Unchained Preppers

Communications => Comm Discussion => Topic started by: APX808 on April 20, 2014, 09:04:21 AM

Title: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: APX808 on April 20, 2014, 09:04:21 AM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-89rjbu8C8gk/U1Pj9oRmtRI/AAAAAAAAA_g/vK7KQb7tpIY/s1600/bc-comms_jm.jpg)

This reflects my personal opinion as someone outside Bundy's ranch wanting to know
what was going on and just receiving reports like "This is a mess, no one knows shit,
the feds didn't shot yet".

I believe Bundy's Ranch event demonstrated a big flaw in Militia's SOP and is that they
failed to create an official information source until a week after it started.

An official reporting channel is key absolutely, specially when the opponent is the gov.
Venezuela is a clear example, the gov and media report nothing is going on, but people
using social media like Twitter report the abuse and violence they are suffering.

If shots were fired and the militia guys in there were reduced to turtle food, the gov could
start talking about how the domestic terrorist attacked and they had no other option but
to repel the attack, and manipulate how the history is presented to the public.

Every unconventional force first has to obtain populace support to win, otherwise they will
fail like Guevara in Congo and Bolivia. Part of getting populace support comes from showing
them the flip side of the coin of what mass media feeds them.

A lot of people love to bash Occupy movement, but even if you don't fully agree with Occupy
movement methodologies or ideology, there is always something to learn, specially for a country
like the US, where you like it or not you don't have much experience manifesting against the
government.

Occupy movement guys as soon as they took a place set up free Wi-Fi networks for people to
be able to communicate and report anything that was happening, that is awesome, because
the first thing the gov does is to shut down cell phone networks.

Also in Spain they created something called the "wifineta" that is a conjunction of the words
Wi-Fi and truck in Spanish, that truck has the equipment to provide Wi-Fi and 3G for the people
around it.

Also we need to keep in mind the COMSEC, if there is a centralized information outlet, it
could define what should be public knowledge and what not, and then instruct the protestors
about the information release guidelines.

Check this videos of the Occupy Wi-Fi providing tents.

Valencia.guifi.net en acampada Valencia 15M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOU-NH6QVog#)

A Director for the Free Network Foundation Gives Free WiFI, Advice. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71RgrxRcVuA#ws)
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: crudos on April 20, 2014, 01:03:31 PM
Good stuff APX, you make some very valid points and concerns for moving forward from the Bundy Ranch event.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Kentactic on April 20, 2014, 05:03:44 PM
Yep, definitely room for improvement. The problem in today's world is that the guys who are willing to stand up and literally risk their lives in dome cases, aren't really the smart tech guys. The Occupy movement is a crowd FULL of tech geeks. They would die if their Iphone stopped working. They certainly have the media part covered.  Unfortunately they'll never get anything done due to the lack of will to put themselves in physical harms way(getting pepper sprayed so you can tweet about it doesn't count). Kinda makes covering their movement pointless.

If things got serious I think good would prevail regardless of the lack of media coverage. If it got crazy the government would down all electronic avenues of communication anyways. The official site for updates would be down etc a WiFi hotspot in a war zone isnt going to happen.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: APX808 on April 20, 2014, 05:19:41 PM
The governments of Syria, Egypt, Venezuela or Iran were unable to stop people from posting pictures and details of what was going on even when they resorted to extreme measures like shutting down completely Internet and they had the services of American companies, like Blue Coat.

And it's not only Wi-Fi I'm talking about, you can use digital modes over radio to transmit images or text.

There is a lot of people putting effort in helping people prepare in not such cool stuff like communications, like Sam Culper at guerrillamerica.com (http://www.guerrillamerica.com/), Sparks at Signal Corps (http://sparks31.wordpress.com/), AMRRON (http://www.amrron.com/) or me with the COMSEC lessons.

People can find excuses to postpone their training or start researching and looking for ways to improve for the next time.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Kentactic on April 20, 2014, 05:38:09 PM
The governments of Syria, Egypt, Venezuela or Iran were unable to stop people from posting pictures and details of what was going on even when they resorted to extreme measures like shutting down completely Internet and they had the services of American companies, like Blue Coat.

And it's not only Wi-Fi I'm talking about, you can use digital modes over radio to transmit images or text.

There is a lot of people putting effort in helping people prepare in not such cool stuff like communications, like Sam Culper at guerrillamerica.com ([url]http://www.guerrillamerica.com/[/url]), Sparks at Signal Corps ([url]http://sparks31.wordpress.com/[/url]), AMRRON ([url]http://www.amrron.com/[/url]) or me with the COMSEC lessons.

People can find excuses to postpone their training or start researching and looking for ways to improve for the next time.


I hope you dont think im saying that knowing these things isn't important. Im not really sure what im saying. Comms is the most vital and the most fragile thing in a "revolution".

I just think our government can easily kill all electronic forms of communication if it is beneficial to them. At bundy militia meetings often times everyone was asked to leave their phones at their tents etc. If they are capable of listening to our conversation through an OFF cellphone they certainly can halt any radio transmitted data.

Dont take US government funded revolutions as good examples of the limits of their abilities to shutdown comms. If they want it to stop they CAN stop it.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Kentactic on April 20, 2014, 05:47:41 PM
"Intentional communications jamming is usually aimed at radio signals to disrupt control of a battle. A transmitter, tuned to the same frequency as the opponents' receiving equipment and with the same type of modulation, can, with enough power, override any signal at the receiver. Digital wireless jamming for signals such as Bluetooth and WiFi is possible with very low power.

The most common types of this form of signal jamming are random noise, random pulse, stepped tones, warbler, random keyed modulated CW, tone, rotary, pulse, spark, recorded sounds, gulls, and sweep-through. These can be divided into two groups obvious and subtle."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_jamming
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: APX808 on April 20, 2014, 05:58:27 PM
Let's worry about having a network for them to jam, and then about jamming.

If you have a centralized information outlet, it could collect media, route it via runners and make it public using the Auxiliary force.
The comm plan should include tools for the people to generate media and share it, a standard reporting format, contingency plans etc.

Fighting in condition of inferiority is the name of the game, the government will always have more powerful tools but not the flexibility of an unconventional force.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: crudos on April 20, 2014, 08:09:24 PM
Yep, definitely room for improvement. The problem in today's world is that the guys who are willing to stand up and literally risk their lives in dome cases, aren't really the smart tech guys. The Occupy movement is a crowd FULL of tech geeks. They would die if their Iphone stopped working. They certainly have the media part covered.  Unfortunately they'll never get anything done due to the lack of will to put themselves in physical harms way(getting pepper sprayed so you can tweet about it doesn't count). Kinda makes covering their movement pointless.

If things got serious I think good would prevail regardless of the lack of media coverage. If it got crazy the government would down all electronic avenues of communication anyways. The official site for updates would be down etc a WiFi hotspot in a war zone isnt going to happen.
What you mean facing up against cops in full riot gear doesn't count? I know it's popular to poo-poo Occupy, but they clearly had their shit together in a lot of the big city actions during their heyday. Much more so than the current patriot movement (or whatever we are calling this) could ever hope to do. Some people would be wise to not try and fail to re-invent the wheel.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Kentactic on April 20, 2014, 09:54:19 PM
Yep, definitely room for improvement. The problem in today's world is that the guys who are willing to stand up and literally risk their lives in dome cases, aren't really the smart tech guys. The Occupy movement is a crowd FULL of tech geeks. They would die if their Iphone stopped working. They certainly have the media part covered.  Unfortunately they'll never get anything done due to the lack of will to put themselves in physical harms way(getting pepper sprayed so you can tweet about it doesn't count). Kinda makes covering their movement pointless.

If things got serious I think good would prevail regardless of the lack of media coverage. If it got crazy the government would down all electronic avenues of communication anyways. The official site for updates would be down etc a WiFi hotspot in a war zone isnt going to happen.
What you mean facing up against cops in full riot gear doesn't count? I know it's popular to poo-poo Occupy, but they clearly had their shit together in a lot of the big city actions during their heyday. Much more so than the current patriot movement (or whatever we are calling this) could ever hope to do. Some people would be wise to not try and fail to re-invent the wheel.

What specific changes did they affect with their actions?
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Kentactic on April 20, 2014, 09:56:24 PM
Let's worry about having a network for them to jam, and then about jamming.

If you have a centralized information outlet, it could collect media, route it via runners and make it public using the Auxiliary force.
The comm plan should include tools for the people to generate media and share it, a standard reporting format, contingency plans etc.

Fighting in condition of inferiority is the name of the game, the government will always have more powerful tools but not the flexibility of an unconventional force.

So first build a house and then make sure its foundation is solid?

Talking about the capabilities of the opposing force is the first step. Then talk about how to build around it.


Physical information runners are a great first brainstorming idea. Get outside the blackout perimeter and then broadcast.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: JohnyMac on April 21, 2014, 07:43:44 AM
 :fuckYeah: a APX! All great comments. Thank you.

The Bundy Ranch Drama, was a great learning forum for both sides. I suspect that the Fed's there have already revised SOP's for this type of Drama while the Pro Bundy folks walked away and patted themselves on the back.

Listen, if you don't build a house on a strong foundation it will collapse in the first earthquake. Lets look at each Drama/Event as building a new house.

I look at communications as the foundation of the Drama because it is three fold.

1) You need the populous to understand and in hopes support the Drama. Even if the populous doesn't support the Drama at least they
    will understand what is happening. Remember, "There is no such thing as bad publicity except your own obituary." (Brendan
    Behan),
2) You need to communicate with the folks involved in the Drama, and
3) You need to give the opposition erroneous or misleading information.

Think about it...If you were to loose one of the legs of this bar stool I call "Communication"; the drinker sitting on it at the bar, will topple over.

I wrote awhile back on SP (StraightPrep) that I attended a OWS (Occupy Wall Street) training event. I went to learn not to support - Boy did I learn things.

Some of the things I learned were:
I)   They have three ring binders in print, complete with pictures and diagrams on how to organize a protest,
II)  They have many binders that outline different types of protests/Drama's,
III) We role-played at the training seminar. Yes the facilitators at the training seminar had a "Train the Trainer" binder, and
IV) The foundation of all of the training at the seminar was communication.

In hindsight, I should of lifted one of the binders  ;)

In past lives, I have written several Procedure & Policy manual (s) and would love to be part of putting together a prototype of a Patriot Binder to help the commanders of future Drama's.

Again APX, thanks for posting your thoughts!  :cheers:

   
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: thatGuy on April 21, 2014, 11:55:30 AM
John, you should find the group that put the training on and ask them if they could provide some resources...

APX, fantastic brother. You're on the ball as always.

Ken, COMMs, sanitation and general organization is the foundation of your Op, without those your fucked..
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Kentactic on April 21, 2014, 03:00:24 PM
Lol.... alrighty then.....
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Kentactic on April 21, 2014, 03:02:04 PM
Why the heck did you just parrot me back to myself TG?

Is someone messing with my posts? They look fine on my end. Ive stated the importance of comms a million times.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Grudgie on April 21, 2014, 06:00:05 PM
I think he is referring to the house foundation analogy. He's saying that actually having comms is the foundation in the analogy.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: thatGuy on April 21, 2014, 09:08:30 PM
Damn Grudgie, did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night? 

That is exactly what I meant.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Kentactic on April 21, 2014, 10:46:02 PM
Hmmm... ok so ill say it one more time with our house analogy. Comms absolutely is the foundation to any operations. If they are weak then so are the operations. Logically first we should get the foundation right, long before we build a house on it. If we slap down a wifi hotspot and and ham repeater and then frame a house on it and then the foundation is crumbled on day one because we didn't research how to build a reliable foundation, then were fucked.

If fucking smoke signals is the most reliable foundation ill use fucking smoke signals. Ill crawl a mile in the middle of the night with a roll of wire for morris code on my back if thats deemed the best option. But im not doing any of that before I know its going to hold up. I sure as hell am not taking the occupy hippies experiences as proven methods in a totally different scenario as good to go comms plans.

First Google how to pour concrete, then start pouring concrete. Dont start pouring concrete and then say "ah shit its not right, hurry and google how to do this".

That is EXACTLY what went on at bunkerville. Dudes bought radios and showed up with no clue how to use them. They wanted to learn on the fly. It was a disaster.

Dont be this guy:

http://youtu.be/WTi7v77XZYs
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: APX808 on April 22, 2014, 05:10:04 AM
Yeahh don't use radios because they can be jammed, that's why all the military vehicles these days include carrier pigeons and exhaust pipes pointing upwards to do smoke signals easily  :trolling:

Besides Ken, stop focusing on war zones, there was no war zone at Bundy's ranch, that was just a protest.

Seriously man, let's do one thing show us a proposal of a way to communicate a group of protestors and a group of people defending them using your alternative ways, until now you just disregarded all the suggested and already used by other ways because "the US is too strong and always will find a way to fuck up your plan".

Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: JohnyMac on April 22, 2014, 08:14:00 AM
I feel a pull at my heart to jump in here and just say the following:

Ken I am totally stoked that you went to the Bundy Drama! I am proud that you are a member of UP!! You are one stand-up guy and consider you a friend. I don't call many people friends especially someone I have only talked on the phone with or via emails and forum posts.

The reason why we are throwing around scenarios is because of you. You Ken, got off your butt and were part of a protest in the desert. What is being "brain stormed" here, is how to make things better for you and other folks who follow your lead.

Please do not think we are criticizing your efforts.

Thank you.
   
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: rah45 on April 22, 2014, 08:22:06 AM
I feel a pull at my heart to jump in here and just say the following:

Ken I am totally stoked that you went to the Bundy Drama! I am proud that you are a member of UP!! You are one stand-up guy and consider you a friend. I don't call many people friends especially someone I have only talked on the phone with or via emails and forum posts.

The reason why we are throwing around scenarios is because of you. You Ken, got off your butt and were part of a protest in the desert. What is being "brain stormed" here, is how to make things better for you and other folks who follow your lead.

Please do not think we are criticizing your efforts.

Thank you.
 

I second this. I've made some posts in other areas regarding this situation, too. I'm not ridiculing you or anything you did, Ken. You did something really great, and put yourself on the line. I respect that.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Kentactic on April 22, 2014, 08:35:00 AM
Im not taking anything you guys are saying as ridiculing me personally. 

If were looking to communicate in a simple protest then FRS radios will be fine. Teach everyone to be short, sweet and to the point and go to it. If theres no 4G coverage in the area then setup a wifi hotspot.  Thats my opinion. Its worth what you paid for it.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: rah45 on April 22, 2014, 08:41:08 AM
Im not taking anything you guys are saying as ridiculing me personally. 

If were looking to communicate in a simple protest then FRS radios will be fine. Teach everyone to be short, sweet and to the point and go to it. If theres no 4G coverage in the area then setup a wifi hotspot.  Thats my opinion. Its worth what you paid for it.

I think it's a good opinion.  :thumbsUp:

I also think that a basic comms course, a one or two day affair like what JMac experienced with Occupy, is necessary for patriots. There needs to be an informal organization that offers a couple of courses a year in each state that teach others about efficient comms using the types of hardware that regular people can actually afford. Methods need to be taught...people can learn their own hardware themselves - there are tons of resources via the internet, and through that, via in-person.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Kentactic on April 22, 2014, 09:05:33 PM
I saw this on Facebook and had to share...

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/23/ynyvagen.jpg)
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: JohnyMac on April 23, 2014, 07:51:07 AM
Like it Ken...I like it!

"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far." West African Homely.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: DMCakhunter on April 23, 2014, 09:49:02 AM
An Iridium sat phone is another option. Also a Delorme unit that you pair with your cell phone to send texts via Iridium. I won't say un-jammable, but very unlikely.
The original  motorola text communicators for Iridium were way ahead of their time. Too bad they are no longer available.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Well-Prepared Witch on April 23, 2014, 10:59:26 AM
Ken, that picture is worth 1,000 words.  Seriously, though, I think Occupy DID do it right for communications, at least at first.  You can't anticipate everything an enemy will do, but we aren't preppers for nothing.  I think both the idea of getting basic wifi/4G/smoke signals moving is important, as well as learning some tricks to keep up our sleeves should those be jammed later.  But if you don't know how to set up a simple mobile wireless router, how are you going to be able to use the fancier stuff to subvert jamming or blocking?  Baby steps.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: rah45 on April 23, 2014, 11:20:59 AM
An Iridium sat phone is another option.

I googled it, and you had me drooling, but for the $1,000+ buying mark, there are a lot of other things I could get. The comms device I recently purchased to fill in this particular gap is the common Baefong UV5R (or whatever the model number is). Managed to get it, shipped, for $15 with the cable. $50-$100 seems to be what most people could afford, especially since you want to have more than one comms device for your family, ideally.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: DMCakhunter on April 23, 2014, 11:41:58 AM
Here is the Delorme unit. Works with your phone. GPS included, a cheaper alternative, and much better at texting than the 9555 phone. I have both of these and really don't use the phone anymore.
http://www.inreachdelorme.com/ (http://www.inreachdelorme.com/)

Here is the newest toy from Iridium. I will likely replace the above units for this one.
http://www.iridium.com/iridiumgo.aspx (http://www.iridium.com/iridiumgo.aspx)
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: APX808 on April 23, 2014, 11:44:46 AM
Guys sat phones are extremely expensive and work using radio waves so they can be jammed as easily as any other radio.
You can consider them as an alternative, but they are going to be useful just as a point to point connection as there are never going to be much of them.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: special-k on April 23, 2014, 12:19:13 PM
Just felt like posting these random screenshots in this topic.   :-X

Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Kentactic on April 23, 2014, 01:06:56 PM
Im tellin you guys... smoke signals... lol
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: SelenaBreman on May 19, 2014, 01:32:41 AM
Cell phone jammer is an electronic device that blocks the transmission of signals between the cell phone and its nearby base station. By using the same frequency as the cell phones, the jammer gsm (http://www.jammerall.com/categories/Cell-Phone-Jammers/?o=22) creates strong interference to the communication between the caller and the receiver. It is efficient in blocking the transmission of signals from the phone networks, including UMTS, 3G, CDMA, GSM and PHS.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: crudos on May 19, 2014, 10:15:22 AM
Welcome Selana!

Speaking of cell phone jamming...

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/a-florida-resident-drove-around-with-a-cellphone-jammer-84369099229.html (https://www.yahoo.com/tech/a-florida-resident-drove-around-with-a-cellphone-jammer-84369099229.html)
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Kbop on May 26, 2014, 02:08:57 PM
Awesome discussion!

it seems to me that without good PR/Press/Propaganda/Public Policy (pick your own P) the American Revolution wouldn't have gotten very far - in the Colonies or abroad.  I'm surprised information control isn't a larger facet of the smaller political groups.  Posting a rant on You-Tube or in a blog will not move your cause forward nearly  as well as someone actually pushing the info out into the 'info sphere'.  If you don't, your message will be co-opted by people who have other agendas - or worse, never heard at all.   This was certainly a problem at the Bundy Ranch.  Of course you can have lots of PR and nothing behind it and become a laughing stock.  That's why its good to report rather than predict. 
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: CleoBevacqua on June 11, 2014, 11:52:35 PM
In your mind what is a gps jamming device (http://www.jammerfromchina.com/categories/GPS_Jammers/) and what can it do to help you? Only when you are in the situation that the GPS jammer is need you will understand how important and useful such kind of device is. Gaining more knowledge of the device? Just start and then you will have access to the best GPS jammer.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: thatGuy on June 12, 2014, 12:25:46 AM
I have advocated against GPS units and there use for years, get a topo map and a good compass, learn to use them and I promise you that you won't look back.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: EJR914 on August 21, 2016, 02:26:25 PM

Occupy movement guys as soon as they took a place set up free Wi-Fi networks for people to
be able to communicate and report anything that was happening, that is awesome, because
the first thing the gov does is to shut down cell phone networks.

Also in Spain they created something called the "wifineta" that is a conjunction of the words
Wi-Fi and truck in Spanish, that truck has the equipment to provide Wi-Fi and 3G for the people
around it.

Also we need to keep in mind the COMSEC, if there is a centralized information outlet, it
could define what should be public knowledge and what not, and then instruct the protestors
about the information release guidelines.

Check this videos of the Occupy Wi-Fi providing tents.

Amazing Grade A, A1 post, as always APX.  With that said, I know nothing about any of this, but how about the government pulling the plug on Wi-Fi, I'm fairly sure Wi-Fi can be jammed as well, correct?  Not just Wi-Fi cut, but the internet connection in general as well, right?  Even a hard-wire? 

Just questioning and rolling this stuff around in my head.

Thank you for your posts so much, APX, they are simply the bee's knees!
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Kbop on August 21, 2016, 02:41:30 PM
about WiFi - you can jam any radio signal - a loose sparkplug wire will jam some signals :)  it is amazing how much trouble cellular providers spend with the 'can you hear me now' type testing to find dead spots and interference. 

--
about mobile cell/WiFi setups - they have been used in the US of A for events since the 1990's at least - they're called COWs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_on_wheels (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_on_wheels)

Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: APX808 on August 21, 2016, 03:12:01 PM

Occupy movement guys as soon as they took a place set up free Wi-Fi networks for people to
be able to communicate and report anything that was happening, that is awesome, because
the first thing the gov does is to shut down cell phone networks.

Also in Spain they created something called the "wifineta" that is a conjunction of the words
Wi-Fi and truck in Spanish, that truck has the equipment to provide Wi-Fi and 3G for the people
around it.

Also we need to keep in mind the COMSEC, if there is a centralized information outlet, it
could define what should be public knowledge and what not, and then instruct the protestors
about the information release guidelines.

Check this videos of the Occupy Wi-Fi providing tents.

Amazing Grade A, A1 post, as always APX.  With that said, I know nothing about any of this, but how about the government pulling the plug on Wi-Fi, I'm fairly sure Wi-Fi can be jammed as well, correct?  Not just Wi-Fi cut, but the internet connection in general as well, right?  Even a hard-wire? 

Just questioning and rolling this stuff around in my head.

Thank you for your posts so much, APX, they are simply the bee's knees!

Glad you liked the stuff man.
As KBop mentioned you can jam wifi easily, although I think the gov would try to penetrate it and sniff your activities.

The gov can fuck you up any way they want, the key point here is have alternatives and use it politically in your favor.
As soon as they jam your wifi/cell networks you need to report it as "the gov not wanting the people know what is going on in the area in preparation for an attack just like many dictatorships around the world did, for instance Venezuela and Iran", if reporters are present you wont even need to do it as they'll do it themselves.


Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Nemo on August 21, 2016, 03:31:15 PM
What does a cell phone GPS jammer do?

Does it jam your phone signal so you cannot make calls?

Do you need to turn it off so you can receive a call?

Assuming it just prevents GPS reading, how does it prevent 2 or 3 towers from receiving the signal and locating a phone from that info.

Can the jammed 10 yard circle be tracked?

Nemo
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: APX808 on August 21, 2016, 05:04:00 PM
As far as I know those devices jam both cell and GPS, those are used mostly to avoid your ass getting tracked by a bug in your car, specially useful if you're into highway piracy.

You'll need to completely turn it off for it to connect to a tower and make/receive calls.

As soon as you turn the cell on you can be tracked by tower triangulation, although in non urban areas isn't very precise because towers are too far apart.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: EJR914 on August 21, 2016, 07:00:26 PM
As far as I know those devices jam both cell and GPS, those are used mostly to avoid your ass getting tracked by a bug in your car, specially useful if you're into highway piracy.

You'll need to completely turn it off for it to connect to a tower and make/receive calls.

As soon as you turn the cell on you can be tracked by tower triangulation, although in non urban areas isn't very precise because towers are too far apart.

Yep, found that out when I was using a PI to catch my ex-wife cheating on me back when we were still married.  As soon as she left the big city of Atlanta, and got about 30 mins out, the cell phone signal device on her car would no longer triangulate, and the PI couldn't tell where she had gone and what she was doing.  He traveled about six miles back, and he lost her.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: JohnyMac on August 22, 2016, 06:20:38 AM
GPS is totally controlled by Governments. Currently it is accurate down to 9-10 yards. During a military drama, e.g. invasion of Iran, the accuracy went out to miles. The reason being that everybody has a GPS anymore.

When the government degrades the signal there are beacons that ground troops use in conjunction with the GPS signal to navigate movements.

When MrsMac and I lived on our sailboat, the Coast Guard use to give out warning's about all kinds of navigational warning's on marine channel 22 (157.1000 Mhz). Things like: Buoy changes of location, weather warning's, missing boats/people and accuracy of GPS.

Accuracy of GPS changed often in the Straight of Juan de Fuca based on when submarines where going coming through the Straight on their way to/coming from Kitsap (Bremerton, WA.) sub base. This is why we usually used a buoy hop plan using compass and current drift charts while crossing the Straight to/from Canada rather than GPS.

Like what TG wrote back in 2014, "...get a topo map and a good compass, learn to use them and I promise you that you won't look back."

     
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Kbop on August 22, 2016, 10:49:21 AM
an interesting note on GPS.  There are several constellations going up by several countries.  I wonder if receivers will come out that can receive all of them.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: thatGuy on August 22, 2016, 11:19:18 AM
Sorry about your wife homie.. that's a low blow..

We're talking about all manner of things here...

If we're talking about shutting out cellular phone communication like at Bundy Ranch to prevent OPFOR from ordering a pizza there are a couple of way to go about that, some of them can be implemented by all parties while others are reserved for those with might.

Cell phones are basically high tech radios.. think like the one in your car but with some really need coding and encryption software. The most basic and brutish way of Jamming that signal is going to be to over power it locally with white noise.. Ever heard the lightning though your radio while listening to AM classics? Now imagine if that didn't stop.. Your phone wouldn't be able to get information past the wall of locally produced noise. This trick works for hand held radios too. You would notice a 'No Service' icon on your phone because of it's inability to send and receive pings from the tower telling it that it was connected.

OPFOR can do this too, the tech is available and fairly cheap but the problem is that blue team can triangulate your jammer and send a hellfire right up your ass.

Another tactic that is available to both sides is to force entry at local towers and disable them.. while this seems super straight forward it isn't.. blue team can put a couple of guys on it and simply flip a switch while red team has to smoke check the system which is going to piss off the locals for sure..

Then there is always the possibility that blue team can get a couple of tech heads into that system with or without the operator's permission but lets assume it will be with and log calls, disable individual phone's ability to communicate, selectively jam or even intercept communication. There is a whole host of shit they can and will do with cell commo that makes it a stupidly dangerous means of communication for OPFOR.

How do you work around that? How do you negate the effectiveness as OPFOR?

You don't. 

You use runners and actual person to person communication but even that is suspect with telescopic lenses, lip readers and long range listening devices..
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: JohnyMac on August 22, 2016, 01:28:03 PM
Before I write this, this is ILLEGAL.

Using an amateur radio during a cell phone outage is easy and to send coded any messages is easy too.

Record a message using a book code cypher* on a tape recorder. At a designated time & frequency send your coded message at high speed. Receiving ham operator records the speedup message. Slows the message down to decypher the message using the code book.

I would also suggest sending the message using a directional type antenna like a Moxon or Yagi. With practice you can reflect your transmission against a water tower, steel building, etc too.

The reason to use a tape machine is to speed up transmission which leaves the sender less vulnerable RDF.

* Book Cypher = Two people (group) owes the same book - Title, edition, etc. The book is bought with cash in
   preferred used book store. Amy how the message is a group of numbers. The number of the page, number of
   paragraph, number of sentence in the paragraph and then word. So a tape recorded message would look like...
   22, 2, 3, 5 - 23, 1, 1, 7- 24, 3, 1, 8, etc. Never use the same page more than once and it is best to not use
   sequential pages as I just did.

Again, it is illegal to broadcast an encrypted message via a two way radio.   
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: thatGuy on August 22, 2016, 03:30:15 PM
I wasn't going to go that deep but yes John, yes..
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Kbop on August 23, 2016, 08:57:59 AM

I would also suggest sending the message using a directional type antenna like a Moxon or Yagi. With practice you can reflect your transmission against a water tower, steel building, etc too.



not encouraging any ill informed use of RF tech...
between moxon and yagi - i would suggest yagi, they have a better front to back ratio.
- ground/earth wave is nearly impossible to jam but requires a radio nerd to set up.
in transmission testing - large bodies of water, fences and power lines should be considered too.
for RF nerds in the advanced class; http://www.arrl.org/weak-signal-vhf-dx-meteor-scatter-eme-moonbounce (http://www.arrl.org/weak-signal-vhf-dx-meteor-scatter-eme-moonbounce)
one last suggestion, use RF bands not usually thought of.  Or RF bands the OPFOR can't jam without blowback. like TG mentioned.
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: thatGuy on August 23, 2016, 10:19:14 AM
I went a long way to hide that suggestion Kbop...
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Kbop on August 23, 2016, 10:45:15 AM
sorry man :)
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Nemo on August 23, 2016, 06:30:57 PM
Before I write this, this is ILLEGAL.

Again, it is illegal to broadcast an encrypted message via a two way radio.

Really?  Illegal to broadcast anything encrypted?  Say on CB radio.

Nemo
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: JohnyMac on August 24, 2016, 05:34:09 AM
I can't speak to CB. Over the years CB (11 meter) has become a rather outlaw channel. It use to be that you needed a radio license to use the band however truckers never got one. The FCC at a point just through up their hands and gave up trying to police that band.

Like VHF (144-148 Mhz) and UHF (300-3000 Mhz) CB is really a "line of sight" band. Like any frequency range, you can use a sky wave antenna (Pointing the antenna driver at the sky) method. If there is a good Ionosphere the wave will be reflected back to the ground hundreds of miles away.

Now on the dedicated amateur radio frequency's, 1m, 2m, 6m , etc yes it is illegal to broadcast messages that are encrypted. 97.113 (4) "Music using a phone emission except as specifically provided elsewhere in this section; communications intended to facilitate a criminal act; messages encoded for the purpose of obscuring their meaning, except as otherwise provided herein; obscene or indecent words or language; or false or deceptive messages, signals or identification."     
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: EJR914 on August 25, 2016, 11:23:30 PM
I wasn't going to go that deep but yes John, yes..

That's what you tell all the girls when you deflower them.  haha
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: thatGuy on August 26, 2016, 12:04:09 AM
Deflower?

(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/b5/b590a0dc1de2b4d336873a50de27445e3bb338c7898282c2a11f40051541ccf4.jpg)
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: EJR914 on September 01, 2016, 01:15:30 AM
That's right I forgot you liked them big, loose, and sloppy wet
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: Nemo on September 01, 2016, 08:52:41 AM
Sounds like a good chili or sloppy joe burger.

Nemo
Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: rah45 on September 02, 2016, 06:33:56 AM
TG screwed Hillary, confirmed.

Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
Post by: thatGuy on September 02, 2016, 08:11:42 AM
You boys are way outta line.