant antennas is a must. I cant stress this enough. They are actually simple systems that can add a rediculous amount of range to a decent radio system.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: S1nn3r1 on September 10, 2011, 01:00:45 AM
 I know a guy on You tube is pretty experienced with ham radio and such. 92scalloped this is his link : http://www.youtube.com/user/92Scalloped  He's a pretty cool guy. He might have some info.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: JohnyMac on September 10, 2011, 12:15:58 PM
Yes, yes, yes!

I have been trying to learn more about receivers and transmitters but it seems that nobody in the ham network or the stores that sell equipment want to talk to me. I guess because I am looking for used equipment not brand new.

S1nn3r1, maybe you could introduce me to this guy?
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: 92Scalloped on September 10, 2011, 07:21:26 PM
Hi all.  Nice forum and thanks for the invite.  A Preppers Communications Network?  This would be a good project to tackle this fall.  I'm thinking of creating some standard meeting locations on each band.  If we look at the spectrum of radio bands, we could choose a frequency for each.  Let me list each of the possible bands:

160 meter
80 meter
40 meter
20 meter
10 meter
c.b. channel 33; AM, upper & lower sideband
6 meter
2 meter
220 mhz
70cm (440)
FRS Channel 1
GMRS Channel 1
900 mhz

If all preppers were to come together and agree on a common frequency for each of these bands, we could come up with a National comm's system.  I'll need to study each band to identify potential frequencies or channels.  As a very large group, we could approach repeater owners to see if they would be willing to link their repeater in a chain of repeaters.  If anybody else has some input, please drop a reply.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: WhiskeyJack on September 11, 2011, 10:57:40 AM
Hey scalloped so glad you made it it over. I hope we can offer you some info you may not have already. And i know you can teach us a thing or two. Welcome to the party man [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: JohnyMac on September 11, 2011, 01:16:04 PM
Scalloped, I would like to play but don't know what to buy. I am unemployed and on a budget but am will to buy what ever I need from Craig's list or EBay.

Just need to know wher to start.
Thx
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: EJR914 on September 12, 2011, 01:07:52 PM
Sounds like a great idea too me , a network of sorts, just being able to make contact with others would be a huge moral boost. Not to mention you would be able to get the low down of whats happening in other parts of the country. One might be able to avoid hot spots/danger areas if they were going to try to move out or had to travel for any reason.


My thoughts exactly.  Moral boosts and learning about what is going on in other parts of the country or just in other parts of your state.  I could actually help you out, especially if you know some trouble is coming your way.  The usefulness could be endless.   [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: EJR914 on September 12, 2011, 01:10:33 PM
Hi all.  Nice forum and thanks for the invite.  A Preppers Communications Network?  This would be a good project to tackle this fall.  I'm thinking of creating some standard meeting locations on each band.  If we look at the spectrum of radio bands, we could choose a frequency for each.  Let me list each of the possible bands:

160 meter
80 meter
40 meter
20 meter
10 meter
c.b. channel 33; AM, upper & lower sideband
6 meter
2 meter
220 mhz
70cm (440)
FRS Channel 1
GMRS Channel 1
900 mhz

If all preppers were to come together and agree on a common frequency for each of these bands, we could come up with a National comm's system.  I'll need to study each band to identify potential frequencies or channels.  As a very large group, we could approach repeater owners to see if they would be willing to link their repeater in a chain of repeaters.  If anybody else has some input, please drop a reply.

See this is what I'm talking about!   :)  Thank you so much for your input, and welcome to the forum!  I knew that would be people out there with this kind of information.  This rocks. 

Maybe we should try and take a vote and we, as a forum could try to pick a band.  If our site gets big enough and we have enough people doing this, maybe we could make a standard band for fellow preppers.  That would be cool.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: special-k on September 12, 2011, 02:57:24 PM
The "11 meter free band" is used to describe the "unallocated by the FCC" frequencies above, below, and between the allocated 40 channels for "Citizens Band" or "CB".  I've have been into CB & "11 meter free band" for many years.  The main advantages of using this band would be lower cost and availability to unlicensed individuals.  This would be the way to go for those of us who do not wish to obtain a FCC license for whatever reason (cost, time, REGULATIONS, studying for  tests makes your brain hurt, etc...)  Plus, most HAM equipment is more expensive than CB and 10 meter radio equipment (to be converted to 11 meter). 

It is true that one can communicate on this band at distances of thousands of miles.  However, that is an unpredictable and undependable atmospheric phenomena (especially in this band) called ionospheric propagation (a.k.a. "Skip").  Non skip communication is called "ground wave."  In my experience, ground wave communication max range range is roughly 100-300 miles from base station to base station, with a good set up.  Depending upon many factors such as antenna type (beam, ground plane), antenna height, terrain, elevation, mode(AM or SSB), transmit power, audio quality (radio being properly tuned/aligned for transmit & receive audio clarity), etc...maximum communication distance on this band can be achieved. 

For nationwide SHTF communication to work with this band, a "relay league" would need to be set up, consisting of "big stations" being set up, roughly, every 100-300 miles and any number of smaller stations set up around and in between.  Chances are there will be gaps, so this kind of communication will most likely be regional.  The goal would be to make your region as large as possible and with any luck your region may eventually overlap another region to create a much larger region.

Before buying radio equipment, you should be aware that although vacuum tube technology may be EMP resistant (nuclear blast),  it is extremely inefficient on power consumption when compared to solid state technology.  You do not need an energy hog during SHTF !!!

Also, I put ZERO faith in repeaters for a long term SHTF.  They need power, maintenance and security like any station, BUT, when any one repeater goes downs, everyone depending on it is screwed.  A simplex relay league is compartmental and should have redundancies by nature.

I will now step back and await the smack-talk from licensed HAMS.  [It's an inside joke for all you non-radio people...there's an ongoing feud between non-licensed and licensed (who think their shit don't stink) operators...sort of like AK verses AR.]
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: disposable on September 12, 2011, 03:32:24 PM
i am very interested in this discussion and very willing to participate in this network. I'm trying to get my ham but dont have the money for a ham radio and accessories right now, cb is much cheap for me to get at this time.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: JohnyMac on September 12, 2011, 03:49:25 PM
Well, who would like to own this one? As stated earlier I am in and will buy the necessary equipment- it just will not be new off the shelf. If you folks would like me to set up a discussion on Face Book or ICQ to get this started speak-up on this thread and we will then set a mutually agreed upon date, time and media to discuss the next step.

Thoughts? 
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: WhiskeyJack on September 12, 2011, 06:12:46 PM
Oh this is good. Great info guys. I think we need to run with this one in an unlicenced capasity as im pretty sure folks round here prolly dont want to deal with FCC asshats.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: EJR914 on September 13, 2011, 12:25:23 AM
The "11 meter free band" is used to describe the "unallocated by the FCC" frequencies above, below, and between the allocated 40 channels for "Citizens Band" or "CB".  I've have been into CB & "11 meter free band" for many years.  The main advantages of using this band would be lower cost and availability to unlicensed individuals.  This would be the way to go for those of us who do not wish to obtain a FCC license for whatever reason (cost, time, REGULATIONS, studying for  tests makes your brain hurt, etc...)  Plus, most HAM equipment is more expensive than CB and 10 meter radio equipment (to be converted to 11 meter). 

It is true that one can communicate on this band at distances of thousands of miles.  However, that is an unpredictable and undependable atmospheric phenomena (especially in this band) called ionospheric propagation (a.k.a. "Skip").  Non skip communication is called "ground wave."  In my experience, ground wave communication max range range is roughly 100-300 miles from base station to base station, with a good set up.  Depending upon many factors such as antenna type (beam, ground plane), antenna height, terrain, elevation, mode(AM or SSB), transmit power, audio quality (radio being properly tuned/aligned for transmit & receive audio clarity), etc...maximum communication distance on this band can be achieved. 

For nationwide SHTF communication to work with this band, a "relay league" would need to be set up, consisting of "big stations" being set up, roughly, every 100-300 miles and any number of smaller stations set up around and in between.  Chances are there will be gaps, so this kind of communication will most likely be regional.  The goal would be to make your region as large as possible and with any luck your region may eventually overlap another region to create a much larger region.

Before buying radio equipment, you should be aware that although vacuum tube technology may be EMP resistant (nuclear blast),  it is extremely inefficient on power consumption when compared to solid state technology.  You do not need an energy hog during SHTF !!!

Also, I put ZERO faith in repeaters for a long term SHTF.  They need power, maintenance and security like any station, BUT, when any one repeater goes downs, everyone depending on it is screwed.  A simplex relay league is compartmental and should have redundancies by nature.

I will now step back and await the smack-talk from licensed HAMS.  [It's an inside joke for all you non-radio people...there's an ongoing feud between non-licensed and licensed (who think their shit don't stink) operators...sort of like AK verses AR.]

Great!  Even more good information.  Thank you, again.  I think it safe to say that we want to go unlicensed and that's probably without needing to say it. 

What kind of radios are we looking at?  Any models that anyone suggests?  How about price of getting started?
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: Combollian on September 13, 2011, 01:50:06 AM
I'm also interested into getting into this sort of thing. To be able to maintain global awareness during a disaster/wrol situation I believe is paramount. I'll be monitoring this thread closely.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: Swede229 on September 13, 2011, 05:47:57 PM
i always wanted to get into it but never put the money there.. guess it wouldnt hurt  Wrol happens pretty sure the FFC will have other things to worry about then the regs for ham so it might be a good comm tool
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: disposable on September 14, 2011, 03:59:41 AM
I just did alittle research on the 11 meter free band. interesting and never knew that existed. if we were to set something up like this i think it would behoove us to start what is called a DX group. We would be able to issue call signs to our club members to help keep that band clean and professional. the 11-meter band is not CB, and is "self policing", so etiquette on the air is desirable. if we had something along the lines of a dx group it would be taken more seriously and less backlash from other dx groups (international and national) and operatiors.  Thoughts? Ideas?  special k or 92scalloped you seem to know alot more than myself and rest of us. what do you think?
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: special-k on September 14, 2011, 01:19:13 PM

Great!  Even more good information.  Thank you, again.  I think it safe to say that we want to go unlicensed and that's probably without needing to say it. 

What kind of radios are we looking at?  Any models that anyone suggests?  How about price of getting started?

It is said "The antenna and its set up accounts for 75% of a stations capability."  That being said I will skip ahead to the fun part...RADIOS !!!  I will get back to the drudgery of antenna set up in later posts.

1]  BASE OR MOBILE RADIO(used as a base station)?  ANSWER: MOBILE.   Everyone has seen a mobile radio before, a small rectangular box thing that fits nicely into a small small space such as a vehicle and is powered by a 12 volt DC source.  A base radio is a small suitcase sized thing that is powered by 110 volts AC.  A base radio is actually a mobile radio circuit board mounted inside a box along with a power supply that converts 110VAC to 12VDC , and usually has slightly larger and fancier knobs and meters.  For our purposes, MOBILE RADIOS (used as a base station) ARE THE WAY TO GO.  They are less expensive, smaller, can easily be put in a vehicle if need be, and the main thing is they are designed to run on 12VDC.  In a SHTF situation you want you rig to run straight off of 12VDC.  Just think of the wasted fuel running a generator, all day,  just waiting to receive a message.  Also DC to AC inverters usually draw 1/2 - 1 amp in idle and are less efficient than running your radio rig straight off of DC.

2]  CB or 10 meter HAM (converted to 11 meter)?  ANSWER:  A converted 10 meter radio will, almost always give you more channels to use, plus other features.  But I will tell you a little about both here.
 
Some CB radio models can be modified to have "extra channels."  The more superior of these mods will give the CB radio 40 extra channels above and/or 40 below the regular 40 CB channels, that is accessed by a secret switch that has been installed.  Easy to use and will give you up to 120 total channels.  The more inferior of the mods varies from model to model (PLL chip to PLL chip) and will give the CB radio approximately 25 to 60 extra channel above and/or below the regular 40 CB channels.  These extra channels will be scattered, not in proper sequence, and will have gaps (missing channels).  You will need a chart or frequency counter to find any particular frequency while working one or more switches and the channel knob.  Here are a few common CB models that can be modified:  Cobra 2000 (base), Cobra 148GTL (mobile), Galaxy 949 (mobile), Galaxy 959 (mobile).  There are many others but these are the most common.

IMHO, converted 10 meter radios are the best for our purpose.  The basic conversion mod is relatively simple compared to adding extra channels to a CB.  They have various bells and whistles that CBs don't have and will range from 120-400+ total channels (including the 40 CB channels), depending on model.   They also have better overall circuit quality when compared to CBs. 

Stay away from radios that claim to do more than 50 watts (from the radio itself).  These radios have a built in amplifier and usually suffer from heat related issues.  Also, they can't be matched up with the most common types of amplifiers (low drive) and will have to be used with a more costly, and less common high drive amp if amplification is needed.  The term "HP" (High Power) in a radio's model doesn't necessarily mean it's good or bad, just stay away from anything that claims over 50 watts.

Radio suggestions:  Let's start with Galaxy mobile 10 meter radios.  There good for the money.  Don't pay new price for any Galaxy model above '55...'.  Reason being, the main extra feature you get for that price, SSB (single side band mode),  is an inferior, unstable (for my liking) sideband circuit.  If you want stable SSB, get a radio (with SSB) with microprocessor control, such as Magnum or RCI.  There are other brands but these two are the most common.  RCI tends to produce more lemons but when you got one that works its good.  The Magnum model S-9 is my personal favorite.  I own two of them.  Magnums also have top shelf receive circuitry and far better AM modulation (transmit sound quality) than RCI's.  The Connex brand is good but is nothing more than a Galaxy circuit board with a few extra bells and whistles, therefore Connexes are overpriced and I would never pay new price for one.  Stryker brand is a very good radio based on the Magnum brand.  But, to my knowledge, Stryker doesn't have a model with SSB.  Stryker's are basically like lower S model Magnums (S-3 & S-6).

Don't buy anything yet.  I will be back with more equipment buying tips very soon.  And I will have plenty more posts regarding options concerning the rest of the radio equipment you will need and the setup......as long as you all seem interested.  Can't wait to get this on the air.                     

Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: Ghost on September 14, 2011, 03:58:19 PM
I'm interested. I've always needed more comms knowledge [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: JohnyMac on September 14, 2011, 04:18:29 PM
Special K and the rest interested in this...

I am sitting here with a shit eating grin on my face that runs ear to ear. Can't wait to get started.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: Combollian on September 15, 2011, 12:13:22 AM
G'day, @ Special-K, would this work for those models in Australia or am I looking at having to research further into this myself? My intent is not only being able to communicate within Australia but also with you guys in the states and anyone else around the world. My last question, have you considered doing instructional videos on youtube with the advice on setting up this type of gear?
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: EJR914 on September 15, 2011, 03:26:52 AM
Wow, special-k, quite and amazing read, what incredible knowledge you contain.  I can't wait to hear more.  This rocks.

I really hope we can get something set up.  I can't wait for the first conversation to go on.   :) [URL=http://www.smileyvault.co
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: special-k on September 15, 2011, 11:10:57 AM
G'day, @ Special-K, would this work for those models in Australia or am I looking at having to research further into this myself? My intent is not only being able to communicate within Australia but also with you guys in the states and anyone else around the world. My last question, have you considered doing instructional videos on youtube with the advice on setting up this type of gear?
You will not be able to achieve reliable or predictable communication with the U.S. from Australia on the 11 meter band.  For more predictable and reliable world wide communication you will need to use a much lower frequency.  FYI, lower frequency = higher meter band, it's an inverse relationship.  The lower the frequency the longer the distance from wave peak to wave peak.  Get it?  I have no knowledge of government frequency allocation in Australia or whether or not any "free band(s)" are available down there.  You will need to consult the web and/or an amateur (HAM) operator down there.  I'm pretty sure these lower (worldwide) frequencies will require a license but you still may find a free band to communicate with the locals. 

As for instructional videos on YT, to make a long story short, my Sony Handicam is not compatible with my Mac.  There is a program to make the two work together, but it cost money, and since I spent my time learning about radios instead of computers, I'm not sure exactly how to obtain said program, for free, without getting caught or catching a virus or mal-ware.  So, I do have a YT channel, but with no uploads of my own. 
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: disposable on September 15, 2011, 12:54:40 PM
G'day, @ Special-K, would this work for those models in Australia or am I looking at having to research further into this myself? My intent is not only being able to communicate within Australia but also with you guys in the states and anyone else around the world. My last question, have you considered doing instructional videos on youtube with the advice on setting up this type of gear?
You will not be able to achieve reliable or predictable communication with the U.S. from Australia on the 11 meter band.  For more predictable and reliable world wide communication you will need to use a much lower frequency.  FYI, lower frequency = higher meter band, it's an inverse relationship.  The lower the frequency the longer the distance from wave peak to wave peak.  Get it?  I have no knowledge of government frequency allocation in Australia or whether or not any "free band(s)" are available down there.  You will need to consult the web and/or an amateur (HAM) operator down there.  I'm pretty sure these lower (worldwide) frequencies will require a license but you still may find a free band to communicate with the locals. 

As for instructional videos on YT, to make a long story short, my Sony Handicam is not compatible with my Mac.  There is a program to make the two work together, but it cost money, and since I spent my time learning about radios instead of computers, I'm not sure exactly how to obtain said program, for free, without getting caught or catching a virus or mal-ware.  So, I do have a YT channel, but with no uploads of my own.

What program is it? i can probably find it for you for free, no virus or anything. if you have a dropbox account i can get it to you that way or we can set something else up. pm me or post here and let me know.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: special-k on September 15, 2011, 01:14:18 PM
What program is it? i can probably find it for you for free, no virus or anything. if you have a dropbox account i can get it to you that way or we can set something else up. pm me or post here and let me know.

It's Apple's "MPEG-2 Playback component."
I got my info from this page:
http://markpknowles.com/connecting-a-sony-handycam-to-a-mac-computer/

"Dropbox account?"  I don't know what that is.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: disposable on September 15, 2011, 09:25:44 PM
What program is it? i can probably find it for you for free, no virus or anything. if you have a dropbox account i can get it to you that way or we can set something else up. pm me or post here and let me know.

It's Apple's "MPEG-2 Playback component."
I got my info from this page:
[url]http://markpknowles.com/connecting-a-sony-handycam-to-a-mac-computer/[/url]

"Dropbox account?"  I don't know what that is.


pm sent, dont want to get off topic :)
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: Skippy00004 on December 24, 2011, 03:14:40 AM
I would like to bump the shit out of this topic.  I think it'll be really beneficial and it is definitely doable.

So let's keep this ball rolling.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: Rebelac7 on December 24, 2011, 08:33:41 AM
Here is NE GA there are several of us preppers in my city that use channel 16 on our cbs.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: crudos on December 24, 2011, 09:38:10 AM
Some really good info presented in this thread. At the very least a good all-band shortwave receiver and antenna system should be part of everyone's prep.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: crudos on December 24, 2011, 10:42:12 AM
(http://images.tutorvista.com/content/communication-systems/radio-frequency-bands.gif)
Here's a general chart of radio frequencies. AM radio would be in the Medium Frequency. Shortwave in the HF band, and FM radio in the VHF band. Ideally, you want to get a radio that has as few gaps as possible from band to band and within each band.

Here's some decently good explanations of each of the more practical used radio bands from Wikipedia....

Longwave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longwave)
Medium wave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_wave)
Shortwave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortwave)
VHF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vhf)
UHF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UHF)

In my eyes, it would be most practical to get a radio receiver that has continuous coverage from longwave through shortwave. I have very little experience (other than listening to FM radio stations) with VHF as a usable and practical band as far as buying and using receivers and transmitters. Certain segments of the band are restricted to certain uses, and radios that offer continuous coverage in that band are quite pricey.

Hope some of this helps folks.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: Kentactic on December 24, 2011, 10:51:54 AM
you guys just tell me what to buy and how to use it and im in.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: tominphx on December 28, 2011, 12:15:31 AM
Like this.
Cletus The Slack-Jawed Yokel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn_MLtoyO2E#)


I would be down for ham radio radio though, I have no experience for it, but I know lots of people who do. Did you guys know you can also use it to transmit data? They call it the hinternet.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: Skippy00004 on December 28, 2011, 12:55:17 AM
I think HAM would be the way to go.

I'm not very keen on the subject, but depending on the range of those things, we could bounce radio waves clear across the country.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: JohnyMac on December 28, 2011, 08:45:02 AM
I have been trying to find an "Elmer" (Mentor to a newbee). As mentioned in an earlier post the gunsmith I use is a ham guy. He gave me three names of other hams who live in my area. I have contacted (Left messages) at the three folks homes- No responce as yet. I whined to my wife and she said, "Well John it is the holidays you know." Yeah, yeah, what ever.

There is a Ham meeting next month near me that I am going to try and attend. I am going to my favorite used book store when I get home and see what I can round up too.

Although not at the top of my "to do list" it is in the top five items though. Hopefully I will have more info for you shortly.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: crudos on December 28, 2011, 10:29:49 AM
I have been trying to find an "Elmer" (Mentor to a newbee). As mentioned in an earlier post the gunsmith I use is a ham guy. He gave me three names of other hams who live in my area. I have contacted (Left messages) at the three folks homes- No responce as yet. I whined to my wife and she said, "Well John it is the holidays you know." Yeah, yeah, what ever.

There is a Ham meeting next month near me that I am going to try and attend. I am going to my favorite used book store when I get home and see what I can round up too.

Although not at the top of my "to do list" it is in the top five items though. Hopefully I will have more info for you shortly.

JM, I assume you've tried the ARRL website (http://www.arrl.org/ (http://www.arrl.org/))? You can learn a hella lot with just the publications they put out and their website. Finding a Hamfest or club in your area is a good idea too, as you mentioned.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: JohnyMac on December 28, 2011, 12:51:00 PM
Yup, that's how I found out about the local club meeting in January.

I am sorry to admit this but...well...I want someone to hold my hand and direct me to the correct books and units.

When I was employed I use to buy what ever intrigued me and then learn about the hobby that way. You know the old way to swim by throwing the kid in the deep end of the pool. Since I am unemployed and money is tight I don't want to take that route.

Sorry to have to admit that but it is what it is.  :))
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: Skippy00004 on January 13, 2012, 11:22:32 PM
buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuump.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: Nemo on September 14, 2014, 10:37:16 AM
So what happened with this?  Follow up?  Follow Thru?   

I am interested in one of those Bao Feng thingamajigs.

Worthwhile?

Nemo
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: rah45 on September 14, 2014, 02:30:33 PM
Well, the Bao Feng handheld radios will not communicate very far in the grand scheme of things. It's limited to your immediate AO, maybe your county depending on what antennae you're using. That's what I gather from reading, anyway. For higher than county level, you'd need a dedicated HAM setup. That gets expensive.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: USMC0331 on September 14, 2014, 02:59:45 PM
The 2m handhelds like the B5 will get you outside your AO if you can use repeaters which requires a HAM license and know how.

Taking my tech test for this reason now
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: APX808 on September 14, 2014, 03:23:40 PM
The 2m handhelds like the B5 will get you outside your AO if you can use repeaters which requires a HAM license and know how.

Taking my tech test for this reason now

The problem with repeaters is that everyone will be trying to use them or will monitor them.
And besides that they are composed of very interesting parts, like batteries, solar panels and radios.

I wouldn't count on them working for long after a real SHTF situation.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: Kbop on September 14, 2014, 07:05:31 PM
I wonder if the old crystal radios will make a comeback?  no batteries and can be made from junk laying around.
if you use an actual crystal rather than a varactor diode, it is EMP proof.  the capacitor (condenser for the Eurocentric members) can be made with cardboard, tape and aluminum foil.  with some simple math you can tweak the frequency range and RF gain.  it has two major drawbacks, it only works with AM (amplitude modulation).  so, CB, commercial AM and several 'older' bands would work.  It can't transmit - receive only.
--
the easiest plan I know of is in the Cub Scout Bear manual - it is one of the projects.  http://bizarrelabs.com/crystal.htm (http://bizarrelabs.com/crystal.htm) - this is the one from my childhood.
here is a fun one - http://www.midnightscience.com/_pdffiles/Oatmeal%20box%20radio.pdf (http://www.midnightscience.com/_pdffiles/Oatmeal%20box%20radio.pdf)
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: USMC0331 on September 14, 2014, 07:11:28 PM
APX,
Could you expand on this?  I know nothing of HAM, but won't all forms of comm on the HAM bandwidth fail under the same circumstances?  I thought there were a lot of repeaters setup on solar? 

TEOTWAWKI, I can see it not working, but for up to 1year without power, would there not be a few that survive if they make it through a CME/EMP?

What's the alternative?

My personal use is to comm with my buddy that is on the other side of the hill and we have a 3 repeaters between us that will allow that if I have a HAM license to use them.  That's why we finally jumped at the chance to get the license (I found out you can use a POB instead of physical) when the local club posted a 6 week class for free last week.

One solution I've seen is to use a GMRS repeater of your own as GurrilaComm did. 
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: JohnyMac on September 14, 2014, 07:14:18 PM
As a side note: I started a phone/text tree awhile back. There was little interest so I dropped it. It is low tech and can help out a bunch during the beginning of a threat.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: APX808 on September 14, 2014, 08:48:39 PM
APX,
Could you expand on this?  I know nothing of HAM, but won't all forms of comm on the HAM bandwidth fail under the same circumstances?  I thought there were a lot of repeaters setup on solar? 

TEOTWAWKI, I can see it not working, but for up to 1year without power, would there not be a few that survive if they make it through a CME/EMP?

What's the alternative?

My personal use is to comm with my buddy that is on the other side of the hill and we have a 3 repeaters between us that will allow that if I have a HAM license to use them.  That's why we finally jumped at the chance to get the license (I found out you can use a POB instead of physical) when the local club posted a 6 week class for free last week.

One solution I've seen is to use a GMRS repeater of your own as GurrilaComm did.


Sorry, after re reading my comment I can see I didn't explained myself well.

Repeaters may continue working for years by themselves unless something hits them like an EMP or a tornado or whatever.
The problem I see for repeaters in a SHTF scenario is that they have a lot of interesting components like batteries, solar panels and radios and looters will raid them very soon.

The workaround is to have hidden repeaters whose location/operating frequency/access codes are not known to the public or participating in a HAM network to relay your messages.

For people interested in SHTF HAM communications I strongly suggest you to visit www.amrron.com (http://www.amrron.com), get their manual and participate in their network now that you can to start learning.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: USMC0331 on September 14, 2014, 09:29:18 PM
I'm heading over to read now... are there "pirate" repeaters being readied for an "event" by this group?  Is the plan to put up mobile repeaters that are not FCC approved after an event or are they working and testing an infrastructure for such now?

Wouldn't it be easier to protect the existing hardware from looters, or am I missing the point here?
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: APX808 on September 14, 2014, 09:46:02 PM
I'm heading over to read now... are there "pirate" repeaters being readied for an "event" by this group?  Is the plan to put up mobile repeaters that are not FCC approved after an event or are they working and testing an infrastructure for such now?

Wouldn't it be easier to protect the existing hardware from looters, or am I missing the point here?

I cannot speak for that group, I just got their manual and seen they are doing a great work organizing a HAM network and helping newbies with easy to follow tutorials.
Probably they have a lot of ideas they can't implement/speak openly because of FCC regulations.

Don't forget repeaters usually are deployed on top of hills/mountains to use them to jump over them.
I dunno it would be easy to protect repeaters as that would require to have an armed guard deployed 24/7 on a mountain top, most of those guys probably will feel more comfortable defending their homes than a few batteries and solar panels.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: USMC0331 on September 14, 2014, 09:54:56 PM
Yeah, their about page pretty much says they are organizing a "pass it along" network using low power setups.  At least that's what I got out of it.  I'm sure HAM guys have a plan to put up mobile setups when the time comes but like you said, the first rule of HAM club is "there is not HAM club!" :)

Listening to the broadcasts now, looks like a great resource.  Thanks for pointing out.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: Shadow on July 28, 2015, 10:51:38 AM
Just a suggestion, before you think that you will be able to free band on amateur radio frequencies, thinking that the FCC would be too busy to enforce any rules, think again.

Amateur radio has not been governed for a long time by the FCC.
The FCC helps out with the most severe problems, K1MAN etc.
The day to day workings of amateur radio is taken care of by hams - mostly by hams called O&O's.
The job of the official observer is to monitor the bands and ensure that everyone using the bands is operating according to the Part 97 - which is the rule book written by the ARRL and Enforced by the FCC.

Think of amateur radio like a Interstate Highway.
Think of amateur radio frequencies like having a commercial drivers license.
Those that has the license can operate the big rig vehicles, while those that just has a regular operating permit can only operate automobiles and light pick up trucks.

Could you operate a 18 wheeler without any sort of knowledge of how the truck works, how to operate it, how to drive on the road and how to back the vehicle up when you get to where you are going?  The answer is NO!  You might get away with it for a couple of minutes or hours, but eventually the truck will run out of fuel or need maintenance or you will run off the road or into someone else and it will end at the very least with you getting caught.

If you have a force of almost 700k licensed amateurs in the USA and probably another 1 million throughout the world, how long could you operate illegally without getting caught?

The Technician Class license really doesn't give you much, and it really doesn't take much to get, but at least there is a effort put forth to at least try to pass a 35 question, multiple guess test, in which you have to get 70% right!  Big deal!

To do what you propose, you would need to operate on either 40 or 75 meters and you would need at least a General Class License.  That would require passing two - 35 question multiple guess tests...

The reason why most amateur radio retailers refuses to help non hams is because it would be illegal for them to knowingly sell a radio to you if they thought that you were going to use it for illegal purposes.  Modifying it to operate on 11 meters, or use on HF -licensed amateur frequencies would be considered operating it illegally.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: Shadow on July 28, 2015, 10:59:56 AM
G'day, @ Special-K, would this work for those models in Australia or am I looking at having to research further into this myself? My intent is not only being able to communicate within Australia but also with you guys in the states and anyone else around the world. My last question, have you considered doing instructional videos on youtube with the advice on setting up this type of gear?
You will not be able to achieve reliable or predictable communication with the U.S. from Australia on the 11 meter band.  For more predictable and reliable world wide communication you will need to use a much lower frequency.  FYI, lower frequency = higher meter band, it's an inverse relationship.  The lower the frequency the longer the distance from wave peak to wave peak.  Get it?  I have no knowledge of government frequency allocation in Australia or whether or not any "free band(s)" are available down there.  You will need to consult the web and/or an amateur (HAM) operator down there.  I'm pretty sure these lower (worldwide) frequencies will require a license but you still may find a free band to communicate with the locals. 

As for instructional videos on YT, to make a long story short, my Sony Handicam is not compatible with my Mac.  There is a program to make the two work together, but it cost money, and since I spent my time learning about radios instead of computers, I'm not sure exactly how to obtain said program, for free, without getting caught or catching a virus or mal-ware.  So, I do have a YT channel, but with no uploads of my own.

It has been my experience that all signals reduce at the square of the distance away, and that all reliable communications is line of sight.
If you want anything other than line of sight, you have to have some type of atmospheric conditions that allows you to communicate further than line of sight.

In all my years of being a shortwave listener and a ham, about the highest frequency I have ever heard Australia or New Zealand is on 17 meters - 18 Mhz...

Most all of what I have experienced working DX has been on 10 or 12 meters!

Places like England and France and Italy is usually just about 3000 miles from my QTH.
Not much different than trying to talk to California.

When you try to talk to your Antipode - exact opposite place on the earth, 12,000+ mile paths are very difficult to do, even on an occasional basis.

If as the scientists have predicted and we go into a solar minimum the likes of which has not been seen since the 1400's, it may be 400 years before we see band openings like we had in the 1950's, 60's, 70's and 80's...
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: Nemo on July 28, 2015, 04:39:03 PM
I really need to learn something about this stuff.  Because all I can say about anything in this thread is Rock On Dude.

Nemo
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: JohnyMac on July 29, 2015, 06:27:07 PM
Many years ago, most HAM radio shops and clubs offered classes to help student get one or all of the available tickets. Now with the internet, Sat phones and the basic cell phone there appears less and less interest in HAM.

I have contacted groups like, ARRL seeking local classes to be promised info and for nothing ever to appear.

Any thoughts folks?
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: Shadow on July 29, 2015, 08:10:15 PM
Well Johnny, this is your lucky day.

Here is some advice.

Buy the ARRL or the Gordon West Technician and General Class License Manual.

Read both books, study all the material in the back of the book.
There are online resources when you get to this point that will give you the questions and just the right answers.  I gave away all of my cheat sheets years ago...

When you get to the point of where you think you know all of the material, then you can advance to the next stage, which is to go online and take some of the practice exams.
I must warn you, the practice exams are a lot easier than the ones that the ARRL has.
When you get to the point where you can consistently get 80% or more right on every exam, you are probably ready to take the license exam.

There are VEC - Volunteer Examiner Coordinators and VE's - Volunteer Examiners that gives the exams on regular intervals.
The ARRL maintains a web site of active clubs that administers their exams - with exam dates and locations.
There is a number of other VEC's such as W5YI and LARC....

If you can find a LARC exam in your area, it would benefit you to go there, since they give all examinations - FREE.  The other VEC's charges somewhere in the neighborhood of $16.00!

Any questions you don't understand, feel free to ask - offline and I would be more than glad to explain them to you.
Title: Re: Communication with board members in WROL
Post by: Shadow on July 29, 2015, 08:17:37 PM
Some VEC's offers - Ham In A Day Classes.
Basically you pay a fee, buy the book, study on your own, go to an all day class, where they ham cram the information you need to know to pass the exam and then they give you the exam for a fee.

If you fail, then you have to pay your $15.00 - $16.00 again to retake the exams.

Most VEC's will allow you to retake it twice in one day!

You don't actually learn anything by passing the exam in a ham in a day class, because everything you learn goes into your temporary memory and is usually forgotten in a couple of days.
What you do learn is the basic rules - how to operate a transceiver properly and how to identify and how to hook up the power to your transceiver.  Basic A B C's of amateur radio...

The General Class Exam is much harder....

If you pass the Tech, you can take the General the same day for FREE, which is one good reason to study both before you take your exam.

We can get into power supplies, transceivers, coax, antennas another time, after you get the license.

It would probably benefit you to find a programmable scanner and put up a temporary outside antenna and program the local amateur radio frequencies into your scanner.
Most clubs has a net once a week, where you can find out information like when the next VE test session is, and where it will be located.  When their next club meeting and breakfast is and where it is located.  You can look up the call signs of the amateurs you hear via the internet.
It will give you a rudimentary understanding of how amateur radio works and how people talks on 2 meters...