Unchained Preppers
Communications => Comm Discussion => Topic started by: Erick on July 24, 2019, 04:27:36 PM
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Thanks!
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What would you like to know? Harris makes a decent portable radio with encryption capabilities, and Motorola has their APX line, with encryption available as an add-on. What frequencies were you planning on using the radios? Some encryption is better than others.
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Here is something to read about this subject to educate the group before we get started on this subject. http://www.tacticalrepeater.com/radio-encryption/ (http://www.tacticalrepeater.com/radio-encryption/)
The best encryption when TXing on a radio is using a Brevity Code (https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Brevity_codes).
NC Scout facilitates a great class on this subject called RTO. Patriotman and many others here at UP, have taken this class along with the Adv. RTO class.
A agreed upon code words and phrases are developed before each mission. Each mission has different code words and phrases.
Here is an example of a SALUTE report/exchange with a TOC (Size, Activity, Location, Uniform, Time, Equipment)
"Tango Tango.. Bingo Bingo"
"This is Tango... go ahead Bingo"
"Line one"..."Hog, Eagle -Break" (2, enemy)
"Line two"..."Dancing with wolves - Break" (Enemy patrol)
"Line three..."GD/BD - Break" (Grid BB/30)
"Line four...Chair, table - Break" (Russian Camo)
"Line five...TG/XX - Break" (1200 hrs)
"Line Six...Cake, spoon, cup - Break" (AK, RPG, Night vision)
"How copy Tango?"
"Good. Tango clear"
That is a 30-second burst of information from the patrol to the TOC. Some times the TOC will say, "repeat line X." as the transmission was garbled. The patrol would reread that line and say again, "how copy?"
Typically a directional UHF or VHF antenna would be used which was aimed towards the TOC. Once the transmission was done, the patrol would move at least one kilometer away from the TXing location.
This description is simplistic and to really get the drift you need to go to NC Scouts class to learn it. Then practice, practice, practice.
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Hytera or kenwood with DES.
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What would you like to know? Harris makes a decent portable radio with encryption capabilities, and Motorola has their APX line, with encryption available as an add-on. What frequencies were you planning on using the radios? Some encryption is better than others.
Something thats affordable enough to buy 3,4 or even 5 for the group.
That encryptis from each unit.
Easy to use.
Encryption does not need to be extremely high end.. if its gets broken by OPFOR eventually I dont care I just want to deny real time intel to any hypothetical enemy
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I second the BREVMAT. Also, commo windows.
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Loved the BREVMAT idea, here is a nice article about it http://quietsurvivalist.com/the-brevity-matrix/ (http://quietsurvivalist.com/the-brevity-matrix/)
Also I wouldn't trust on commercial encryption hardware, specially if you plan on hiding from gov, and for encryption to work you need to talk with other devices that are compatible with the encryption.
A key factor in comm security is that they don't know you're there, long comms can be triangulated and your presence in the area revealed, if the OPFOR catches you they will be able to know you're the one who were transmitting in code.
My suggestion would be, regular radios using short comms, for instance with BREVMAT and using directional antennas with the minimal required transmission power.
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Something thats affordable enough to buy 3,4 or even 5 for the group.
That encryptis from each unit.
Easy to use.
Encryption does not need to be extremely high end.. if its gets broken by OPFOR eventually I dont care I just want to deny real time intel to any hypothetical enemy
Most radios that do encryption well are not affordable. Think 1,000 dollars or more. This is average. Yes you can buy cheaper radios or used radios cheaper.
Easy to use is relative. law enforcement and some military guys still forget to use encryption when need be.
Yep brevity matrix as others have stated is best as no one will no the codes except for your people. be sure to rotate the codes occasionally as well so it would be more confusing for those listening to figure out. One time pads is another good option.
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CHEAP and encrypted don't go well together. Just find some Handi-talkies that have a SCRAMBLER function on them. The opposing side most likely won't have radios with reverse scramble audio features and then all will be right with the world.
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Or just purchase any one of the amateur VHF/UHF radios with digital modes, i.e., DMR, DSTAR, or Yaesu Fusion. The typical scanner listener isn't going to be able to realize what's being transmitted in digital mode, unless they have a similar radio. Sometimes there's something good when there's no set standard.
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As several have said, brevity codes, tight and varying comms windows, directional antennas are key..
I'd also consider using fldigi with yagis and such.
you can also obtain a crypto set or go old school and use a book cipher, dictionaries make good ones..
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Thanks for the input fellas. yes at 1000 a pop is beyond what I would want to pay to equip a group
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CHEAP and encrypted don't go well together. Just find some Handi-talkies that have a SCRAMBLER function on them. The opposing side most likely won't have radios with reverse scramble audio features and then all will be right with the world.
Can you link me with some good examples commercially available?
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I will be doing some attention paying to that info also.
Nemo
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CHEAP and encrypted don't go well together. Just find some Handi-talkies that have a SCRAMBLER function on them. The opposing side most likely won't have radios with reverse scramble audio features and then all will be right with the world.
Can you link me with some good examples commercially available?
I suggest you go to AMAZON and look at all the Chinese stuff they offer. Some of them will have Scramble functions. I see it in the menus of most of the Chinese mobile rigs and those are pretty cheap.
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https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C5N1S14/?coliid=I3MIT07PHHPUUC&colid=20EMGRGZQNX99&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C5N1S14/?coliid=I3MIT07PHHPUUC&colid=20EMGRGZQNX99&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it)
75 dollars gets you cheap encryption
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https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C5N1S14/?coliid=I3MIT07PHHPUUC&colid=20EMGRGZQNX99&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C5N1S14/?coliid=I3MIT07PHHPUUC&colid=20EMGRGZQNX99&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it)
75 dollars gets you cheap encryption
Any chance this radio is FCC approved?
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https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C5N1S14/?coliid=I3MIT07PHHPUUC&colid=20EMGRGZQNX99&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C5N1S14/?coliid=I3MIT07PHHPUUC&colid=20EMGRGZQNX99&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it)
75 dollars gets you cheap encryption
Any chance this radio is FCC approved?
I searched the FCC database, and it doesn't appear to be compliant. I also checked in the Retivis' RT87 manual, and it's not noted there either. Scrambling/encryption isn't permitted on amateur frequencies, so it wouldn't be legally permitted on the ham bands. It looks like an interesting radio, though users note that the manual sucks.
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Hmmmmmm……. I looked at that radio by way of the link and it appears to be about as good as it gets as far as price and encryption. To stay legal, I'd not use the encryption unless you were in a World Without Rule Of Law situation (ie. SHTF). Don't let the words, "Type Accepted" concern you. Type Accepted is the FCC's control over SALES of radios, not USE of radios. The Rules control the use. A Ham can build a radio from scratch and it will not be a Type Accepted radio and they can use it as long as it meets the operating rules requirements.
Now, for some advice: Using Encryption will mask the message but it won't mask direction finders. As soon as the carrier comes up, BAM!!! The direction finder computer can pinpoint the source in less than one second. I wouldn't bother with encryption.
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to add to what Pkveazey said - the encryption looks like voice inversion.
it will discourage casual eaves dropping. a typical ham could fix that in a flash with a typical base station.
encryption needs $ in today's market - the more bits the better. :) just like a wireless router.
if you are looking for an out of the box solution it would work in a chaotic environment - too many signals flying too fast for easy parsing.
as discussed below - low power and OTP - might work for you.
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I highly doubt its FCC compliant. Its a cheap Chinese radio and most aren't. The ability to do "encryption" on ham bands would disqualify it from being FCC compliant right there.
If you want legal encryption buy a Motorola and an encryption license and use it on business frequencies. so a thousand dollar radio with 400-800 dollars for the encryption board and programming. and the 1,000 dollars for a business license frequency.
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Recon and Kbop are right on the money. If you are determined to go encrypted, spend the big bucks and license it. If you don't want the world listening in or direction finders to pinpoint you, then run as low power as possible and still be able to communicate. You may want to consider running on the 440 Mhz band because 440 Mhz sucks when it comes to distance. Start off running on 1 watt and if that's not enough then go to 3 watts. If that's not enough to get to the other party then try 1 watt on 2 meters. If that doesn't do it, then go to 5 watts on two meters. If you fire up 65 watts on a base station antenna on two meters, you better be prepared for someone 20 miles out to pick up the signal.
I suggest that you operate in the clear and use confusing messages. My method is reverse meanings. If I tell you to meet me at the South end of Jones' Bridge at 9AM. It would mean to meet me at the North end of Jones' bridge at 9PM. Anyone who thinks they are going to be waiting for you are going to be at the wrong end at the wrong time.
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Sending any encrypted comms is against FCC rules. That includes using a brevity type coding via voice, digital or CW. With that written, if the SHTF I wouldn't worry about the FCC trying RDF you. \"/
On the other hand, if you were to send digital brevity messages using lets say Fldigi, using a yagi antenna and the lowest power setting to get out there; although illegal, nobody would catch ya'. If you did this, I would also use a pirated out of the USofA call sign like one from Cuba, Mexico, Canada to name a few. ;)
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FHSS (Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum). Look into it as an alternative to encryption and/or scrambling. Obviously not legal on ham bands.
P.S. Don't waste money on the affordable, but undependable "TriSquare" brand hand helds. They're notorious for loosing sync.
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Sending any encrypted comms is against FCC rules ON HAM BANDS Perfectly legal on business bands I worked for Motorola for many years and we would sell businesses encrypted radios all the time.
That includes using a brevity type coding via voice, digital or CWBrevity codes are completely legal as long as they are publicly posted ARES as well as many clubs use brevity codes to save time on the repeater so we can transfer information faster. ARES uses it for hospital nets, and local weather spotter emergencies our local brevity codes are on our websites as well as printed and handed out at club meetings.. With that written, if the SHTF I wouldn't worry about the FCC trying RDF you. \"/
On the other hand, if you were to send digital brevity messages using lets say Fldigi, using a yagi antenna and the lowest power setting to get out there; although illegal, nobody would catch ya'. If you did this, I would also use a pirated out of the USofA call sign like one from Cuba, Mexico, Canada to name a few. ;)
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Sending any encrypted comms is against FCC rules. That includes using a brevity type coding via voice, digital or CW. With that written, if the SHTF I wouldn't worry about the FCC trying RDF you. \"/
On the other hand, if you were to send digital brevity messages using lets say Fldigi, using a yagi antenna and the lowest power setting to get out there; although illegal, nobody would catch ya'. If you did this, I would also use a pirated out of the USofA call sign like one from Cuba, Mexico, Canada to name a few. ;)
How would they even know it was a brevity code and not just jibberish?
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you get one ahole listening to your brevity code and he hears you give out your call sign. Which you should do every 10 mins legally and now hes crying to the FCC that he cant understand you and you are talking in code LOL.
With AmRRON and ARES we post our brevity codes online on our websites so its public for anyone to see. If anyone were to break into our conversation on the air we would explain that we are using brevity codes due to an emergency or training and they are publicly available on our website at what ever location we posted them on.
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:sarcasm:
use Morse code to transmit Hollerith code in Chinese?
post the code base in several different web sites that aren't linked.
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use Morse code to send Swahili - if anyone complains, scream 'cultural bias'.
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have even more fun and send Morse in SolReSol.
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i think the point is to be somewhat private without going overboard or breaking the law.
you need to make it harder to break your code than the timeliness allows.
if the idea is constant security with constant conversations - use a commercial license - run it though a latop vocoder of your choice into your radio and transmit scrambled digital. break the simplex chain - one side of the conversation is via the method mentioned above and the replies sent via email or text in a different language.
if the idea is a go code - use plain language - 'time to pack for our vacation' = get ready to bug out, or the inlaws are coming over.
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my personal favorite i plucked out of a spy novel - transmit voice on a common carrier, like GMRS FM - and send the interesting part in the subaudible tones - there are more than 255 of them (enough to send in most letter based languages) So, talk about the weather while typing the actual conversation into your laptop for xmit as subaudible.
:popcorn: