Author Topic: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts  (Read 4600 times)

Offline Well-Prepared Witch

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2014, 10:59:26 AM »
Ken, that picture is worth 1,000 words.  Seriously, though, I think Occupy DID do it right for communications, at least at first.  You can't anticipate everything an enemy will do, but we aren't preppers for nothing.  I think both the idea of getting basic wifi/4G/smoke signals moving is important, as well as learning some tricks to keep up our sleeves should those be jammed later.  But if you don't know how to set up a simple mobile wireless router, how are you going to be able to use the fancier stuff to subvert jamming or blocking?  Baby steps.
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Offline rah45

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2014, 11:20:59 AM »
An Iridium sat phone is another option.

I googled it, and you had me drooling, but for the $1,000+ buying mark, there are a lot of other things I could get. The comms device I recently purchased to fill in this particular gap is the common Baefong UV5R (or whatever the model number is). Managed to get it, shipped, for $15 with the cable. $50-$100 seems to be what most people could afford, especially since you want to have more than one comms device for your family, ideally.

Offline DMCakhunter

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2014, 11:41:58 AM »
Here is the Delorme unit. Works with your phone. GPS included, a cheaper alternative, and much better at texting than the 9555 phone. I have both of these and really don't use the phone anymore.
http://www.inreachdelorme.com/

Here is the newest toy from Iridium. I will likely replace the above units for this one.
http://www.iridium.com/iridiumgo.aspx

Offline APX808

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2014, 11:44:46 AM »
Guys sat phones are extremely expensive and work using radio waves so they can be jammed as easily as any other radio.
You can consider them as an alternative, but they are going to be useful just as a point to point connection as there are never going to be much of them.

Offline special-k

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2014, 12:19:13 PM »
Just felt like posting these random screenshots in this topic.   :-X

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Offline Kentactic

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2014, 01:06:56 PM »
Im tellin you guys... smoke signals... lol
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Offline SelenaBreman

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2014, 01:32:41 AM »
Cell phone jammer is an electronic device that blocks the transmission of signals between the cell phone and its nearby base station. By using the same frequency as the cell phones, the jammer gsm creates strong interference to the communication between the caller and the receiver. It is efficient in blocking the transmission of signals from the phone networks, including UMTS, 3G, CDMA, GSM and PHS.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 02:41:44 AM by SelenaBreman »

Offline crudos

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2014, 10:15:22 AM »

Offline Kbop

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2014, 02:08:57 PM »
Awesome discussion!

it seems to me that without good PR/Press/Propaganda/Public Policy (pick your own P) the American Revolution wouldn't have gotten very far - in the Colonies or abroad.  I'm surprised information control isn't a larger facet of the smaller political groups.  Posting a rant on You-Tube or in a blog will not move your cause forward nearly  as well as someone actually pushing the info out into the 'info sphere'.  If you don't, your message will be co-opted by people who have other agendas - or worse, never heard at all.   This was certainly a problem at the Bundy Ranch.  Of course you can have lots of PR and nothing behind it and become a laughing stock.  That's why its good to report rather than predict. 
Murphy was an optimist.

Offline CleoBevacqua

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2014, 11:52:35 PM »
In your mind what is a gps jamming device and what can it do to help you? Only when you are in the situation that the GPS jammer is need you will understand how important and useful such kind of device is. Gaining more knowledge of the device? Just start and then you will have access to the best GPS jammer.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 08:10:27 PM by CleoBevacqua »

Offline thatGuy

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2014, 12:25:46 AM »
I have advocated against GPS units and there use for years, get a topo map and a good compass, learn to use them and I promise you that you won't look back.

Offline EJR914

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2016, 02:26:25 PM »

Occupy movement guys as soon as they took a place set up free Wi-Fi networks for people to
be able to communicate and report anything that was happening, that is awesome, because
the first thing the gov does is to shut down cell phone networks.

Also in Spain they created something called the "wifineta" that is a conjunction of the words
Wi-Fi and truck in Spanish, that truck has the equipment to provide Wi-Fi and 3G for the people
around it.

Also we need to keep in mind the COMSEC, if there is a centralized information outlet, it
could define what should be public knowledge and what not, and then instruct the protestors
about the information release guidelines.

Check this videos of the Occupy Wi-Fi providing tents.

Amazing Grade A, A1 post, as always APX.  With that said, I know nothing about any of this, but how about the government pulling the plug on Wi-Fi, I'm fairly sure Wi-Fi can be jammed as well, correct?  Not just Wi-Fi cut, but the internet connection in general as well, right?  Even a hard-wire? 

Just questioning and rolling this stuff around in my head.

Thank you for your posts so much, APX, they are simply the bee's knees!

Offline Kbop

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2016, 02:41:30 PM »
about WiFi - you can jam any radio signal - a loose sparkplug wire will jam some signals :)  it is amazing how much trouble cellular providers spend with the 'can you hear me now' type testing to find dead spots and interference. 

--
about mobile cell/WiFi setups - they have been used in the US of A for events since the 1990's at least - they're called COWs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_on_wheels

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Offline APX808

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2016, 03:12:01 PM »

Occupy movement guys as soon as they took a place set up free Wi-Fi networks for people to
be able to communicate and report anything that was happening, that is awesome, because
the first thing the gov does is to shut down cell phone networks.

Also in Spain they created something called the "wifineta" that is a conjunction of the words
Wi-Fi and truck in Spanish, that truck has the equipment to provide Wi-Fi and 3G for the people
around it.

Also we need to keep in mind the COMSEC, if there is a centralized information outlet, it
could define what should be public knowledge and what not, and then instruct the protestors
about the information release guidelines.

Check this videos of the Occupy Wi-Fi providing tents.

Amazing Grade A, A1 post, as always APX.  With that said, I know nothing about any of this, but how about the government pulling the plug on Wi-Fi, I'm fairly sure Wi-Fi can be jammed as well, correct?  Not just Wi-Fi cut, but the internet connection in general as well, right?  Even a hard-wire? 

Just questioning and rolling this stuff around in my head.

Thank you for your posts so much, APX, they are simply the bee's knees!

Glad you liked the stuff man.
As KBop mentioned you can jam wifi easily, although I think the gov would try to penetrate it and sniff your activities.

The gov can fuck you up any way they want, the key point here is have alternatives and use it politically in your favor.
As soon as they jam your wifi/cell networks you need to report it as "the gov not wanting the people know what is going on in the area in preparation for an attack just like many dictatorships around the world did, for instance Venezuela and Iran", if reporters are present you wont even need to do it as they'll do it themselves.



Offline Nemo

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2016, 03:31:15 PM »
What does a cell phone GPS jammer do?

Does it jam your phone signal so you cannot make calls?

Do you need to turn it off so you can receive a call?

Assuming it just prevents GPS reading, how does it prevent 2 or 3 towers from receiving the signal and locating a phone from that info.

Can the jammed 10 yard circle be tracked?

Nemo
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Offline APX808

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2016, 05:04:00 PM »
As far as I know those devices jam both cell and GPS, those are used mostly to avoid your ass getting tracked by a bug in your car, specially useful if you're into highway piracy.

You'll need to completely turn it off for it to connect to a tower and make/receive calls.

As soon as you turn the cell on you can be tracked by tower triangulation, although in non urban areas isn't very precise because towers are too far apart.

Offline EJR914

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2016, 07:00:26 PM »
As far as I know those devices jam both cell and GPS, those are used mostly to avoid your ass getting tracked by a bug in your car, specially useful if you're into highway piracy.

You'll need to completely turn it off for it to connect to a tower and make/receive calls.

As soon as you turn the cell on you can be tracked by tower triangulation, although in non urban areas isn't very precise because towers are too far apart.

Yep, found that out when I was using a PI to catch my ex-wife cheating on me back when we were still married.  As soon as she left the big city of Atlanta, and got about 30 mins out, the cell phone signal device on her car would no longer triangulate, and the PI couldn't tell where she had gone and what she was doing.  He traveled about six miles back, and he lost her.

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2016, 06:20:38 AM »
GPS is totally controlled by Governments. Currently it is accurate down to 9-10 yards. During a military drama, e.g. invasion of Iran, the accuracy went out to miles. The reason being that everybody has a GPS anymore.

When the government degrades the signal there are beacons that ground troops use in conjunction with the GPS signal to navigate movements.

When MrsMac and I lived on our sailboat, the Coast Guard use to give out warning's about all kinds of navigational warning's on marine channel 22 (157.1000 Mhz). Things like: Buoy changes of location, weather warning's, missing boats/people and accuracy of GPS.

Accuracy of GPS changed often in the Straight of Juan de Fuca based on when submarines where going coming through the Straight on their way to/coming from Kitsap (Bremerton, WA.) sub base. This is why we usually used a buoy hop plan using compass and current drift charts while crossing the Straight to/from Canada rather than GPS.

Like what TG wrote back in 2014, "...get a topo map and a good compass, learn to use them and I promise you that you won't look back."

     
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Offline Kbop

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2016, 10:49:21 AM »
an interesting note on GPS.  There are several constellations going up by several countries.  I wonder if receivers will come out that can receive all of them.
Murphy was an optimist.

Offline thatGuy

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2016, 11:19:18 AM »
Sorry about your wife homie.. that's a low blow..

We're talking about all manner of things here...

If we're talking about shutting out cellular phone communication like at Bundy Ranch to prevent OPFOR from ordering a pizza there are a couple of way to go about that, some of them can be implemented by all parties while others are reserved for those with might.

Cell phones are basically high tech radios.. think like the one in your car but with some really need coding and encryption software. The most basic and brutish way of Jamming that signal is going to be to over power it locally with white noise.. Ever heard the lightning though your radio while listening to AM classics? Now imagine if that didn't stop.. Your phone wouldn't be able to get information past the wall of locally produced noise. This trick works for hand held radios too. You would notice a 'No Service' icon on your phone because of it's inability to send and receive pings from the tower telling it that it was connected.

OPFOR can do this too, the tech is available and fairly cheap but the problem is that blue team can triangulate your jammer and send a hellfire right up your ass.

Another tactic that is available to both sides is to force entry at local towers and disable them.. while this seems super straight forward it isn't.. blue team can put a couple of guys on it and simply flip a switch while red team has to smoke check the system which is going to piss off the locals for sure..

Then there is always the possibility that blue team can get a couple of tech heads into that system with or without the operator's permission but lets assume it will be with and log calls, disable individual phone's ability to communicate, selectively jam or even intercept communication. There is a whole host of shit they can and will do with cell commo that makes it a stupidly dangerous means of communication for OPFOR.

How do you work around that? How do you negate the effectiveness as OPFOR?

You don't. 

You use runners and actual person to person communication but even that is suspect with telescopic lenses, lip readers and long range listening devices..

Offline JohnyMac

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2016, 01:28:03 PM »
Before I write this, this is ILLEGAL.

Using an amateur radio during a cell phone outage is easy and to send coded any messages is easy too.

Record a message using a book code cypher* on a tape recorder. At a designated time & frequency send your coded message at high speed. Receiving ham operator records the speedup message. Slows the message down to decypher the message using the code book.

I would also suggest sending the message using a directional type antenna like a Moxon or Yagi. With practice you can reflect your transmission against a water tower, steel building, etc too.

The reason to use a tape machine is to speed up transmission which leaves the sender less vulnerable RDF.

* Book Cypher = Two people (group) owes the same book - Title, edition, etc. The book is bought with cash in
   preferred used book store. Amy how the message is a group of numbers. The number of the page, number of
   paragraph, number of sentence in the paragraph and then word. So a tape recorded message would look like...
   22, 2, 3, 5 - 23, 1, 1, 7- 24, 3, 1, 8, etc. Never use the same page more than once and it is best to not use
   sequential pages as I just did.

Again, it is illegal to broadcast an encrypted message via a two way radio.   
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Offline thatGuy

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #46 on: August 22, 2016, 03:30:15 PM »
I wasn't going to go that deep but yes John, yes..

Offline Kbop

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2016, 08:57:59 AM »

I would also suggest sending the message using a directional type antenna like a Moxon or Yagi. With practice you can reflect your transmission against a water tower, steel building, etc too.



not encouraging any ill informed use of RF tech...
between moxon and yagi - i would suggest yagi, they have a better front to back ratio.
- ground/earth wave is nearly impossible to jam but requires a radio nerd to set up.
in transmission testing - large bodies of water, fences and power lines should be considered too.
for RF nerds in the advanced class; http://www.arrl.org/weak-signal-vhf-dx-meteor-scatter-eme-moonbounce
one last suggestion, use RF bands not usually thought of.  Or RF bands the OPFOR can't jam without blowback. like TG mentioned.
Murphy was an optimist.

Offline thatGuy

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2016, 10:19:14 AM »
I went a long way to hide that suggestion Kbop...

Offline Kbop

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Re: Bundy's ranch information flow thoughts
« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2016, 10:45:15 AM »
sorry man :)
Murphy was an optimist.